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So...are "trolls" and "haters" onto something in the MMO genre?

TheScavengerTheScavenger Matrix, NYPosts: 911Member Uncommon

Lets take a look at all the previous MMO releases...starting from the latest.

 

I was a HUGE fan of GW2...thought it was going to be the next big thing. I avoided the GW2 section for the most part, didn't feel bothered enough to argue with people who were "trolls" and "haters".

 

Turns out...GW2 has been bleeding out players faster than SWTOR ever did. The server I was on...complete ghost town in about a month or two. The guild of 400 (split in 2 guilds)...completely dead. The dynamic events near impossible to do, no one chatting except in the major cities. Moved to the next "full" server...completely dead...however, when a major event happens...the activity sky rockets and its as active as it ever was. Between luls, the game is just empty. Turns out the "trolls" "haters" were right.

 

SWTOR...again I was a fan, even more so than GW2. I even got warned a few times and banned arguing with people who I called "trolls" "haters"...and we all know how that game ended up.

Same with Age of Conan. Exept this time I was called a hater and banned a couple times. Turns out, the game after Tortage (like I and many others stated on the forums) sucked. We were called liars, trolls and it was worse than even GW2 at this stage. Banned for saying the game sucked after tortage, for "trolling".

And those are the only MMOs I've been a part of pre-release. So those are the only examples I'll give.

 

In each of those cases...all the trolls and haters get banned (or even perma banned)...but in each of those cases...the majority of these so called "trolls" have been correct. Most of the time I've been wrong, and realized that I should have listened to these haters and trolls and saved my money and time.

 

So...I think in this, we can learn that trolls and haters are actually quite right in a lot of these cases. Yet they get repeatedly banned or their posts deleted. I know when I was a fan of GW2 or SWTOR, I thought those two would never do wrong...well I was wrong. Could have saved a lot of time, hype and money on something else.

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Comments

  • DauzqulDauzqul Detroit, MIPosts: 1,401Member Uncommon
    People aren't going to complain about a great restaurant.
  • pacovpacov Saskatoon, SKPosts: 311Member
    Originally posted by TheScavenger
    Could have saved a lot of time, hype and money on something else.

    All you said was a personal opinion that I can't argue over but this... I don't know about you but if you played for 4 months to realize that GW2 is starting to lose players its normal, but how can you say you wasted money on a game you only payed $60 for? I am currently at 500 hours and even if I don't play it as often I still got the most out of my dollar for this game.

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  • EladiEladi ArnhemPosts: 1,100Member Uncommon
    If I keep saying that car is going to crash everytime one passes me I will eventualy get right. if a large group of people say it all the time just for the sake of saying it they will get right more often.
  • StonesDKStonesDK SomewherePosts: 1,805Member
    Sounds like you are waking up to the fact you may just have had a too wide definition of a troll/hater expanding the terms to anybody who criticise something you like

     

     

     

  • TheScavengerTheScavenger Matrix, NYPosts: 911Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by pacov
    Originally posted by TheScavenger
    Could have saved a lot of time, hype and money on something else.

    All you said was a personal opinion that I can't argue over but this... I don't know about you but if you played for 4 months to realize that GW2 is starting to lose players its normal, but how can you say you wasted money on a game you only payed $60 for? I am currently at 500 hours and even if I don't play it as often I still got the most out of my dollar for this game.

    I only got a month or two out of it. Got more time out of SWTOR, Skyrim, WoW, EQ2 and such and spent a lot less (sales :P). I got around 120 hours or so, played, for GW2. Which is very little for an MMO. Heck, I played more of GW1 than I did GW2. I liked GW1 a lot more. Of course that is my opinion, but at the 1-2 month mark, toward the end, servers and guilds were dropping like flies. Which is pretty much why I left.

     

    I noticed a HUGE drop after they announced the...legendary items or whatever it was.

