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Finally .. no more sub games for me

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  • VengeSunsoarVengeSunsoar Posts: 5,316Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Laughing-man
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by CalmOceans
    Good luck on spending more on F2P to enjoy the game.

    Don't worry. I will join the majority of MMO players in the US, and pay nothing. I will let teh whales to subsidize my gaming. It is not like i haven't play F2P before, jsut that i have to wait till my annual pass is over before killing the last sub.

    Cool story?

    A majority of gamers don't pay?   Yeah.... keep on dreaming and wishing kiddo.

    F2P games are typically more costly on the consumer, oh and Aion is doing pretty bad right now with its truely free to play....

    We're going to see a lot of these free to play games go under and be cancled in the next year.  It was a failed experiment, Free to play games just can't last, they leave a bad taste in everyones' mouth.

     Several different studies from several different sources confirm this.  If you have data, other than your own subjective opinion, disputing this feel free to post it. 

    Aion was always doing bad in the west, in the east it is hugely successfull.

    F2P games have been around since before UO, therefore they are just as much of a failed experiment as p2p.

    Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  • xAPOCxxAPOCx Vineland, NJPosts: 869Member
    Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
    Originally posted by xAPOCx
    Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
    Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

    Yes it has.  More games, more players, more choice, more choice in how I play each game than most old games. 

     edit - so you admit you haven't established that there is a console mentality and yet you accuse someone of being a console gamer based on their statements, despite that those same statements state they don't have a console.  Yep makes sense to me. 

     I don't know what to say to the guy. He's just provoking just for the laughs I suppse. I thoroughly believe anything a console can do a PC/MAC or what have you can do better. My case still stands against this guy. I don't know any MMO's that bombard me with advertisements to buy from their cash shop.

    Once again. Im not the one that brought that up.

    You haven't brought anything to the table other than trying to offend people. You asked me to name F2P games that I've played that do not bombard me with advertisements, I gave you a few of the games that I played that didn't and decided to just give you a massive list of games that I've personally gone through. Then you accuse me to being a console gamer because I gave you a response.

     So, if you have nothing positive to bring to what we're talking about why are you still in this topic?

    Just one more time so that you can understand...

    I wasnt that one that said anything about adds in f2p games. i never asked for a list of the games you have played.

    I did however call you call console gamer becuase you talk like one. You are part of the entitelment crowd. Wants everything for free and whats other to pay for it.

    image

  • xAPOCxxAPOCx Vineland, NJPosts: 869Member
    Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
    Originally posted by xAPOCx
    Originally posted by Onomas
    Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

    Yes it has.  More games, more players, more choice, more choice in how I play each game than most old games. 

     

    Actualy you are getting less choice compared to older mmorpg's.

    You dont have features, player interaction, and so much more that older games provided. Thus you cant have more options and choices.

    This

    You have more choices as far as the games go, but the content inside the games might not be as much. I've spoken about this topic before in a few posts I've made this week. I believe that game studios are focusing too much on their graphics than the content they're putting into the game. However, in terms of games there's to play we do indeed have more choice.

    But why is that a good thing? Why is more good? i would rather have less and quality then more with quantity.

    image

  • VengeSunsoarVengeSunsoar Posts: 5,316Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by xAPOCx
    Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
    Originally posted by coxyroxy

    Your aware that TSW is now a non sub game once you have purchased it right?

    Much better than the so called FTP model. More games in the future should folllow Arenanet and FC with this model.

    I'm very aware that FC has turned to B2P, but they'll add a cash shop shortly. I personally believed that they would have done this anyways. The game screamed F2P from the start.

    Why did it screen f2p from the start? please tell us what it was about this game that said to you F2P.

     1.  The cash shop on day 1.

    2.  In an interview very early on one dev stated they have plans for f2p because they believed at some point they would need it.  Can't find the first interview in September they were talking about it

    http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012/09/18/funcom-secret-world-has-the-tools-to-go-f2p/

    "That said, we definitely have the tools to turn The Secret World into a free-to-play game – or even hybrid – should we decide to do that somewhere down the line"

    Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  • Mtibbs1989Mtibbs1989 Fredericksburg, VAPosts: 2,920Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by xAPOCx
    Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
    Originally posted by xAPOCx
    Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
    Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

    Yes it has.  More games, more players, more choice, more choice in how I play each game than most old games. 

     edit - so you admit you haven't established that there is a console mentality and yet you accuse someone of being a console gamer based on their statements, despite that those same statements state they don't have a console.  Yep makes sense to me. 

     I don't know what to say to the guy. He's just provoking just for the laughs I suppse. I thoroughly believe anything a console can do a PC/MAC or what have you can do better. My case still stands against this guy. I don't know any MMO's that bombard me with advertisements to buy from their cash shop.

    Once again. Im not the one that brought that up.

    You haven't brought anything to the table other than trying to offend people. You asked me to name F2P games that I've played that do not bombard me with advertisements, I gave you a few of the games that I played that didn't and decided to just give you a massive list of games that I've personally gone through. Then you accuse me to being a console gamer because I gave you a response.

