I didn't read any of that wall of text, but I will respond to say I prefer your old-classic UO style game. I also feel that the EQ/DAoC themepark type game has its place.
New games are too action oriented like you said. No time for socializing, its all about combat and killing shit. I bet its fun for a lot of people, but it is not what I am looking for to fulfill my wishes for an MMO that is a virtual-world simulator like UO was.
good combat doesnt' take away from anything that you posted...
combat is n't for socializing.. that is what guild buildin/resource gathering/crafting/trading is for... it doens't take away from simulating a world...
if you want to simulate a world.. than uo/wow/typical combat is not immersive..because it doesn't simulate any kind of reality.. whether fantasy or otherwise...
I'm not sure who you meant to reply to, but it clearly wasn't me. I never said that 'good combat' takes away from a game. I said that new games are too action oriented for me. Meaning, they focus way too much on flashy combat, and ignore the rest of what makes a world a world. And I would disagree with you that combat is not for socializing. EQ, DAoC, you had nothing to do during downtime BUT socialize and craft friendships. It worked well.
Your last paragraph is simply irrelevant.
no.. it was all a response to everything you said.. just cause you don't agree or don't like it.. that doesn't mean my post is invalidated or irrelevant.
I didn't read any of that wall of text, but I will respond to say I prefer your old-classic UO style game. I also feel that the EQ/DAoC themepark type game has its place.
New games are too action oriented like you said. No time for socializing, its all about combat and killing shit. I bet its fun for a lot of people, but it is not what I am looking for to fulfill my wishes for an MMO that is a virtual-world simulator like UO was.
good combat doesnt' take away from anything that you posted...
combat is n't for socializing.. that is what guild buildin/resource gathering/crafting/trading is for... it doens't take away from simulating a world...
if you want to simulate a world.. than uo/wow/typical combat is not immersive..because it doesn't simulate any kind of reality.. whether fantasy or otherwise...
I'm not sure who you meant to reply to, but it clearly wasn't me. I never said that 'good combat' takes away from a game. I said that new games are too action oriented for me. Meaning, they focus way too much on flashy combat, and ignore the rest of what makes a world a world. And I would disagree with you that combat is not for socializing. EQ, DAoC, you had nothing to do during downtime BUT socialize and craft friendships. It worked well.
Your last paragraph is simply irrelevant.
no.. it was all a response to everything you said.. just cause you don't agree or don't like it.. that doesn't mean my post is invalidated or irrelevant.
Moot point when you fail to actually address anything I said. Peace.
And no I don't want grind. I don't mind working for something I want, but to do quest grinds for level only to have an turn around and grind rep for a mount. Then grind gold for gear. Only to rinse and repeat the process over and over just so that I can reach endgame where I in turn do it all again.
I want something real to work towards. This is not the same as a grind to me.
Housing in UO. You work to find that perfect spot, then you spend time working on decorating your house to represent you in functionality and in style. This one thing gave me something I spent years on.
Pets in UO - You could tame any dragon or nightmare but the goal was to get one with stats you deemed ideal. Finding that perfect pet was work, but I didn't consider it a grind. Now after you found that perfect pet stat wise the goal became that pet with the perfect look and stats. Now even with all of this there was still the need to train your pets.
On top of that there were things like the Zoo collection that had unique rewards that can only come from the turning in pets you've tamed (Or you could donate gold which I don't think should have been an option). Titles, armor, robes, deco for your house, etc. There was a museum and a library collection quest as well.
There are ways to add in long term goals without making every single aspect of the game a mind numbing grind. Grinding for meaningless or minor things is simply not fun.
In the end everyone has different tastes. For those that like "Classic" MMO's they are already out there. I'm grateful that newer MMO's are starting to steer away from what has become the traditional MMO setup. It's grown stagnant and out dated and the low success rate of MMO's that adhere to it shows that.
Tab target systems have just been around way too long now and i guess ive moved on..
For me its the Darkfall style and also the mortal online style combat i enjoy it just brings a lot more to the game than just sitting around and pressing buttons when a timer comes up or whatever like in wow.
I am now sure why GW2 has a seperate section for as its just a tab target game at the end of the day, i really would not call it action combat LOL..
Saying that we all like different things and im not suprised that the votes are spread around a bit..
Tab target systems have just been around way too long now and i guess ive moved on..
For me its the Darkfall style and also the mortal online style combat i enjoy it just brings a lot more to the game than just sitting around and pressing buttons when a timer comes up or whatever like in wow.
I am now sure why GW2 has a seperate section for as its just a tab target game at the end of the day, i really would not call it action combat LOL..
