Originally posted by Fion It doesn't have open world PvP, thats true. They clearly decided against that but certainly some folks prefer it. But as far as structured team tournament PvP, there is no competition IMHO. I also think their server vs server PvP is the current best, though it also needs some serious attention and fixes.
The arena pvp is quite okay and the server vs server is decent, it's mostly big zergs and clusterfucks which they encourage. The open world pvp is something I'd really like to have, not being able to talk to your enemies is damn boring imo. The fact that you cannot even see their name is just terrible imo.
Maybe his opinion is based on his own experiences instead of what others have to say about it, something i can advise more then half the posters in this thread.
My opinion is based on my own experience having played both games. GW2 has the most mindless, boring, near pointless PvP in any MMO on the market today.
I like how the link you posted has like 5 comments. Shows how great that games pvp is...
Terms seem to be splashed around a bit.IF you mean the small group 15 minute fights....I have no experience or interest.
IF you mean WvW.That I have an interest in and opinion.WvW in GW2 is more like a basketball game than warfare. Just drink 5 Red Bull's and run around in a zerg 24/7 taking the same places over and over and over again as the enemy faction takes thaem back and so you retake...until you drop.
I wouldn't claim this game has the `best` pvp but so far i enjoyed pvping more on my d/d s/d ele more than my feral/resto druid/ret pally on wow. By nature im lazy to grind gears(getting farmed/healing clueless noobs in bgs jst to get enough honor to buy gear). Wouldn't say im good at pvp though, what i meant is that even if i lost in spvp i know that i screw something up rather than the reason being me having not enough resilience when a war/bm hunter blowed a major cd lol.
Cba to talk bout wvw cos im not interested in it xD, but so far what i hated in this game is that they have no duelling.. Even wow has duel to pass time while waiting for arena q's to pop up.
pvp in this game is just a mindless 5 man zerg for 1 of 3 points. it doesn't matter what build or character you have, it matters if you can out number the opposing factions and keep the nodes.
on top of that, there is no progression or accomplishment. gw2 offers no rewards whatsoever for being "good"
i quit after a week when the game came out because of the above points. if there is nothing to accomplish, what is the point of playing? especially when it all boils down to zerging.
I'm going to have to assume that these 'people' you are referring to, are people who actually like skill-based PvP.
Zerging, in general, doesn't work very well against smarter opponents. That's the default, heard-mentallity way of doing things. If you look at WvW, for example, zerging is often the worst method of capturing objectives. You can capture any objective with a coordinated 5-10 man team. Zergs usually just distract people, and always put a giant target over whatever you're attacking (which usually attracts defenders, or the other invading server).
As for sPvP.. all I can say is Bunker Builds, and Mesmer Portals. Good luck trying to zerg a decent group who is constantly back capping where you're not. I've even been in games where we just let the zerg try and focus down our bunker & ignore them, or just have a necro toying with the zerg by AoEing them down from a distance.
I'm not saying population doesn't matter, because it does, but 'zerging' as a tactic usually says more about the player than it does about the game.
aesperus you can only take objectives that are smaller than those towers with a 5-10 man team. If more than 5 people hits the door you will get the sword mark and if the enemy team know what they are doing they can easily keep you from taking it with a really small force thus making zerging the viable way. You get same reward when you take stuff alone or with a zerg and it's a ton easier.
Even if Zerging was not happening and we pretend for a moment that a supposedly pvp centric game needs absolutely no casual pvper player base at all. Even if we make those two incorrect assumptions you still have a pvp system built around roaming, bunkers, conditions, crits and really nothing else. The game has a lack of debth in the builds department, and if it were not so dps lopsided zerging wouldnt come up as an issue in the first place.
Also to keep a stable of players interested in your pvp and you do not have any true world pvp, then the pvp you do have has to be amazing. On top of all that, that maps are god awful tiny 4x4 boxes.
Even if Zerging was not happening and we pretend for a moment that a supposedly pvp centric game needs absolutely no casual pvper player base at all. Even if we make those two incorrect assumptions you still have a pvp system built around roaming, bunkers, conditions, crits and really nothing else. The game has a lack of debth in the builds department, and if it were not so dps lopsided zerging wouldnt come up as an issue in the first place.
Also to keep a stable of players interested in your pvp and you do not have any true world pvp, then the pvp you do have has to be amazing. On top of all that, that maps are god awful tiny 4x4 boxes.
Zerging is not happing in sPvP. People calling zerg in sPvP are just clueless.
