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How can lifetimers get back at Funcom?

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  • RoinRoin Baltimore, MDPosts: 2,927Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Traugar
    Originally posted by Vesavius
    Originally posted by Traugar

    OP why do you want to get back at Funcom?  Obviously something about the game interested you or you wouldn't have bought a lifetime sub to begin with.  And obviously you like the game, or else you wouldn't still be playing it.  This is a way for them to continue to pay for a game that you like, and give you people to play with.  The alternative could mean a game that you like being taken offline. So why are you complaining?  They give you all kinds of benefits, and still you complain.  They do so in an attempt to get more people into a game that you like, and still you complain.  I really don't understand your attitude. 

     

    Maybe he just dosen't like being lied to... I'm not sure.

    I have a lifetime sub, and for the life of me I can't find where I was lied to.  I was told they would give me a snakeskin jacket, some other crap, reserved name, extra character slot, 10% discount in the shop, and that I would never have to pay a sub.  I am still getting all that plus some cash for the shop. So I guess if you want to call it a lie that they are giving me more than I payed for then yea I guess you could say they lied to us.  

    Don't drag logic into this argument. The op didn't when he created the post. So no need for them now image. Personally as a lifer I'm very happy with the change. Enough points to buy a DLC if I "want" to.  If I do not "want" to I can use the points for something else.  My subscription is still free.  Still got all the items I had when I originally became a lifer.  A 20% discount in the store, and free item every month.  Just more proof that people will complain about anything.

    In War - Victory.
    In Peace - Vigilance.
    In Death - Sacrifice.

  • docluedemandocluedeman Ft. Campbell, KYPosts: 10Member

    I think the o.p. needs to step away from the keyboard for a bit and try to regain some perspective.

    I've read and re-read the terms of service and the end user license agreement as well as every other bit of documentation I could find and I fail to see where anyone was being lied to about...well, anything.

  • VikingGamerVikingGamer Nowhere, TXPosts: 1,348Member Uncommon

    How is this a surprise? Of course you could see it coming from the very beginning. At first I figured F2P, but as soon as they announced the first Issue, you could see that it would likely go B2P. The model simply fits.

    And yes, I still bought the lifetime sub. Why?

    Uh, because it is a good game? Because there are usually good perk for being a lifer even in a free game?

    Am I still happy that I bought it know that I know about the change? Yes.

     

    Consider this. The people who bought the SWTOR CE payed almost as much for that as TSW lifers (75% as much) What did they get for all that money in the now free SWTOR? About $10 is store credit. ONE TIME ONLY! Oh, and an ingame banner. woohoo!

    I am thinking the additional $50 for the TSW Lifetime sub was well spent.

     

    All die, so die well.

  • orionblackorionblack Wichita Falls, TXPosts: 474Member Uncommon

    Just to let you know, your question is probably covered in the term of agreement contarct you signed when you first logged in to play. They (Funcom) more than likely covered themselves somewhere in there if you just look for it.

    If I can find a ToS agrrement some where i'll help ya out.

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member


    Originally posted by fallenlords
    Originally posted by lizardbones What is the material change that happened to the Lifetime Subscribers? What do the Lifetime Subscribers not have now, that they had before? There is no case here. Unless of course you want to get into little known legal things that nobody here is qualified to discuss. Oh, and said legal things that would cost any lifetime subscriber far more money than they would get back from Funcom. ** edit ** I haven't seen anyone answer the question yet. What actually changed for the Lifetime Subscribers?  
    Thing is the customer you annoy today will not be a customer tomorrow.   I would call for Funcom to refund any dissatisfied customer as a gesture of good will.  Probably most will stay if they were presented with more than one option, but they have no options they are just being dictated too.    That tends to annoy people because any sort of contract is a two way commitment, not one way. The customer in this case has not moved the goal posts, Funcom have.  They need to appease the customer.


    You responded to my post, so thank you.

    You did not answer the only question that seems relevant. What have the lifetime subscribers lost? In what way has Funcom hurt the people who purchased a Lifetime Subscription?