Saying that we all like different things and im not suprised that the votes are spread around a bit..
The benefit of GW2 is that it's a bit of a hybrid allowing more to get into it. Me, my wife and our two kids all play MMO's together. I like action oriented combat as does our daughter. My wife can't really do the action oriented combat and neither can our son. The combat in GW2 is just action oriented enough that it appeals to me and my daughter and just standard enough that it doesn't exclude my wife and son.
And I would pick better examples than DFO and MO lol... combat in DFO is a bit to basic and well MO... lol it's in it's own class of fail. TERA's combat was awful so that isn't a good example either. Vindictus on the other hand has some really good action oriented combat. Age of Chivalry's combat system would be nice to see in an MMO as well.
OP, sorry to say that you have got everything wrong.
Combat is not the reason for newer games beeing so plain and dumb. Lore, socialization, economy, housing, all these factors have nothing to do with combat. Games keep getting dumber becouse people keep buying the dumber games.
Grind is not what gives you a feeling of achievement. Grind gives you a feeling of release ("phew, finally"). What gives you a sense of achievement is difficulty ("hell yeah, I did it"). Grind is only a mechanic introduced to make up for the lack of content. The less content, the more grind.
Al-tab targetting was created becouse our hardware and networks could not handle something else. It was a standard that developers settled for becouse they could not go for what the gamers acually wanted. But that was decades ago, please! Now we have the hardware and networks for better stuff, and it's about time studios start delivering it.
OP, sorry to say that you have got everything wrong.
Combat is not the reason for newer games beeing so plain and dumb. Lore, socialization, economy, housing, all these factors have nothing to do with combat. Games keep getting dumber becouse people keep buying the dumber games.
Grind is not what gives you a feeling of achievement. Grind gives you a feeling of release ("phew, finally"). What gives you a sense of achievement is difficulty ("hell yeah, I did it"). Grind is only a mechanic introduced to make up for the lack of content. The less content, the more grind.
Al-tab targetting was created becouse our hardware and networks could not handle something else. It was a standard that developers settled for becouse they could not go for what the gamers acually wanted. But that was decades ago, please! Now we have the hardware and networks for better stuff, and it's about time studios start delivering it.
Didnt read the original post but this seemed like worth a thumbs up
I didn't read any of that wall of text, but I will respond to say I prefer your old-classic UO style game. I also feel that the EQ/DAoC themepark type game has its place.
New games are too action oriented like you said. No time for socializing, its all about combat and killing shit. I bet its fun for a lot of people, but it is not what I am looking for to fulfill my wishes for an MMO that is a virtual-world simulator like UO was.
good combat doesnt' take away from anything that you posted...
combat is n't for socializing.. that is what guild buildin/resource gathering/crafting/trading is for... it doens't take away from simulating a world...
if you want to simulate a world.. than uo/wow/typical combat is not immersive..because it doesn't simulate any kind of reality.. whether fantasy or otherwise...
I'm not sure who you meant to reply to, but it clearly wasn't me. I never said that 'good combat' takes away from a game. I said that new games are too action oriented for me. Meaning, they focus way too much on flashy combat, and ignore the rest of what makes a world a world. And I would disagree with you that combat is not for socializing. EQ, DAoC, you had nothing to do during downtime BUT socialize and craft friendships. It worked well.
Your last paragraph is simply irrelevant.
no.. it was all a response to everything you said.. just cause you don't agree or don't like it.. that doesn't mean my post is invalidated or irrelevant.
Moot point when you fail to actually address anything I said. Peace.
If it doesn't address the things you said it is because your statements were taken in context with the entire post history.. if you failed to read/even glance at the posts and made a post that was irrelevant to the entire history... its your problem..
Action style is the best for mmorpgs, you never get bored and if you do you can take a break for a week or two and come back in and play for 2-3 months again.
Only a fool embraces all change with no discrimination just to be 'modern' (whatever that means).
The OP has a right to state a preference for a more classic tactical playstyle without being labelled as 'scared'.
I don't believe its any more or less tactical.. its all in the implementation.
Fair enough, but I will just say that the action styled MMORPGs I have personally played have usually tended towards the zergy. I don't really want to get bogged down in a debate over one word though.
The point of my post though was really to say that change isn't necessarily a good thing and the OP has a right to prefer something that just isn't in fashion right now without being dismissed as 'scared'.
Only a fool embraces all change with no discrimination just to be 'modern' (whatever that means).
The OP has a right to state a preference for a more classic tactical playstyle without being labelled as 'scared'.
I don't believe its any more or less tactical.. its all in the implementation.