     So, if you have nothing positive to bring to what we're talking about why are you still in this topic?

    Just one more time so that you can understand...

    I wasnt that one that said anything about adds in f2p games. i never asked for a list of the games you have played.

    I did however call you call console gamer becuase you talk like one. You are part of the entitelment crowd. Wants everything for free and whats other to pay for it.

    Then why are you here if you have nothing productive to add to the conversation?

    image

    Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
  • winterwinter El Paso, TXPosts: 2,276Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
    Originally posted by winter
    Originally posted by lizardbones

     


    Originally posted by BlueSage13

    Originally posted by nariusseldon The funny thing is that i am more than capable to deciding how to have fun, and some will come in speaking as if i won't be having any fun. Well ... if i am not .. i will do something else .. duh!
    Cause you have nothing invested in said game.

    Charging a player money for a game they don't have fun playing isn't going to make the game fun to play. If a player is having fun in a game, they will invest time into the game, even if they don't spend money on the game.

     

     and that makes them less of a parasite how?

     

    Please explain your comment a bit more.

     Easy enough. Every player in a game uses resources, bandwidth, power, CSR. (Don't think for a instant F2P players don't submit titckets if they get stuck or their ubersword suddenly disappears.) granted this may not be alot but it is something. As the F2P such as the OP doesn't pay for the the game (thats B2P) and has no intent of ever paying any money in the game. (Op states he expects whales ie big players to fund his free playing fun) this makes them a drain or parasite to it put bluntly on the game.

       In most F2P cases the player can't ascess most of the content thus making them worthless even as pug cannon fodder for the paying players.

      One could argue that the free to play player like the OP who already knows he's just in it for a month or 2 of free fun before skipping off to the next F2P title has little to  no care for the games community as such one would imagie they are more likely to be the games Asshats spamming how the game sucks compared to game X etc, or purposely wiping raids/ pugs they do get into as they have no long term commitment and are playing the game solely for their own fun.

      I imagine the Op has a job and probably has no trouble paying 15 dollars on a nights entertainment to see a movie, yet balks at paying said 15 dollars for a months entertainment as he can simply get it free and have others pay the bill.

      Perhaps this is a huge jump in reeasoning but how really is this different then say having a healthy 21 y/o decide he doesn't want to work and wants to live on welfare the rest of his life? Sure there are rich "whales" that will pay the taxes for him to do so but its still technically a parasitic relationship.

       Do games really benefit in any way from gamers that have decided to play for a few months to have the most fun they can  other players be damned and never pay anything to the games company/developers as we are all entiltled to free stuff since theres always someone how makes more then us etc.? I'm probably rocking the boat, might even get banned for what I wrote, and hell I'm neither rich nore a republican. I do however take responsibilty for myself and my actions. I pay for the entertainment I use because in the end I know nothing in this world is for free.

  • WhiteLanternWhiteLantern Nevada, MOPosts: 2,732Member Common
    Originally posted by xAPOCx
     

    Just one more time so that you can understand...

    I wasnt that one that said anything about adds in f2p games. i never asked for a list of the games you have played.

    I did however call you call console gamer becuase you talk like one. You are part of the entitelment crowd. Wants everything for free and whats other to pay for it.

    Are you suggesting these are the same? Because last I checked, console games were not free.

    I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil

  • VengeSunsoarVengeSunsoar Posts: 5,316Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by winter
    Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
    Originally posted by winter
    Originally posted by lizardbones

     


    Originally posted by BlueSage13

    Originally posted by nariusseldon The funny thing is that i am more than capable to deciding how to have fun, and some will come in speaking as if i won't be having any fun. Well ... if i am not .. i will do something else .. duh!
    Cause you have nothing invested in said game.

    Charging a player money for a game they don't have fun playing isn't going to make the game fun to play. If a player is having fun in a game, they will invest time into the game, even if they don't spend money on the game.

     

     and that makes them less of a parasite how?

     

    Please explain your comment a bit more.

     Easy enough. Every player in a game uses resources, bandwidth, power, CSR. (Don't think for a instant F2P players don't submit titckets if they get stuck or their ubersword suddenly disappears.) granted this may not be alot but it is something. As the F2P such as the OP doesn't pay for the the game (thats B2P) and has no intent of ever paying any money in the game. (Op states he expects whales ie big players to fund his free playing fun) this makes them a drain or parasite to it put bluntly on the game.

       In most F2P cases the player can't ascess most of the content thus making them worthless even as pug cannon fodder for the paying players.

      One could argue that the free to play player like the OP who already knows he's just in it for a month or 2 of free fun before skipping off to the next F2P title has little to  no care for the games community as such one would imagie they are more likely to be the games Asshats spamming how the game sucks compared to game X etc, or purposely wiping raids/ pugs they do get into as they have no long term commitment and are playing the game solely for their own fun.

