Pay2Win starts at the beginning.... Want to play the game? Put down $40 (or lose).
It then moves on to fees... Want to play the second month? Put down $15 (or lose).
Lastly it moves on to microtransactions.... want x,y,z? Put down $5-500 (or lose).
Every game that is monitized is Pay2Win. Those who pay win, those who dont lose. Whenever there is a direct connection between money, and something you receive, this will exist. The only real option is to have 'donations' where they are not tied to anything receivable.
Pay to win was the most greedy and unbalanced concept to ever be introduced to videogames in human history. All games that have it should be banned from use.
I hear alot of you yelling "burn F2P, kill it, dont support it" and many other things like that.......the fact is most of the gamers (*think) that F2P is actually cheaper then paying 15 bucks a month sub and keep pumping money in those F2P games....they make more money then subbed games do.
* yes they THINK its cheaper....my own expirience here is GW2, GW2 is the first F2P game i even touched and it has me spending about 20 to 30 bucks for stuff instead of the usual 15 a month for a full game......so if you look at it....F2P is more expensive then subs anyways.
ps: i know i dont have to buy keys for chests or dye upgrades but thats what i like (customizing my character) and in GW2 that costs alot of money.
Ultimately tho it is your choice to pay that. I have never spent a cent on a F2P game. If the game becomes unplayable without buying cash shop items, I uninstall and move on. If I ever found a game that sold an item I felt was worth buying, I would have no problem doing so considering it isn't costing me a monthly fee But I will not be coerced with denial of content( LoTRO), tempted with lockboxes( GW2, Allods), or hampered by gameplay restrictions( TOR, Allods). There are too many MMOs out there to put up with being manipulated into paying for a "free" game.
I really do hate the P2W formular. One of many reasons I quit Atlantica. Thing Is as more and more MMO's Incorparate the "F2P" model, this kinda thing Is going to get more and more the norm. What makes me laugh though Is people won't pay a sub for a game yet they would rather gamble for a chance to get the new Clothes or mounts which in turns costs way more than a month sub. But thats my 2 cents on the matter.
I'll state as I have been for a long time. Everytime someone uses the advertising term " F2P " they are talking about a game that uses the P2W business model.
I will leave or not even try a game if there is one single item that completely unbalances the game. Cash shop games just lose their fun as soon as one of those type of items becomes available. However, it is kind of enjoyable to watch the player base of those games become excited when they first arrive, and then backlash at the publishers within a year after the release of such items.
I actually like the F2P model, in many respects. No gate for entry means the core game HAS to be good. Of course, few are...but still you don't have to PAY to find that out. How they choose to monetize the game beyond that really affects how good this is. You can't just say "pay for cosmetic" and think that will fly. It won't. Most players won't even grind a few hours of time away for cosmetic, even less are gonna PAY for it. There has to be some tangible, and desireable, thing to pay for. Now this should NOT be related directly to power. Your ability to play the core game should be unaffected. However stuff like plots of land to build on or special vehicles could easily be this.
Luna has a good example of this. You can buy a map item that lets you teleport to areas of the game. You do not need this item, but its nice. Its a convienince and its a big one. But it was a little overpriced. The issue in most F2P crap is that they don't just want a little money, they actually gun for MORE than subs would be. Instead they should look at monetizing the "lost" market. People who would never have subbed, but might drop 1-5 bucks a month in the till. If you can get that, you've gained something. instead they want to bleed the paying group by forcing them to spend more than 15$ to compensate those that don't pay. Its not smart, and there are better ways to do things.
I’m a little surprised the hate and dislike here from some commenters for free-to-play, pay-to-win games. I also find it funny that most of the complainers are the people who pay nothing to enjoy a game for free.
You realize that game companies are not government welfare agencies right? They have no obligation to make quality games for free. They are making games because they think they can create one that people like and then make money off it. Sorry to hit you with reality but that is how the world works, except for in the heads of a few popular political pundits who would try to make you think otherwise.
The rise of F2p games I has been a huge step forward for online games. 8 years ago when WoW came there were a few major MMOs all with monthly subscriptions, and that was it. But now look. There are probably 100+ MMO’s out there and while a lot are junk, quite a few are high quality games. The choice and selection you have now is awesome compared to the past.
