Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Fuzzy Avatars Solved! Please re-upload your avatar if it was fuzzy!

The sober approach...

2»

Comments

  • JKwervoJKwervo N. Las Vegas, NVPosts: 126Member
    I've played it, and I agree with him regarding FPS issues.
  • WizardryWizardry Ontario, CanadaPosts: 8,464Member Uncommon

    I feel Khartelli got a lot right,especially the single player game theme that most every game is doing.That is the underlying fault of devs,they simply do not understand how to go outside the box of single player game design.

    What i am skeptical about is the "immersion" part,i do not feel immersed in ANY game that has me constantly looking on the map for green markers.That is exactly all you do in this game aside from flashpoints ,but again that is not a MMO factor,just a small instance ,again something i don't like in my games.

    I have played a LOT of SWTOR and still play from time to time,but i don't have enough to go on to really compare it to GW2.

    I do know there is a HUGE difference between Bioware and Anet.Anet is the most arrogant developer i have seen in my entire life of gaming,yes not even Blizzard comes close.Bioware is more down to earth and respectful.

    We really do not know all the ins and outs,Bioware may have had very little control over the design,it might have been an EA push right from day 1.They wouldn't tell us anyhow,the industry needs to kiss each others ass to keep getting employment and keep the money train on  rails.

    Personally if i had a choice i would play SWTOR before GW2.Well so happens i do have a choice and i do play SWTOR.

    Since the there is this new wave of F2p ,i now rate games on weather i woudl pay or not.Neither SWTOR nor GW2 would get a sub fee from me.That is how i rate AAA from AA gaming.Any game i would pay a sub fee i would rate a AAA game.After that i rate games based on Browser based or just plain crap.

    right now i only sub to FFXI and EQ2.I play several games for free because that is really all they are worth to me.

     


    Samoan Diamond

  • JKwervoJKwervo N. Las Vegas, NVPosts: 126Member
    That's funny. In my experience, I found Bioware to be profoundly more arrogant than ANY developer I've ever dealt with.
  • Camaro68Camaro68 Daytona, FLPosts: 50Member
    Originally posted by Wizardry

    I feel Khartelli got a lot right,especially the single player game theme that most every game is doing.That is the underlying fault of devs,they simply do not understand how to go outside the box of single player game design.

    What i am skeptical about is the "immersion" part,i do not feel immersed in ANY game that has me constantly looking on the map for green markers.That is exactly all you do in this game aside from flashpoints ,but again that is not a MMO factor,just a small instance ,again something i don't like in my games.

    I have played a LOT of SWTOR and still play from time to time,but i don't have enough to go on to really compare it to GW2.

    I do know there is a HUGE difference between Bioware and Anet.Anet is the most arrogant developer i have seen in my entire life of gaming,yes not even Blizzard comes close.Bioware is more down to earth and respectful.

    We really do not know all the ins and outs,Bioware may have had very little control over the design,it might have been an EA push right from day 1.They wouldn't tell us anyhow,the industry needs to kiss each others ass to keep getting employment and keep the money train on  rails.

    Personally if i had a choice i would play SWTOR before GW2.Well so happens i do have a choice and i do play SWTOR.

    Since the there is this new wave of F2p ,i now rate games on weather i woudl pay or not.Neither SWTOR nor GW2 would get a sub fee from me.That is how i rate AAA from AA gaming.Any game i would pay a sub fee i would rate a AAA game.After that i rate games based on Browser based or just plain crap.

    right now i only sub to FFXI and EQ2.I play several games for free because that is really all they are worth to me.

     

    I tried EQ2 a few times over the years and couldn't get into it until a couple years ago.  When I did, I found it to be the closest to what alot of MMO players say they want.  Tons of character depth and customization, a huge world, tons of backstory, a pretty neat tradeskill system, personalized housing, etc.

    So the last 2 MMO's I've really enjoyed have been EQ2 and SWTOR--ironically they both run like dogs(or did I haven't played EQ2 since I upgraded)--but neither wound being viewed as successful.

  • eddieg50eddieg50 Tolland, CTPosts: 1,614Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Meridion

    Wow...

    I reinstalled it, free to play preferred because I spent my 30 days a year ago...

    It's hard to describe.

    I can turn the pace down now as this game is a sidekick and will stay a sidekick for me. 

    But as I went back to it, I could remember the marketing, the hype and the launch a lot clearer than last december. And one thing struck me in the face like a truck. Almost like "willing suspension of disbelif" must be a drug that numbs the brain when you're excited for a game launch...

    Star Wars: The Old Republic is - from a technical standpoint - a wreck. 