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  • TheScavengerTheScavenger Matrix, NYPosts: 911Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Starpower
    Sounds like you are waking up to the fact you may just have had a too wide definition of a troll/hater expanding the terms to anybody who criticise something you like

     

     

     

    yeah this could be. I noticed many fans of the games I listed, if anyone (and I was part of it with SWTOR and GW2) said anything negative...many of us...automatically called them trolls, reported them and they got banned (or warned).

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  • Psy410Psy410 DesamparadosPosts: 70Member

    I don't think trolls and haters are the only ones that are "onto something in the mmo genre"...

    "We" (as a society) are becoming harder and harder to impress, and you know, mmorpgs are no longer as niche as in the first days.

    Now many expect much more from everything and anything.

    Is this bad? It is just human nature.  

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  • birdycephonbirdycephon Salt Lake City, UTPosts: 1,314Member
    Originally posted by mmoDAD
    People aren't going to complain about a great restaurant.

    Wrong. Some people will always find something to complain about.

  • ezpz77ezpz77 Beale, CAPosts: 227Member
    Originally posted by birdycephon
    Originally posted by mmoDAD
    People aren't going to complain about a great restaurant.

    Wrong. Some people will always find something to complain about.

     

    There's a big difference between criticism and complaining. The two get mixed up way too often on this site.

  • birdycephonbirdycephon Salt Lake City, UTPosts: 1,314Member
    Originally posted by ezpz77
    Originally posted by birdycephon
    Originally posted by mmoDAD
    People aren't going to complain about a great restaurant.

    Wrong. Some people will always find something to complain about.

     

    There's a big difference between criticism and complaining. The two get mixed up way too often on this site.

    Criticism is usually constructive, but in 90% of the posts I see, there is nothing constructive about it.

  • DraemosDraemos Antartica, AKPosts: 1,469Member
    Originally posted by Eladi
    If I keep saying that car is going to crash everytime one passes me I will eventualy get right. if a large group of people say it all the time just for the sake of saying it they will get right more often.

    If 9/10 cars crashed this might be a suiting analogy. But it's not.  Bad game design is pretty easy to spot. 

  • ezpz77ezpz77 Beale, CAPosts: 227Member
    Originally posted by birdycephon
    Originally posted by ezpz77
    Originally posted by birdycephon
    Originally posted by mmoDAD
    People aren't going to complain about a great restaurant.

    Wrong. Some people will always find something to complain about.

     

    There's a big difference between criticism and complaining. The two get mixed up way too often on this site.

    Criticism is usually constructive, but in 90% of the posts I see, there is nothing constructive about it.

     

    I completely disagree. There's validity in criticism without being constructive. Sometimes I can't offer solutions to the problem because I don't know enough about game design and the internal workings of a particular game to do so, but discussing the problems with others who may know more than me is pretty constructive. Even getting a different point of view can be constructive. The problem with this site is that as soon as problems are pointed out, regardless of validity, there is usually a massive bitchfest calling people a fanboy or a hater. The whole thing devolves into who can prove who wrong instead of discussing the actual problems. That's forum PVP for ya I suppose.

  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIPosts: 8,261Member Uncommon
    Thank you. I feel vendicated. 
  • zomard100zomard100 karlovacPosts: 228Member
    Well, trolls and haters failed only with one game. They never succed to bring wow down. I had 2 good months with swtor and i can't understand your point of wasted money, same is with GW2. Dude gw2 is new game and will be updated for years. Buying single player games is for me waste of money, 1 day of fun and it is over. P.S. Your post has nothing to do with trolling?
  • ragz45ragz45 rochester hills, MIPosts: 686Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Psy410

    I don't think trolls and haters are the only ones that are "onto something in the mmo genre"...

    "We" (as a society) are becoming harder and harder to impress, and you know, mmorpgs are no longer as niche as in the first days.

    Now many expect much more from everything and anything.

    Is this bad? It is just human nature.  