Fair enough, but I will just say that the action styled MMORPGs I have personally played have usually tended towards the zergy. I don't really want to get bogged down in a debate over one word though.
The point of my post though was really to say that change isn't necessarily a good thing and the OP has a right to prefer something that just isn't in fashion right now without being dismissed as 'scared'.
I understand and agree.. I hate all the negativity.. so i ignored that part.. I just wanted to say that both types are very valid and can be very fun... also that a simple categorical label.. is not very definitive and is very general.
Only a fool embraces all change with no discrimination just to be 'modern' (whatever that means).
The OP has a right to state a preference for a more classic tactical playstyle without being labelled as 'scared'.
The OP certainly has the right to prefer the past .. and i have the SAME right to prefer the current.
No one said you didn't... I don't really know why you capitalised the word 'same'... No one is trying to strip away anyone's 'rights'. Why go down that road?
I can't handle WoW's graphics anymore, but I do still play EQ, EQ2 and DAoC on occasion. As well as a little bit of CoH before it closed and Wizard 101. I also play SWTOR fairly often. Needless to say, I'm a fan of slower paced games with tab targeting and combat that gives you time to use tactics and to recover from mistakes. The whole action thing with no time to react or change your mind or recover from mistakes is not enjoyable to me. I'm also sick of MMOs that focus almost completely on combat and have done away with the virtual world aspect. Non-combat side activities have been watered down to singular crafting.
If Vanguard wasn't such a hardcore game, I'd be playing it just for the diplomacy and exploration aspects. Let alone its great class and skill system and combat that lasts for more than five seconds.
Originally posted by ShakyMo This tab based combat is "tactical" stuff is nonsense.
Wow more tactical than planetside? Rift more tactical than darkfall?
Dont make me laugh
Can't handle the truth, huh? LOL There is a difference between tactical combat and tactical organization. WoW has more of the former while planetside 2 had more of the latter.
I hate having to dodge and roll out of the way of stuff, I much prefer stat progression (dmg / mitigation) that improves survivability.
The more action oriented combat (Tera, GW2 to some extent) is fun for a little while but it definitely gets old.
I play MMO's to relax and enjoy the game world, not to feel like I need to be on my toes for each friggin mob I happen to run into.
And no one says you cannot have stat progression with action combat. No one says you have to be on the toes if you out level the mob.
Just look at games like Borderlands. it is 100% action combat .. but after you out-level an area, you can go in and just walk all over mobs.
Actiony combat has no conflict with progression.
Other than the fact that his statement says he prefers one over the other. The problem is with the action combat itself. I want at least one new MMO that puts stats and slow paced combat to the fore instead of every single one of them going to action style combat and completely screwing our segment of the player base over.
Comments
no.. it was all a response to everything you said.. just cause you don't agree or don't like it.. that doesn't mean my post is invalidated or irrelevant.
Moot point when you fail to actually address anything I said. Peace.
I actually want it all.
Action Oriented Combat - ala GW2
Immerive classic sandbox world - ala UO
And no I don't want grind. I don't mind working for something I want, but to do quest grinds for level only to have an turn around and grind rep for a mount. Then grind gold for gear. Only to rinse and repeat the process over and over just so that I can reach endgame where I in turn do it all again.
I want something real to work towards. This is not the same as a grind to me.
Housing in UO. You work to find that perfect spot, then you spend time working on decorating your house to represent you in functionality and in style. This one thing gave me something I spent years on.
Pets in UO - You could tame any dragon or nightmare but the goal was to get one with stats you deemed ideal. Finding that perfect pet was work, but I didn't consider it a grind. Now after you found that perfect pet stat wise the goal became that pet with the perfect look and stats. Now even with all of this there was still the need to train your pets.
On top of that there were things like the Zoo collection that had unique rewards that can only come from the turning in pets you've tamed (Or you could donate gold which I don't think should have been an option). Titles, armor, robes, deco for your house, etc. There was a museum and a library collection quest as well.
There are ways to add in long term goals without making every single aspect of the game a mind numbing grind. Grinding for meaningless or minor things is simply not fun.
In the end everyone has different tastes. For those that like "Classic" MMO's they are already out there. I'm grateful that newer MMO's are starting to steer away from what has become the traditional MMO setup. It's grown stagnant and out dated and the low success rate of MMO's that adhere to it shows that.
Tab target systems have just been around way too long now and i guess ive moved on..
For me its the Darkfall style and also the mortal online style combat i enjoy it just brings a lot more to the game than just sitting around and pressing buttons when a timer comes up or whatever like in wow.
I am now sure why GW2 has a seperate section for as its just a tab target game at the end of the day, i really would not call it action combat LOL..
