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In its quest to quickly push out a free-to-play model for its flagship MMO, has BioWare burned all p

DeaconXDeaconX Toronto, ONPosts: 3,067Member

Source: http://gamasutra.com/view/feature/183525/the_burning_of_star_wars_the_old_.php 

 

"In its quest to quickly push out a free-to-play model for its flagship MMO, has BioWare burned all players -- both subscribers and the new free crowd? MMO consultant Simon Ludgate takes a look at what the developer has really wrought with its adaptation of the game."

The poor decisions don't stop :/ I'm convinced the people making the decisions on this game, and I'm talking about from conception til now, are pretty out of touch or just clueless and it's pretty sad.

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Why do I write, create, fantasize, dream and daydream about other worlds? Because I hate what humanity does with this one.

BOYCOTTING EA / ORIGIN going forward.

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Comments

  • ignore_meignore_me Apple Valley, CAPosts: 1,987Member
    I think they want it to die so they can work on something else. The sheer amount of bad decisions is starting to be outside of the realm of "oops."

    Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011

  • WinterizerWinterizer Fuzzy Wuzzy CavePosts: 65Member

    Burned?

     

    Last night the server was full and I had to wait to log in.

  • grimalgrimal Stamford, CTPosts: 2,873Member Uncommon

    Very biased article.

    As the first comment stated "I've never played SWTOR and I don't have any opinions on it, but the level of anger and sarcasm in this piece was really totally unnecessary and detracted a lot from the quality of the article"

     

  • ignore_meignore_me Apple Valley, CAPosts: 1,987Member
    Originally posted by grimal

    Very biased article.

    As the first comment stated "I've never played SWTOR and I don't have any opinions on it, but the level of anger and sarcasm in this piece was really totally unnecessary and detracted a lot from the quality of the article"

     

    And yet the information in the article is accurate.

    Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011

  • superniceguysuperniceguy AnchorheadPosts: 2,278Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by grimal

    Very biased article.

    As the first comment stated "I've never played SWTOR and I don't have any opinions on it, but the level of anger and sarcasm in this piece was really totally unnecessary and detracted a lot from the quality of the article"

     

    The article is pretty much the same as the "slippery slope" article done by this site, and pretty much shares the same sentiments as many other people, except the hardcore SWTOR fans willing to chuck as much money as possible at it regardless.

    The F2P system is so limited it does not attract people to play it under F2P, and makes SOEs F2P games very generous. The F2P is just designed to make people have to sub, as opposed to playing a viable but restricted game.

    They even stick Life Day items on the vendor for even subscribers to pay extra for, when should get them for free, plus what the "slippery slop" article was going on about putting gear on the cartel market to bypass the gameplay, and take away the grind, which keeps people playing.

    If they had done an event for Life Day, or put stuff on a vendor to buy with credits or commendations, I probably would have subbed, but when they ask for you to buy the stuff off the market for MORE real life money, it just shows they do not care much about the game, and is going in a bad direction. I sub to a lot of MMOs for christmas for their events, and the fact I do not want to sub to SWTOR is very sad indeed.

  • mmoguy43mmoguy43 , CAPosts: 2,439Member Uncommon

    How long does it take to properly make a F2P model? Didn't they have this written out as a plan B by march?

    They have said that their intent of this model was to let subscribers unsub for a while but still be able to enjoy playing the game. I don't think they have met that goal yet. What they have done is made a longer, heavily restricted trial that has many small purchasable unlocks. That is great news for less devoted causal players but it has cheapened the value for long time subscribers.

    BW has said that this F2P switch has been "great". Another lie? Probably. It seems that is their only way to dig out of a mess.

     

    Does BW want SWTOR to die? Hell no. You don't want your job to just vanish. If anything, they are waiting for their contract to expire.

  • WalterWhiteWalterWhite CardiffPosts: 394Member Uncommon

    Bioware used to be a great company until EA got involved and now the name 'Bioware' has been sullied so much that it must hurt Dr Ray Muzyka and Dr Greg Zeschuk even though they have cashed in and gone their seperate ways, but it must be a bitter pill to swallow all the same.

