Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Fuzzy Avatars Solved! Please re-upload your avatar if it was fuzzy!

How the Developers are out of touch.....

245

Comments

  • deakondeakon birminghamPosts: 583Member
    Double post
  • GdemamiGdemami Beau VallonPosts: 7,865Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by ZigZagsOf the 27 friends on my Steam list that play TES series, all of them play MMO games as well.

    They need more than just 27+1 subscriber though...

  • JyiigaJyiiga Seneca, SCPosts: 1,041Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by deakon
    Originally posted by Jyiiga

    Yeah I agree with several others here. I get a GW2 vibe from a lot of what they say. I really do not get a Elder Scrolls vibe from anything beyond the setting of the game.

    Most of the things that draw me to Elder Scrolls games and suck up hundreds of my hours.. Do not appear to exist in this title. 

    When you start mashing in things like class based gameplay, group oriented dungeons, pvp areas... None of that is ES at all and all of it has already been done many times. 

    So an elder scrolls mmo should have no pvp or group content then? Wouldnt that just be TES:VI then tho?

    After watching that 10 minute trailer that put out for the game I was literally laughing in my chair. Watching scenes where it was taking 5+ people to take down things like a Flame Atronach was just plain silly to me. Dungeons from all the other ES titles were a very special experience.. Creeping through them slowly, watching for traps, stealth takedowns, epic battles against superior odds. Then you watch that video and see people bunny hopping about.. Nothing during those 10 minutes of footage made it look different over anything else we have. It looked just like a WOW/SWTOR dungeon zerg. 

     

    If what they have shown us so far.... Is what the game is going to be like.. Its going to be another 2-3 month speed bump title for the majority of the people that play it. 

     

  • aspekxaspekx Brandon, FLPosts: 2,167Member
    Originally posted by ZigZags 

    at 8:04 This is what GW2 did and is totally stupid and is what happens when you force and funnel people to a PVP area. Rather than giving us an open world we can PVP in at any level which is what we haven't seen in a while and is something I think most of s hunger for. Zenimax is failing hard here.

     

    These are just a few examples of how I believe the Developers are out of touch with what the MMO/TES fans and players are thirsting for in this title. As in all previous TES, we want a non linear OPEN WORLD where we can do what we want when we want. Factions are OK if you allow cross factions to explore the opposing faction's areas. By zone locking us out and funneling us into Cyrodil you are no different than what SWTOR tried to do, what GW2 is doing and failing at and what DAOC did but was never as big as it wanted to be. Zenimax should take lessons from the failures of the past and not make the same mistakes. Take EQ as an example. As a Halfing I could venture to Dark Elf territory and sweat bullets that I wouldn't be detected and KOS. THAT's the kind of feel we want. Not some carebear safety zones with a race to 50 so we can pvp in Cyrodil and definitely not the computer auto scaling my level and gear so I can fight in Cyrodil at lvl 10. That is so carebear and NOT what TES fans are going to pay for long term.

    once again an FFA PvP fan fails basic comprehension when he decides what the entire mmo community must be salivating for what he has always wanted. which is of course absolutely false.

    while i certainly agree with him about the locked out zones, that's where the similarity ends. i dont mind being KOS when i meander into an opposing faction's zone. i do mind being KOS to every 12 year old (and yes there are plenty of 40yr olds who are 12yr olds at heart) with nothing better to do than harass me while i am trying to enjoy a game.

    at what point did TES fans all become FFA PVP fans? or hell, even factional pvp fans? the OP might be surprised to learn that socially backwards interpersonal interactions might be the very thing that keeps folks playing TES games and not say ... oh i don't know the few pvp oriented games that have been released in the last decade all of which have failed.

    "There are at least two kinds of games.
    One could be called finite, the other infinite.
    A finite game is played for the purpose of winning,
    an infinite game for the purpose of continuing play."
    Finite and Infinite Games, James Carse

  • VesaviusVesavius BristolPosts: 7,645Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by deakon
    Originally posted by Vesavius
    Originally posted by deakon
    Originally posted by Jyiiga

    Yeah I agree with several others here. I get a GW2 vibe from a lot of what they say. I really do not get a Elder Scrolls vibe from anything beyond the setting of the game.

    Most of the things that draw me to Elder Scrolls games and suck up hundreds of my hours.. Do not appear to exist in this title. 

    When you start mashing in things like class based gameplay, group oriented dungeons, pvp areas... None of that is ES at all and all of it has already been done many times. 

    So an elder scrolls mmo should have no pvp or group content then? Wouldnt that just be TES:VI then tho?

     

    IMO going PvP with this game was a huge mistake and will alienate a lot of the traditional TES audience, who obviously have a lot of love for PvE because thats what has sold the series, and has just been used as a cheap content generator. This game is setting itself up for a classic identity crisis as it is obviously going to struggle to be all things to all men.