The main advantage of F2p is it is actually better at monetization (than monthly subs) in many ways because it lets people who can and want to pay more to do so, and as a result, allows others who won’t or can’t afford to pay, to play for free. It’s win-win. I have a full time job. I can’t play for 30 hours a week anymore like I could when I was a teenager. Thus if a game is based purely on grind I will most likely always be behind in the game compared to those with such spare time. But I’m happy to pay a little more now and then (which I have) to get things like “xp boosts” so that I my scarce time playing is more rewarding in terms of advancement. As a result of me paying for this the company is now getting revenue and can continue maintaining and developing their game for the enjoyment of all, including the players who pay nothing.
Yes there is a whole debate about pay-to-win, but frankly that is a decision the company has chosen to make. Not all f2p games are pay-to-win though. For some the only things you buy are temporary boosts like I mentioned above or unique cosmetic customization. For these games paying players have no advantage power-wise over free players. But there is a reason for that, and it’s not just the devs kindness of their hearts. In games like Fallen Earth, most every item is crafted. Thus paying players like me actually benefit from a large population of free players who engage in the crafting/mining economy who help supply raw materials and purchase finished items. Without them the crafting economy would be much less worthwhile and less fun for everyone, including paying players. But without us paying players, the game wouldn’t exist. So it’s a symbiotic relationship that opens up such games to a wider player base.
On the other hand if a game is pay-to-win, meaning paying players receive huge power bonuses, then that is just life, deal with it. Usually these are games where there is little benefit to the paying players from the existence of a large free player base. This was a purposeful design by the devs. In these instances the company is usually using the free play method as an alternative means of a “trial gameplay” or demo. Hence free players in these games were never meant to be on equal footing, they were just given a much longer time to try the game out to see if they like it.
Just stop supporting these rip-off projects and things will change.
What do you really think will change?
Seriously all this against F2P/Cashshop doesn't really make any sense.
Let's look at pure sub based games, don't people know there are thousands and thousands of 3rd party websites that offers items, gold and what not.
People seem to forget that companies just want that money instead of that money goes "nowhere" near the game or it's company.
Most (gamecompany's and gamers alike) got fed up with those 3rd party websites, which logicaly turned this genre in what we see today with F2P + Cashshops.
Sure as a gamer I don't like it and do not use cashshops or itemshops, but still rather see a gamecompany make money of their own game then some third party illegal website getting money with no ingame return revenue. Obviously it is very usefull for a certain type of person who wants it all and wants it now since it's legit and they don't have to jump all sorts of illegal hoops to get what they want.
Or perhaps people are really that naieve to think that sub-based MMORPG don't have pay to win options, regardless if one uses it illegal.
The excuses used to make use of cashshop also from a gamers perspective for me personaly don't make allot of sense, myself hardly any gametime during the week, sometimes not even in the weekend, yet I never considered using a cashshop, main reason is that normaly a MMORPG goes on for years. Got all the time in the world to get to max lvl, why should I try do this in a few day's or weeks. I already play so many other games in other genre's that are pretty short to play. Don't need my MMORPG experiance to be the same as those . But hey that's me and doesn't mean I am right nor wrong.
And yes I am guilty too at feeling bad for games with cashshops, but then I just think about that it alway's has exsisted, though illegal, it still alway's has been there never the less.
You see in the past (old school) most common complaint was about spammers, goldsellers, while occasionnaly we still see them, they are less "populair" then today's F2P/Cashshop topics. I am sure will F2P not make it and/or disappear (unlikely I know) but then I am sure we get back at complaining about spammers/goldsellers in our games.
Browser games are on their own level with cash shops. I didn't fall victime to it but I feel bad for the people who did. For me the game that woke me up on browser based cash shops was Evony. Because of the free for all nature it was in at the beginning, the crazy, stupid zerging and the elimination system that left every server dead and in ruins inside a few weeks, I saw how stupid it was to put any money in that game.
I spent money on Need for Speed World just a few weeks ago. I don't feel wronged about that. Those cars are mine, mine as long as the servers are up. LotRO cash shop items have similar benefits. If I crank my stats up using cash shop buffs, I can increase my base health and power accordingly and those things stay with me. Those games are PvE. If I want to do that, other people can piss off.
Something like EVE Online, sure I could buy 10 plex, have enough to fit 10 or 15 battle cruisers but in EVE? It's pay to lose because you will still get face rolled if you don't know what you are doing.
All in all it's all good. Use smarts when deciding though. Whats good cash shop investments, whats a waste of time.
F2P Games are the strip clubs of the gaming world. You have some sexy woman telling you how great you are, then she says she's thirsty and asks for a drink. So you buy her that $50 shot of watered down rum, thinking "okay, it's just one drink right"? Then you buy her another one, then she starts saying how much she likes you and asks for your number. So you keep buying her more drinks, then suddenly her friends swarm you because they are "jealous" of her getting all the attention from the one hot guy in the club. Suddenly you are ringing up a thousand dollar tab.