    SWTOR was the final straw and now many gamers will never touch another one of their games again including myself as all that trust is gone.

    image

  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    It does seem a very decisive and scrooge like f2p system from what I hear, like paying for toolbars and to enter pvp?

    Would put it more down to ea though than bioware.

    It looks bad when you compare it to the systems used by the likes of gw2, ps2 & tsw. Although gw2 was a bit naughty with the Halloween stuff.
  • QuicksandQuicksand Aurora, COPosts: 604Member Uncommon

    Threads like this always puzzle me, how can BIO have burned anyone by offering something free? They didn't GIVE you enough FREE stuff so they somehow wronged you?

     

    The entitlement mentality of this generation is mind blowing.

    www.90and9.net
    www.prophecymma.com

  • superniceguysuperniceguy AnchorheadPosts: 2,278Member Uncommon

    I've just noticed that they have extended the time to sub to get your CCC. It was going to be Nov 15th, then Dec 20th or something, and now Jan 7th.

    I guess not many people are bothering, which makes sense - most people quit because they did not want to pay the sub, so why should they sub just to get their Complimentary Cartel Coins? Then they have no Complementary CC and so do not want to play in F2P, as have no CC, to make the game playable, unless pay some money, which they do not want to do.

    If they got their earned CC, then they more likely would play, and make the game more viable by using their CCC, and if started to like it again, then might buy more CC.

    The way they are doing F2P, just makes F2P pointless, and adding extra unnecessary hurdles for ex-players from even bothering.

  • junzo316junzo316 Raleigh, NCPosts: 1,684Member Uncommon

    I know, I, for one, feel burned.   I would have gladly gone back and paid money in the f2p system if it was set up more like Turbine's.  Keeping the "complimentary cartel" coins til you subbed was also a kick in the head.  Not very "complimentary.  And the restictions on release were horrible.  I uninstalled and will not be looking back.

     

     

  • tiefighter25tiefighter25 Winchester, MAPosts: 937Member

    Honestly at this point Bioware Austin is essentially seperate from Bioware in general.

    What was supposed to be the jewel in the Bioware Crown has been sullied. The head honchos, (the doctors) have been shown the door.

    Bioware Galway (Ireleand), the customer suport center sister location dedicated to SWTOR has been repurposed as EA Galway general customer support.

    Bioware Austin had it's management gutted with only "On Board" management remaining, and EA put an EA suit as a corporate officer of Ausitn. (A guy from EA sports, and ironically, x-fire.)

    The other two Bioware flagship teams, DragonAge and Mass Effect, are still pretty autonoous in Edmonton and Montreal. (Oh Canada) wheras San Fransisco is a muddied "social gaming" and second tier games.

    The Canadian teams are sort of on the hotseat after the DLC/ending of Mass Effect 3 and the general "blah" of Dragon Age 2.

    Bioware Austin on the other hand, is pretty directly controlled by EA in Redmond, California by their proxy studio head in Austin.

    Bioware may survive as a seperate division, but Austin was convereted to EA Austin in the Spring when the descion was made by EA to punish SWTOR's head developers, downsize the staff, NOT release monthly content but rather stockpile it, and of course, covert to their Cartel Shop model. (I can't really call it FTP in good conscience.)

    If DA3 flops, and/or the rumored Mass Effect prequel flops, or EA itself undergoes a buyout (which is not outside the realm of possability) then your concern for Bioware being anything more then a trademarked logo would be more justified.

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member

    I don't feel burned, but I don't feel like I need to play the game either. The F2P options did not make the game more attractive. Comparing to TSW's B2P play transition, SWToR's transition was just bad.

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • superniceguysuperniceguy AnchorheadPosts: 2,278Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Quicksand

    Threads like this always puzzle me, how can BIO have burned anyone by offering something free? They didn't GIVE you enough FREE stuff so they somehow wronged you?

     

    The entitlement mentality of this generation is mind blowing.