    Actually this is what IMHO is the root cause of the last 6 years of MMO failings.  MMO's keep trying to pander to multiple niches of gamers.  All the recent studios want to make an MMO that the PvPers, Hardcores, Crafters, Raiders, Casuals, & RPers can all play together and get along well with each other.  This is ultimately the wrong recipe for success.  The reason games like EvE & WoW are so popular is that they both cater to a very niche group of players.  They tell the rest of the gaming population "if you don't like it, there's the door".  (those two niches being the Crafter/entrepreneur & Casuals respectivly)  WoW is quickly bleeding out it's "hardcore raiders", because they are focusing on the casual Niche, which is the larger segment of their gaming population, and they are ok with that.

    **Edit** I would have used Darkfall as a good example of another game that caters to a very specific Niche, but I don't know that I can really call it sucessful.

  • OnomasOnomas Rock Hill, SCPosts: 1,128Member Uncommon

    If someone speaks the truth how can you label them as troll or hater?

    If a game sucks, it sucks. You can defend it all you want and try to reason with yourself, but in the end it still sucks.

    Problem is games are too linear now and dont offer proper mmorpg features to occupy its gamers. You can eat thru your story and quests in a matter of days, leaves a dead and barren game. You need more and a good balance in game. Your features ahve to subsidize your story and quests like crafting, exploration, decoration of a house, etc. If not it becomes very boring very quickly. And then within a few weeks or months they just jump to another game. Console mentality has harmed the mmorpg genre.

  • XAPKenXAPKen Northwest, INPosts: 4,905Member Uncommon

    I think we're in the era of MMO train-wrecks.

     

    The issue I see is that MMO devs can't seem to prioritize that which is important.

     


    Ken Fisher - Semi retired old fart Network Administrator, now turned Amateur Game Developer.  I don't Forum PVP.  If you feel I've attacked you, it was probably by accident.  Realm Lords 2 on MMORPG.com
  • RaysheRayshe London, ONPosts: 1,284Member

    Here is the thing, Trolls and Haters have this little routine they do. They make a predition that is the industry norm and when it happens they jump up and down like they are nostradamus or something. 4 months and then a playerbase bleed is normal because of the casuals we have gathered. You have seen them on this site i know it. The people who are pissed off that they dont get a quality game when they admit that they would jump to a new game after a max of 4 months of play. Casuals treat MMO's like they are Single Player games, and now that we have a HUGE list of Free to Play games they feel like they are in heaven because now they know they can atleast get a few hours enjoyment out of the game before they can jump into a whole new game Without paying a cent. I donno whether to Blame F2P or Casuals on this turn of events. If anything i would blame WoW for making the genre look interesting to Casuals.

     

    But in terms of Trolls and Haters making preditions that come true, Well i make a prediction that after 4 o'clock comes 4:01. Look i can see the future.

    Because i can.
    I'm Hopeful For Every Game, Until the Fan Boys Attack My Games. Then the Knives Come Out.
    Logic every gamers worst enemy.

  • DavisFlightDavisFlight Talahasee, FLPosts: 2,556Member
    Originally posted by Eladi
    If I keep saying that car is going to crash everytime one passes me I will eventualy get right. if a large group of people say it all the time just for the sake of saying it they will get right more often.

    Except we've been right almost every time. The only real surprise was how successful Darkfall was.

  • ragz45ragz45 rochester hills, MIPosts: 686Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by DavisFlight
    Originally posted by Eladi
    If I keep saying that car is going to crash everytime one passes me I will eventualy get right. if a large group of people say it all the time just for the sake of saying it they will get right more often.

    Except we've been right almost every time. The only real surprise was how successful Darkfall was.

    Heh you might want to wait a few months before making claims like that.  Sounds like the claims that SWTOR was the best mmo ever created the week before it released.

  • RaysheRayshe London, ONPosts: 1,284Member
    4 Month rule. don't go claiming anything yet. As i said you guys are not Nostradamus, at most you are good at seeing trends.

    Because i can.
    I'm Hopeful For Every Game, Until the Fan Boys Attack My Games. Then the Knives Come Out.
    Logic every gamers worst enemy.