Thing you people need to understand is that the more choices you give, the more imbalanced the game will be. Plain and simple. You can't have a themepark MMO that gives you freedom of choices and balance, it won't happen. If you want to give freedom of choices when it comes to building your character, you need to give everything to everyone, something we might never see in a themepark MMO.
About the maps, sure they seem small and we don't have a lot of choices, but when compared to WoW for example, the maps are way better.
Sure GW2 isnt the BEST MMO PvP ever created, but it' surely better than 99% of other MMO out there and with the no gear grind for sPvP and the lack of holy trinity, its even better.
aesperus you can only take objectives that are smaller than those towers with a 5-10 man team. If more than 5 people hits the door you will get the sword mark and if the enemy team know what they are doing they can easily keep you from taking it with a really small force thus making zerging the viable way. You get same reward when you take stuff alone or with a zerg and it's a ton easier.
WvW is just a big meaningless clusterfuck.
This right here.
WvW is an absolute failure. It's a zerg-inducing mess, and meaningless to the gameworld.
Now I know why some people don't like WvW. They are joining the zerg! Find a good guild with an active presence in WvW, with at least one commander, on a server with a dedicated WvW player base and you'll have WORLDS more fun than just joining the zerg, not getting in a group and just doing shit randomly as the zerg does.
Zerging is about as fun as it was in DAoC, though in GW2 it is even 'less' useful.
2 Thing you people need to understand is that the more choices you give, the more imbalanced the game will be.
3 You can't have a themepark MMO that gives you freedom of choices and balance
4 About the maps, sure they seem small and we don't have a lot of choices, but when compared to WoW for example, the maps are way better.
5 Sure GW2 isnt the BEST MMO PvP ever created, but it' surely better than 99% of other MMO out there and with the no gear grind for sPvP and the lack of holy trinity, its even better.
What do you mean, you people?
Of course more choices are harder to balance that doesnt meat two choices are better than 20. Point 3 is just make believe or a talking point one, dont know which. 4. so basically you agree that the maps suck and in the same sentance try con convice people that they are better than the WOW battleground or AV maps., give me a break the GW2 maps barely have the interest level of Warsong Gulch and are about as small.
99% is aiming WAY too high. It might be better than most ftp asian grinders, but its not better than EVE, its not better than WOW, TERA or Secret World, it IS better than TOR but thats not saying alot. Its ok towards a certain audience but its not all that.
2 Thing you people need to understand is that the more choices you give, the more imbalanced the game will be.
3 You can't have a themepark MMO that gives you freedom of choices and balance
4 About the maps, sure they seem small and we don't have a lot of choices, but when compared to WoW for example, the maps are way better.
5 Sure GW2 isnt the BEST MMO PvP ever created, but it' surely better than 99% of other MMO out there and with the no gear grind for sPvP and the lack of holy trinity, its even better.
What do you mean, you people?
Of course more choices are harder to balance that doesnt meat two choices are better than 20. Point 3 is just make believe or a talking point one, dont know which. 4. so basically you agree that the maps suck and in the same sentance try con convice people that they are better than the WOW battleground or AV maps., give me a break the GW2 maps barely have the interest level of Warsong Gulch and are about as small.
99% is aiming WAY too high. It might be better than most ftp asian grinders, but its not better than EVE, its not better than WOW, TERA or Secret World, it IS better than TOR but thats not saying alot. Its ok towards a certain audience but its not all that.
2 Thing you people need to understand is that the more choices you give, the more imbalanced the game will be.
3 You can't have a themepark MMO that gives you freedom of choices and balance
4 About the maps, sure they seem small and we don't have a lot of choices, but when compared to WoW for example, the maps are way better.
5 Sure GW2 isnt the BEST MMO PvP ever created, but it' surely better than 99% of other MMO out there and with the no gear grind for sPvP and the lack of holy trinity, its even better.
What do you mean, you people?
Of course more choices are harder to balance that doesnt meat two choices are better than 20. Point 3 is just make believe or a talking point one, dont know which. 4. so basically you agree that the maps suck and in the same sentance try con convice people that they are better than the WOW battleground or AV maps., give me a break the GW2 maps barely have the interest level of Warsong Gulch and are about as small.
99% is aiming WAY too high. It might be better than most ftp asian grinders, but its not better than EVE, its not better than WOW, TERA or Secret World, it IS better than TOR but thats not saying alot. Its ok towards a certain audience but its not all that.