    I understand what happened. They removed the subscription cost. Will someone please connect the dots from dropping the subscription cost to the way that Lifetime Subscribers have been hurt or where they've had something taken from them? What did they lose?

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • YamotaYamota LondonPosts: 6,620Member
    Originally posted by lizardbones

     


    Originally posted by fallenlords

    Originally posted by lizardbones What is the material change that happened to the Lifetime Subscribers? What do the Lifetime Subscribers not have now, that they had before? There is no case here. Unless of course you want to get into little known legal things that nobody here is qualified to discuss. Oh, and said legal things that would cost any lifetime subscriber far more money than they would get back from Funcom. ** edit ** I haven't seen anyone answer the question yet. What actually changed for the Lifetime Subscribers?  
    Thing is the customer you annoy today will not be a customer tomorrow.   I would call for Funcom to refund any dissatisfied customer as a gesture of good will.  Probably most will stay if they were presented with more than one option, but they have no options they are just being dictated too.    That tends to annoy people because any sort of contract is a two way commitment, not one way. The customer in this case has not moved the goal posts, Funcom have.  They need to appease the customer.

    You responded to my post, so thank you.

    You did not answer the only question that seems relevant. What have the lifetime subscribers lost? In what way has Funcom hurt the people who purchased a Lifetime Subscription?

    I understand what happened. They removed the subscription cost. Will someone please connect the dots from dropping the subscription cost to the way that Lifetime Subscribers have been hurt or where they've had something taken from them? What did they lose?

     

    It is quite simple. I sell you a car, including lifetime of repairs, for X amount of money. Then one month later I sell the same car, including life of repairs for 1/10th of X amount of money,

    Obviously the previous buyer would be pissed. However I dont think there is a legal leg to stand on. Gaming companies have the right to change their pricing as they like.

  • orionblackorionblack Wichita Falls, TXPosts: 474Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Yamota
    Originally posted by lizardbones

     


    Originally posted by fallenlords

    Originally posted by lizardbones What is the material change that happened to the Lifetime Subscribers? What do the Lifetime Subscribers not have now, that they had before? There is no case here. Unless of course you want to get into little known legal things that nobody here is qualified to discuss. Oh, and said legal things that would cost any lifetime subscriber far more money than they would get back from Funcom. ** edit ** I haven't seen anyone answer the question yet. What actually changed for the Lifetime Subscribers?  
    Thing is the customer you annoy today will not be a customer tomorrow.   I would call for Funcom to refund any dissatisfied customer as a gesture of good will.  Probably most will stay if they were presented with more than one option, but they have no options they are just being dictated too.    That tends to annoy people because any sort of contract is a two way commitment, not one way. The customer in this case has not moved the goal posts, Funcom have.  They need to appease the customer.

    You responded to my post, so thank you.

    You did not answer the only question that seems relevant. What have the lifetime subscribers lost? In what way has Funcom hurt the people who purchased a Lifetime Subscription?

    I understand what happened. They removed the subscription cost. Will someone please connect the dots from dropping the subscription cost to the way that Lifetime Subscribers have been hurt or where they've had something taken from them? What did they lose?

     

    It is quite simple. I sell you a car, including lifetime of repairs, for X amount of money. Then one month later I sell the same car, including life of repairs for 1/10th of X amount of money,

    Obviously the previous buyer would be pissed. However I dont think there is a legal leg to stand on. Gaming companies have the right to change their pricing as they like.

    Kind of doesn't make sense, since what i'm getting as a free to play account does not equal to your lifetime account.

     

    Also I am wondering are they still available , the life time account options ??