Of course they start telling you how much they care about you, saying and doing anything they can to squeeze every last dime out of you. You walk out of the club that night feeling like the champion of the earth. The next morning you wake up sober; that's when you suddenly realize that you maxed out your credit card and spent your entire paycheck in one night on a glorfied prosititute. Thanks for making it easy software developers, to nickle and dime gamers to death for the sake of "entertainment".
Oh don't worry about giving us your credit card info, we'll put this on your tab, just click that shiney golden button that's persistently flashing all over your screen as you play.
Agree with varoious comments: An Exercise titillation + frustration.
A lot of mmorpgs perhaps use F2P because the main competition is for your time and if 90% don't cough up and 10% do, as long as you get those 10% to play the F2P mmorpg then it's business. The problem is the dishonesty: Players are not trusted to pay and developers are investigating ways to maximise the game design to exploit players. At least with a good mmorpg that the devs can build a reciprocal relationship with the players, then there's chance for progress imo. So I'm not tempted by F2P, perhaps to try some mechanics of a game, but I can't help thinking the devs don't give 2 sh*ts if they are flogging their product to everyone for "free".
Great example!!
Originally posted by aktalat
Kid #1: I want to be a multi-class Half-Elf Fighter-Magic-User!
DM: Sorry, multi-class requires you pay me $5, only single-class start free.
Kid #2: Ok, I've rolled my character, now I'm going to buy my initial equipment!
DM: Sorry, you have no in-game currencey, $5 for every 100 gold pieces, pay up!
Just stop supporting these rip-off projects and things will change.
Seriously all this against F2P/Cashshop doesn't really make any sense.
Let's look at pure sub based games, don't people know there are thousands and thousands of 3rd party websites that offers items, gold and what not.
Of course people against cash shops know this Rek, but they like those no better then this legitimised RMT. These games should be designing/ policing out the ability to fuel these 3rd party shops, not just selling 'our' games out for a slice of the action.
I mean... what you suggest here means we should maybe decriminalise burglary and let the government tax it? I mean.. you are never gonna stop it right and think of all the tax that go into trying... better to not bother and take a cut right? We can use the money to pay our MPs bigger wages after all.
Originally posted by asmkm22 Is this an article or is it a summary leading to an article? Once again, this feels like another introduction to content that doesn't exist...
Rather pay monthly then , go to a free to play game that has micro transactions , that way everyone is on the same playing field , unless the micro transactions are just for visual purposes then i'm fine with that, but if their is P2W in it , i'm gone.
Originally posted by Rommie10-284 Eventually the gambling aspect will land the frog in hot water. From there, who knows what will happen.
Frog Legs anyone?!
But seriously.... if people want to pay for the advantage then the games will survive, if no one or very little pay then the game shutsdown and end of story. Live and let live I say, but this gamer is one that will not fall to the pay to win trap.
Amazing how you can be so out of touch with reality. Just some examples, go play Perfect World, or Runes of Magic and try to come back and say that.
Played both both on official and private servers, the only difference your so called P2W shop makes in-game is ease, in Perfect World for example you can play completely free, grind through blood sweat and tears and get to the same place someone who paid to be there got to, it isn't about getting an unfair advantage it is about getting to the end-game faster. A clear cut example of this is Forsaken World where completely gearing your character with everything it needs would require months maybe even years of work considering drops and the fact you'd have to earn the in-game currency to trade for high level gems to embed into your items whereas someone who buys everything he needs from the shop could spend 2-3 months doing it, is it right? probably not, is it fair? yes, you both get to the same point with the same capabilities.
That being said there are crappy F2P models out there but remarkably most are from the western developers ( SWTOR being the shining turd of the bunch with its god awful excuse of a free to trial system ) as eastern developers learned a long, long time ago that making a F2P game with an insane grind which can be considerably reduced via a cash shop items while a bit of a ripoff is without a doubt more popular and a better system overall. Star Trek Online is a clear example of this (they took a crappy P2P system and shifted it over to a agreeable F2P system, you can get everything in-game regardless if you ever paid or not, it'll just take you longer if you didn't pay).
How many times on these forums have I and so many others spoken out against F2P and now it is everywhere. Now we are getting a reaction against P2W.
Wake up and smell the monetary coffee, if it makes money, then gaming companies will introduce it. In five years time we will be talking about how every MMO has P2W.