I mean people who thinks that having freedom of choices with balanced PvP in themepark MMO will happen. If you want balance PvP in a themepark MMO yes 2 choices will always be better than 20. The point of having 20 choices is just useless when only 2 or 3 choices are viable for PvP. PvE wise its another story.
About the maps, I'm not a big fan of every map ill agree with this, but some are good IMO. I'm not trying to convice anyone that every map is better than WoW's one, but the good maps are better than what WoW's has to offer. WSG is like the only decent map to play on and its CTF, a game mode we don't have yet in GW2 so we don't even know how the CTF maps will be in GW2. Everything else is just trash in WoW, expect for AV before its was a rush fest. Look at the arena maps in WoW, If you think those are good maps, I'll just laugh. GW2 maps are WAY better than WoW's arena maps.
99% is not aiming too high at all. I couldn't tell about EvE because I've never really played the PvP, but I doubt we can compare because they don't play the same way at all. WoW PvP is the most terrible ever atm, 45min 3v3 with nearly infinite mana and HP goes back from 1k to 300k hp in like 2 sec. If you think this is good PvP, then I don't know what else to say than LOL. TERA could have been good, I'll give you this and TSW please this must be a joke... You clearly doesn't like Gw2 and its okay, but to say those games are better in PvP is nonsense to me.
Now I know why some people don't like WvW. They are joining the zerg! Find a good guild with an active presence in WvW, with at least one commander, on a server with a dedicated WvW player base and you'll have WORLDS more fun than just joining the zerg, not getting in a group and just doing shit randomly as the zerg does.
Zerging is about as fun as it was in DAoC, though in GW2 it is even 'less' useful.
Our guild got ~40 players on every night able to make organized groups for WVW, this includes 5+ commanders so thank you but I know all of this already. Me and my friends actually ran a 'squad' in this guild taking shit but it was damn pointless and boring when you stood there hitting a door with your 5 man group then a zerg comes and stomp you in 2 red sec and the door is whole again.
99% is not aiming too high at all. I couldn't tell about EvE because I've never really played the PvP, but I doubt we can compare because they don't play the same way at all. WoW PvP is the most terrible ever atm, 45min 3v3 with nearly infinite mana and HP goes back from 1k to 300k hp in like 2 sec. If you think this is good PvP, then I don't know what else to say than LOL. TERA could have been good, I'll give you this and TSW please this must be a joke... You clearly doesn't like Gw2 and its okay, but to say those games are better in PvP is nonsense to me.
Are they more balanced or better at pvp of course not well except EVE, EVE blows GW2 out of the water, TSW doesn't even have pvp, or any worth playing, but as far as class diversity, its no contest. My point however was not how good the pvp was but how much better the overall games were since people had more options.All the balance in the world wont make a dull lifeless game worth playing, there is just no diversity or life int he pvp. And 99 percent is way too high, GW2 is ok but its nowhere near that good. There are plenty of other games that have massively better pvp than GW2 most of them older some of them newer, but I was comparing to the current generation of games, but GW2 has no business comparing itself to AC, DOAC, UO, L2 and certainly will never be an Esport, not one that anyone will play enough to matter.
Now I know why some people don't like WvW. They are joining the zerg! Find a good guild with an active presence in WvW, with at least one commander, on a server with a dedicated WvW player base and you'll have WORLDS more fun than just joining the zerg, not getting in a group and just doing shit randomly as the zerg does.
Zerging is about as fun as it was in DAoC, though in GW2 it is even 'less' useful.
Our guild got ~40 players on every night able to make organized groups for WVW, this includes 5+ commanders so thank you but I know all of this already. Me and my friends actually ran a 'squad' in this guild taking shit but it was damn pointless and boring when you stood there hitting a door with your 5 man group then a zerg comes and stomp you in 2 red sec and the door is whole again.
A siege ram costs 30 supply and a catapult 50. Please stop with the BS, if you had an organised group of 5 or 6 you would be rushing with siege equipment not hitting the door.
Now I know why some people don't like WvW. They are joining the zerg! Find a good guild with an active presence in WvW, with at least one commander, on a server with a dedicated WvW player base and you'll have WORLDS more fun than just joining the zerg, not getting in a group and just doing shit randomly as the zerg does.
Zerging is about as fun as it was in DAoC, though in GW2 it is even 'less' useful.
Our guild got ~40 players on every night able to make organized groups for WVW, this includes 5+ commanders so thank you but I know all of this already. Me and my friends actually ran a 'squad' in this guild taking shit but it was damn pointless and boring when you stood there hitting a door with your 5 man group then a zerg comes and stomp you in 2 red sec and the door is whole again.