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member


    Originally posted by Yamota

    Originally posted by lizardbones  

    Originally posted by fallenlords

    Originally posted by lizardbones What is the material change that happened to the Lifetime Subscribers? What do the Lifetime Subscribers not have now, that they had before? There is no case here. Unless of course you want to get into little known legal things that nobody here is qualified to discuss. Oh, and said legal things that would cost any lifetime subscriber far more money than they would get back from Funcom. ** edit ** I haven't seen anyone answer the question yet. What actually changed for the Lifetime Subscribers?  
    Thing is the customer you annoy today will not be a customer tomorrow.   I would call for Funcom to refund any dissatisfied customer as a gesture of good will.  Probably most will stay if they were presented with more than one option, but they have no options they are just being dictated too.    That tends to annoy people because any sort of contract is a two way commitment, not one way. The customer in this case has not moved the goal posts, Funcom have.  They need to appease the customer.
    You responded to my post, so thank you. You did not answer the only question that seems relevant. What have the lifetime subscribers lost? In what way has Funcom hurt the people who purchased a Lifetime Subscription? I understand what happened. They removed the subscription cost. Will someone please connect the dots from dropping the subscription cost to the way that Lifetime Subscribers have been hurt or where they've had something taken from them? What did they lose?  
    It is quite simple. I sell you a car, including lifetime of repairs, for X amount of money. Then one month later I sell the same car, including life of repairs for 1/10th of X amount of money,

    Obviously the previous buyer would be pissed. However I dont think there is a legal leg to stand on. Gaming companies have the right to change their pricing as they like.



    How is that different from every single other video game that's every been written? Aside from Blizzard titles and (so far) Guild Wars 2?

    ** edit **
    You also left out the car dealer delivering a bottled coke to the person who first bought the car once a month.

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • NephaeriusNephaerius Baltimore, MDPosts: 1,539Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by orionblack 

    Also I am wondering are they still available , the life time account options ??

    Yes you can still purchase a lifetime sub.

    Steam: Neph

  • YamotaYamota LondonPosts: 6,620Member
    Originally posted by orionblack
    Originally posted by Yamota
    Originally posted by lizardbones

     


    Originally posted by fallenlords

    Originally posted by lizardbones What is the material change that happened to the Lifetime Subscribers? What do the Lifetime Subscribers not have now, that they had before? There is no case here. Unless of course you want to get into little known legal things that nobody here is qualified to discuss. Oh, and said legal things that would cost any lifetime subscriber far more money than they would get back from Funcom. ** edit ** I haven't seen anyone answer the question yet. What actually changed for the Lifetime Subscribers?  
    Thing is the customer you annoy today will not be a customer tomorrow.   I would call for Funcom to refund any dissatisfied customer as a gesture of good will.  Probably most will stay if they were presented with more than one option, but they have no options they are just being dictated too.    That tends to annoy people because any sort of contract is a two way commitment, not one way. The customer in this case has not moved the goal posts, Funcom have.  They need to appease the customer.

    You responded to my post, so thank you.

    You did not answer the only question that seems relevant. What have the lifetime subscribers lost? In what way has Funcom hurt the people who purchased a Lifetime Subscription?

    I understand what happened. They removed the subscription cost. Will someone please connect the dots from dropping the subscription cost to the way that Lifetime Subscribers have been hurt or where they've had something taken from them? What did they lose?

     

    It is quite simple. I sell you a car, including lifetime of repairs, for X amount of money. Then one month later I sell the same car, including life of repairs for 1/10th of X amount of money,

    Obviously the previous buyer would be pissed. However I dont think there is a legal leg to stand on. Gaming companies have the right to change their pricing as they like.

    Kind of doesn't make sense, since what i'm getting as a free to play account does not equal to your lifetime account.

     

    Also I am wondering are they still available , the life time account options ??

    There is no free to play account, the game is buy to play. But yes they do not equal the lifetime accounts but, what I guess the OP feels, is that the difference is negligeble. Also allegedly Funcom said they would not go F2P? Which is technically true because they went B2P but I dont think that matters to people who shelled out 100+ for the lifetime sub.

    Personally I dont see an issue because the game is tanking so they are now basically offering a lighter "lifetime account" at a heavily reduced price. Happens with any game that does not sell well.

    Also I dont understand why, in this age of F2P/B2P conversions, anyone would pay for a lifetime account. Just dont.