Our MMO's are becoming a travesty of what they once were and the desire to reach out to an ever wider demographic and rake in as many pennies as they can will only accelerate this trend.
Any form of in-game advantage for money is too far for me. I'll gladly pay a monthly fee for a MMO I enjoy playing, as long as what you achieve in the game is earned with time and effort spent playing the game.
1. Not all F2P games are F2P, the industry has labeled everything without a subscription with F2P or B2P, most of them are freemium/paytrap.
2. P2W is mostly a myth.
3. Atlantica Online makes more money with their gambling aspect shop than most P2P games, that is why Nexon makes over 1 BILLION DOLLARS a year in profits mostly coming from their F2P games. AO has been doing it for over 5 years, it isnt a flash in the pan thing that is going to go away. It is not as much a part of the genre as subscriptions.
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
Comments
Pay2Win starts at the beginning.... Want to play the game? Put down $40 (or lose).
It then moves on to fees... Want to play the second month? Put down $15 (or lose).
Lastly it moves on to microtransactions.... want x,y,z? Put down $5-500 (or lose).
Every game that is monitized is Pay2Win. Those who pay win, those who dont lose. Whenever there is a direct connection between money, and something you receive, this will exist. The only real option is to have 'donations' where they are not tied to anything receivable.
F2P=Reality.
P2W=Myth.
Where's the any key?
Ultimately tho it is your choice to pay that. I have never spent a cent on a F2P game. If the game becomes unplayable without buying cash shop items, I uninstall and move on. If I ever found a game that sold an item I felt was worth buying, I would have no problem doing so considering it isn't costing me a monthly fee But I will not be coerced with denial of content( LoTRO), tempted with lockboxes( GW2, Allods), or hampered by gameplay restrictions( TOR, Allods). There are too many MMOs out there to put up with being manipulated into paying for a "free" game.
I'll state as I have been for a long time. Everytime someone uses the advertising term " F2P " they are talking about a game that uses the P2W business model.
I will leave or not even try a game if there is one single item that completely unbalances the game. Cash shop games just lose their fun as soon as one of those type of items becomes available. However, it is kind of enjoyable to watch the player base of those games become excited when they first arrive, and then backlash at the publishers within a year after the release of such items.
SW:TOR
XP decrease after lvl 10?? F*** you!
I actually like the F2P model, in many respects. No gate for entry means the core game HAS to be good. Of course, few are...but still you don't have to PAY to find that out. How they choose to monetize the game beyond that really affects how good this is. You can't just say "pay for cosmetic" and think that will fly. It won't. Most players won't even grind a few hours of time away for cosmetic, even less are gonna PAY for it. There has to be some tangible, and desireable, thing to pay for. Now this should NOT be related directly to power. Your ability to play the core game should be unaffected. However stuff like plots of land to build on or special vehicles could easily be this.
Luna has a good example of this. You can buy a map item that lets you teleport to areas of the game. You do not need this item, but its nice. Its a convienince and its a big one. But it was a little overpriced. The issue in most F2P crap is that they don't just want a little money, they actually gun for MORE than subs would be. Instead they should look at monetizing the "lost" market. People who would never have subbed, but might drop 1-5 bucks a month in the till. If you can get that, you've gained something. instead they want to bleed the paying group by forcing them to spend more than 15$ to compensate those that don't pay. Its not smart, and there are better ways to do things.
I’m a little surprised the hate and dislike here from some commenters for free-to-play, pay-to-win games. I also find it funny that most of the complainers are the people who pay nothing to enjoy a game for free.
You realize that game companies are not government welfare agencies right? They have no obligation to make quality games for free. They are making games because they think they can create one that people like and then make money off it. Sorry to hit you with reality but that is how the world works, except for in the heads of a few popular political pundits who would try to make you think otherwise.
The rise of F2p games I has been a huge step forward for online games. 8 years ago when WoW came there were a few major MMOs all with monthly subscriptions, and that was it. But now look. There are probably 100+ MMO’s out there and while a lot are junk, quite a few are high quality games. The choice and selection you have now is awesome compared to the past.
The main advantage of F2p is it is actually better at monetization (than monthly subs) in many ways because it lets people who can and want to pay more to do so, and as a result, allows others who won’t or can’t afford to pay, to play for free. It’s win-win. I have a full time job. I can’t play for 30 hours a week anymore like I could when I was a teenager. Thus if a game is based purely on grind I will most likely always be behind in the game compared to those with such spare time. But I’m happy to pay a little more now and then (which I have) to get things like “xp boosts” so that I my scarce time playing is more rewarding in terms of advancement. As a result of me paying for this the company is now getting revenue and can continue maintaining and developing their game for the enjoyment of all, including the players who pay nothing.