A siege ram costs 30 supply and a catapult 50. Please stop with the BS, if you had an organised group of 5 or 6 you would be rushing with siege equipment not hitting the door.
Did I ever state we weren't using siege equipment? How about you pipe down and stop making shit up.
A siege ram costs 30 supply and a catapult 50. Please stop with the BS, if you had an organised group of 5 or 6 you would be rushing with siege equipment not hitting the door.
Did I ever state we weren't using siege equipment? How about you pipe down and stop making shit up.
It doesn't take ages to down a door, even reinforced, if you have siege equipment. If you're smart and know to use your map, you will have taken the keep before the "zerg" arrives.
We took keeps with less than 10 guildies, even though there were two "zergs", one from each enemy, running around.
Respect, walk, what did you say? Respect, walk Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me? - PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
Comments
The arena pvp is quite okay and the server vs server is decent, it's mostly big zergs and clusterfucks which they encourage. The open world pvp is something I'd really like to have, not being able to talk to your enemies is damn boring imo. The fact that you cannot even see their name is just terrible imo.
The games in beta lol.
I started laughing after seeing the words Gw2 and good................. Alot of delusional ppl.
Terms seem to be splashed around a bit.IF you mean the small group 15 minute fights....I have no experience or interest.
IF you mean WvW.That I have an interest in and opinion.WvW in GW2 is more like a basketball game than warfare. Just drink 5 Red Bull's and run around in a zerg 24/7 taking the same places over and over and over again as the enemy faction takes thaem back and so you retake...until you drop.
sounds like great fun...huh ?
I wouldn't claim this game has the `best` pvp but so far i enjoyed pvping more on my d/d s/d ele more than my feral/resto druid/ret pally on wow. By nature im lazy to grind gears(getting farmed/healing clueless noobs in bgs jst to get enough honor to buy gear). Wouldn't say im good at pvp though, what i meant is that even if i lost in spvp i know that i screw something up rather than the reason being me having not enough resilience when a war/bm hunter blowed a major cd lol.
Cba to talk bout wvw cos im not interested in it xD, but so far what i hated in this game is that they have no duelling.. Even wow has duel to pass time while waiting for arena q's to pop up.
I'm going to have to assume that these 'people' you are referring to, are people who actually like skill-based PvP.
Zerging, in general, doesn't work very well against smarter opponents. That's the default, heard-mentallity way of doing things. If you look at WvW, for example, zerging is often the worst method of capturing objectives. You can capture any objective with a coordinated 5-10 man team. Zergs usually just distract people, and always put a giant target over whatever you're attacking (which usually attracts defenders, or the other invading server).
As for sPvP.. all I can say is Bunker Builds, and Mesmer Portals. Good luck trying to zerg a decent group who is constantly back capping where you're not. I've even been in games where we just let the zerg try and focus down our bunker & ignore them, or just have a necro toying with the zerg by AoEing them down from a distance.
I'm not saying population doesn't matter, because it does, but 'zerging' as a tactic usually says more about the player than it does about the game.
aesperus you can only take objectives that are smaller than those towers with a 5-10 man team. If more than 5 people hits the door you will get the sword mark and if the enemy team know what they are doing they can easily keep you from taking it with a really small force thus making zerging the viable way. You get same reward when you take stuff alone or with a zerg and it's a ton easier.
WvW is just a big meaningless clusterfuck.
Even if Zerging was not happening and we pretend for a moment that a supposedly pvp centric game needs absolutely no casual pvper player base at all. Even if we make those two incorrect assumptions you still have a pvp system built around roaming, bunkers, conditions, crits and really nothing else. The game has a lack of debth in the builds department, and if it were not so dps lopsided zerging wouldnt come up as an issue in the first place.
Also to keep a stable of players interested in your pvp and you do not have any true world pvp, then the pvp you do have has to be amazing. On top of all that, that maps are god awful tiny 4x4 boxes.
Zerging is not happing in sPvP. People calling zerg in sPvP are just clueless.
Thing you people need to understand is that the more choices you give, the more imbalanced the game will be. Plain and simple. You can't have a themepark MMO that gives you freedom of choices and balance, it won't happen. If you want to give freedom of choices when it comes to building your character, you need to give everything to everyone, something we might never see in a themepark MMO.
About the maps, sure they seem small and we don't have a lot of choices, but when compared to WoW for example, the maps are way better.