      I imagine the Op has a job and probably has no trouble paying 15 dollars on a nights entertainment to see a movie, yet balks at paying said 15 dollars for a months entertainment as he can simply get it free and have others pay the bill.

      Perhaps this is a huge jump in reeasoning but how really is this different then say having a healthy 21 y/o decide he doesn't want to work and wants to live on welfare the rest of his life? Sure there are rich "whales" that will pay the taxes for him to do so but its still technically a parasitic relationship.

       Do games really benefit in any way from gamers that have decided to play for a few months to have the most fun they can  other players be damned and never pay anything to the games company/developers as we are all entiltled to free stuff since theres always someone how makes more then us etc.? I'm probably rocking the boat, might even get banned for what I wrote, and hell I'm neither rich nore a republican. I do however take responsibilty for myself and my actions. I pay for the entertainment I use because in the end I know nothing in this world is for free.

     

    Here's how F2P works:

    In a F2P MMO, the free players are often as important as the paying ones. The model is managed very differently from a subscription game. While there may very well be back of the queue prioritizing sometimes, the free player is understood to be a very valuable user of the service.

    Look at the home page for any F2P game and you will see there are constant events, festivals and special weekends. When you hop in game, you will often see there are GMs and staffers that are hanging out in channel, chatting with the players. The towns or NPCs are usually redecorated for holidays and events. This content is just as much for the free player as the paying player. The reason being is that the free players are, to a certain degree, content for paying players.

    Players being content for other players is absolutely true of subscription MMOs, as well. Veteran players will leave a server that feels ‘dead’. When new players log into a ‘dead’ server, they aren’t too likely to stick around. The vanity players need people to show their stuff off to, the entertainers need people to entertain, the raiders and grinders need people to group with, and the socialisers need people to chat with.

    In the F2P model, you already know that you’re only getting cash from a small percentage, so it’s not like you are putting much effort into getting cash from the rest – they had no intention of spending anything to begin with, so you focus your energies primarily on those who will. You concentrate your efforts in two areas

    • providing engaging content to bring in as many free players as you can
    • providing desirable items in the mall for the players looking to invest extra in their hobby/entertainment

    The vanity case isn’t going to buy new bling if there’s no one to show it off to.
    The raider/grinder isn’t going to buy the xp boosts if he doesn’t have players to group with or compete against. The socialiser isn’t going to run his tavern or buy new toys if he’s logging in and just playing alone.

    Without the free players, the paying ones quickly leave.

     

    originally posted by Loktofelt - think it answers the question rather nicely.

    Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  • Laughing-manLaughing-man Dublin, OHPosts: 3,415Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
    Originally posted by Laughing-man
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by CalmOceans
    Good luck on spending more on F2P to enjoy the game.

    Don't worry. I will join the majority of MMO players in the US, and pay nothing. I will let teh whales to subsidize my gaming. It is not like i haven't play F2P before, jsut that i have to wait till my annual pass is over before killing the last sub.

    Cool story?

    A majority of gamers don't pay?   Yeah.... keep on dreaming and wishing kiddo.

    F2P games are typically more costly on the consumer, oh and Aion is doing pretty bad right now with its truely free to play....

    We're going to see a lot of these free to play games go under and be cancled in the next year.  It was a failed experiment, Free to play games just can't last, they leave a bad taste in everyones' mouth.

     Several different studies from several different sources confirm this.  If you have data, other than your own subjective opinion, disputing this feel free to post it. 

    Aion was always doing bad in the west, in the east it is hugely successfull.

    F2P games have been around since before UO, therefore they are just as much of a failed experiment as p2p.

    Um how about falling NCSoft stock prices?   how about their layoffs and restructuring that is occuring?  Yeah...

    Sorry but NCSoft is doing much worse after the free to play transition...

    I googled NCSoft layoffs, they've lay'd off people multiple times this year already...

  • VengeSunsoarVengeSunsoar Posts: 5,316Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Laughing-man
    Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
    Originally posted by Laughing-man
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by CalmOceans
    Good luck on spending more on F2P to enjoy the game.

    Don't worry. I will join the majority of MMO players in the US, and pay nothing. I will let teh whales to subsidize my gaming. It is not like i haven't play F2P before, jsut that i have to wait till my annual pass is over before killing the last sub.

    Cool story?

    A majority of gamers don't pay?   Yeah.... keep on dreaming and wishing kiddo.

    F2P games are typically more costly on the consumer, oh and Aion is doing pretty bad right now with its truely free to play....

    We're going to see a lot of these free to play games go under and be cancled in the next year.  It was a failed experiment, Free to play games just can't last, they leave a bad taste in everyones' mouth.

     Several different studies from several different sources confirm this.  If you have data, other than your own subjective opinion, disputing this feel free to post it. 

    Aion was always doing bad in the west, in the east it is hugely successfull.

    F2P games have been around since before UO, therefore they are just as much of a failed experiment as p2p.