    They would have been better throwing the PvP dev resource into long term player retention mechanics like housing and player created content I think. The PvP market is oversatured to say the least, while the co-op PvE one remains under served.

    I know the sentiment won't be a popular one, but making a PvP game out of a PvE title will bite then in the arse somewhere down the line.

    I dont think that will be an issue as they arent making a "pvp game" only cyrodiil will have pvp the rest of the game is pure pve

     

    Plus your assuming that most tes players havent played mmo's, online fps', moba's etc, but from my experience most have, so having optional but meaningfull pvp should be a good thing not a bad thing

     

    The fact is though that PvP will be a massive part of the game, just as it is with something like GW2.

    I am not actually assuming what you assume I am assuming (lol)...

    I am making the point that a lot of people go to different games for different things, and that many will simply not want PvP in their TES... especially considering that there are a ton of games that already offer that (that a lot of TES players obviously are choosing not to play from looking at it's sales figures vs general PvP focused MMO player figures).

    A lot of folks go to TES games, a lot of the time, for something different. I feel that this will lead to an identity crisis for the game as it struggles to keep both camps happy.

    We shall see.

  • skydiver12skydiver12 burgundPosts: 432Member

    The issue with TESO is as with the last three "Big" titles, everything is so "massiv" - and we all know how "massiv" the tiny hub zones of GW2 worked out - "massiv" world what a joke, or how the "massiv" World of SWTOR turned out.

    I'm not going to regret writing how "massiv" TESO will turn out. Tiny Themepark like.
    Because like the other "out of touch" Developers, these hype diaries love to talk about how massive the geographic "highlights" they covered in a 10 feet square rather than landscapes to play in.


    Scaling is the issue, nowdays developers take an imaginary 1000 km landscape, press the two border mountain ranges in it, all in 2 km square and call it "all of Cyrodil".

    Everyone here thinking he actually get's landscape worth the size of even just one TES game, oh boy.

  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    Veasavias is right

    TESO will be a more pvp orientated game than say wow. There's a lot of focus on the alliance war. The 2 lead developers come from more pvp orientated games (daoc & uo), as do many of the devs.

    I don't think TESO will be your typical raid or die game.
  • ThomasN7ThomasN7 87.18.7.148 1, NJPosts: 6,690Member
    They don't need to bring in the casual mmo player, they already have millions of Elder Scrolls diehards. That is where they will have a problem. Not specifically catering to the Elder scrolls fanbase is a big concern.
    30
  • RimmersmanRimmersman MonacoPosts: 885Member
    Originally posted by Normandy7

    They don't need to bring in the casual mmo player, they already have millions of Elder Scrolls diehards. That is where they will have a problem. Not specifically catering to the Elder scrolls fanbase is a big concern.

     

    You have it the wrong way round imo. There are millions of MMO player's who could not give a feck about lore or if the game is like WOW. Here on mmorpg.com we are not the majority of MMO player's, we do not speak for the masses. Most sensible mmo player's no to stay away from mmorpg.cm and it's one sided promoting of certain games and its jaded mmo gamers. TESO will have no problem surviving even if the majority of their fan base don't play the game.

    image
  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIPosts: 8,278Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by ZigZags

    It depends. When more information is out I will make the decision then. But as of today based on what I know, it doesn't look good and I don't want to support the business model of: "Lets make a mediocre game, hype it up and make our profit in the first 3 months so who cares about the quality long term." But I do realize most in the MMO community will continue to support this business model.

    You have enough information to say the developers are out of touch, but you don't have enough to decide if you going to play.

     

    I think you should cool out a bit, until closer to launch, until someone has played it.

  • karmathkarmath Posts: 829Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Normandy7
    They don't need to bring in the casual mmo player, they already have millions of Elder Scrolls diehards. That is where they will have a problem. Not specifically catering to the Elder scrolls fanbase is a big concern.

    This.

    They alienated their core fanbase, for the sake of casuals and or people who couldnt care less about the IP and what it stands for.

    The whole point of an online TES game is totally missed as to why people actually care about the IP, as the openended gameplay is what the IP is renowned for, take that away and its just yet another fantasy IP.

  • DollMighty8313DollMighty8313 St. Cloud, MNPosts: 179Member
    I always have a hard time reading threads like this when players claim to have an answer why they know developers are out of touch.  OP did bring up some legitimate reasons, but they are revolve around the fact that he has had some pretty crappy expereiences in the past.  I haven't had those issues at all.
  • DollMighty8313DollMighty8313 St. Cloud, MNPosts: 179Member
    Originally posted by karmath
    Originally posted by Normandy7
    They don't need to bring in the casual mmo player, they already have millions of Elder Scrolls diehards. That is where they will have a problem. Not specifically catering to the Elder scrolls fanbase is a big concern.