Saying that we all like different things and im not suprised that the votes are spread around a bit..
Anyone who voted WoW style should be shot.
Myself I prefer innovation so anything that is good and innovates on old themes that works is what I enjoy the most.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
lol Still an improvement over EQ. Wow those battles looked lame.
The benefit of GW2 is that it's a bit of a hybrid allowing more to get into it. Me, my wife and our two kids all play MMO's together. I like action oriented combat as does our daughter. My wife can't really do the action oriented combat and neither can our son. The combat in GW2 is just action oriented enough that it appeals to me and my daughter and just standard enough that it doesn't exclude my wife and son.
And I would pick better examples than DFO and MO lol... combat in DFO is a bit to basic and well MO... lol it's in it's own class of fail. TERA's combat was awful so that isn't a good example either. Vindictus on the other hand has some really good action oriented combat. Age of Chivalry's combat system would be nice to see in an MMO as well.
OP, sorry to say that you have got everything wrong.
Combat is not the reason for newer games beeing so plain and dumb. Lore, socialization, economy, housing, all these factors have nothing to do with combat. Games keep getting dumber becouse people keep buying the dumber games.
Grind is not what gives you a feeling of achievement. Grind gives you a feeling of release ("phew, finally"). What gives you a sense of achievement is difficulty ("hell yeah, I did it"). Grind is only a mechanic introduced to make up for the lack of content. The less content, the more grind.
Al-tab targetting was created becouse our hardware and networks could not handle something else. It was a standard that developers settled for becouse they could not go for what the gamers acually wanted. But that was decades ago, please! Now we have the hardware and networks for better stuff, and it's about time studios start delivering it.
Didnt read the original post but this seemed like worth a thumbs up
Only a fool embraces all change with no discrimination just to be 'modern' (whatever that means).
The OP has a right to state a preference for a more classic tactical playstyle without being labelled as 'scared'.
If it doesn't address the things you said it is because your statements were taken in context with the entire post history.. if you failed to read/even glance at the posts and made a post that was irrelevant to the entire history... its your problem..
I don't believe its any more or less tactical.. its all in the implementation.
Fair enough, but I will just say that the action styled MMORPGs I have personally played have usually tended towards the zergy. I don't really want to get bogged down in a debate over one word though.
The point of my post though was really to say that change isn't necessarily a good thing and the OP has a right to prefer something that just isn't in fashion right now without being dismissed as 'scared'.
I understand and agree.. I hate all the negativity.. so i ignored that part.. I just wanted to say that both types are very valid and can be very fun... also that a simple categorical label.. is not very definitive and is very general.
True .. but change is a recognition of preferences for many have changed, or previously not realized.
The OP certainly has the right to prefer the past .. and i have the SAME right to prefer the current.
No one said you didn't... I don't really know why you capitalised the word 'same'... No one is trying to strip away anyone's 'rights'. Why go down that road?
Wow more tactical than planetside?
Rift more tactical than darkfall?
Dont make me laugh
I can't handle WoW's graphics anymore, but I do still play EQ, EQ2 and DAoC on occasion. As well as a little bit of CoH before it closed and Wizard 101. I also play SWTOR fairly often. Needless to say, I'm a fan of slower paced games with tab targeting and combat that gives you time to use tactics and to recover from mistakes. The whole action thing with no time to react or change your mind or recover from mistakes is not enjoyable to me. I'm also sick of MMOs that focus almost completely on combat and have done away with the virtual world aspect. Non-combat side activities have been watered down to singular crafting.
If Vanguard wasn't such a hardcore game, I'd be playing it just for the diplomacy and exploration aspects. Let alone its great class and skill system and combat that lasts for more than five seconds.
Can't handle the truth, huh? LOL There is a difference between tactical combat and tactical organization. WoW has more of the former while planetside 2 had more of the latter.
I hate having to dodge and roll out of the way of stuff, I much prefer stat progression (dmg / mitigation) that improves survivability.
The more action oriented combat (Tera, GW2 to some extent) is fun for a little while but it definitely gets old.
I play MMO's to relax and enjoy the game world, not to feel like I need to be on my toes for each friggin mob I happen to run into.
And no one says you cannot have stat progression with action combat. No one says you have to be on the toes if you out level the mob.
Just look at games like Borderlands. it is 100% action combat .. but after you out-level an area, you can go in and just walk all over mobs.
Actiony combat has no conflict with progression.
Other than the fact that his statement says he prefers one over the other. The problem is with the action combat itself. I want at least one new MMO that puts stats and slow paced combat to the fore instead of every single one of them going to action style combat and completely screwing our segment of the player base over.