    What is FREE? Nothing

    People who sub have to pay a $15 fee per month, and those playing F2P pay to unlock stuff and buy stuff from the store, including people subbing, who have to pay MORE!

    What ihe article is meaning is that Bioware have burned people from even playing. People who want to play it under F2P will not play it unless are millionaires, and them adding high end gear in the shop where any player can now just buy the stuff with no effort at all and not even play the game. This makes the current players feel burned as they spent ages playing the game to get the stuff, but now new players can get the stuff without effort, by giving EA money.  Personally to me that takes away the little game play SWTOR offers, and whipping out your credit card to get the stuff is not rewarding, but then others may be OK and spend the money, and put no time or effort in getting it, which in effect is cheating, and if this kind of behaviour succeeds then the future of games is not very bright, as it destroys the purpose and fun of games.

  • apocolusterapocoluster newport news, VAPosts: 1,321Member Uncommon

      I dont find the F2P all that restrictive..personally.    Then again I dont PVP, I dont raid, I dont do FPs...I can enjoy the ships 3 times a week and play the Single Player story 8 times..err 7 I completed the first when I was a subscriber. 

     

     I guess its a matter of what you plan on doing in game...Im not and never will be a long term player.  Im a locust at best..so this F2P is pretty much good 2 go for me.  Im pretty much g2g on all the systems of F2P..I come...i grind to 50 ( or whatever) and I go on to another game/

    No matter how cynical you become, its never enough to keep up - Lily Tomlin

  • apocolusterapocoluster newport news, VAPosts: 1,321Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by superniceguy
    Originally posted by Quicksand

    Threads like this always puzzle me, how can BIO have burned anyone by offering something free? They didn't GIVE you enough FREE stuff so they somehow wronged you?

     

    The entitlement mentality of this generation is mind blowing.

    What is FREE? Nothing

    People who sub have to pay a $15 fee per month, and those playing F2P pay to unlock stuff and buy stuff from the store, including people subbing, who have to pay MORE!

    What ihe article is meaning is that Bioware have burned people from even playing. People who want to play it under F2P will not play it unless are millionaires, and them adding high end gear in the shop where any player can now just buy the stuff with no effort at all and not even play the game. This makes the current players feel burned as they spent ages playing the game to get the stuff, but now new players can get the stuff without effort, by giving EA money.  Personally to me that takes away the little game play SWTOR offers, and whipping out your credit card to get the stuff is not rewarding, but then others may be OK and spend the money, and put no time or effort in getting it, which in effect is cheating, and if this kind of behaviour succeeds then the future of games is not very bright, as it destroys the purpose and fun of games.

    Im totally free :)  but as Ive said..im not looking for the fable mmo home...im just a tourist.

     

    *edit* oh wait..im in $75 from box sale and one month of sub...so thats what EA gets from me..but that's it.

    No matter how cynical you become, its never enough to keep up - Lily Tomlin

  • FrodoFraginsFrodoFragins Manchester, NHPosts: 2,928Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by superniceguy

    The F2P system is so limited it does not attract people to play it under F2P, and makes SOEs F2P games very generous. The F2P is just designed to make people have to sub, as opposed to playing a viable but restricted game.

    At this point, the only real major issue with their F2P system is having to pay to get access to all of the quest rewards.  You can experience the stories of all of the classes for free all the way to the level cap.  That's the best content in the game for free.

  • superniceguysuperniceguy AnchorheadPosts: 2,278Member Uncommon

    One thing I am waiting on is the ability to purchase more char slots, so I can play through more stories, and I am not creating another account, as want the chars on same account for the Legacy system, and considering they said it is coming, creating more accounts is just a waste of time.

    In tomorrows patch?

    The one thing that makes sense to charge for they do not. As an  ex player I can not create any more chars

    They must be delaying this, as the way to get around this is to sub, and then you can create more.

  • DeaconXDeaconX Toronto, ONPosts: 3,067Member
    Originally posted by Quicksand

    Threads like this always puzzle me, how can BIO have burned anyone by offering something free? They didn't GIVE you enough FREE stuff so they somehow wronged you?

