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How is Guildwars 2 shallow?

13

Comments

  • Gaia_HunterGaia_Hunter BristolPosts: 2,986Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Kuraphimaru

     


    Originally posted by botrytis
    The trick is, since you don't seem to understand it, is to use those skills in the proper order (and I don't mean bashing 1,2,3,4,5, etc). Then there is synergy - use them in the wrong order no synergy. The same goes for GW1, although to a way lesser extent.

     

    What synergy? KD and then auto-attack while I don't take damage? Stun + auto-attack? Weaken and then auto-attack for extra damage? Cripple + burst for movement + auto the enemy? KD with hammer, switch to GS, pop frenzy, 100b the enemy, now run around auto-attacking while your kd/stun comes off the cooldowns?

    All this synergy leads up to is me dealing as much damage while taking as little damage as possible. With GW1 example I was able to KD everything around me in 3 skills leaving me a lot of options as to how to proceed further. However, the point of my initial attack was to KD the enemies around me, not inflict damage on them. That is why GW2 combat is shallow since most combos lead to most damage in least time which with a defensive build it can be achieved by auto-attacking just as well and saving the other skills for situational use whenever they are needed.

    GW1 PvE was about damage.

    You go there with an Invincible dude make a ball of enemies and blast them.

    There is no need for options to deal with dead enemies.

    And even enraging charge+fgs+earth shaker warrior was a damage dealer build - it simply meant someone has maintaining strength of honor in you or someone was oop+dark fury or casting splinter or gdw.

    All PvE games revolve around that - dealing damage while staying alive since the AI (even the smart ones) can be abused.

    Currently playing: GW2
    Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders

  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member Common
    There is synergy in the combat.

    Gw2 uses a city of heroes like state system, 1 player puts on an effect, another player exploits it. Only certain abilities combo. Tsw uses a similar system.
  • Gaia_HunterGaia_Hunter BristolPosts: 2,986Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by ShakyMo
    There is synergy in the combat.

    Gw2 uses a city of heroes like state system, 1 player puts on an effect, another player exploits it. Only certain abilities combo. Tsw uses a similar system.

    There is also the synergy of limited resources.

    Since no one can survive indefinitely or out heal the damage someone (self included) is taking, they need to share their heals cds/endurance bars and hit points.

    Doing that avoids spending half or more of the time in a dungeons running from the graveyard to the current encounter.

    Currently playing: GW2
    Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders

  • grimalgrimal Stamford, CTPosts: 2,889Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by BadSpock
     

     

    I burned myself out on the "fun" of GW2, and found that after the fun was gone there wasn't really anything in the game that I really connected with - nothing to push me to log in and play.

    So to me, GW2 feels shallow in the sense that it is just kind of empty.

    ^^ This right here.  GW2 is fun at the beginning much like a game of Contra is fun.  But I can only play Contra for so long.

    The game is very fun, but I feel it's more aimed at the console crowd.

  • MuntzMuntz Minneapolis, MNPosts: 332Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by killion81
    Originally posted by Volkon
    Originally posted by bcbully
    Originally posted by Volkon
    Originally posted by bcbully

    Like cliff diving into a big ocean of water, then hitting your head on the bottom. 

     

    I'm not diving right?

     No, as usual, you're missing the target.

    Oh so I was diving wrong?  Thanks.

     You missed the ocean.

     

    Yes, you did it wrong.  image

     

    Some people enjoy splashing in puddles.  Other people like water sports in lakes.  Some people want to sail around the world in the ocean.  To each their own.

    However, reality still dictates that a puddle is a puddle, a lake is a lake and an ocean is an ocean, regardless of which you yourself prefer to play in.

    No doubt but a puddle, lake and ocean are measureable things. We can aggree on how to measure them (really I'm not quite sure about this). 

    How do you measure depth in an MMO? I'm confident we can not agree on that. 

  • tollboothtollbooth grants pass, ORPosts: 298Member Common
    I played the game for 2 months and I dont remember a single persons name.  There was almost never a reason to be social in any manner.  Only time you ever had to talk was when looking for a dungeon party which I think was a great move.  However after that dungeons were so gd easy it was just follow the leader mash your face and win.
  • enntenseenntense Soldotna, AKPosts: 15Member
    See if this sounds familiar.  You face the big bad boss mob.  You run in , hit your max damage abilties, dodge a little bit and then suddently get hit for 80% of your health.  You use your big self heal.  That heals you to about 60%.  You run away from the mob and run around out of attack range healing up.  When you are topped off and your big heal is up you run back in and do it again....I've just described every single melee boss combat for the GW2 game.  
  • VolkonVolkon Sterling, VAPosts: 3,788Member
    Originally posted by enntense
    See if this sounds familiar.  You face the big bad boss mob.  You run in , hit your max damage abilties, dodge a little bit and then suddently get hit for 80% of your health.  You use your big self heal.  That heals you to about 60%.  You run away from the mob and run around out of attack range healing up.  When you are topped off and your big heal is up you run back in and do it again....I've just described every single melee boss combat for the GW2 game.  