  • winterwinter El Paso, TXPosts: 2,276Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Mardukk
    Originally posted by anthonyc999
    explain to me how this is a bad thing for life timers they get 
    • Every month Grandmaster accounts will receive $10 worth of Bonus Points. These points are valid for 6 months and can be used towards any Item Store purchase.
    • Every month Grandmaster accounts will receive the Item-of-the-month: a special gift to all Membership accounts to the game.
    • As a Grandmaster you receive a permanent item: The Time Accelerator. This item is available to all your characters and increases your experience gain by 100% for one hour and has a 16 hour cool-down!
    Further, what used to be a discount of 10% discount to only social items in the Item Store has now been extended to be a discount on everything in the store. As members are getting a 10% discount to everything in the store, Grandmasters now receive a 20% discount! 
    which technically is more then what we would have gotten if the game didnt go B2P?

    Don't cloud their arguments with facts...

     ^This^

     of course for some people the QQ'ing and whine reflex kicks in before their minds actually have time to think things through.

     "What Funcoms giving me more for my lifetime subscription then i would have gotten before they went B2P? Those bastards!"

  • orionblackorionblack Wichita Falls, TXPosts: 474Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Yamota
    Originally posted by orionblack
    Originally posted by Yamota
    Originally posted by lizardbones

     


    Originally posted by fallenlords

    Originally posted by lizardbones What is the material change that happened to the Lifetime Subscribers? What do the Lifetime Subscribers not have now, that they had before? There is no case here. Unless of course you want to get into little known legal things that nobody here is qualified to discuss. Oh, and said legal things that would cost any lifetime subscriber far more money than they would get back from Funcom. ** edit ** I haven't seen anyone answer the question yet. What actually changed for the Lifetime Subscribers?  
    Thing is the customer you annoy today will not be a customer tomorrow.   I would call for Funcom to refund any dissatisfied customer as a gesture of good will.  Probably most will stay if they were presented with more than one option, but they have no options they are just being dictated too.    That tends to annoy people because any sort of contract is a two way commitment, not one way. The customer in this case has not moved the goal posts, Funcom have.  They need to appease the customer.

    You responded to my post, so thank you.

    You did not answer the only question that seems relevant. What have the lifetime subscribers lost? In what way has Funcom hurt the people who purchased a Lifetime Subscription?

    I understand what happened. They removed the subscription cost. Will someone please connect the dots from dropping the subscription cost to the way that Lifetime Subscribers have been hurt or where they've had something taken from them? What did they lose?

     

    It is quite simple. I sell you a car, including lifetime of repairs, for X amount of money. Then one month later I sell the same car, including life of repairs for 1/10th of X amount of money,

    Obviously the previous buyer would be pissed. However I dont think there is a legal leg to stand on. Gaming companies have the right to change their pricing as they like.

    Kind of doesn't make sense, since what i'm getting as a free to play account does not equal to your lifetime account.

     

    Also I am wondering are they still available , the life time account options ??

    There is no free to play account, the game is buy to play. But yes they do not equal the lifetime accounts but, what I guess the OP feels, is that the difference is negligeble. Also allegedly Funcom said they would not go F2P? Which is technically true because they went B2P but I dont think that matters to people who shelled out 100+ for the lifetime sub.

    Personally I dont see an issue because the game is tanking so they are now basically offering a lighter "lifetime account" at a heavily reduced price. Happens with any game that does not sell well.

    Also I dont understand why, in this age of F2P/B2P conversions, anyone would pay for a lifetime account. Just dont.

    Sorry buy to play ^^. Well i was asking since you know you get all the furture content , but just saw that the expansions will be in the 5-10$ range, so that does not seem bad at all.