Sure GW2 isnt the BEST MMO PvP ever created, but it' surely better than 99% of other MMO out there and with the no gear grind for sPvP and the lack of holy trinity, its even better.
This right here.
WvW is an absolute failure. It's a zerg-inducing mess, and meaningless to the gameworld.
Hell hath no fury like an MMORPG player scorned.
Now I know why some people don't like WvW. They are joining the zerg! Find a good guild with an active presence in WvW, with at least one commander, on a server with a dedicated WvW player base and you'll have WORLDS more fun than just joining the zerg, not getting in a group and just doing shit randomly as the zerg does.
Zerging is about as fun as it was in DAoC, though in GW2 it is even 'less' useful.
What do you mean, you people?
Of course more choices are harder to balance that doesnt meat two choices are better than 20. Point 3 is just make believe or a talking point one, dont know which. 4. so basically you agree that the maps suck and in the same sentance try con convice people that they are better than the WOW battleground or AV maps., give me a break the GW2 maps barely have the interest level of Warsong Gulch and are about as small.
99% is aiming WAY too high. It might be better than most ftp asian grinders, but its not better than EVE, its not better than WOW, TERA or Secret World, it IS better than TOR but thats not saying alot. Its ok towards a certain audience but its not all that.
why do people claim this game is best for pvp? Yeah It's not, that's opinion and don't let it get to you.
TSW and TERA better PvP? LOL Okay.
I've played both. They are not better.
I mean people who thinks that having freedom of choices with balanced PvP in themepark MMO will happen. If you want balance PvP in a themepark MMO yes 2 choices will always be better than 20. The point of having 20 choices is just useless when only 2 or 3 choices are viable for PvP. PvE wise its another story.
About the maps, I'm not a big fan of every map ill agree with this, but some are good IMO. I'm not trying to convice anyone that every map is better than WoW's one, but the good maps are better than what WoW's has to offer. WSG is like the only decent map to play on and its CTF, a game mode we don't have yet in GW2 so we don't even know how the CTF maps will be in GW2. Everything else is just trash in WoW, expect for AV before its was a rush fest. Look at the arena maps in WoW, If you think those are good maps, I'll just laugh. GW2 maps are WAY better than WoW's arena maps.
99% is not aiming too high at all. I couldn't tell about EvE because I've never really played the PvP, but I doubt we can compare because they don't play the same way at all. WoW PvP is the most terrible ever atm, 45min 3v3 with nearly infinite mana and HP goes back from 1k to 300k hp in like 2 sec. If you think this is good PvP, then I don't know what else to say than LOL. TERA could have been good, I'll give you this and TSW please this must be a joke... You clearly doesn't like Gw2 and its okay, but to say those games are better in PvP is nonsense to me.
Funny thing is, GW1 was one of the most well balanced PvP I've seen. I guess we don't have the same definition of balance.
Our guild got ~40 players on every night able to make organized groups for WVW, this includes 5+ commanders so thank you but I know all of this already. Me and my friends actually ran a 'squad' in this guild taking shit but it was damn pointless and boring when you stood there hitting a door with your 5 man group then a zerg comes and stomp you in 2 red sec and the door is whole again.
Are they more balanced or better at pvp of course not well except EVE, EVE blows GW2 out of the water, TSW doesn't even have pvp, or any worth playing, but as far as class diversity, its no contest. My point however was not how good the pvp was but how much better the overall games were since people had more options.All the balance in the world wont make a dull lifeless game worth playing, there is just no diversity or life int he pvp. And 99 percent is way too high, GW2 is ok but its nowhere near that good. There are plenty of other games that have massively better pvp than GW2 most of them older some of them newer, but I was comparing to the current generation of games, but GW2 has no business comparing itself to AC, DOAC, UO, L2 and certainly will never be an Esport, not one that anyone will play enough to matter.
A siege ram costs 30 supply and a catapult 50. Please stop with the BS, if you had an organised group of 5 or 6 you would be rushing with siege equipment not hitting the door.
It wasn't just balanced it had massive build diversity, something sorely lacking in GW2.
Did I ever state we weren't using siege equipment? How about you pipe down and stop making shit up.
It doesn't take ages to down a door, even reinforced, if you have siege equipment. If you're smart and know to use your map, you will have taken the keep before the "zerg" arrives.
We took keeps with less than 10 guildies, even though there were two "zergs", one from each enemy, running around.
Respect, walk
Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me?
- PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023