     Not one that I've ever been involved in, but then again I play mostly a mesmer. So I'll face the big boss mob, usually with a greatsword, and start witt GS4 to get a crippling phantasm out there. I'll follow with GS3 out of habit that I'm trying to break... GS3 used to add vulnerability, now it removes a boon so I need to watch that better... sigh... ANYHOW! This is followed likely with GS2 for more damage and to create another clone. By now the mob is attacking back. If ranged, Feedback pops so he can eat what he thought to feed me. Depending on cooldowns I may use another GS2 for a third clone or I'll dodge to create the third clone, followed by a F2 shatter to add confusion. Dodge again for a quick clone, hit GS4 and GS2 again for additional clones (to 3 again) and now we're getting more situational... do I want (or need) to use Arcane Thievery to swap any (up to 3) conditions I have for up to three of his boons? Maybe Null Field to cleanse anything I or allies have on us... or maybe I see allies off a distance and cast Null Field at range to benefit them. If another ranged shot is coming I may use my heal then not because I need a heal, but because I chose the one that reflects projectiles while I'm healing. Maybe the boss is winding up a big attack... shatter 3 interrupts that. If not, Shatter 1 for more damage or Shatter 2 for more stacks of confusion. Things are usually well off anything resembling a script now. I may need shatter 4 to avoid damage, I'll need to keep creating and popping clones, maybe GS5 to create distance, more utilities, even a Mass Invis (elite of choice) to buy me a breather if things get too crazy.

    Oderint, dum metuant.
    image

  • Bad.dogBad.dog Belleville, ONPosts: 1,091Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by tollbooth
    I played the game for 2 months and I dont remember a single persons name.  There was almost never a reason to be social in any manner.  Only time you ever had to talk was when looking for a dungeon party which I think was a great move.  However after that dungeons were so gd easy it was just follow the leader mash your face and win.

    Funny you should say that ... I played DAoC for three years and I can't remember a single person or even the guild or server I was on ...I played WOW close to 5 years and I can't even remember the name of my own toon. However, I've seen a thousand dungeons and  easily  as many raids and besides following a leader, mashing buttons (flocking like a starving seagull for loot drops) and the occasional grunt called socializing, all raids and dungeon crawls have been cut from the same cloth in my mind . If I want to socialize I run with friends and guild mates, in pugs and open world encounters I’m quite happy doing my job, being quiet and respectful to other and moving on when the event is over

  • FoomerangFoomerang Portland, ORPosts: 5,595Member Uncommon

    I think one can drown in a glass of water if they are small enough. We percieve depth based on personal experience.

  • PaRoXiTiCPaRoXiTiC Denison, TXPosts: 583Member Uncommon

    This game is far from Shallow and I only read through 3 pages, but nobody had a good answer for why they think its shallow.

    Guess its hard to give an answer when the true answer is that it isn't.

  • Bad.dogBad.dog Belleville, ONPosts: 1,091Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by enntense
    See if this sounds familiar.  You face the big bad boss mob.  You run in , hit your max damage abilties, dodge a little bit and then suddently get hit for 80% of your health.  You use your big self heal.  That heals you to about 60%.  You run away from the mob and run around out of attack range healing up.  When you are topped off and your big heal is up you run back in and do it again....I've just described every single melee boss combat for the GW2 game.  

    As compared to standing in one spot mashing a number of keys ...depending on someone else to cast the miracle heal and keep an eye on the aggro meter and dps graph? Nah been there for 12 years, dinosaurs had their hay day it's time to move on or become extinct

  • Gaia_HunterGaia_Hunter BristolPosts: 2,986Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by enntense
    See if this sounds familiar.  You face the big bad boss mob.  You run in , hit your max damage abilties, dodge a little bit and then suddently get hit for 80% of your health.  You use your big self heal.  That heals you to about 60%.  You run away from the mob and run around out of attack range healing up.  When you are topped off and your big heal is up you run back in and do it again....I've just described every single melee boss combat for the GW2 game.  