  • Psy410Psy410 DesamparadosPosts: 70Member
    Originally posted by ragz45

    Actually this is what IMHO is the root cause of the last 6 years of MMO failings.  MMO's keep trying to pander to multiple niches of gamers.  All the recent studios want to make an MMO that the PvPers, Hardcores, Crafters, Raiders, Casuals, & RPers can all play together and get along well with each other.  This is ultimately the wrong recipe for success.  The reason games like EvE & WoW are so popular is that they both cater to a very niche group of players.  They tell the rest of the gaming population "if you don't like it, there's the door".  (those two niches being the Crafter/entrepreneur & Casuals respectivly)  WoW is quickly bleeding out it's "hardcore raiders", because they are focusing on the casual Niche, which is the larger segment of their gaming population, and they are ok with that.

    **Edit** I would have used Darkfall as a good example of another game that caters to a very specific Niche, but I don't know that I can really call it sucessful.

    Then maybe they shouldn't try to "pander to multiple niches of gamers"... as I said the mmo genre is not as niche as in the first days.

    They both cater to a very niche group of players? Fantasy and Science Fiction / Space settings? Yeah... (or maybe you are refering to their gameplay mechanics / style?), maybe their success has nothing to do with that, or every other "clone" game would have reached similar levels of popularity. 

    image
  • MalcanisMalcanis LondonPosts: 3,191Member
    Originally posted by Starpower
    Sounds like you are waking up to the fact you may just have had a too wide definition of a troll/hater expanding the terms to anybody who criticise something you like

     

     

     

     

    Pretty much. Too many people equate "He said something I don't like hearing" with "He said something that means he doesn't like me".

    Give me liberty or give me lasers

  • MalcanisMalcanis LondonPosts: 3,191Member
    Originally posted by ezpz77
    Originally posted by birdycephon
    Originally posted by ezpz77
    Originally posted by birdycephon
    Originally posted by mmoDAD
    People aren't going to complain about a great restaurant.

    Wrong. Some people will always find something to complain about.

     

    There's a big difference between criticism and complaining. The two get mixed up way too often on this site.

    Criticism is usually constructive, but in 90% of the posts I see, there is nothing constructive about it.

     

    I completely disagree. There's validity in criticism without being constructive. Sometimes I can't offer solutions to the problem because I don't know enough about game design and the internal workings of a particular game to do so, but discussing the problems with others who may know more than me is pretty constructive. Even getting a different point of view can be constructive. The problem with this site is that as soon as problems are pointed out, regardless of validity, there is usually a massive bitchfest calling people a fanboy or a hater. The whole thing devolves into who can prove who wrong instead of discussing the actual problems. That's forum PVP for ya I suppose.

     

    Correctly identifying and analysing a problem is still constructive criticism, even if you're not able to suggest a solution.

    Give me liberty or give me lasers

  • tupodawg999tupodawg999 LondonPosts: 724Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by TheScavenger
    Originally posted by pacov
    Originally posted by TheScavenger
    Could have saved a lot of time, hype and money on something else.

    All you said was a personal opinion that I can't argue over but this... I don't know about you but if you played for 4 months to realize that GW2 is starting to lose players its normal, but how can you say you wasted money on a game you only payed $60 for? I am currently at 500 hours and even if I don't play it as often I still got the most out of my dollar for this game.

    I only got a month or two out of it. Got more time out of SWTOR, Skyrim, WoW, EQ2 and such and spent a lot less (sales :P). I got around 120 hours or so, played, for GW2. Which is very little for an MMO. Heck, I played more of GW1 than I did GW2. I liked GW1 a lot more. Of course that is my opinion, but at the 1-2 month mark, toward the end, servers and guilds were dropping like flies. Which is pretty much why I left.

     

    I noticed a HUGE drop after they announced the...legendary items or whatever it was.

     

    120 hours for $60 isn't bad value though. That's one thing about buying MMORPGs. The only ones that are a total waste are the ones where you don't get as much entertainment as you'd get from a single player game.

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