     

    As for all you guys that are upset over this, I can only point out another mmo that has gone "f2p" within the year and doesn't get it. SWTOR...nuff; said. image

  • DeadvoltDeadvolt Ottawa, ONPosts: 55Member
    I personally see lifetimers as a sort of "investment" in the game. Let's be honest, most sub games are turning into either cash shop or B2P (with a few excepts like WoW and Rift, etc). Lifetimers are basically getting the subs out of the way, but most games that have offered this option have gone f2p, and what do you get? You get an in game currency every month and a bunch of other perks. The currency typically is usable for expansions, and that's what lifetimers are getting: a lot of perks, and investing in the game so in the future they can buy all the expansions using in game currency which they're paid out each month. You're paying up front for the whole of the game's life. This is how it's been for me with my lotro lifetime sub, as well as TSW. The big thing is, you have to like the game enough to be able to come back to it after you take breaks. That's not the case for me an lotro because that's become pay to win (and so I kinda got burned on my lifetime sub, but hey, that's "investing"), compared to TSW which seems mostly cosmetic and I love how different the game is.

    Ganking? Me!? That's absurd!! I leave THAT to the lawyers!

  • Twilight33Twilight33 San Marcos, TXPosts: 36Member

    any educated person who bought the lifetime subscription did it fully knowing this would happen. thus why the majority of us have no problem with this change.

    look at the track record of any funcom game. they have all switched to this model with similar lifetime benifits.

    the only issue i have with my benifits is the expiration on my points.

    image
  • therain93therain93 Winthrop, MAPosts: 2,039Member
    Originally posted by dancingstar
    Originally posted by therain93

    I don't play TSW, but this is a bit like the City of Heroes Freedom model....and it seems like people don't fully get it, just like when CoH went to that hybrid pay model.

    People have already pointed out that benefits of the lifetime sub, most notably the monthly stipend and the discount you get to use in the store -- that alone is makes it a great deal. 

    BUT, the other benefit of B2P is that, even with no sub, Funcom has eliminated what might be a huge barrier to entry, especially at gifting times like right now.  How does that beneft lifetime subbers?  Well, the reality is that a lifetime subber is going to likely be there forever and regular subbers will eventually leave, meaning the lifetimers would have a dwindling group of people to play with.  Eliminating the sub eliminates a reason why people will stop playing the game.  Assuming the quality of the game is decent, then lifetimers will likely have a larger pool of people to play with and if they have a larger pool of people to play with, then they'll likely stick around....and buy more cash shop items....  Everyone basically benefits, including those that don't want to make an investment in a subscription.

    I didn't play CoH past the starting zones (after F2P), but as far as I can tell -- no. Specifically I logged out and uninstalled after having the cash shop pretty much thrown in my face at the end of the tutorial instance. But in that game I recall a large number of character creation options, both in terms of appearance and archetypes / powers being locked behind cash shop unlocks or quasi-subs. Perhaps someone can correct me on this.

    Your other points I largely agree with. I am saddened that this game has not managed to sell enough copies & retain enough players to continue on the original model, but I am not raging against FC (if it ends up like LOTRO another six months down the line I may well change my position, of course . . .) or making comical threats of legal action.

    It doesn't so much matter now, given the game was closed (and this wouldn't be the ideal forum for it), but the amount that was behind the cash shop versus what was availalble free in game was relatively small.

  • KuppaKuppa Boulder, COPosts: 3,292Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by bcbully
    Originally posted by Kuppa
    Originally posted by Ortwig

    Plain silliness -- lifers are making out best of all. Go read the FAQ.  Carefully, this time:

    http://forums.thesecretworld.com/showthread.php?t=62789

    They are among the current tiers. But compared to what lifers would get before the transition I'm not sure that is right. But, buying a lifetime is a risk after all.

    It's not even close kuppa, you know this. 

     

    Lifers are getting over like a fat rat now.

     

    edit - are you kidding me. I should almost report you for trolling :p ;)

    before - 

    • Full Content of the Master Pack
    • Life time subscription (For perspective the price of this pack is worth 13.3 months of game time)
    • Exclusive Snake Skin Jacket (In-Game Item) 
    • ALL CONTENT IS FREE
    after - 
    • Every month Grandmaster accounts will receive $10 worth of Bonus Points. These points are valid for 6 months and can be used towards any Item Store purchase. IT CAN ALSO BE USED TOWARDS THE NEW DLC CONTENT WHICH IS NOT FREE.
    • Every month Grandmaster accounts will receive the Item-of-the-month: a special gift to all Membership accounts to the game.
    • As a Grandmaster you receive a permanent item: The Time Accelerator. This item is available to all your characters and increases your experience gain by 100% for one hour and has a 16 hour cool-down!