    I purchased a new PC during the year, I7, GTX680, all the good stuff, and upon entering SWTOR I set everything to high, and it performed ok (after having huge troubles last year), but damn, in the light of recent releases like GW2 or Planetside 2, it looks extremely bad. Indoor stuff is blocky, modules stuck together, the world is small and lifeless, there are glitches everywhere. There are on-rails zones with zero choice of diversion...

    It really made my jaw drop. I - honestly - said to myself "how on earth could I fall for this a year ago", the game, even now, is terrible...

    I mean sure its free now and I don't pay a cent, but paying for this game feels like a really streched expectation now...

    In fact, it feels like STO did in 2010.

    And I really don't get how games like GW2 can offer that extreme difference in content quantity and quality with just the box price. 

    Are developer teams so hugely different in competence? Compared to mobile phones or PC distributors the quality and "bang for the buck"-differences in MMORPGs seem extreme these days.

    M

      

    Everyone's taste are different, I think GW2 is dull compared to GW1 or Tor, I have had no problems with TOR graphics or lag, althought GW2 has a more animated World its gameplay is dull compared to TOR

  • Neo_LibertyNeo_Liberty Lufkin, TXPosts: 429Member Uncommon

    its funny how everyone turned this into a i like this game/ don't like that game thread...

     

    the focus was the game's WORLD. GW2 game world is much better than tor's there is no disputing that... mobs move..... npc's move. there is much more variety and graphic quality.. gameplay is something different.. and to each their own.

    image
  • baphametbaphamet omaha, NEPosts: 2,838Member Uncommon

    i prefer SWTOR over GW2, even though GW2 has a decent single player mmo experience as well.

  • comradedougcomradedoug Crystal Lake, ILPosts: 30Member

    I found GW2 to be utterly lifeless. WvW meant nothing, there was no faction to get behind other than the color red, green or blue. Red is my favorite color, but still...

     

    Further, their "dynamic" events repeat themselves. Perhaps it was the idea that the world was truly dynamic that made me realize just how utterly un-dynamic it was. I fail to see how having two zones to go to is somehow ultra liberation from "on rails" given the fact each SWTOR planet has more content than a GW2 zone. Further, the content you do in GW2 zones is on a constant cycle, literally a timed one, I fail to see how that is not "on rails." What's more, GW2's endgame was an atrocious grind for gear. World exploration was even more boring. As stated above, WvW was just a cinematic zerg with some strategy involved.

     

    More to the point, SWTOR is not what GW2 is and never claimed to be. If you prefer more "freedom" be it supercial as it is, then you might prefer Gw2. Nohing wrong with that, but that also doesn't suggest there is anything wrong with tor.

  • ShadinShadin StockholmPosts: 294Member
    The sober approach? See, that's what you're doing wrong then - I always play it drunk!
  • OberholzerOberholzer Hasbrouck Heights, NJPosts: 498Member
    I thought the title of this thread meant you tried to play SWTOR sober and it was a mistake.
  • KarteliKarteli Providence, PAPosts: 2,646Member
    Originally posted by Maxima1979
    Originally posted by mikahr
    Originally posted by WizardryBioware is more down to earth and respectful.
    [mod edit]
    [mod edit]
    [mod edit]

     

    To Mikahr's original statement about deleted posts, EA did wipe the old forums, including some juicy stuff about beta testers being told they were idiots / morons (when they insisted that SWTOR should not pursue being a WoW clone) and that the devs knew what they were doing.  Many beta testers were banned from beta testing.  It's been observed and discussed many times over.

    Denial is the first sign ...

     

    ps: I don't understand all the hate you have for people wanting the game (as well as Star Wars in general) to get better..

    Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
    Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.

  • Maxima1979Maxima1979 Sioux City, IAPosts: 12Member
    Originally posted by Karteli
    Originally posted by Maxima1979
    Originally posted by mikahr
    Originally posted by WizardryBioware is more down to earth and respectful.

    Really? The game which devs said that "most MMO players are idiots?" THAT company?

    Man...rofl

    By the way here is the proper way to use a quote.  It helps if its a real quote also and in the correct context which your history shows you have an issue with doing.

     

    This is a quote from two weeks ago.  They were talking about how successfull f2p has been. 
     
    Schubert concurred, and he also mentioned that the numbers support BioWare's current position. "Almost every conceivable metric is better. The numbers have blown away our expectations, which means good things for the players and the game," he said.

    Instead of spamming that quote on all your alt accounts on MMORPG.com, you really should get a variety of quotes to mix things up :P

     

    Erm incidently, you should also follow your own advice on proper citations and link the source, beyond just quotes.  I'd like to see the context of that statement all the same.  I've read the interview before (somewhere), but since you keep linking it (all around this subforum and in the Pub), I'd like to read it again.

     

    To Mikahr's original statement about deleted posts, EA did wipe the old forums, including some juicy stuff about beta testers being told they were idiots / morons (when they insisted that SWTOR should not pursue being a WoW clone) and that the devs knew what they were doing.  Many beta testers were banned from beta testing.  It's been observed and discussed many times over.

    Denial is the first sign ...

     

    ps: I don't understand all the hate you have for people wanting the game (as well as Star Wars in general) to get better..

    Here is your link  http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/11/30/swtor-livestream-qanda-highlights-f2p-success-bioware-listening/

     

    There is no issue with those who truly want the game to get better.  You post on every single SWTOR post also, you provide facts, and links to your arguements and I feel you do want it to get better and have played it.  Just look at his history nothing constructive has ever been brought up by him.  That is the issue.

     

    As for beta testers being banned, it happens on every single MMO.  As for the dev calling people idiots sorry unless you two can come up with some links to the quotes I will continue to say they are not true. 

  • Maxima1979Maxima1979 Sioux City, IAPosts: 12Member
    Originally posted by mikahr
    Originally posted by Maxima1979

     

    So your going to make a quote on a quote that supposedly has been deleted? Ive been playing mmos for a long time kid so not a noob thanks. And there is a huge difference between "following" a game for years and well hating on a game for years. I guess even a noob as myself can learn how to look at a players history. Mostly lies, false quotes, quotes out context , inaccuate facts, and seems to have some personal beef with SWTOR. Its clear you dont and have never played SWTOR, why spend so much time posting lies, inaccuate facts, quotes that "supposedly " got deleted on a game you dont play?

    [mod edit]

    Originally posted by JKwervo
    [mod edit]

    [mod edit]

    I would love to have an mature, educated converstation about SWTOR with you, but you clearly have never played the game.  Deleting pre-launch forums is not unusual in an mmo, you being an expert I figured you would have know that. 

     

    I was not saying the forums did not get deleted I am saying your quote you used was "supposedly" deleted.  Yes you can go ahead and put anything between "       "  and think its going to be the truth. See watch this Mikahr said "he has never played SWTOR and has some personal beef with the game"  Well us educated people will smell a rat and know that its not always correct. 

  • Maxima1979Maxima1979 Sioux City, IAPosts: 12Member
    Originally posted by mikahr
    Originally posted by Maxima1979

    I would love to have an mature, educated converstation about SWTOR with you, but you clearly have never played the game.  Deleting pre-launch forums is not unusual in an mmo, you being an expert I figured you would have know that. 

     

    I was not saying the forums did not get deleted I am saying your quote you used was "supposedly" deleted.  Yes you can go ahead and put anything between "       "  and think its going to be the truth.  Well us educated people will smell a rat and know that its not always correct. 

    Wow, well you educated people (how weird to call yourself in plural, hmm) facts are facts, and if you want to live in ignrance be my guest. Just dont spam forums with random nonsense in the process pls, thank you.

    Wow maybe you should take your own words and use them buddy.  All you do is spam every single post about SWTOR and provide nothing but random nonsense.  I understand you can't comprehend the fact a lot of people enjoy the game.  Maybe some how SWTOR hurt you.  And your way to get back to them is to post lies, inaccurate facts, quotes out of context, quotes that no longer exist, and call others names.  Well if that makes you feel better good for you. 

  • KarteliKarteli Providence, PAPosts: 2,646Member
    This thread delivers BTW /popcorn!
     
    Originally posted by Camaro68

    I'm trying to figure out how fully-voiced and animated quest cutscenes are "lifeless" compared to NPCs in all other MMOs who do nothing but silently throw you a wall of text. 

    The only thing I can agree on is that the performance is punishing.  Load times are definitely ridiculous. 

    But obviously its not the end of the world for SWTOR.  The only MMOs with more players are WoW and GW2(the latter of which may end up with less than SWTOR pretty soon)

    General meaning of SWTOR's lifeless worlds:

    The reference to SWTOR being lifeless isn't because of the cutscenes directly, but rather the stale and unadventurous lives the NPC's seem to live.  Some NPC's just stand there looking around, while other NPC's perform the same 168-hour a week schedule to type away at a terminal, etc.

     

    It also has to do with the outside environment being stale and .. well .. without life, aka lifeless.  No wildlife, no wandering NPC's, no day/night cycles, no weather effects.  Every hour spent is just like the last.  The weather effect absense makes me grumble even more, because on some planets there are quests to create lightning and such.  Grrr..  why not add that to the regular environment for all to see without questing:/

     

    Personal desires:

    Those comments about lifeless-ness have nothing to do with the animated quest cutscenes (to my knowledge) per se, although I would have rather had those scenes rendered in real time like how Half Life 2 and later games did (events, conversations, animations and everything all happen without you losing control of your character from it's normal 3D gameplay environment).  It's not an exact solution because it messes with the MMO element, but with SWTOR's budget I bet EA could have come up with something less boxed in.  Most critical story cutscenes are in an instance anyways, for example, so there could have been a hybrid model (or other).  But, again, this paragraph is my personal desires, not representative of what people mean when they say SWTOR worlds are "lifeless".

    Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
    Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.

  • IcewhiteIcewhite Elmhurst, ILPosts: 6,403Member

    Holding up a graphically average (maybe less) game to graphical inspection yields disappointment.

     

     

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  • Camaro68Camaro68 Daytona, FLPosts: 50Member
    Originally posted by Karteli
    This thread delivers BTW /popcorn!
     
    Originally posted by Camaro68

    I'm trying to figure out how fully-voiced and animated quest cutscenes are "lifeless" compared to NPCs in all other MMOs who do nothing but silently throw you a wall of text. 

    The only thing I can agree on is that the performance is punishing.  Load times are definitely ridiculous. 

    But obviously its not the end of the world for SWTOR.  The only MMOs with more players are WoW and GW2(the latter of which may end up with less than SWTOR pretty soon)

    General meaning of SWTOR's lifeless worlds:

    The reference to SWTOR being lifeless isn't because of the cutscenes directly, but rather the stale and unadventurous lives the NPC's seem to live.  Some NPC's just stand there looking around, while other NPC's perform the same 168-hour a week schedule to type away at a terminal, etc.

     

    It also has to do with the outside environment being stale and .. well .. without life, aka lifeless.  No wildlife, no wandering NPC's, no day/night cycles, no weather effects.  Every hour spent is just like the last.  The weather effect absense makes me grumble even more, because on some planets there are quests to create lightning and such.  Grrr..  why not add that to the regular environment for all to see without questing:/

     

    There is actually wildlife in the gameworld and they aren't there for questing or farming purposes...

    Day/night cylcles have been meaningless since about 1999 when players figured out how to turn up the gamma in EQ1...

    Exactly what more do filler NPCs do in other MMOs?  In EQ2 they would greet you if you walked close enough to trigger them but that turned out to be so annoying that they ixnayed that feature pretty fast...

    SWTOR, like most videogames, is more about what the players are doing rather than what the non-quest NPCs are up to. 

    That said, there's NPCs in shootouts, NPCs scanning spaceport arrivals, NPCs gossiping about the locals, NPCs playing music, NPCs dancing, NPCs sparring, wookies losing at chess...I could go on and on with this.

  • KarteliKarteli Providence, PAPosts: 2,646Member
    Originally posted by Camaro68
    Originally posted by Karteli
    This thread delivers BTW /popcorn!
     
    Originally posted by Camaro68

    I'm trying to figure out how fully-voiced and animated quest cutscenes are "lifeless" compared to NPCs in all other MMOs who do nothing but silently throw you a wall of text. 

    The only thing I can agree on is that the performance is punishing.  Load times are definitely ridiculous. 

    But obviously its not the end of the world for SWTOR.  The only MMOs with more players are WoW and GW2(the latter of which may end up with less than SWTOR pretty soon)

    General meaning of SWTOR's lifeless worlds:

    The reference to SWTOR being lifeless isn't because of the cutscenes directly, but rather the stale and unadventurous lives the NPC's seem to live.  Some NPC's just stand there looking around, while other NPC's perform the same 168-hour a week schedule to type away at a terminal, etc.

     

    It also has to do with the outside environment being stale and .. well .. without life, aka lifeless.  No wildlife, no wandering NPC's, no day/night cycles, no weather effects.  Every hour spent is just like the last.  The weather effect absense makes me grumble even more, because on some planets there are quests to create lightning and such.  Grrr..  why not add that to the regular environment for all to see without questing:/

     

    (1) There is actually wildlife in the gameworld and they aren't there for questing or farming purposes...

    (2) Day/night cylcles have been meaningless since about 1999 when players figured out how to turn up the gamma in EQ1...

    (3) Exactly what more do filler NPCs do in other MMOs?  In EQ2 they would greet you if you walked close enough to trigger them but that turned out to be so annoying that they ixnayed that feature pretty fast...

    SWTOR, like most videogames, is more about what the players are doing rather than what the non-quest NPCs are up to. 

    That said, there's NPCs in shootouts, NPCs scanning spaceport arrivals, NPCs gossiping about the locals, NPCs playing music, NPCs dancing, NPCs sparring, wookies losing at chess...I could go on and on with this.

    (1) There is no wildlife.  Are you confusing this with another game?

     

    (2) Turning up gamma in EQ1 didn't help you see better.  black was still black, no matter how much more black you could make it (by turning up gamma).  Only lighted areas would show brighter, dependant on the light source you carried.

     

    (3) I'm not comparing NPC's to other games.  This is a Star Wars game, filled with innovation, who copies NO-ONE ...If the defense is that Star Wars is copying other games and thus it's OK, then the battle is already LOST.  Single player games give NPC's life, those are great examples.  The Ultima series is good - see Ultima 7, it's abandonware, so F2P essentially.  Every NPC had a unique daily routine.  Of course that made sense, because Ultima games had a day/night cycle. /snap

     

    NPC's are doing everything you said (individually, without variation), but they are still lifeless, even if they dance 24 hours a day (which they do).  NPC's have no purpose in the SWTOR environment, no substance, no life.  THEY ARE LIFELESS.  .. without purpose, meaning, emotion, essence, substance ... they just stand there, whether they type at a keyboard all day, dance, or cheer others on.  That is what people mean when they say NPC's in SWTOR are lifeless.  it's quite drab.

    Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
    Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.

  • ShadinShadin StockholmPosts: 294Member
    Originally posted by Karteli

    (1) There is no wildlife.  Are you confusing this with another game?

    Just wanted to adress this one thing... There actually IS wildlife in the game.. Or well, "wildlife".. Usually quite large creatures. It's just that they act the same way as other mobs (standing still, walking 3 steps left then right etc.) so you never actually pay any real attention to them as it's "just another mob". The size of them, being the same size as mobs, and the fact that there at some part in the game is a "mob version" of them doesn't help either.

    In short, there IS wildlife - it's just so poorly done that they might've just as well excluded it (imo).

  • LoverNoFighterLoverNoFighter Star CItyPosts: 294Member

    The best thing with SWTOR were the 3 cinematic teasers.

    They were 10/10.

  • Loke666Loke666 MalmöPosts: 18,041Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by lizardbones

    GW2 cost a lot less, and was largely funded by GW1. SWToR cost a lot more and wasn't funded by another game.

    That has nothing to do with it, Bioware had the money but didnt use them as well as they should.

    38 studio also had the money but wasted all of them and never even got out their game.

    TORs problem there is that they put most of the funding on stuff like voice overs for sidequests and making cutscenes for the same. That is stuff we dont really need (for the mainquest is one thing but none of us needs VOs and cutscenes for us to kill 10 rats).

    It is possible that the hero engine also have something to do with it, both PS2 and GW2 have custom engines made specifically for the games. But we seen other games with the hero engine that looks better.

    Partly is the whole thing a bad decision about art, with the right art and coloring lower poly count still can look good. Bioware decided something close to Clone wars instead of something more artistic.

    Still, art is not my main problem with the game. It is the multiplaying stuff, the game is far too solofocused.

  • Loke666Loke666 MalmöPosts: 18,041Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Karteli

    (3) I'm not comparing NPC's to other games.  This is a Star Wars game, filled with innovation, who copies NO-ONE ...If the defense is that Star Wars is copying other games and thus it's OK, then the battle is already LOST.  Single player games give NPC's life, those are great examples.  The Ultima series is good - see Ultima 7, it's abandonware, so F2P essentially.  Every NPC had a unique daily routine.  Of course that made sense, because Ultima games had a day/night cycle. /snap

    NPC's are doing everything you said (individually, without variation), but they are still lifeless, even if they dance 24 hours a day (which they do).  NPC's have no purpose in the SWTOR environment, no substance, no life.  THEY ARE LIFELESS.  .. without purpose, meaning, emotion, essence, substance ... they just stand there, whether they type at a keyboard all day, dance, or cheer others on.  That is what people mean when they say NPC's in SWTOR are lifeless.  it's quite drab.

    Personally I loved how Bethesda handled NPCs in "Morrowwind". If you were away a while suddenly some people had gotten married with eachothers and got kids. They all had a rather interesting AI, worked in the days, maybe went to the tavern before going home to sleep in the night.

    But I am not so sure it would work in a MMO (I think it probably would but as I said, not sure). However in TOR monsters are way to happy to stand around in one spot and wait for players to kill them while NPCs indeed are rather lifeless.

    I seen worse than in TOR but Bioware could have done a lot more. Heck, the NPCs in Neverwinter nights were better scripted so I know for a fact that Bioware can better.

2»
Sign In or Register to comment.