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Taking legal action against The Secret World

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  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member


    Originally posted by GoldenArrow
    My only gripe as lifetimer is that we don't get every expansion "DLC" as free.We have to spend the points we get for lifetime subscription on the content packs which are sold at non-discounted prices.I was expecting to get the whole game and the upcoming content packs in a single purchase :o

    You'll get enough points to buy the DLC. Unless you spend all your points, every month on content that's already in the cash shop.

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • aiwe2143aiwe2143 Memphis, TNPosts: 73Member

    both me and my husband  have lifetime accounts to this game and both approve of this choice.  I am getting what i paid for plus more since we'll be getting the points every month and enough points to pay for every expansion coming out.  We would have had to shell out the cash for those seperately at any rate if they hadn't changed to this model.

    The method they are using is similar to what Lord of the Rings online uses and I have been a lifetimer on that one since beta and have only seen it get better.

    just my opinion on the matter.

  • fallenlordsfallenlords NottinghamPosts: 680Member
    Originally posted by lizardbones

    If you were a player of The Secret World, what has changed in your experience of playing the game? What did you lose?

     

    If money has changed hands you have a contract.   I think anybody of a reasonable nature would argue that somebody signing up for a lifetime subscription, does not sign up for a subscription period of 7 months.   The reason they have changed the business model is because things aren't going so well, that's not the customers fault.  So it would be a nice gesture on the part of the company to not just dictate changes to their loyal supporters, but to at least engage them.   The majority of people will be fine with the changes, anybody that is not happy should have more than one option available to them.   As mentioned before it doesn't matter if the new deal is better, worse or the same.  It's about giving the customer the opportunity to decide what is best for them. 

  • birdycephonbirdycephon Salt Lake City, UTPosts: 1,314Member
    This legal action is so much fail. People who agree to this should be ashamed of themselves.
  • YizleYizle Atlanta, GAPosts: 517Member
    Originally posted by banzai014

    As some of you may be aware, Funcom's The Secret World today shifted from a subscription only model to B2P (http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/12/12/the-secret-world-officially-abolishes-subscriptions/). This was a completely unannounced and sudden change: the only warning given was a "prank" youtube video (http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/12/10/the-secret-worlds-dev-video-blog-begins-end-of-days-chronicle/).

    This leaves players with existing subscription time and lifetime subscribers in the lurch. In this new model, players that purchase the box price have full access to the game in its current state. Players can then subscribe for $15/month for 1200 Funcom points ($10 in real money) that expire after 6 months needed to buy future DLC (slated to be released in monthly installments costing $5-10),  a fluff vanity item of the month, an xp booster item and a 10% discount on the item shop. Existing subscribers are being switched to this plan for the remainder of their subscription time, without a refund option. Remember that these subscribers also had to buy the game box in the beginning.

    This is not what subscribers paid for.  The deal they signed up for has been changed without their consent or prior knowledge. The terms of agreement have been pulled out from under them. Subscribers paid for access to updates ("DLC") but also access to the game itself. In the P2P model you simply could not log in if you were'nt subscribed. Now that you can get full access for free, the value of the subscription has been cheapened.

    The services subscribers get with the B2P model are worthless. $15 per month for $10 worth in limited time points, whereas a B2P player can buy DLC each month for cheaper ($5) and have exactly the same access to the game. $15 (sub per month) > $10 (in virtual Funcom monies) > $5 per month for DLC you need to keep up with other players.

    I feel that the subscription option is only there so that they don't have to refund people with existing subs and of course lifetimers. The sub has no value and is a ripoff. A sub gave players both access to new content and to the game itself. Since everyone has access to the game now for the box price, the sub has lost part of its value and so people with existing sub time should demand a refund. I would really like to know what a lawyer's legal opinion of this change would be.

    I have contacted Massively and MMORPG.com suggesting they write an article investigating the legal implications of TSW's B2P change or otherwise recommend me a lawyer specializing in this area that I could talk to. I hope this way we can get something started moving forward and clarify exactly  what legal recourse existing subscribers have. My demands are fair: I only ask that players get the option of having their extant subscription time refunded, since the subscription service has so wholly changed from what they originally intended to pay for (i.e. which in large part was paying for access to the game itself).

    LMAO. GL with that.

  • TrionicusTrionicus Fort Lauderdale, FLPosts: 497Member Uncommon

    I finished up a case in court recently. The judge threw out the corporations TOS and they were forced to pay me. A TOS / EULA are not law nor contracts. That said, it is still possible for a company to protect themselves to a certain degree using either. Either way, once you can prove an injured / violated party, you are golden.

     

    Usually you'll find those terms and agreements irrelevant unless the user / customer has broken the LAW (this includes violating a companys rights, as in the case of Hotz).

     

    TOS' agreement types that state something like "subject to change without notice" actually negates the entire reason for an agreement. These are also very different from contracts and, contracts cannot be subject to change without notice so... figure it out.

     

    Bottom line: You might be able to get a refund on remaining unused subscription time because of the drastic change in the service, providing you have already attempted to negotiate a refund with the company and have been denied or ignored.

     

    + Most likely it's not financially worth your time to persue this but, if you have the time then sure, might as well. Ironically people here might tell you it's a waste of time, while wasting time telling you it's a waste of time, unlike you though, they have no potential of any financial gain, they're just wasting time.

  • JeroKaneJeroKane OsloPosts: 5,353Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Teala
    See, it is for this very reason that lifetime subs are worthless.

    How so? You will get 1200 points a month for as long as the game will be running.

    So nothing will change for the Lifetimers.

    In fact, they now will get actually more, like a free item each month and other perks.

    With the 1200 points a month they can buy all the DLC's that will release and have plenty of spare points to spend on stuff in the Store!

    So seriously.... lifetimers are actually now even better off than they were before!

    /shrug!  This whole thread is jus beyond silly!

  • evolver1972evolver1972 Port Orchard, WAPosts: 1,118Member

    What a silly, trite, and frivolous lawsuit that would be.  So, a company has no right to develop and sell their product as they see fit?  You paid the subscription for the time that you have played so far.  They've just now made it so you no longer have to pay your subscription.

     

    There are many things in this world that require lawsuits to make reparations, unfortunately.  Things like:  Loss of life, destruction of property, ruination of the environment, costing people their livelihoods, fraud, etc.  This is not one of those things.  Get over yourself.  If you don't like how a company is doing business, stop giving them your money.  Simple as that.  Stop wasting taxpayer dollars with such nonsense.

    image

    You want me to pay to play a game I already paid for???

    Be afraid.....The dragons are HERE!

  • platonicxplatonicx CBPosts: 21Member
    Returning player . Played 2 months after lunch .. then went for a break coz of collage stuff. Bought a life time yesterday. Problem?
  • rawfoxrawfox HamburgPosts: 648Member Uncommon

    I think this thread is a lil stoopy, but i dont wanna offend anyone, i can imagine that lifetimers may feel bit pissed about its B2P now, but to dream the dream of a successful lawsuit for a gamecompany, thats just minor, sorry.

     

  • MukeMuke BredaPosts: 2,172Member Uncommon

    success with it, hope you win if you would go down that path...

    I doubt you'll win though because of the vast recourses those companies have available and the fact that 99.9% of such situations are covered in the EULA, which noone reads.

    "going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"

  • VannorVannor YorkshirePosts: 2,970Member Uncommon

    Right so.. you're still getting unlimited access to the game, check. You will continue to get the same as subscribers, check. You now get extra cashshop currency that you didn't before, check.

    Seriously, why can't you lifetimers and subscribers see that you are now BETTER OFF. There is no debate other than you all pissin your pants on some dumb principle idea. Bringing more people to the game is better for YOU as well as for Funcom.

  • Panther2103Panther2103 Edmonds, WAPosts: 2,356Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Vannor

    RIght so.. you're sitll getting unlimited acedss to the game, check. You will continue to get the same subscribers, check. You now get extra cashshop currency that you didn't before, check.

    Seriously, why can't you lifetimers see that you are now BETTER OFF.

    Plus a boost in playerbase. I mean thats a major plus. Would the lifetimers rather them not do it and have nobody playing the game anymore other than lifetime players? It lost a major amount of subscriptions and this was a way for them to get players back without any major repricussions, they will still get people subbing who want to, they will get people paying for cash shop stuff, they get the life time players to continue to play. I see nothing but positives. Lifetimers get constant cash shop money to buy anything they need in terms of DLC and they even stated it would be more than enough each month to buy all the dlc. They get an exp boost just like subscribers do. They get the item each month that subscribers get. I think it's better this way than the other way.

  • JeroKaneJeroKane OsloPosts: 5,353Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Vannor

    RIght so.. you're sitll getting unlimited acedss to the game, check. You will continue to get the same subscribers, check. You now get extra cashshop currency that you didn't before, check.

    Seriously, why can't you lifetimers see that you are now BETTER OFF.

    Because I seriously doubt people like the OP are really lifetimers at all!

    More like just trolls that jump at every opportunity to start rage threads and troll the forums.

    As every sane person that "really" is a lifetimer can immediately see the benefit of this change and that they are now better off and get more than before!

    And on top of that, the extra bonus is an increase in player population!

  • evolver1972evolver1972 Port Orchard, WAPosts: 1,118Member
    Originally posted by JeroKane
    Originally posted by Vannor

    RIght so.. you're sitll getting unlimited acedss to the game, check. You will continue to get the same subscribers, check. You now get extra cashshop currency that you didn't before, check.

    Seriously, why can't you lifetimers see that you are now BETTER OFF.

    Because I seriously doubt people like the OP are really lifetimers at all!

    More like just trolls that jump at every opportunity to start rage threads and troll the forums.

    As every sane person that "really" is a lifetimer can immediately see the benefit of this change and that they are now better off and get more than before!

    And on top of that, the extra bonus is an increase in player population!

    Considering how many subscription elitists there are on this site, I doubt many would agree with your notions of going B2P as a bonus.

     

    I do, however.  :)

    image

    You want me to pay to play a game I already paid for???

    Be afraid.....The dragons are HERE!

  • dimnikardimnikar ZanistanvillePosts: 271Member
    Originally posted by Tjed
    Probably not going to get anywhere.  There is usually some tricky wording in the terms that players check a box and agree to every time they log in. 

    Terms of agreements, EULAs etc, have NO LEGAL POWER when specifics are written into LAW. If contractual law states that details of a service agreement must be known in advance (AND IT DOES), no amount of tricky wording makes what they did legal.

    I'm astounded how many are so incredibly clueless about how this works.

     

  • VannorVannor YorkshirePosts: 2,970Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by dimnikar
    Originally posted by Tjed
    Probably not going to get anywhere.  There is usually some tricky wording in the terms that players check a box and agree to every time they log in. 

    Terms of agreements, EULAs etc, have NO LEGAL POWER when specifics are written into LAW. If contractual law states that details of a service agreement must be known in advance (AND IT DOES), no amount of tricky wording makes what they did legal.

    I'm astounded how many are so incredibly clueless about how this works.

    Lol, it's funny when people jump in calling everyone clueless when they are saying something rediculous.

    The "Terms of agreements, EULAs etc." ARE the details of a service agreement.

  • ZinzanZinzan NorthPosts: 1,351Member
    Originally posted by dimnikar
    Originally posted by Tjed
    Probably not going to get anywhere.  There is usually some tricky wording in the terms that players check a box and agree to every time they log in. 

    Terms of agreements, EULAs etc, have NO LEGAL POWER when specifics are written into LAW. If contractual law states that details of a service agreement must be known in advance (AND IT DOES), no amount of tricky wording makes what they did legal.

    I'm astounded how many are so incredibly clueless about how this works.

     

    It's not wise to call people clueless when you don't have much of a clue yourself :)

     

    Expresso gave me a Hearthstone beta key.....I'm so happy :)

  • ZinzanZinzan NorthPosts: 1,351Member
    Originally posted by Vannor
    Originally posted by dimnikar
    Originally posted by Tjed
    Probably not going to get anywhere.  There is usually some tricky wording in the terms that players check a box and agree to every time they log in. 

    Terms of agreements, EULAs etc, have NO LEGAL POWER when specifics are written into LAW. If contractual law states that details of a service agreement must be known in advance (AND IT DOES), no amount of tricky wording makes what they did legal.

    I'm astounded how many are so incredibly clueless about how this works.

    Lol, it's funny when people jump in calling everyone clueless when they are saying something rediculous.

    The "Terms of agreements, EULAs etc." ARE the details of a service agreement.

    Amusing isn't it :)

    Expresso gave me a Hearthstone beta key.....I'm so happy :)

  • WeretigarWeretigar winifrede, WVPosts: 609Member
    If all the people here actually had lifetime subscriptions the game would have never went f2p in the first place. Happy or otherwise. As for everyone still debating about it. Nothing means anything in the court thats why lady justice is blindfolded so she cant see all the people screwing the justice system.  If you go in and the judge and people like you you win. THE END.
  • tawesstawess LkpgPosts: 2,535Member Uncommon

    I am pretty sure it has been mentioned before but it bears repeating again.

     

    The reason the OP would not get anywhere is not becuase of the ToS or EULA but the fact that the company have taken steps to compensate the customer that i think most courts would find more then enough. And as such the OP have no case. This is in no way related to the ToS or EULA:

     

     

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member


    Originally posted by Trionicus
    I finished up a case in court recently. The judge threw out the corporations TOS and they were forced to pay me. A TOS / EULA are not law nor contracts. That said, it is still possible for a company to protect themselves to a certain degree using either. Either way, once you can prove an injured / violated party, you are golden. Usually you'll find those terms and agreements irrelevant unless the user / customer has broken the LAW (this includes violating a companys rights, as in the case of Hotz). TOS' agreement types that state something like "subject to change without notice" actually negates the entire reason for an agreement. These are also very different from contracts and, contracts cannot be subject to change without notice so... figure it out. Bottom line: You might be able to get a refund on remaining unused subscription time because of the drastic change in the service, providing you have already attempted to negotiate a refund with the company and have been denied or ignored. + Most likely it's not financially worth your time to persue this but, if you have the time then sure, might as well. Ironically people here might tell you it's a waste of time, while wasting time telling you it's a waste of time, unlike you though, they have no potential of any financial gain, they're just wasting time.

    So all the OP has to do is prove that they were harmed? Excellent! Someone please describe how the OP was harmed?

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • EliasThorneEliasThorne North YorkshirePosts: 338Member
    Originally posted by Teala
    See, it is for this very reason that lifetime subs are worthless.

    Agreed and I damn nearly did lifetime on this one

    Currently Playing: GW2
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  • FromHellFromHell NY, NYPosts: 1,311Member

    OP I have one message for you:

    PATHETIC entitlement, your posts are full of baseless chaotic arguments, but thanks for the good laugh. Best thread of the day.

    please do us all a favor and spend some 1000s for a "game lawyer" to save you 199 bucks... lol, really

     

    you get all further DLC for free plus points stipend, they'll even add an auto-deduct option to get the DLCs with your free points, so you won't even notice a difference.

    I think you just love trolling.

     

    PS: Anyone believing this guy has money for a lawyer, when complaining about the price of a dinner??? ROFL. Poor blackmailing attempt

     

    that is all

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  • zymurgeistzymurgeist Pittsville, VAPosts: 5,212Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by zephermarkus

    EULA AND TOS never hold up in court and the customer always wins.

     Nonsense. If they never held up in court they wouldn't even exist. No one would be able to enforce any contract and no software product would be marketable. Every gaming company would be bankrupted by constant litigation. You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. A monkey with a briefcase could win this case for Funcom.

    "Strong and bitter words indicate a weak cause" ~Victor Hugo

This discussion has been closed.