    You forgot that the mob is at 100% health again.

    Currently playing: GW2
    Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders

  • NaughtyPNaughtyP Edmonton, ABPosts: 793Member Uncommon
    I'm not going to call it shallow, because it isn't, but it isn't all that deep either.

    Enter a whole new realm of challenge and adventure.

  • tollboothtollbooth grants pass, ORPosts: 298Member Common
    Originally posted by Bad.dog
    Originally posted by tollbooth
    I played the game for 2 months and I dont remember a single persons name.  There was almost never a reason to be social in any manner.  Only time you ever had to talk was when looking for a dungeon party which I think was a great move.  However after that dungeons were so gd easy it was just follow the leader mash your face and win.

    Funny you should say that ... I played DAoC for three years and I can't remember a single person or even the guild or server I was on ...I played WOW close to 5 years and I can't even remember the name of my own toon. However, I've seen a thousand dungeons and  easily  as many raids and besides following a leader, mashing buttons (flocking like a starving seagull for loot drops) and the occasional grunt called socializing, all raids and dungeon crawls have been cut from the same cloth in my mind . If I want to socialize I run with friends and guild mates, in pugs and open world encounters I’m quite happy doing my job, being quiet and respectful to other and moving on when the event is over

    I played FFXI for 6 years and i could probably list about 500 people that were on the same server as me. 

  • KyleranKyleran Paradise City, FLPosts: 20,901Member Rare
    Originally posted by PaRoXiTiC

    This game is far from Shallow and I only read through 3 pages, but nobody had a good answer for why they think its shallow.

    Guess its hard to give an answer when the true answer is that it isn't.

    l think one area that some players feel its shallow is in terms of character progression in terms of power, but that was by intentional design so you really can't call it a fault of the game.
     

    It seems like a pretty well rounded MMO (well, for a theme park) image and a good value for those who are enjoying it.

    Probably isn't a MMORPG that most people can play long term and steady, but then again, almost no MMO released in the past 7 years qualifies in that regard. 

    I'm not even sure that player  longevity or retention is even a reasonable measure for MMO's anymore

     

    "Winning" at EVE Online since 2006! 

    In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon


  • shawn01shawn01 nashua, NHPosts: 154Member Uncommon

           GW2 was worth 60 dollars. It is somewhat shallow though. One major reason for me is the game world. It's not good. The low level zone Queensland is really nice, but after that the zones are just kinda thrown together. I dont get the feeling that im in a massive multi player world, but in a series of instances, that feel less like places and more like ugly constructs. Kinda like they gave a little kid control of zone design, and he just liked laying cliffs and other anoying obstacles all about.

     

    The crafting is ok, but it doesnt feel like much of an accomplishment to hit 400, takes two hours or so. Not only that but you can barely make any profit making and selling armor.

     

    Mobs are evenly spaced all over the entire game map, which is annoying. There is never time to look around or really explore because its constant combat.

    The pvp i find to be terrible. The pvp zones are small, and crowded with fortifications with little open space. Giant red names make  strategy pretty much useless. Very hard to sneak up on someone when your giant red name can be seen through solid objects and from clip range

     

    It's just a really bland generic game. Worth 60 dollars, but nothing special. I've just changed my expectations, I no longer expect more than i would from a console game.

  • KingJigglyKingJiggly Simpsonville, SCPosts: 777Member
    The story and crafting is the only thing that is shallow about this game.
  • eye_meye_m Notta Chance, ABPosts: 3,294Member Uncommon
    GW2 doesn't give you a bunch of gimp ways to play your character. Some people like to google the latest FotM build and show off their latest cookie cutter to all their friends, and GW2 doesn't do that so the game is shallow. 

    All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.

    I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.

    I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.

    I don't hate much, but I hate Apple© with a passion. If Steve Jobs was alive, I would punch him in the face.

  • ThorkuneThorkune Eastern, KYPosts: 1,896Member Uncommon

    Here are my thoughts on the game. Don't get me wrong, I think it is one of the best games currently on the market right now, but I just can't get into it for some reason. I will never give up hope on it though...