    This.

    They alienated their core fanbase, for the sake of casuals and or people who couldnt care less about the IP and what it stands for.

    The whole point of an online TES game is totally missed as to why people actually care about the IP, as the openended gameplay is what the IP is renowned for, take that away and its just yet another fantasy IP.

    There is just certain stuff that one cannot do with an MMO that can be done with a single player game like Oblivion or Skyrim though.  You have to remember that.  

  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIPosts: 8,278Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by ZigZags

    This is what GW2 did and is totally stupid and is what happens when you force and funnel people to a PVP area. Rather than giving us an open world we can PVP in at any level which is what we haven't seen in a while and is something I think most of s hunger for. 

    TSW aswell. Heck you might aswell count swtor too. 

     

    I found myself in Age of Wushu. That game made me wonder wth are these western companies doing. These guys are spot on when it comes to scratching my mmorpg pvp itch.

     

    Wide open, anything goes, but you have to be willing to do the time, if you do the crime. Literally. 

     

    Right now TESO saving grace, for me, is the combat system. It looks to have a analog type feel, down to waring any type of armor. 

  • Bl4ck3nDBl4ck3nD BrisbanePosts: 114Member
    It's not really a TES game, It might have the name but that's all it has in common with a TES game, I won't be touching this with a 20ft barge pole.
  • DollMighty8313DollMighty8313 St. Cloud, MNPosts: 179Member
    Originally posted by Bl4ck3nD
    It's not really a TES game, It might have the name but that's all it has in common with a TES game, I won't be touching this with a 20ft barge pole.

    That is simply untrue.  It has a plethora of things in common with it.  The characters, NPC's, world, lore, and much much more.  I'm not tryig to sound like a TES propagandist, but you are simply not right in your statement.

  • FearumFearum Cinnaminson, NJPosts: 1,166Member Uncommon

    Where is the pause button? Not ES unless it has one.

  • EyrothathEyrothath Phoenix, AZPosts: 198Member
    When I think of a Elder Scrolls MMO I think of "Skyrim, but online.." So therefore, things like Instances, Battlegrounds, etc.. Do not appeal to me.. I think FFA PVP would be just fine in a Elder Scrolls MMO though, I can imagine doing all the things to players that I do in PVE in the Elder Scrolls games, backstabbing my ally's and looting them dry, etc.. I don't like the idea of factions either.. The factions should be the guilds in the game.. "Warrior's Guild, Mages Guild, The Dark Brotherhood, etc.." That you join later on down the road when you decide what your character is gonna be, I am all for things like that and then backstabbing my friends and looting them dry.. That's what I think of when I think of an Elder Scrolls MMO..
  • FearumFearum Cinnaminson, NJPosts: 1,166Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Eyrothath
    When I think of a Elder Scrolls MMO I think of "Skyrim, but online.." So therefore, things like Instances, Battlegrounds, etc.. Do not appeal to me.. I think FFA PVP would be just fine in a Elder Scrolls MMO though, I can imagine doing all the things to players that I do in PVE in the Elder Scrolls games, backstabbing my ally's and looting them dry, etc.. I don't like the idea of factions either.. The factions should be the guilds in the game.. "Warrior's Guild, Mages Guild, The Dark Brotherhood, etc.." That you join later on down the road when you decide what your character is gonna be, I am all for things like that and then backstabbing my friends and looting them dry.. That's what I think of when I think of an Elder Scrolls MMO..

    When I think of Skyrim I think of boring, lifeless, void of anyone but myself world filled with NPC that are really stupid. No PvP at all because its only me there, alone and bored.

    When has an NPC killed and looted you dry when you were playing Skyrim?

  • EyrothathEyrothath Phoenix, AZPosts: 198Member
    Originally posted by Fearum
    Originally posted by Eyrothath
    When I think of a Elder Scrolls MMO I think of "Skyrim, but online.." So therefore, things like Instances, Battlegrounds, etc.. Do not appeal to me.. I think FFA PVP would be just fine in a Elder Scrolls MMO though, I can imagine doing all the things to players that I do in PVE in the Elder Scrolls games, backstabbing my ally's and looting them dry, etc.. I don't like the idea of factions either.. The factions should be the guilds in the game.. "Warrior's Guild, Mages Guild, The Dark Brotherhood, etc.." That you join later on down the road when you decide what your character is gonna be, I am all for things like that and then backstabbing my friends and looting them dry.. That's what I think of when I think of an Elder Scrolls MMO..

    When I think of Skyrim I think of boring, lifeless, void of anyone but myself world filled with NPC that are really stupid. No PvP at all because its only me there, alone and bored.