Yes there is a whole debate about pay-to-win, but frankly that is a decision the company has chosen to make. Not all f2p games are pay-to-win though. For some the only things you buy are temporary boosts like I mentioned above or unique cosmetic customization. For these games paying players have no advantage power-wise over free players. But there is a reason for that, and it’s not just the devs kindness of their hearts. In games like Fallen Earth, most every item is crafted. Thus paying players like me actually benefit from a large population of free players who engage in the crafting/mining economy who help supply raw materials and purchase finished items. Without them the crafting economy would be much less worthwhile and less fun for everyone, including paying players. But without us paying players, the game wouldn’t exist. So it’s a symbiotic relationship that opens up such games to a wider player base.
On the other hand if a game is pay-to-win, meaning paying players receive huge power bonuses, then that is just life, deal with it. Usually these are games where there is little benefit to the paying players from the existence of a large free player base. This was a purposeful design by the devs. In these instances the company is usually using the free play method as an alternative means of a “trial gameplay” or demo. Hence free players in these games were never meant to be on equal footing, they were just given a much longer time to try the game out to see if they like it.
What do you really think will change?
Seriously all this against F2P/Cashshop doesn't really make any sense.
Let's look at pure sub based games, don't people know there are thousands and thousands of 3rd party websites that offers items, gold and what not.
People seem to forget that companies just want that money instead of that money goes "nowhere" near the game or it's company.
Most (gamecompany's and gamers alike) got fed up with those 3rd party websites, which logicaly turned this genre in what we see today with F2P + Cashshops.
Sure as a gamer I don't like it and do not use cashshops or itemshops, but still rather see a gamecompany make money of their own game then some third party illegal website getting money with no ingame return revenue. Obviously it is very usefull for a certain type of person who wants it all and wants it now since it's legit and they don't have to jump all sorts of illegal hoops to get what they want.
Or perhaps people are really that naieve to think that sub-based MMORPG don't have pay to win options, regardless if one uses it illegal.
The excuses used to make use of cashshop also from a gamers perspective for me personaly don't make allot of sense, myself hardly any gametime during the week, sometimes not even in the weekend, yet I never considered using a cashshop, main reason is that normaly a MMORPG goes on for years. Got all the time in the world to get to max lvl, why should I try do this in a few day's or weeks. I already play so many other games in other genre's that are pretty short to play. Don't need my MMORPG experiance to be the same as those . But hey that's me and doesn't mean I am right nor wrong.
And yes I am guilty too at feeling bad for games with cashshops, but then I just think about that it alway's has exsisted, though illegal, it still alway's has been there never the less.
You see in the past (old school) most common complaint was about spammers, goldsellers, while occasionnaly we still see them, they are less "populair" then today's F2P/Cashshop topics. I am sure will F2P not make it and/or disappear (unlikely I know) but then I am sure we get back at complaining about spammers/goldsellers in our games.
Browser games are on their own level with cash shops. I didn't fall victime to it but I feel bad for the people who did. For me the game that woke me up on browser based cash shops was Evony. Because of the free for all nature it was in at the beginning, the crazy, stupid zerging and the elimination system that left every server dead and in ruins inside a few weeks, I saw how stupid it was to put any money in that game.
I spent money on Need for Speed World just a few weeks ago. I don't feel wronged about that. Those cars are mine, mine as long as the servers are up. LotRO cash shop items have similar benefits. If I crank my stats up using cash shop buffs, I can increase my base health and power accordingly and those things stay with me. Those games are PvE. If I want to do that, other people can piss off.
Something like EVE Online, sure I could buy 10 plex, have enough to fit 10 or 15 battle cruisers but in EVE? It's pay to lose because you will still get face rolled if you don't know what you are doing.
All in all it's all good. Use smarts when deciding though. Whats good cash shop investments, whats a waste of time.
F2P Games are the strip clubs of the gaming world. You have some sexy woman telling you how great you are, then she says she's thirsty and asks for a drink. So you buy her that $50 shot of watered down rum, thinking "okay, it's just one drink right"? Then you buy her another one, then she starts saying how much she likes you and asks for your number. So you keep buying her more drinks, then suddenly her friends swarm you because they are "jealous" of her getting all the attention from the one hot guy in the club. Suddenly you are ringing up a thousand dollar tab.