     

    1. It doesn't feel like an MMO to me

    2. Crafting is too shallow and not worth leveling

    3. All classes feel too similar in combat

    4. The heart quests get monotonous

    5. I personally like the trinity style groups

    6. I feel that the "fight to survive" is lame. It was cool the first few times, but gets old when you know you have no chance of surviving

    7. Can't go in the water without drawing "fish" aggro. I don't mind underwater combat, but not all of the time

  • KhinRuniteKhinRunite ManilaPosts: 879Member
    Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter
    Originally posted by enntense
    See if this sounds familiar.  You face the big bad boss mob.  You run in , hit your max damage abilties, dodge a little bit and then suddently get hit for 80% of your health.  You use your big self heal.  That heals you to about 60%.  You run away from the mob and run around out of attack range healing up.  When you are topped off and your big heal is up you run back in and do it again....I've just described every single melee boss combat for the GW2 game.  

    You forgot that the mob is at 100% health again.

    Have at least a partner to fight the big bad boss mob with. Ah wait...who am I kidding? GW2 is soloable and gives no reason to group up at all.

    OP: GW2 is fast-paced. It's very evident that you can jump in and out of most aspects of the game (PvP, PvE, exploring, puzzles). Unless you're aiming for something specific, you don't really have to spend a lot of time playing the game in order to gain at least something (EXP, gold, karma, achievement). Because of this, some people find it shallow, especially when they are so used to investing large amounts of time and effort before obtaining any semblance of reward.

  • observerobserver Houston, TXPosts: 3,149Member Uncommon
    I'm guessing that when people say it's shallow, it's because they have seen it all before.  They are just burned out from the MMO genre and expect something new.
  • RecoreRecore Posts: 5,451Member Uncommon

    Everything about the game just felt shallow to me. Combat got boring fast and progression also got boring fast because afther about level 10 each level afther that feels exactly the same. You just dont get the sense that you are getting stronger and more powerful. Also the world just felt like zones or maps  with the whole 100% completion thing and going around trying to get to the dot on the map while uncovering the fog of war just made it worse. No soical aspect at all really kills it because thats what mmos are all about.

    This game tried to be World Of Warcraft 2012 and failed hard at it. Sure it did not follow the exact same formala but it tried to make a simple easy mmo that anybody could pick up and play and thats just not going to work anymore. Its a double edged sword when it comes to mmos. It will be fun at first and everybody will be talking about it but afther couple months when you have seen everything people will leave and be ready for whats next. MMOs have to built for long term gameplay or they just wont work. We need real worlds where the people are the content because thats what real mmos are.

    Raptr Gamercard
  • KhinRuniteKhinRunite ManilaPosts: 879Member
    Originally posted by Mannish

    Everything about the game just felt shallow to me. Combat got boring fast and progression also got boring fast because afther about level 10 each level afther that feels exactly the same. You just dont get the sense that you are getting stronger and more powerful. Also the world just felt like zones or maps  with the whole 100% completion thing and going around trying to get to the dot on the map while uncovering the fog of war just made it worse. No soical aspect at all really kills it because thats what mmos are all about.

    This game tried to be World Of Warcraft 2012 and failed hard at it. Sure it did not follow the exact same formala but it tried to make a simple easy mmo that anybody could pick up and play and thats just not going to work anymore. Its a double edged sword when it comes to mmos. It will be fun at first and everybody will be talking about it but afther couple months when you have seen everything people will leave and be ready for whats next. MMOs have to built for long term gameplay or they just wont work. We need real worlds where the people are the content because thats what real mmos are.

    I'm curious as to where you're coming from using the phrases "failed hard", and "not going to work anymore". Is there a different MMO out there besides WoW that's more active than GW2?

  • observerobserver Houston, TXPosts: 3,149Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Mannish

    Everything about the game just felt shallow to me. Combat got boring fast and progression also got boring fast because afther about level 10 each level afther that feels exactly the same. You just dont get the sense that you are getting stronger and more powerful. Also the world just felt like zones or maps  with the whole 100% completion thing and going around trying to get to the dot on the map while uncovering the fog of war just made it worse. No soical aspect at all really kills it because thats what mmos are all about.

    This game tried to be World Of Warcraft 2012 and failed hard at it. Sure it did not follow the exact same formala but it tried to make a simple easy mmo that anybody could pick up and play and thats just not going to work anymore. Its a double edged sword when it comes to mmos. It will be fun at first and everybody will be talking about it but afther couple months when you have seen everything people will leave and be ready for whats next. MMOs have to built for long term gameplay or they just wont work. We need real worlds where the people are the content because thats what real mmos are.

    You just described every recent MMO that's been released.  What are you expecting from this genre?

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