    Um how about falling NCSoft stock prices?   how about their layoffs and restructuring that is occuring?  Yeah...

    Sorry but NCSoft is doing much worse after the free to play transition...

    I googled NCSoft layoffs, they've lay'd off people multiple times this year already...

    So how does that support your view that most people do pay for f2p?  It seems that if a game company is doing worse after f2p, that then implies that most people are not paying. 

    Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  • Laughing-manLaughing-man Dublin, OHPosts: 3,415Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
    Originally posted by Laughing-man
    Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
    Originally posted by Laughing-man
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by CalmOceans
    Good luck on spending more on F2P to enjoy the game.

    Don't worry. I will join the majority of MMO players in the US, and pay nothing. I will let teh whales to subsidize my gaming. It is not like i haven't play F2P before, jsut that i have to wait till my annual pass is over before killing the last sub.

    Cool story?

    A majority of gamers don't pay?   Yeah.... keep on dreaming and wishing kiddo.

    F2P games are typically more costly on the consumer, oh and Aion is doing pretty bad right now with its truely free to play....

    We're going to see a lot of these free to play games go under and be cancled in the next year.  It was a failed experiment, Free to play games just can't last, they leave a bad taste in everyones' mouth.

     Several different studies from several different sources confirm this.  If you have data, other than your own subjective opinion, disputing this feel free to post it. 

    Aion was always doing bad in the west, in the east it is hugely successfull.

    F2P games have been around since before UO, therefore they are just as much of a failed experiment as p2p.

    Um how about falling NCSoft stock prices?   how about their layoffs and restructuring that is occuring?  Yeah...

    Sorry but NCSoft is doing much worse after the free to play transition...

    I googled NCSoft layoffs, they've lay'd off people multiple times this year already...

    So how does that support your view that most people don't pay for f2p?  It seems that if a game company is doing worse after f2p, that then implies that most people are not paying. 

    NCSoft, owners of Arenanet, and Aion..

    You know two very well known figure heads in the Free to Play industry?'

    Yeah... and yet that company is failing...

    Hmmm...

    The point is this, Free to play didn't save them.  Is it better than Pay to play?  Not for them.

  • VengeSunsoarVengeSunsoar Posts: 5,316Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Laughing-man
    Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
    Originally posted by Laughing-man
    Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
    Originally posted by Laughing-man
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by CalmOceans
    Good luck on spending more on F2P to enjoy the game.

    Don't worry. I will join the majority of MMO players in the US, and pay nothing. I will let teh whales to subsidize my gaming. It is not like i haven't play F2P before, jsut that i have to wait till my annual pass is over before killing the last sub.

    Cool story?

    A majority of gamers don't pay?   Yeah.... keep on dreaming and wishing kiddo.

    F2P games are typically more costly on the consumer, oh and Aion is doing pretty bad right now with its truely free to play....

    We're going to see a lot of these free to play games go under and be cancled in the next year.  It was a failed experiment, Free to play games just can't last, they leave a bad taste in everyones' mouth.

     Several different studies from several different sources confirm this.  If you have data, other than your own subjective opinion, disputing this feel free to post it. 

    Aion was always doing bad in the west, in the east it is hugely successfull.

    F2P games have been around since before UO, therefore they are just as much of a failed experiment as p2p.

    Um how about falling NCSoft stock prices?   how about their layoffs and restructuring that is occuring?  Yeah...

    Sorry but NCSoft is doing much worse after the free to play transition...

    I googled NCSoft layoffs, they've lay'd off people multiple times this year already...

    So how does that support your view that most people don't pay for f2p?  It seems that if a game company is doing worse after f2p, that then implies that most people are not paying. 

    NCSoft, owners of Arenanet, and Aion..

    You know two very well known figure heads in the Free to Play industry?'

    Yeah... and yet that company is failing...

    Hmmm...

    The point is this, Free to play didn't save them.  Is it better than Pay to play?  Not for them.

     Once again.

    You implied that most people DO pay for f2p.

    If a company is worse financially after switching to f2p, that implies they have less funds which means less people were paying.

    So how does a company doing worse mean that most will pay for f2p?

    f2p will not save a bad game.  The studies that you dispute say that the majority do NOT pay for f2p.

    Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  • ZekiahZekiah Aurora, COPosts: 2,499Member
    Originally posted by winter
    Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
    Originally posted by winter
    Originally posted by lizardbones

     


    Originally posted by BlueSage13

    Originally posted by nariusseldon The funny thing is that i am more than capable to deciding how to have fun, and some will come in speaking as if i won't be having any fun. Well ... if i am not .. i will do something else .. duh!
    Cause you have nothing invested in said game.

    Charging a player money for a game they don't have fun playing isn't going to make the game fun to play. If a player is having fun in a game, they will invest time into the game, even if they don't spend money on the game.

     

     and that makes them less of a parasite how?

     

    Please explain your comment a bit more.