Of course they start telling you how much they care about you, saying and doing anything they can to squeeze every last dime out of you. You walk out of the club that night feeling like the champion of the earth. The next morning you wake up sober; that's when you suddenly realize that you maxed out your credit card and spent your entire paycheck in one night on a glorfied prosititute. Thanks for making it easy software developers, to nickle and dime gamers to death for the sake of "entertainment".
Oh don't worry about giving us your credit card info, we'll put this on your tab, just click that shiney golden button that's persistently flashing all over your screen as you play.
Agree with varoious comments: An Exercise titillation + frustration.
A lot of mmorpgs perhaps use F2P because the main competition is for your time and if 90% don't cough up and 10% do, as long as you get those 10% to play the F2P mmorpg then it's business. The problem is the dishonesty: Players are not trusted to pay and developers are investigating ways to maximise the game design to exploit players. At least with a good mmorpg that the devs can build a reciprocal relationship with the players, then there's chance for progress imo. So I'm not tempted by F2P, perhaps to try some mechanics of a game, but I can't help thinking the devs don't give 2 sh*ts if they are flogging their product to everyone for "free".
Great example!!
http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1014633/Classic-Game-Postmortem
Profits generated by openly targeting the vulnerable...
Is this really where we have arrived at as a culture in the West?
F2P is a seedy and exploitative model that relies on lieing, manipulating, and hiding true costs behind fake currencies. We deserve better.
Of course people against cash shops know this Rek, but they like those no better then this legitimised RMT. These games should be designing/ policing out the ability to fuel these 3rd party shops, not just selling 'our' games out for a slice of the action.
I mean... what you suggest here means we should maybe decriminalise burglary and let the government tax it? I mean.. you are never gonna stop it right and think of all the tax that go into trying... better to not bother and take a cut right? We can use the money to pay our MPs bigger wages after all.
You make me like charity
you have to pay if you want to read the rest.
Amazing how you can be so out of touch with reality. Just some examples, go play Perfect World, or Runes of Magic and try to come back and say that.
Frog Legs anyone?!
But seriously.... if people want to pay for the advantage then the games will survive, if no one or very little pay then the game shutsdown and end of story. Live and let live I say, but this gamer is one that will not fall to the pay to win trap.
Played both both on official and private servers, the only difference your so called P2W shop makes in-game is ease, in Perfect World for example you can play completely free, grind through blood sweat and tears and get to the same place someone who paid to be there got to, it isn't about getting an unfair advantage it is about getting to the end-game faster. A clear cut example of this is Forsaken World where completely gearing your character with everything it needs would require months maybe even years of work considering drops and the fact you'd have to earn the in-game currency to trade for high level gems to embed into your items whereas someone who buys everything he needs from the shop could spend 2-3 months doing it, is it right? probably not, is it fair? yes, you both get to the same point with the same capabilities.
That being said there are crappy F2P models out there but remarkably most are from the western developers ( SWTOR being the shining turd of the bunch with its god awful excuse of a free to trial system ) as eastern developers learned a long, long time ago that making a F2P game with an insane grind which can be considerably reduced via a cash shop items while a bit of a ripoff is without a doubt more popular and a better system overall. Star Trek Online is a clear example of this (they took a crappy P2P system and shifted it over to a agreeable F2P system, you can get everything in-game regardless if you ever paid or not, it'll just take you longer if you didn't pay).
How many times on these forums have I and so many others spoken out against F2P and now it is everywhere. Now we are getting a reaction against P2W.
Wake up and smell the monetary coffee, if it makes money, then gaming companies will introduce it. In five years time we will be talking about how every MMO has P2W.
Our MMO's are becoming a travesty of what they once were and the desire to reach out to an ever wider demographic and rake in as many pennies as they can will only accelerate this trend.
Any form of in-game advantage for money is too far for me. I'll gladly pay a monthly fee for a MMO I enjoy playing, as long as what you achieve in the game is earned with time and effort spent playing the game.
1. Not all F2P games are F2P, the industry has labeled everything without a subscription with F2P or B2P, most of them are freemium/paytrap.
2. P2W is mostly a myth.
3. Atlantica Online makes more money with their gambling aspect shop than most P2P games, that is why Nexon makes over 1 BILLION DOLLARS a year in profits mostly coming from their F2P games. AO has been doing it for over 5 years, it isnt a flash in the pan thing that is going to go away. It is not as much a part of the genre as subscriptions.
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson