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Stories of the death of Guild Wars 2

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Comments

  • The_KorriganThe_Korrigan EastPosts: 2,630Member

     

    Originally posted by ezpz77
     

    I'm not conspiring against your favorite video game, dude. Not once have I said anything negative about GW2. In fact, I play the game and enjoy it. I'm just saying that Amazon sales numbers really don't mean too much in terms of the overall health of the game.

    The conspiracy thing wasn't against you, but in general. It seems to be an all time favorite on game forums, as I said, I've witnessed this for WoW for over 8 years. If a game is successful, it can't be possible, there must be a trick.

    I'm also not saying that amazon sales numbers are the end of it all - but when several sites have similar results, for both boxed and digital copies, then it's not just a coincidence. It means the game is successful, no matter what anyone on any game forum likes to believe for whatever reason.

    There's no conspiracy, no tricks, GW2 is selling well, and is still doing so almost 4 months after its release.

    And you may be right about Skyrim. It has sold 10 milion copies as of July 31, 2012. 14% of those sales come from PC, but I still don't see how Skyrim is sixth on the Amazon best sellers list and GW2 is second. The only announced verifiable numbers we have for GW2, that I can find at a cursory glance, are 2,000,000 sales. If we are to believe that the Amazon sales chart is an accurate source of information, that would mean that Guild Wars 2 has sold approximately four times as many copies as Skyrim has on PC which the data does not support.

    The 2,000,000 sales were in September... the FACT that the game stays at the top of charts of SEVERAL sites means it's still doing just fine. Nothing more, nothing less.

    Have a nice evening - I've a game to play now :)

    If you wonder why I don't answer your posts, it's most likely because you are on my block list - so don't waste your time.

    image

  • Camaro68Camaro68 Daytona, FLPosts: 50Member

    Players these days devour content...its rare for a game to be able to hold onto it's audience for very long.   GW2 is a solid game but really guys, its not the second coming and players have left in droves.

    Games like LoL, WoW and COD4 are a rare breed.  No matter how much hype and goodwill a game generates, it's chances of being a longterm hit with players are pretty low.

    This game didn't really innovate much and its been sent to scrapyard with countless other MMOs.  The quest-based casual formula for MMOs is dead, done and gone.  The next MMO that retains it's audience will do something radically different than what we've been getting for the past 8 years.

    I play SWTOR just for the novelty of lightsabers and the audacity of Bioware to create a MMORPG in a futuristic setting instead of the usual medival fantasy world but even it ultimately stuck to the current MMO formula and paid the price for it.

  • shawn01shawn01 nashua, NHPosts: 153Member Common

    At this point I have pretty much given up hope of finding a game that i will play for 9 years like i played Dark Age of Camelot. GW2 is very similar to WoW. Little zones with nonsensical geography, mobs spaced evenly throughout, no /stick or /face, etc. It doesnt feel like a World, the way my beloved Hibernia felt as though it was a real place.

    Having said that, i will also say that taken for what it is, a themepark hold your hand no brains required to play game, i enjoyed GW2. I think i played for almost 400 hours. If you calculate the cost per hour, i paid 15 cents an hour, which imo is some very cheap entertainment.

    25 years ago when i got my Nintendo, i would save up to buy a game, which back then cost 40 to 60 dollars, and usually beat it in a week or two. I loved some of those games. Games like Zelda, Metroid, Kid Icuras, Ghosts and Goblins, Castlevania, Mike Tyson's Punch Out, etc. I loved them, but im sure i never played any of them for 400 hours.

    Was i hoping for more from GW2? Of course, but i didnt expect it. And i feel as though i got my money's worth out of it. I'm afraid, much as i hope that im wrong, that no one is interested in making Worlds for us to live in anymore. So we have to redifine our definition of success.

    As to whether or not the game is dying. Yes it is dying. None of my guildies with whom I play every new game is still playing. I'm not still playing. But since its buy to play, i dont feel bad about it. It's nice that i can come back to play for free any time i want, though i probly wont.

    The biggest reason imo that these games that have come out since WoW are dying is that they dont require any socialization. Everyone can solo pretty much everything in the open world. I made 3 chars to level 80, and i either soloed or duo'd my way to 80. In daoc, when i made my first level 50 i knew just about everyone on my server in my realm. Sure it was hard to level and it took forever, but it was a social experience, and for me that is the best reason to play MMO's. They have taken everything social out of these new "themepark" games, and they become boring grind fests. In DAoC we had to grind, a lot lol, but it was fun for a variety of reasons. As i said you got to know people, because you had to group. I tried to solo on my hero, and most times i would end up losing EXP. You had to group and it took a long time to level, and a pleasant by-product of that was a sort of sense of competition. I wanted to beat the people i knew to level 50. In GW2 i didnt meet any new people. I didnt care who was what level, since it went by so fast it didnt matter.

    They have removed Camps from new games, which i also think is a big mistake. Having camps of mobs in the open world makes it more social, because you can go to a camp and find people there and ask to join their grp. Does it suck sometimes when people try to steal your camp? Yes but running around solo all the time is much worse.

    Instancing is the devil. The reason i played DAoC for nine years, wasnt just because it was a great game, but because of the people and friends i had in the game.

    Another major problem with GW2, and the reason i quit playing is that the PVP is terrible. Giant red names that you can see through solid objects at clip range pretty much takes any element of strategy out of the game. Some guy was out there trying to lure me into an ambush, unfortunately for him, i could see the giant red names of his friends sticking out from behind the obstacle they were using to hide. Also the fact that your enemies are pretty much anonymous is stupid. In DAoC you knew your enemy, and they knew you. PvP against anonymous players who change every week is meaningless. Even without realm points, in daoc i had people who i loved to fight.

    Sorry about the book, it's just sad that a genre that started off so well has only gotten dumbed down and turned into fast food. I miss the days when only us nerdy guys had computers and played pc games.

  • bunzagabunzaga Salt Lake City, UTPosts: 30Member

    The problem with GW2, is there is no replay-ability.  Once you have gone through all the different quests on one guy, why would you want to go through it all again on another guy?

    They made it so you can just jump into Arena PvP right at level 1, so there is no point to level up if you are into competative 'e-sport'.

    WvW is fun, but pointless in the end.

    The way every single class weilding the same weapons, have all of the same base abilities, as well as cookie-cutter builds, makes it so there is no customization.

     

    Fun game, for about a month.  After that, what's the point?

  • bunzagabunzaga Salt Lake City, UTPosts: 30Member
    Originally posted by shawn01

    At this point I have pretty much given up hope of finding a game that i will play for 9 years like i played Dark Age of Camelot. GW2 is very similar to WoW. Little zones with nonsensical geography, mobs spaced evenly throughout, no /stick or /face, etc. It doesnt feel like a World, the way my beloved Hibernia felt as though it was a real place.

    Having said that, i will also say that taken for what it is, a themepark hold your hand no brains required to play game, i enjoyed GW2. I think i played for almost 400 hours. If you calculate the cost per hour, i paid 15 cents an hour, which imo is some very cheap entertainment.

    25 years ago when i got my Nintendo, i would save up to buy a game, which back then cost 40 to 60 dollars, and usually beat it in a week or two. I loved some of those games. Games like Zelda, Metroid, Kid Icuras, Ghosts and Goblins, Castlevania, Mike Tyson's Punch Out, etc. I loved them, but im sure i never played any of them for 400 hours.

    Was i hoping for more from GW2? Of course, but i didnt expect it. And i feel as though i got my money's worth out of it. I'm afraid, much as i hope that im wrong, that no one is interested in making Worlds for us to live in anymore. So we have to redifine our definition of success.

    As to whether or not the game is dying. Yes it is dying. None of my guildies with whom I play every new game is still playing. I'm not still playing. But since its buy to play, i dont feel bad about it. It's nice that i can come back to play for free any time i want, though i probly wont.

    The biggest reason imo that these games that have come out since WoW are dying is that they dont require any socialization. Everyone can solo pretty much everything in the open world. I made 3 chars to level 80, and i either soloed or duo'd my way to 80. In daoc, when i made my first level 50 i knew just about everyone on my server in my realm. Sure it was hard to level and it took forever, but it was a social experience, and for me that is the best reason to play MMO's. They have taken everything social out of these new "themepark" games, and they become boring grind fests. In DAoC we had to grind, a lot lol, but it was fun for a variety of reasons. As i said you got to know people, because you had to group. I tried to solo on my hero, and most times i would end up losing EXP. You had to group and it took a long time to level, and a pleasant by-product of that was a sort of sense of competition. I wanted to beat the people i knew to level 50. In GW2 i didnt meet any new people. I didnt care who was what level, since it went by so fast it didnt matter.

    They have removed Camps from new games, which i also think is a big mistake. Having camps of mobs in the open world makes it more social, because you can go to a camp and find people there and ask to join their grp. Does it suck sometimes when people try to steal your camp? Yes but running around solo all the time is much worse.

    Instancing is the devil. The reason i played DAoC for nine years, wasnt just because it was a great game, but because of the people and friends i had in the game.

    Another major problem with GW2, and the reason i quit playing is that the PVP is terrible. Giant red names that you can see through solid objects at clip range pretty much takes any element of strategy out of the game. Some guy was out there trying to lure me into an ambush, unfortunately for him, i could see the giant red names of his friends sticking out from behind the obstacle they were using to hide. Also the fact that your enemies are pretty much anonymous is stupid. In DAoC you knew your enemy, and they knew you. PvP against anonymous players who change every week is meaningless. Even without realm points, in daoc i had people who i loved to fight.

    Sorry about the book, it's just sad that a genre that started off so well has only gotten dumbed down and turned into fast food. I miss the days when only us nerdy guys had computers and played pc games.

    You should give RaiderZ a try. :D

  • ZebladeZeblade Colorado Springs, COPosts: 926Member

    You know this "Internet never lies" kind of thing.. funny.

    For me I havent played GW2 in long time.. went back on and after a few days its been the same. No where near what was. Yeah yeah I know its my server blah blah. Getting that "boss at" in chat then going there, where it was 30 + people best so far 8 so far. No its not dead still lots of people playing.

    I think the only reason this thread is alive is "death of" brings people in. lol

     

  • shawn01shawn01 nashua, NHPosts: 153Member Common
    I'm planning to give Age of Wushu and Darkfall Unholy Wars a try. Wishing someone would make DAoC 2 with all the same systems, just update the graphics.
  • botrytisbotrytis In Flux, MIPosts: 2,567Member
    Originally posted by Zeblade

    You know this "Internet never lies" kind of thing.. funny.

    For me I havent played GW2 in long time.. went back on and after a few days its been the same. No where near what was. Yeah yeah I know its my server blah blah. Getting that "boss at" in chat then going there, where it was 30 + people best so far 8 so far. No its not dead still lots of people playing.

    I think the only reason this thread is alive is "death of" brings people in. lol

     

    A long time? It has been out 3 months - that is not a LONG time unless you have a short attention span....

    image

    "In 50 years, when I talk to my grandchildren about these days, I'll make sure to mention what an accomplished MMO player I was. They are going to be so proud ..."
    by Naqaj - 7/17/2013 MMORPG.com forum

  • botrytisbotrytis In Flux, MIPosts: 2,567Member
    Originally posted by shawn01
    I'm planning to give Age of Wushu and Darkfall Unholy Wars a try. Wishing someone would make DAoC 2 with all the same systems, just update the graphics.

     

    Date Population
    Launch 250,000
    July, 2002 210,000
    November, 2003 250,000
    2005 175,000
    2006 125,000
    2007 95,000
    January, 2008 50,000
    2009 20,000
    June, 2011 5,000
     

     

    This is from WIKI on DAoC - that is not alot of people (it is an estimate of population from Mythic data). I can understand why they don't want to make a game like it again - niche game.

    image

    "In 50 years, when I talk to my grandchildren about these days, I'll make sure to mention what an accomplished MMO player I was. They are going to be so proud ..."
    by Naqaj - 7/17/2013 MMORPG.com forum

  • shawn01shawn01 nashua, NHPosts: 153Member Common

    Niche game? 250k subscribers was a record back then.

    That is the biggest problem with games nowadays, and with gamers. Products need a niche. Making a game to try to satisfy everyone inevitably ends up in a game that satisfies no one. DAoC is for me the best game ever made by a country mile. Most people who played it agree that it was one of the best games they ever played.

  • OmnifishOmnifish LondonPosts: 616Member

    Honestly it's not worth bothering with sales figures of games for the reasons Greenman stated. It maybe high on the amazon.com chart but on the amazon.co.uk chart it's 14th just behind Sims 3 pet adventures.  Neither of those charts are indicitive of how the games doing at the moment, because they don't display units sold, and they obviously don't tell us usage after sale.  6 million people could buy the game over the next week but if they quit after 5 hours playing then long term the game will suffer. 

     What matters for GW2 is how many people put money down in the CS longterm and were not really going to know that number as ANET keep it to themselves.  As Greenman posted, SWTOR had excellent sales figures and some have suggested that because it had a sub it failed and GW2 won't because it hasn't (?!)). Bizzare logic, ultimately GW2 needs a susbstantial number investing in the cash shop to expand in the future, which is why the gem/cash shop is a major feature, (which ANET convinently sidestepped in marketing).  Without figures for that we really don't know how well the game is doing.

    This looks like a job for....The Riviera Kid!

  • botrytisbotrytis In Flux, MIPosts: 2,567Member
    Originally posted by Omnifish

    Honestly it's not worth bothering with sales figures of games for the reasons Greenman stated. It maybe high on the amazon.com chart but on the amazon.co.uk chart it's 14th just behind Sims 3 pet adventures.  Neither of those charts are indicitive of how the games doing at the moment, because they don't display units sold, and they obviously don't tell us usage after sale.  6 million people could buy the game over the next week but if they quit after 5 hours playing then long term the game will suffer. 

     What matters for GW2 is how many people put money down in the CS longterm and were not really going to know that number as ANET keep it to themselves.  As Greenman posted, SWTOR had excellent sales figures and some have suggested that because it had a sub it failed and GW2 won't because it hasn't (?!)). Bizzare logic, ultimately GW2 needs a susbstantial number investing in the cash shop to expand in the future, which is why the gem/cash shop is a major feature, (which ANET convinently sidestepped in marketing).  Without figures for that we really don't know how well the game is doing.

    UH - they don't need people investing in the cash shop - that is the point. It is all OPTIONAL. The reason gems are used, instead ot cash (which was done in GW1), is you can now buy gems for in game gold and visa versa. It reasons then, you do not have to buy gems with cash if only for convenience.

     

     

    image

    "In 50 years, when I talk to my grandchildren about these days, I'll make sure to mention what an accomplished MMO player I was. They are going to be so proud ..."
    by Naqaj - 7/17/2013 MMORPG.com forum

  • botrytisbotrytis In Flux, MIPosts: 2,567Member
    Originally posted by shawn01

    Niche game? 250k subscribers was a record back then.

    That is the biggest problem with games nowadays, and with gamers. Products need a niche. Making a game to try to satisfy everyone inevitably ends up in a game that satisfies no one. DAoC is for me the best game ever made by a country mile. Most people who played it agree that it was one of the best games they ever played.

    Yeah - niche game. WoW  and GW1 came out 2 years later and what minimum 10X more players than DAoC. So, yes, I would put it in the niche category.

     

    I played it and it was OK. I didn't think it was the second coming of Christ (like some people here think it is) or anything. It had it good and bad points (to me mostly bad and that is why I stopped playing).

    image

    "In 50 years, when I talk to my grandchildren about these days, I'll make sure to mention what an accomplished MMO player I was. They are going to be so proud ..."
    by Naqaj - 7/17/2013 MMORPG.com forum

  • OmnifishOmnifish LondonPosts: 616Member
    Originally posted by botrytis
    Originally posted by Omnifish

    Honestly it's not worth bothering with sales figures of games for the reasons Greenman stated. It maybe high on the amazon.com chart but on the amazon.co.uk chart it's 14th just behind Sims 3 pet adventures.  Neither of those charts are indicitive of how the games doing at the moment, because they don't display units sold, and they obviously don't tell us usage after sale.  6 million people could buy the game over the next week but if they quit after 5 hours playing then long term the game will suffer. 

     What matters for GW2 is how many people put money down in the CS longterm and were not really going to know that number as ANET keep it to themselves.  As Greenman posted, SWTOR had excellent sales figures and some have suggested that because it had a sub it failed and GW2 won't because it hasn't (?!)). Bizzare logic, ultimately GW2 needs a susbstantial number investing in the cash shop to expand in the future, which is why the gem/cash shop is a major feature, (which ANET convinently sidestepped in marketing).  Without figures for that we really don't know how well the game is doing.

    UH - they don't need people investing in the cash shop - that is the point. It is all OPTIONAL. The reason gems are used, instead ot cash (which was done in GW1), is you can now buy gems for in game gold and visa versa. It reasons then, you do not have to buy gems with cash if only for convenience.

     

     

    Thank you for explaining how the CS is OPTIONAL, clearly I needed that explanation, or maybe you haven't read my post.

    Tell me then, if noone buys anything from the CS at all and just buys the game, how, long term, does the game survive and prosper?

    Are you suggesting that people in their thousands are going to be buying the game every month then? A bold prediction indeed.

    This looks like a job for....The Riviera Kid!

  • KingJigglyKingJiggly Simpsonville, SCPosts: 777Member
    Originally posted by greenreen
    Originally posted by KingJiggly
    Originally posted by greenreen
    Originally posted by austriacus
    Originally posted by greenreen
    Originally posted by The_Korrigan
    Originally posted by greenreen
    Originally posted by The_Korrigan
    ...snip

    ...snip

    ...snip
    ...snip

    Wana know something funny? all those posts are after the karka patch. What does that mean? Orr nerfed and FotM introduced.

    Every single player is doing FotM, why would they do anything else? Best drops, exp and money.

    The open world is dead, thats for sure, the game itself is nowhere near close, evident by the number of overflows in lions arch.

    Yup, the ascended gear patch and the karka presentation just solidified it all for many people. The game changed and the players reflect that. I tried to get recent threads on the subject so it's natural that they are post karka but honestly, I don't remember anyone leaving in bulk on the game until after that stupid ascended gear was added.

    Sure, people were going slowly but I never saw them leave in chunks like the fractals introduced. The day I left there were 2 people talking about the future of it and what it would do - they were right, every bit of it has come to fruition. The reason we watch things like this is to be aware when they might occur again, same reason we relive anything from the past. Knowing the cycle and the outcome can help protect us against this happening in future, or at least recognizing it when it starts in games we are playing and have the forethought to jump out as early as we can. I don't think it's a disservice to analyze when decisions affect games though some take it as offensive to insult their pets.

    Anet has already stated they were wrong to implement the ascended gear that way, and plan to make changes so the gear is more widely distributed and accepted by the community. They were hasty in putting it there. However, the population has hardly changed, i still see dozens of people in each zone, and i am in the least opulated server. One thing anet must do is give some incentive to go back to lower lvl zones. 

    Well brother/sister what I would say to that is TRUE! They have admitted that they were hasty in releasing it with just a singular path when they advertised end game in your own way. They haven't though admitted to all other areas done in haste or unkept promises.

    I can though look at other things they said and haven't followed through on.

    Guesting will be in on release they claimed - still not sorted out and available.

    They said that they beta tested the game yet I still had lots of traits and skills not working as they claim and one profession had over 100 bugs noted. They haven't fixed those things. This was something they knew at release if they did beta testing.

    They claimed they would be getting rid of the invisible ppl in WvWvW, still seeing people complain about that so it's not solidly complete either.

    Karka, again, another hastily released item.

    They made an interview where they said over the next year they will be releasing more ascended gear, the entire set over about a year.

    Then they said that they will be doing spvp updates recently in as soon as 2 mos to have it all in place.

    I watched them take away the prices on food because people were making profit, they never fixed it and brought back the prices.

    They took out orbs in pvp, haven't finalized what will happen with those and if they will ever return.

    They took away the event rewards from escorting dolyaks in WvWvW because people were making money from it. That still isn't resolved.

    They seem to be quick to stop things but not quick to revisit the problem AND FIX IT. Is that a lot to ask - to fix the game that you brag about, to deserve an award because you did a good job instead of disabling everything that doesn't work right while consecutively moving on to the next thing you can do to keep people logged in ? Throw another event at them, they'll take it. Make them buy more boxes, they want to. That's all I hear in my head when they don't fix their gaping issues that many times, they created!

    They are saying a lot of things. My confidence with them is nil because they aren't performing what they say. I'm a lost cause because I drew the line at "we don't make grindy games" when I started grinding but I'm not the only one watching I'm sure.

    I'm looking at history saying to you - they "say" lots of things. Until they "do" them, they can't possibly regain any confidence in those hanging on a fence about the entire thing.

    You have little confidence in a game released four months ago, a game with one of the most complicated coding sytems amongst mmos? This game simply isnt a go and fetch game, you have events leading to other events and tons in between. You have several newer mechanics in mmos in gw2. Not to mention it is b2p. This entire game is basically one giant experiemnt at the moment, as anet has stated themselves.  They are testing the waters and innovating (yes, i said it, innovation) ideas. Fractals are probably one of the best solutions to dungeons i have seen. The rewards, ascended gear, were randomly thrown in to appease people like you who expect everything to be there and now. They have gained tons of confidence, seeing that they retIan high sales rates. They are performing based on reactions of the community, like an experiment as i said earlier, and changing based on those reactions, which they obviously recognize. Unlike of course the typical wow/ tor answer of working as intended. The only thing you are on is a high horse.

  • shawn01shawn01 nashua, NHPosts: 153Member Common

    When it was at it's peak DaoC was the number one MMO. Thats not a niche game. Any game that was made so that 5 year olds can play it, as WoW is designed, and then marketed as WoW is marketed would be a success. That is the key to WoW's success, massive marketing campaigns. I cant remember ever seeing a commercial for another MMO on TV. WoW had William Shatner, Mr. T and even Chuck Norris as spokesmen.

  • The_KorriganThe_Korrigan EastPosts: 2,630Member
    Originally posted by shawn01

    When it was at it's peak DaoC was the number one MMO.

    This is actually wrong. DAoC has never been the number one MMO, even if we consider just western games and ignore the Asian ones.

    Everquest, during the whole "peak" of DAoC, always had more than double the players than DAoC.

    SWG, as funny as it may sound, also always had more players than DAoC at its peak.

    Even old UO and its dated isometric graphics did better than DAoC until fall 2003.

     

    And of course if we count Asian games, Lineage was crushing everybody.

     

    I wouldn't call it a niche game, it was indeed one of the top western contenders back when there was little choice. Nowadays, a game like DAoC would tank faster than the Titanic after hitting that iceberg. It's only some nostalgic ex-DAoC players who think it was the best thing since sliced bread - the vast majority of MMO players even back then didn't.

    If you wonder why I don't answer your posts, it's most likely because you are on my block list - so don't waste your time.

    image

  • RimmersmanRimmersman MonacoPosts: 885Member
    Originally posted by shawn01

    When it was at it's peak DaoC was the number one MMO. 

    Sorry but the number one mmo up until WOW was alway EQ.

    image
  • Eir_SEir_S Argyle, NYPosts: 4,623Member

    I like how the OP was reported.  *shakes head* 

    I've only heard of Green Man gaming a few times and only on this forum.  The fact remains, whatever their actual list says, GW2 is still going strong.  That's all that matters.  It's currently riding high on Amazon, and is in fact the only MMO I see on the top downloads list (there's also a $4.99 EVE starter pack there).  It's even ahead of Far Cry 3 and The Walking Dead (Spike TV's so-called GOTY).

    I agree these threads don't need to be made, but only because it's obvious the game is doing well.

  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    Originally posted by botrytis
    Originally posted by shawn01
    I'm planning to give Age of Wushu and Darkfall Unholy Wars a try. Wishing someone would make DAoC 2 with all the same systems, just update the graphics.

     

    Date Population
    Launch 250,000
    July, 2002 210,000
    November, 2003 250,000
    2005 175,000
    2006 125,000
    2007 95,000
    January, 2008 50,000
    2009 20,000
    June, 2011 5,000
     

     

    This is from WIKI on DAoC - that is not alot of people (it is an estimate of population from Mythic data). I can understand why they don't want to make a game like it again - niche game.

    you forget

    EQ was what 450,000, SWG was 300,000, AC was 200,000

    If you compare to wow - EVERYTHING IS NICHE

  • Sevenstar61Sevenstar61 Centreville, VAPosts: 1,690Member Uncommon

    I found it interesting today that the only MMOs advertised in previews before the movie "Hobbit" (which I saw today :) was GW2 and WoW.

    Smart move in my opinion. Lots of people will see the movie and they will see the advertisement too.

    image
    Sith Warrior - Story of Hate and Love http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxKrlwXt7Ao
    Imperial Agent - Rise of Cipher Nine http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBBj3eJWBvU&feature=youtu.be
    Imperial Agent - Hunt for the Eagle Part 1http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQqjYYU128E

  • BanquettoBanquetto CityPosts: 1,037Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by greenreen
    Yeah, the article is outright lying about which is tops according to the source reference.

    Strong words. The Green Man chart clearly updates very frequently. A couple of people have pasted very different top 10's into this thread already, and looking at http://www.greenmangaming.com/pc-download/ right now, it's very different again. GW2 is at #3 at the moment, for what it's worth.


    I have no reason to believe it wasn't #1 when the story was written. But that may mean "#1 seller this hour". Or "this five minutes". Or anything.

  • greenreengreenreen Punchoo, AKPosts: 2,101Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by KingJiggly
    Originally posted by greenreen
    Originally posted by KingJiggly
    Originally posted by greenreen
    Originally posted by austriacus
    Originally posted by greenreen
    Originally posted by The_Korrigan
    Originally posted by greenreen
    Originally posted by The_Korrigan
    ...snip

    ...snip

    ...snip
    ...snip

    Wana know something funny? all those posts are after the karka patch. What does that mean? Orr nerfed and FotM introduced.

    Every single player is doing FotM, why would they do anything else? Best drops, exp and money.

    The open world is dead, thats for sure, the game itself is nowhere near close, evident by the number of overflows in lions arch.

    Yup, the ascended gear patch and the karka presentation just solidified it all for many people. The game changed and the players reflect that. I tried to get recent threads on the subject so it's natural that they are post karka but honestly, I don't remember anyone leaving in bulk on the game until after that stupid ascended gear was added.

    Sure, people were going slowly but I never saw them leave in chunks like the fractals introduced. The day I left there were 2 people talking about the future of it and what it would do - they were right, every bit of it has come to fruition. The reason we watch things like this is to be aware when they might occur again, same reason we relive anything from the past. Knowing the cycle and the outcome can help protect us against this happening in future, or at least recognizing it when it starts in games we are playing and have the forethought to jump out as early as we can. I don't think it's a disservice to analyze when decisions affect games though some take it as offensive to insult their pets.

    Anet has already stated they were wrong to implement the ascended gear that way, and plan to make changes so the gear is more widely distributed and accepted by the community. They were hasty in putting it there. However, the population has hardly changed, i still see dozens of people in each zone, and i am in the least opulated server. One thing anet must do is give some incentive to go back to lower lvl zones. 

    Well brother/sister what I would say to that is TRUE! They have admitted that they were hasty in releasing it with just a singular path when they advertised end game in your own way. They haven't though admitted to all other areas done in haste or unkept promises.

    I can though look at other things they said and haven't followed through on.

    Guesting will be in on release they claimed - still not sorted out and available.

    They said that they beta tested the game yet I still had lots of traits and skills not working as they claim and one profession had over 100 bugs noted. They haven't fixed those things. This was something they knew at release if they did beta testing.

    They claimed they would be getting rid of the invisible ppl in WvWvW, still seeing people complain about that so it's not solidly complete either.

    Karka, again, another hastily released item.

    They made an interview where they said over the next year they will be releasing more ascended gear, the entire set over about a year.

    Then they said that they will be doing spvp updates recently in as soon as 2 mos to have it all in place.

    I watched them take away the prices on food because people were making profit, they never fixed it and brought back the prices.

    They took out orbs in pvp, haven't finalized what will happen with those and if they will ever return.

    They took away the event rewards from escorting dolyaks in WvWvW because people were making money from it. That still isn't resolved.

    They seem to be quick to stop things but not quick to revisit the problem AND FIX IT. Is that a lot to ask - to fix the game that you brag about, to deserve an award because you did a good job instead of disabling everything that doesn't work right while consecutively moving on to the next thing you can do to keep people logged in ? Throw another event at them, they'll take it. Make them buy more boxes, they want to. That's all I hear in my head when they don't fix their gaping issues that many times, they created!

    They are saying a lot of things. My confidence with them is nil because they aren't performing what they say. I'm a lost cause because I drew the line at "we don't make grindy games" when I started grinding but I'm not the only one watching I'm sure.

    I'm looking at history saying to you - they "say" lots of things. Until they "do" them, they can't possibly regain any confidence in those hanging on a fence about the entire thing.

    You have little confidence in a game released four months ago, a game with one of the most complicated coding sytems amongst mmos? This game simply isnt a go and fetch game, you have events leading to other events and tons in between. You have several newer mechanics in mmos in gw2. Not to mention it is b2p. This entire game is basically one giant experiemnt at the moment, as anet has stated themselves.  They are testing the waters and innovating (yes, i said it, innovation) ideas. Fractals are probably one of the best solutions to dungeons i have seen. The rewards, ascended gear, were randomly thrown in to appease people like you who expect everything to be there and now. They have gained tons of confidence, seeing that they retIan high sales rates. They are performing based on reactions of the community, like an experiment as i said earlier, and changing based on those reactions, which they obviously recognize. Unlike of course the typical wow/ tor answer of working as intended. The only thing you are on is a high horse.

    Always the same, can't garner any defensive debate points so you resort to personal attacks or talk about things that weren't on the table. Go ahead, claim anything I stated to be a lie, you can't.

    The size of my horse is not the debate but attempt at insulting me personally taken, that means you are out of juice.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

  • greenreengreenreen Punchoo, AKPosts: 2,101Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Banquetto

     


    Originally posted by greenreen
    Yeah, the article is outright lying about which is tops according to the source reference.

     

    Strong words. The Green Man chart clearly updates very frequently. A couple of people have pasted very different top 10's into this thread already, and looking at http://www.greenmangaming.com/pc-download/ right now, it's very different again. GW2 is at #3 at the moment, for what it's worth.


    I have no reason to believe it wasn't #1 when the story was written. But that may mean "#1 seller this hour". Or "this five minutes". Or anything.

    Strong how, it was lying, we can't corroborate what they claimed in the article.
    It was marketing and the OP didn't notice or research it. Someone else did. I'd rather see a fact over rhetoric, wouldn't you. I have every reason to believe it was intentionally misleading because of the campaign links, what is it that you are basing your trust on? The company name of PC Gamer? Do you use Analytics, do you know what a campaign is. I deal with reality, not falsehood.

     

    What is a more appropriate word for what PC Gamer posted other than lying? Do share that word since you believe that I have incorrectly categorized it. They knew that people would read the article at least 1 minute after it was published and beyond that. What was the basis to publish the blurb other than to try to sway an audience that comes to an aggregate just to avoid researching for themselves.

     

    P.S. I don't care if that game was the most purchased in every outlet on the planet. They could be taking their own cash shop money and buying their own games. Sales are not a promise of people in the game. If you didn't see the sale and the person behind it and poll them on their ideas of the game AFTER they play it, you have no proof they will stay. The population was the heart of the matter and I believe the post. Also without actual sales, you have no clue what the numerical advantage is. What if a person buys 2 games on the top 10 list - where do they fit into this "sales trumps all" argument. It's no better than the people that use xfire to try to make predictions.

    Here, try this example with numbers behind it ( totally made up for this purchase) - then see if it makes any sense to know that you are trying to come up with a+b=c without having b in the equation. The same mistake that people make when they say that "Full" servers mean that the game is fine. They don't know if full is 200 people or 2k but just the word "Full" implies a capacity limit that is put there for marketing purposes. The fans will gloriously flaunt it though they can't even put together 5 man groups and need other server overflows to do it sometimes (already posted links to that).

     

    Scenario A

    1. Guild Wars 2 - 100,000 people purchased
    2. Far Cry 3 (EU Only) - 9 people purchased
    3. Tomb Raider (pre-purchase) -8 people purchased
    4. Borderlands 2 -7 - 7 people purchased
    5. XCOM: Enemy Unknown - 6 people purchased
    6. Chivalry: Medieval Warfare - 5 people purchased
    7. Battlefield 3 - 4 people purchased
    8. Assassin's Creed 3 - 3 people purchased
    9. Football Manager 2013 - 2 people purchased
    10. Hitman: Absolution - 1 person purchased

     

    Scenario B
    1. Guild Wars 2 - 10 people purchased
    2. Far Cry 3 (EU Only) - 9 people purchased
    3. Tomb Raider (pre-purchase) -8 people purchased
    4. Borderlands 2 -7 - 7 people purchased
    5. XCOM: Enemy Unknown - 6 people purchased
    6. Chivalry: Medieval Warfare - 5 people purchased
    7. Battlefield 3 - 4 people purchased
    8. Assassin's Creed 3 - 3 people purchased
    9. Football Manager 2013 - 2 people purchased
    10. Hitman: Absolution - 1 person purchased

    Which Scenario was in your mind when you read the topic without numbers behind it, which more closely matches it. Did you believe that all sales were 1 tick in difference or did your brain say - hey, the things on top usually have lots of headway - you don't need to give me numbers to prove it - my brain will infer it for you.

    Do you see any difference now, do you see that the popularity can be quantified with the entire equation. Still, at the end of the day, it doesn't equate to literal population increases. You don't have section b of the equation, you don't know the gap between the sales. There was a thread recently that claimed they banned over 30 THOUSAND bots - until they add in 30 THOUSAND new players, they have lost population by their own words.

     

     

     

     

  • KingJigglyKingJiggly Simpsonville, SCPosts: 777Member
    Originally posted by greenreen
    Originally posted by KingJiggly
    Originally posted by greenreen
    Originally posted by KingJiggly
    Originally posted by greenreen
    Originally posted by austriacus
    Originally posted by greenreen
    Originally posted by The_Korrigan
    Originally posted by greenreen
    Originally posted by The_Korrigan
    ...snip

    ...snip

    ...snip
    ...snip

    Wana know something funny? all those posts are after the karka patch. What does that mean? Orr nerfed and FotM introduced.

    Every single player is doing FotM, why would they do anything else? Best drops, exp and money.

    The open world is dead, thats for sure, the game itself is nowhere near close, evident by the number of overflows in lions arch.

    Yup, the ascended gear patch and the karka presentation just solidified it all for many people. The game changed and the players reflect that. I tried to get recent threads on the subject so it's natural that they are post karka but honestly, I don't remember anyone leaving in bulk on the game until after that stupid ascended gear was added.

    Sure, people were going slowly but I never saw them leave in chunks like the fractals introduced. The day I left there were 2 people talking about the future of it and what it would do - they were right, every bit of it has come to fruition. The reason we watch things like this is to be aware when they might occur again, same reason we relive anything from the past. Knowing the cycle and the outcome can help protect us against this happening in future, or at least recognizing it when it starts in games we are playing and have the forethought to jump out as early as we can. I don't think it's a disservice to analyze when decisions affect games though some take it as offensive to insult their pets.

    Anet has already stated they were wrong to implement the ascended gear that way, and plan to make changes so the gear is more widely distributed and accepted by the community. They were hasty in putting it there. However, the population has hardly changed, i still see dozens of people in each zone, and i am in the least opulated server. One thing anet must do is give some incentive to go back to lower lvl zones. 

    Well brother/sister what I would say to that is TRUE! They have admitted that they were hasty in releasing it with just a singular path when they advertised end game in your own way. They haven't though admitted to all other areas done in haste or unkept promises.

    I can though look at other things they said and haven't followed through on.

    Guesting will be in on release they claimed - still not sorted out and available.

    They said that they beta tested the game yet I still had lots of traits and skills not working as they claim and one profession had over 100 bugs noted. They haven't fixed those things. This was something they knew at release if they did beta testing.

    They claimed they would be getting rid of the invisible ppl in WvWvW, still seeing people complain about that so it's not solidly complete either.

    Karka, again, another hastily released item.

    They made an interview where they said over the next year they will be releasing more ascended gear, the entire set over about a year.

    Then they said that they will be doing spvp updates recently in as soon as 2 mos to have it all in place.

    I watched them take away the prices on food because people were making profit, they never fixed it and brought back the prices.

    They took out orbs in pvp, haven't finalized what will happen with those and if they will ever return.

    They took away the event rewards from escorting dolyaks in WvWvW because people were making money from it. That still isn't resolved.

    They seem to be quick to stop things but not quick to revisit the problem AND FIX IT. Is that a lot to ask - to fix the game that you brag about, to deserve an award because you did a good job instead of disabling everything that doesn't work right while consecutively moving on to the next thing you can do to keep people logged in ? Throw another event at them, they'll take it. Make them buy more boxes, they want to. That's all I hear in my head when they don't fix their gaping issues that many times, they created!

    They are saying a lot of things. My confidence with them is nil because they aren't performing what they say. I'm a lost cause because I drew the line at "we don't make grindy games" when I started grinding but I'm not the only one watching I'm sure.

    I'm looking at history saying to you - they "say" lots of things. Until they "do" them, they can't possibly regain any confidence in those hanging on a fence about the entire thing.

    You have little confidence in a game released four months ago, a game with one of the most complicated coding sytems amongst mmos? This game simply isnt a go and fetch game, you have events leading to other events and tons in between. You have several newer mechanics in mmos in gw2. Not to mention it is b2p. This entire game is basically one giant experiemnt at the moment, as anet has stated themselves.  They are testing the waters and innovating (yes, i said it, innovation) ideas. Fractals are probably one of the best solutions to dungeons i have seen. The rewards, ascended gear, were randomly thrown in to appease people like you who expect everything to be there and now. They have gained tons of confidence, seeing that they retIan high sales rates. They are performing based on reactions of the community, like an experiment as i said earlier, and changing based on those reactions, which they obviously recognize. Unlike of course the typical wow/ tor answer of working as intended. The only thing you are on is a high horse.

    Always the same, can't garner any defensive debate points so you resort to personal attacks or talk about things that weren't on the table. Go ahead, claim anything I stated to be a lie, you can't.

    The size of my horse is not the debate but attempt at insulting me personally taken, that means you are out of juice.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

    [mod edit]

    I believe what I stated are facts. Simply becuase you can't argue against them shows your position. I am sure anyone posting here will be kind enough to take what I said to be true, no game, especially one as complicated as GW2 will be smooth and perfect at launch or even a year from luanch. Dont say WoW expansions are, becuase adding one class is not comparable at all to a new full blown game. Look at tsw, swtor, gw2, the other couple hundred mmos you will find on this site. And I sware you will find that they are still going through balance.

    They have kept there promises fully, they have fixed what they can at the moment and are working on more. They are giving out FREE content to players, lost shores, halloween and now Christmas event. While they do have there intial problems, they are all implementations of a great idea that Anet can look at and say "hey, what can we fix here?". [mod edit]

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