     Easy enough. Every player in a game uses resources, bandwidth, power, CSR. (Don't think for a instant F2P players don't submit titckets if they get stuck or their ubersword suddenly disappears.) granted this may not be alot but it is something. As the F2P such as the OP doesn't pay for the the game (thats B2P) and has no intent of ever paying any money in the game. (Op states he expects whales ie big players to fund his free playing fun) this makes them a drain or parasite to it put bluntly on the game.

       In most F2P cases the player can't ascess most of the content thus making them worthless even as pug cannon fodder for the paying players.

      One could argue that the free to play player like the OP who already knows he's just in it for a month or 2 of free fun before skipping off to the next F2P title has little to  no care for the games community as such one would imagie they are more likely to be the games Asshats spamming how the game sucks compared to game X etc, or purposely wiping raids/ pugs they do get into as they have no long term commitment and are playing the game solely for their own fun.

      I imagine the Op has a job and probably has no trouble paying 15 dollars on a nights entertainment to see a movie, yet balks at paying said 15 dollars for a months entertainment as he can simply get it free and have others pay the bill.

      Perhaps this is a huge jump in reeasoning but how really is this different then say having a healthy 21 y/o decide he doesn't want to work and wants to live on welfare the rest of his life? Sure there are rich "whales" that will pay the taxes for him to do so but its still technically a parasitic relationship.

       Do games really benefit in any way from gamers that have decided to play for a few months to have the most fun they can  other players be damned and never pay anything to the games company/developers as we are all entiltled to free stuff since theres always someone how makes more then us etc.? I'm probably rocking the boat, might even get banned for what I wrote, and hell I'm neither rich nore a republican. I do however take responsibilty for myself and my actions. I pay for the entertainment I use because in the end I know nothing in this world is for free.

    That's a pretty good analogy although there are obviously a few more dynamics to it than that. I'd add to that the "junkie" and "addict" mentality whereas developers count on having plenty of ignorant gamers to fund their machine. Get 'em hooked on the game, introduce gambling and other paid devices to their *cough* "free" model and BAM!

    As they say, there's one born every second. image

    "Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky

  • VengeSunsoarVengeSunsoar Posts: 5,316Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Zekiah
    Originally posted by winter
    Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
    Originally posted by winter
    Originally posted by lizardbones

     


    Originally posted by BlueSage13

    Originally posted by nariusseldon The funny thing is that i am more than capable to deciding how to have fun, and some will come in speaking as if i won't be having any fun. Well ... if i am not .. i will do something else .. duh!
    Cause you have nothing invested in said game.

    Charging a player money for a game they don't have fun playing isn't going to make the game fun to play. If a player is having fun in a game, they will invest time into the game, even if they don't spend money on the game.

     

     and that makes them less of a parasite how?

     

    Please explain your comment a bit more.

     Easy enough. Every player in a game uses resources, bandwidth, power, CSR. (Don't think for a instant F2P players don't submit titckets if they get stuck or their ubersword suddenly disappears.) granted this may not be alot but it is something. As the F2P such as the OP doesn't pay for the the game (thats B2P) and has no intent of ever paying any money in the game. (Op states he expects whales ie big players to fund his free playing fun) this makes them a drain or parasite to it put bluntly on the game.

       In most F2P cases the player can't ascess most of the content thus making them worthless even as pug cannon fodder for the paying players.

      One could argue that the free to play player like the OP who already knows he's just in it for a month or 2 of free fun before skipping off to the next F2P title has little to  no care for the games community as such one would imagie they are more likely to be the games Asshats spamming how the game sucks compared to game X etc, or purposely wiping raids/ pugs they do get into as they have no long term commitment and are playing the game solely for their own fun.

      I imagine the Op has a job and probably has no trouble paying 15 dollars on a nights entertainment to see a movie, yet balks at paying said 15 dollars for a months entertainment as he can simply get it free and have others pay the bill.

      Perhaps this is a huge jump in reeasoning but how really is this different then say having a healthy 21 y/o decide he doesn't want to work and wants to live on welfare the rest of his life? Sure there are rich "whales" that will pay the taxes for him to do so but its still technically a parasitic relationship.

       Do games really benefit in any way from gamers that have decided to play for a few months to have the most fun they can  other players be damned and never pay anything to the games company/developers as we are all entiltled to free stuff since theres always someone how makes more then us etc.? I'm probably rocking the boat, might even get banned for what I wrote, and hell I'm neither rich nore a republican. I do however take responsibilty for myself and my actions. I pay for the entertainment I use because in the end I know nothing in this world is for free.

    That's a pretty good analogy although there are obviously a few more dynamics to it than that. I'd add to that the "junkie" and "addict" mentality whereas developers count on having plenty of ignorant gamers to fund their machine. Get 'em hooked on the game, introduce gambling and other paid devices to their *cough* "free" model and BAM!

    As they say, there's one born every second. image

     I wouldn't start talking about junkie and addict, especially as it relates to video games unless you have a thorough understanding of the medical and psychological causes of "addiction"  And since you referenced junkie and video games in the same breath, you don't. 

    HInt - There has not been any peer reviewed credible study linking addiction and games, there have been several refuting them.  Addiction as a word is being phased out in the medical community and moving towards receptor disregulation and abuse to reflect 2 different treatments and 2 diffent locus of control.  So far gaming seems to be abuse, not addiction.  And no anyone cannot get addicted to anything, but anyone can abuse anything. 

    Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  • Mtibbs1989Mtibbs1989 Fredericksburg, VAPosts: 2,920Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by winter
    Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
    Originally posted by winter
    Originally posted by lizardbones

     


    Originally posted by BlueSage13

    Originally posted by nariusseldon The funny thing is that i am more than capable to deciding how to have fun, and some will come in speaking as if i won't be having any fun. Well ... if i am not .. i will do something else .. duh!
    Cause you have nothing invested in said game.

    Charging a player money for a game they don't have fun playing isn't going to make the game fun to play. If a player is having fun in a game, they will invest time into the game, even if they don't spend money on the game.

     

     and that makes them less of a parasite how?

     

    Please explain your comment a bit more.

     Easy enough. Every player in a game uses resources, bandwidth, power, CSR. (Don't think for a instant F2P players don't submit titckets if they get stuck or their ubersword suddenly disappears.) granted this may not be alot but it is something. As the F2P such as the OP doesn't pay for the the game (thats B2P) and has no intent of ever paying any money in the game. (Op states he expects whales ie big players to fund his free playing fun) this makes them a drain or parasite to it put bluntly on the game.

       In most F2P cases the player can't ascess most of the content thus making them worthless even as pug cannon fodder for the paying players.

      One could argue that the free to play player like the OP who already knows he's just in it for a month or 2 of free fun before skipping off to the next F2P title has little to  no care for the games community as such one would imagie they are more likely to be the games Asshats spamming how the game sucks compared to game X etc, or purposely wiping raids/ pugs they do get into as they have no long term commitment and are playing the game solely for their own fun.

      I imagine the Op has a job and probably has no trouble paying 15 dollars on a nights entertainment to see a movie, yet balks at paying said 15 dollars for a months entertainment as he can simply get it free and have others pay the bill.

      Perhaps this is a huge jump in reeasoning but how really is this different then say having a healthy 21 y/o decide he doesn't want to work and wants to live on welfare the rest of his life? Sure there are rich "whales" that will pay the taxes for him to do so but its still technically a parasitic relationship.

       Do games really benefit in any way from gamers that have decided to play for a few months to have the most fun they can  other players be damned and never pay anything to the games company/developers as we are all entiltled to free stuff since theres always someone how makes more then us etc.? I'm probably rocking the boat, might even get banned for what I wrote, and hell I'm neither rich nore a republican. I do however take responsibilty for myself and my actions. I pay for the entertainment I use because in the end I know nothing in this world is for free.

    Well, of course there are going to be those parasites that don't ever invest a nickle into the game. But many companies have proven that the F2P makes more money than the subscription model. Which means that even with the parasite they're still making more off of the game.

    There aren't many games that I've played that exclude players from the majority of the content. Even so, those games that do have member specific areas aren't truly a F2P, they're a Freemium model which is essentially a subscription based game. It's like playing the trial verion of World of Warcraft and saying the F2P players aren't allowed to have equal access to the content.

    This is a possibility that something like that might happen, of course it's just as possible in a subscription game. You also have to know that most F2P games aren't as hardcore as WoW or EQ. Which means it doesn't take hours on end to clear instances. So when someone like this comes along it's not too hard to find a replacement and redo.

    That happens all the time, you can watch many things on the internet, Hulu offers free TV shows and movies that anyone can just go on and watch for free (I'm watching Hell's Kitchen right now). 

    I really don't know what to say to this, I'm completely against someone who's willing to abuse the system. To me it's essentially playing the system and I believe that's against the law (I think I might be wrong). I believe that the welfare system is a safety net to help get those who've fallen to get back up on their feet. It's not the same as a F2P game in my eyes.

     Playing a F2P game isn't a big sin or anything, it's not hurting anyone financially. In fact many companies have shown an increase in revenue from the F2P model. So even if someone is being a "leech" or a "parasite" the F2P model is showing to be a better model for companies. My conclusion is that the F2P model wouldn't exsist if it didn't work. Companies are looking to make money in the end and if their F2P game wasn't making the money the game wouldn't exsist for long.

    image

    Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
  • Mtibbs1989Mtibbs1989 Fredericksburg, VAPosts: 2,920Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Laughing-man
    Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
    Originally posted by Laughing-man
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by CalmOceans
    Good luck on spending more on F2P to enjoy the game.

    Don't worry. I will join the majority of MMO players in the US, and pay nothing. I will let teh whales to subsidize my gaming. It is not like i haven't play F2P before, jsut that i have to wait till my annual pass is over before killing the last sub.

    Cool story?

    A majority of gamers don't pay?   Yeah.... keep on dreaming and wishing kiddo.

    F2P games are typically more costly on the consumer, oh and Aion is doing pretty bad right now with its truely free to play....

    We're going to see a lot of these free to play games go under and be cancled in the next year.  It was a failed experiment, Free to play games just can't last, they leave a bad taste in everyones' mouth.

     Several different studies from several different sources confirm this.  If you have data, other than your own subjective opinion, disputing this feel free to post it. 

    Aion was always doing bad in the west, in the east it is hugely successfull.

    F2P games have been around since before UO, therefore they are just as much of a failed experiment as p2p.

    Um how about falling NCSoft stock prices?   how about their layoffs and restructuring that is occuring?  Yeah...

    Sorry but NCSoft is doing much worse after the free to play transition...

    I googled NCSoft layoffs, they've lay'd off people multiple times this year already...

    F2P transition? Are you kidding? GW2 has never transitioned from anything, they're first game was B2P and their second game was B2P. Your point is invalid.

    image

    Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
  • Cephus404Cephus404 Redlands, CAPosts: 3,675Member
    Originally posted by Adalwulff
    Takes more cash to win F2P games than sub games, but if you dont mind losing a lot, then your on the right path!

    And for those of us who don't give a damn about "winning"?  Stop your dick-waving and just have fun for once!

    Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
    Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
    Now Playing: None
    Hope: None

  • Cephus404Cephus404 Redlands, CAPosts: 3,675Member
    Originally posted by xAPOCx
    Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
    Originally posted by coxyroxy

    Your aware that TSW is now a non sub game once you have purchased it right?

    Much better than the so called FTP model. More games in the future should folllow Arenanet and FC with this model.

    I'm very aware that FC has turned to B2P, but they'll add a cash shop shortly. I personally believed that they would have done this anyways. The game screamed F2P from the start.

    Why did it screen f2p from the start? please tell us what it was about this game that said to you F2P.

    You mean other than the fact that every other game Funcom had were F2P?

    Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
    Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
    Now Playing: None
    Hope: None

  • xAPOCxxAPOCx Vineland, NJPosts: 869Member
    Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
    Originally posted by xAPOCx
    Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
    Originally posted by xAPOCx
    Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
    Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

    Yes it has.  More games, more players, more choice, more choice in how I play each game than most old games. 

     edit - so you admit you haven't established that there is a console mentality and yet you accuse someone of being a console gamer based on their statements, despite that those same statements state they don't have a console.  Yep makes sense to me. 

     I don't know what to say to the guy. He's just provoking just for the laughs I suppse. I thoroughly believe anything a console can do a PC/MAC or what have you can do better. My case still stands against this guy. I don't know any MMO's that bombard me with advertisements to buy from their cash shop.

    Once again. Im not the one that brought that up.

    You haven't brought anything to the table other than trying to offend people. You asked me to name F2P games that I've played that do not bombard me with advertisements, I gave you a few of the games that I played that didn't and decided to just give you a massive list of games that I've personally gone through. Then you accuse me to being a console gamer because I gave you a response.

     So, if you have nothing positive to bring to what we're talking about why are you still in this topic?

    Just one more time so that you can understand...

    I wasnt that one that said anything about adds in f2p games. i never asked for a list of the games you have played.

    I did however call you call console gamer becuase you talk like one. You are part of the entitelment crowd. Wants everything for free and whats other to pay for it.

    Then why are you here if you have nothing productive to add to the conversation?

    Im here because i had something to say about OUR conversation and that was you act and think like a console gamer. Now with that i hope our conversation is over.

    image

  • xAPOCxxAPOCx Vineland, NJPosts: 869Member
    Originally posted by WhiteLantern
    Originally posted by xAPOCx
     

    Just one more time so that you can understand...

    I wasnt that one that said anything about adds in f2p games. i never asked for a list of the games you have played.

    I did however call you call console gamer becuase you talk like one. You are part of the entitelment crowd. Wants everything for free and whats other to pay for it.

    Are you suggesting these are the same? Because last I checked, console games were not free.

    yes. maybe not brother and sister but definitely cousins.

    image

  • Mtibbs1989Mtibbs1989 Fredericksburg, VAPosts: 2,920Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by xAPOCx
    Originally posted by WhiteLantern
    Originally posted by xAPOCx
     

    Just one more time so that you can understand...

    I wasnt that one that said anything about adds in f2p games. i never asked for a list of the games you have played.

    I did however call you call console gamer becuase you talk like one. You are part of the entitelment crowd. Wants everything for free and whats other to pay for it.

    Are you suggesting these are the same? Because last I checked, console games were not free.

    yes. maybe not brother and sister but definitely cousins.

    Explain the similarities, I don't see how you're matching console gamers to the entitlement crowd. F2P games are "free" but no where in the long run are they easy. They often take much longer to get to the endgame and the vast majority rarely ever do see the endgame due to the amount of work and effort put into them. So in the long run they typically deter the entitlement crowd from them.

    image

    Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
  • GhavriggGhavrigg Halifax, NSPosts: 777Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
    Originally posted by Aviggin

    Yeah, because F2P games don't have people with elitist mindsets.... right.

    FYI, people are the same in every game. The difference is that, with a sub, you actually are entitled to 99.9% of the content in the game, and your gameplay is not continuously disturbed by advertisements and restrictions trying to get you to buy things from a cash shop.

    That in itself is worth the sub fee, in my opinion. F2P games in general just feel inferior in nearly every way and quickly become annoying, at least to me.

    So, when you pay the fee of 15 dollars that .1% is the 20-30 items in the cash shops these subscription based games are implimenting? Are you no entitled to the the celestial mounts that they add? Or the special pets that they're selling? Are those not entitled for the loyal customers that have been with them for so many years?

    I don't play games where my gameplay is being continuously bombarded by advertisements, to tell you the truth, I don't know any in a very long time that have done that. I suppose there's a hidden section of MMO's that you're playing that I haven't noticed. Because I'm played 2-3 right now and I have yet to receive these "advertisements".

    Lol btw, if anyone noticed :3 Have a merry Christmas, and happy holidays!

    The mounts on the side don't really matter as long as the rest of the game is completely open, because all the mounts do is add something incredibly small.

    Almost every F2P game I've played has had restricted items that made me purchase something to unlock them, constantly had loading screens telling me about the cash shop stuff, have an icon or multiple icons on the screen leading to the cash shop, constantly having pop ups telling me that I can do this and that if I drop the money.

    I'm gonna flip this and ask what games you're actually playing that DOESN'T do this, and maybe I'll give it a go.

  • VengeSunsoarVengeSunsoar Posts: 5,316Member Uncommon

    I've played several f2p and while there were things I wanted in the cs there was nothing I needed.  And the only advertisements I saw where in emails (not in game mail) and when I first load up the game at the same time as the update.  I've never had an ingame advertisement pop up or load screen.

    FE, Aion, EQ, EQ2, CoH, CO so far and a few others I've forgotten about.  Not one pop up or load screen after the initial game loading up. 

    Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  • Mtibbs1989Mtibbs1989 Fredericksburg, VAPosts: 2,920Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Aviggin
    Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
    Originally posted by Aviggin

    Yeah, because F2P games don't have people with elitist mindsets.... right.

    FYI, people are the same in every game. The difference is that, with a sub, you actually are entitled to 99.9% of the content in the game, and your gameplay is not continuously disturbed by advertisements and restrictions trying to get you to buy things from a cash shop.

    That in itself is worth the sub fee, in my opinion. F2P games in general just feel inferior in nearly every way and quickly become annoying, at least to me.

    So, when you pay the fee of 15 dollars that .1% is the 20-30 items in the cash shops these subscription based games are implimenting? Are you no entitled to the the celestial mounts that they add? Or the special pets that they're selling? Are those not entitled for the loyal customers that have been with them for so many years?

    I don't play games where my gameplay is being continuously bombarded by advertisements, to tell you the truth, I don't know any in a very long time that have done that. I suppose there's a hidden section of MMO's that you're playing that I haven't noticed. Because I'm played 2-3 right now and I have yet to receive these "advertisements".

    Lol btw, if anyone noticed :3 Have a merry Christmas, and happy holidays!

    The mounts on the side don't really matter as long as the rest of the game is completely open, because all the mounts do is add something incredibly small.

    Almost every F2P game I've played has had restricted items that made me purchase something to unlock them, constantly had loading screens telling me about the cash shop stuff, have an icon or multiple icons on the screen leading to the cash shop, constantly having pop ups telling me that I can do this and that if I drop the money.

    I'm gonna flip this and ask what games you're actually playing that DOESN'T do this, and maybe I'll give it a go.

     I'm not saing that you're lying or anything but I have not seen any games that are doing what you're stating.  Maybe you could help me out and point me to these games that are doing it, but when I play a F2P game the advertisements are usually through e-mail or on their main page where they hold events.

     Right now I'm playing a game called Knightage Online. I was playing Maplestory two days ago. I tried Forsaken Worlds and was playing my account on Perfect World Online. FlyFF doesn't have massive advertisements and Scions of Fate doesn't either. There are a lot more games but I'd rather not keep going down the list because it's long.

    Like I stated earlier in this post, please give me the games that you experienced in-game advertisements.

    image

    Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by Aviggin

    Almost every F2P game I've played has had restricted items that made me purchase something to unlock them, constantly had loading screens telling me about the cash shop stuff, have an icon or multiple icons on the screen leading to the cash shop, constantly having pop ups telling me that I can do this and that if I drop the money.

    I'm gonna flip this and ask what games you're actually playing that DOESN'T do this, and maybe I'll give it a go.

    PS2 .. never have anything pop up when i am playing.

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