     

    The entitlement mentality of this generation is mind blowing.

    You misunderstand.  Personally, I couldn't care less about 'free'.  I'd happily pay a monthly sub for a QUALITY game.  SWTOR may have players but it doesn't really make it an amazing game - not anywhere near the game I'm fairly certain most Star Wars fans wanted it to be, anyway.

     

    For me, it's just a disappointment.  They had all the ingredients to make something truly special.  The only thing they did well, was the multiplayer storytelling. Aside from that, I'd say SWTOR missed the mark.

     

    It's all those poor design decisions, then the further bad decisions such as HOW they chose to implement the F2P stuff that just disappoints.

     

    I can't help but wonder what could have been, if the money and resources were given to 'the right' people.

    image

    Why do I write, create, fantasize, dream and daydream about other worlds? Because I hate what humanity does with this one.

    BOYCOTTING EA / ORIGIN going forward.

  • exwinexwin Oak Ridge, TNPosts: 221Member

    While I'm not saying I agree with all the decisions that were made concerning SWToR, nor do I currently play it, I did play it and enjoyed it very much.

    I've payed alot more for alot less as far as mmo's go. My only real complaint is the lack of end game content. After you do your dailies and make it through all the class stories, you run out of stuff to do.

    I loved the companions, you really do feel like a sith badass at the end of the story. I have mostly fond memories of the game.

    Inversely, I would rather not level another charactor, which is why I don't stil play it.

    If BW were to pop out another mmo, I would give it a look.

  • ShazkneeShazknee IshøjPosts: 81Member
    Originally posted by Quicksand

    Threads like this always puzzle me, how can BIO have burned anyone by offering something free? They didn't GIVE you enough FREE stuff so they somehow wronged you?

     

    The entitlement mentality of this generation is mind blowing.

     

    It's pretty simple.

     

    when you fork out overprice for a collector's edition, only to find out that you bought an unfinished game, with no chance of a refund, you'll feel pretty screwed over, ofcourse the overwhelming "VIP" area and the stuffed vendor with several pages of vanity items were obviously worth the price! heck atleast I got a CD with some crap music, that they offered for free download a few days later, awesome!

     

    Then they have the nerve to make a "f2p", spam you with e-mails about cartel points if you subscribe btw.

    If someone walked up to me irl, and told me I could have a turd in the face FOR FREE!!!!!11 I'd tell him to sod off, and probably warn others about him aswell.

     

    I paid a huge amount of money to pay an completely unfinished game for... 9 days, it's the most expensive gaming experience ever, heck I played Warhammer for 5 months, and that game was god awfull, even Conan kept me playing for longer.

     

    Sure, I choose to buy the game, and the noone forced me to do so, but I'm never touching any Bioware stuff again, and I succefully kept several friends from buying the game, but in the end, Bioware burned of a fairly loyal customer, I honestly hope that their game and company will crash and burn, people who run companies, who's sole purpose if to fool you into buying something that arent what you were lead to belive it is, does not have my sympathy whatsoever, and I'll honestly put on a tiny smile the day that POS company goes down the toilet.

     

    And no, I'm not gonna care what thoose desperate Bioware employees have to respond, if I were you I'd jump ship before it sinks.

     

  • AG-VukAG-Vuk Phoenix, AZPosts: 823Member Uncommon

    Soooooooooo, the point of the article is ? 

     

    That it's biased and meant to bash EA ? It succeeds.

    Or perhaps the author misses the point ?

    Perhaps EA would rather have you as a sub. Often people criticize a game for certain aspects and don't care for others. Some people love and enjoy pure PvE, some PvP. EA is basically saying we can accomadate those that fall in that category. How about the casual player, hey we can do something there too. Ulitmately, they'd rather have you pay a sub then cherry pick what you'll play. It's more geared for players that are not really commited , but want to explore. It really isn't a true F2P , in case you missed that part. It's an extensive trial.

    P.S : I don't feel burned. If I were a non-commited person who expected the game on a platter and free run through every aspect of the game as some F2P do then , probably I would. I haven't seen indications of P2W , yet , but there are signs and it concerns me, as in other F2P.

    image
  • ThebigbopperThebigbopper melbournePosts: 114Member

     Just the other day on The Harbinger server i saw 4 instances of fleet and normally there is 2 or 3 in peak times. A lot of people seem to be happy playing it as it is now.  The article is highly biased and pathetic enough that he offers himself to save the game basically.

     SWTOR did some good things and some bad ones but did bring some innovations. Companions is one of the best things ever done on an MMO, the story is brilliant and modding equipment is pretty decent too. The biggest let down as far as i am concerned is space on rails, that was just bullshit!

     Some of the things he says are just plain incorrect but thats explained in the comments on his site.

     You get to play the story and being able to do that without paying is very generous as far as i am concerned.......anything else is a real bonus.....

     

  • Fly666monkeyFly666monkey Albuqurque, NMPosts: 146Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by AG-Vuk

    Soooooooooo, the point of the article is ? 

     

    That it's biased and meant to bash EA ? It succeeds.

    Or perhaps the author misses the point ?

    Perhaps EA would rather have you as a sub. 

    If getting people to sub to play the game had been working for them, they would not have gone F2P in the first place.

     It's an extensive trial.

    Considering that the new F2P system is even MORE restrictive than the trial was, with the sole exception of being able to do story content all the way to 50, I think even calling it a trial is being genrous.

     

  • QuicksandQuicksand Aurora, COPosts: 604Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by DeaconX
    Originally posted by Quicksand

    Threads like this always puzzle me, how can BIO have burned anyone by offering something free? They didn't GIVE you enough FREE stuff so they somehow wronged you?

     

    The entitlement mentality of this generation is mind blowing.

    You misunderstand.  Personally, I couldn't care less about 'free'.  I'd happily pay a monthly sub for a QUALITY game.  SWTOR may have players but it doesn't really make it an amazing game - not anywhere near the game I'm fairly certain most Star Wars fans wanted it to be, anyway.

     

    For me, it's just a disappointment.  They had all the ingredients to make something truly special.  The only thing they did well, was the multiplayer storytelling. Aside from that, I'd say SWTOR missed the mark.

     

    It's all those poor design decisions, then the further bad decisions such as HOW they chose to implement the F2P stuff that just disappoints.

     

    I can't help but wonder what could have been, if the money and resources were given to 'the right' people.

    I misunderstood nothing. The title of the thread suggest that BIOs free offering somehow burned players. I simple pointed out the fact that statements like that puzzle me. I have a current sub, the game plays great for me, I enjoy it and have no complaints. 

     

    My wife does not sub anymore, her account is a free account. The very idea that they are not offering anything free as another reply said is blind to the truth. They may not offer what you want free, but if you can log in without paying anything (my wife can), thats free, if you can complete a quest without paying anything (my wife can), thats free.

     

    The sub model they currently have is no different than any other MMO. Thus, they have not burned anyone, their free option does not in any way force anyone to buy anything in order to play their game, thus, burned no one.

     

    The only people that think BIO is somehow required to GIVE them something for FREE is nothing more than the intitlement mentallity that is infecting our entire world. No one owes you anything, if you dont like the free options you have in this game then don't play it, BIO has in no way burned you because you don't want to take advantage of a free option they gave you (no matter how worthless you may find that option)

     

    If you want more hotbars then sub to their game, they are not required to GIVE them to you for FREE. Want to complete a quest thats not part of their free option? then sub to their game, they are not required to GIVE it to you for FREE.

     

    If you don't want to sub to the game, then don't, you are not required to. see how that works, they can't make you buy their product, you can't make them give it to you for free. Thats how it should be. You have not wronged them by not subbing to their game, its your choice. They have not wronged or burned you for not giving you something for FREE. Its their choice.

    www.90and9.net
    www.prophecymma.com

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