    When has an NPC killed and looted you dry when you were playing Skyrim?

    What I am saying is that the players should fill the void in a Elder Scrolls MMO where you would normally find NPC's.. Think about it, if you're making a Elder Scrolls game and you want not just PVP in the game but freedom of play, is the feature inside the game, we have a massive amount of freedom of play the Elder Scrolls games and more so in skyrim, it is not all so restricted like in most MMO's, a Elder Scrolls MMO should be without those same restrictions, therefore, it would have PVP but that is not the feature.. I am sick of hearing about "PVP vs PVE" in a MMO, has anyone considered having "Roleplaying" as the feature instead? True roleplayers play MMO's for the social experience, for an interactive world where they don't have to be themselves, where they can play as someone who is different from them, sandbox games are perfect for that group of players because they offer more choices for your character and more possibilities, the more realism there is in a online game, the more roleplayers it will attract.. That's why many of us love TES, you are immersed in that kind of envrionment, weather you realize it or not, you are roleplaying...

  • MaelwyddMaelwydd CrawleyPosts: 1,123Member

    The comments about factions and guilds being a better option is where I thought the game should ahve gone. Start off with no faction ties and through play, and choice of which guild you choose, fighters, mages, thieves or Assassins guild, you then fight for whichever regional faction you wanted. Bottom line though, guild (or in this case faction) choice was always an option, the freedom to choose how to play your character and which guild to choose was always a major  part of the game in my eyes...perhaps the biggest 'Choice' and any of the TES games.

    The fact that you are a faction by birth rather then choice is just a mechanic used to force people into their 3 faction PvP game design. And even though TESO is an MMO PvP isn't really a selling point IMO except to people who could care less waht the game is about but who just want to play a game. It makes the decision to have 3 fixed factions into a souless MMO feature and to be honest an uneccessary one. There are many ways it could have been done, the best would probably have been like it was done in Skyrim where you perform a series of missions for your chosen faction but never have to make the choice if you didn't want to do so.

    But the head designer was lauded for his design of DAOC PvP and Damn me if he is just not going to use the same idea in this game, regardless of if it fits, if it removes player freedom or if it just goes against one of the main principles and history of the many years of TES games. He is right though....right? It worked before so lets rehash the idea, use a popular IP and change the name from DAOC to TESO.!

  • Bl4ck3nDBl4ck3nD BrisbanePosts: 114Member
    Originally posted by dollada06
    Originally posted by Bl4ck3nD
    It's not really a TES game, It might have the name but that's all it has in common with a TES game, I won't be touching this with a 20ft barge pole.

    That is simply untrue.  It has a plethora of things in common with it.  The characters, NPC's, world, lore, and much much more.  I'm not tryig to sound like a TES propagandist, but you are simply not right in your statement.

    but it doesn't have the free form TES play which is I believe makes the game, it's just WoW with a TES skin

  • LaromussLaromuss vancouver, BCPosts: 324Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Bl4ck3nD
    Originally posted by dollada06
    Originally posted by Bl4ck3nD
    It's not really a TES game, It might have the name but that's all it has in common with a TES game, I won't be touching this with a 20ft barge pole.

    That is simply untrue.  It has a plethora of things in common with it.  The characters, NPC's, world, lore, and much much more.  I'm not tryig to sound like a TES propagandist, but you are simply not right in your statement.

    but it doesn't have the free form TES play which is I believe makes the game, it's just WoW with a TES skin

    elaborate on free form?  Casue from what I"ve seen and read on TESO it is open ended, exploration, classes, questing etc.  

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member


    Originally posted by Bl4ck3nD
    Originally posted by dollada06 Originally posted by Bl4ck3nD It's not really a TES game, It might have the name but that's all it has in common with a TES game, I won't be touching this with a 20ft barge pole.
    That is simply untrue.  It has a plethora of things in common with it.  The characters, NPC's, world, lore, and much much more.  I'm not tryig to sound like a TES propagandist, but you are simply not right in your statement.
    but it doesn't have the free form TES play which is I believe makes the game, it's just WoW with a TES skin


    Why, exactly, do you think that? There is very little information available on what mechanics will be used in the game, and even less information on how those mechanics will be implemented. The game will likely have quests, but will they be WoW style quest hubs or will they by Skyrim style quests?

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • MyTabbycatMyTabbycat SP, MOPosts: 312Member
    The devs have said that quest givers won't have exclamation marks over their heads. You actually have to go out in the world and talk to the NPC's to find out if they have any quests for you to do. So in that sense, questing will not be at all like WoW. Also, using the compass is optional. It will work like it does in Skyrim - pointing out points of interest as you get closer to them.
Sign In or Register to comment.