    This has been beaten to dead already, but look at what you forgot.

    image


    image

  • DarkVagabondDarkVagabond Posts: 271Member Uncommon

    You all touched a FUNCOM product and you actually thought a LIFETIME sub was safe.

    Neither of these things have been good ideas in five years.

    Maybe you won't do it again.

  • TheSedatedTheSedated WormsPosts: 82Member
    Originally posted by DarkVagabond

    You all touched a FUNCOM product and you actually thought a LIFETIME sub was safe.

    Neither of these things have been good ideas in five years.

    Maybe you won't do it again.

    And maybe you won't touch a thread about a product of a company again on which you seem to hold a grudge or something. Most of the lifetime subscribers are quite happy with the things they get after B2P conversion and most of them are quite happy with the game. Even if it is a funcom product. Or maybe because it is one. Have you ever touched a funcom product? I guess the answer will be AoC and you're one of the (at least it feels like) 15 millions on the internet who got screwed by funcom 5 years ago and are still mad...

     

    Seriously, if Funcom still gets so much hate for AoC, I really wonder how EA is able to sell a single copy of a game today...

  • JakdstripperJakdstripper logan lake, BCPosts: 2,127Member Uncommon
    personally i would find out where Funcom headquarters are (Drammensveien 167 0277 Oslo, Norway), buy a plane ticket (http://www.lowestfare.com/), wait for the first guy to walk out of the front door and, while pointing at a picture of Anders Breivik, ask him if he has seen Ole Shereiner....
  • BetakodoBetakodo Poor land, FLPosts: 338Member
    Gather as much people as you can and start a riot in town. Have people cram into one area, spam chat, open all their inventory/character pages, spam their twitter, youtube and facebook accounts.
  • pmcubedpmcubed Portland, ORPosts: 289Member

    Literally every MMO that offered some kind of lifetime sub has went F2P.

    Lifetime subscriptions are a gimmick to get a larger one time revenue increase.  MMO's evolve and change (especially if people don't like the game) so quickly, it is a VERY bad investment to ever consider a lifetime subscription to any MMO - no matter what kind of "fluff" you receive for doing so.

    Sorry man, I just think you need to think before you buy kinda deal.

    EDIT:  In fact, any lawyer you talk to will say the same.

  • DeeweDeewe Long Beach, CAPosts: 1,965Member

    Seems to me FUNCOM gesture is quite fair.

     

    You get something every month and even rebates on the cash shop.

    Unless you aren't planning to play the game long term you would loose money requesting a refund.

  • Johnie-MarzJohnie-Marz La Puente, CAPosts: 865Member

    Because their numbers aren't what they hoped, they had a choice:

    Close the game OR change the subscription model.

    How is closing the game better for those with lifetime subscriptions???

     

    Under B2P you can play the game plus get 10 dollars a month worth of points to buy things.

    Under closing the game, you get nothing.

  • Ambros123Ambros123 Neverneverland, TNPosts: 877Member
    Anyone stupid enough to buy a lifetime sub deserves what they got, this goes for any lifetime sub regardless of the game.  Lifetime subs are a gamble, just like stocks.  If the stocks you invested in plummet then you got no one to blame but yourself. 
  • TalulaRoseTalulaRose Long Island, NYPosts: 481Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Johnie-Marz

    Because their numbers aren't what they hoped, they had a choice:

    Close the game OR change the subscription model.

    How is closing the game better for those with lifetime subscriptions???

     

    Under B2P you can play the game plus get 10 dollars a month worth of points to buy things.

    Under closing the game, you get nothing.

    Not Really true.

     

    The previously free updates are now going to cost between $5 - $10

    You get $10 worth of points that can only be used in the TSW cash shop and ecpire in 6 months.

    Some months the Issue will cost $10 so you end up with no free points. You get nothing.

    Other months you will be left with up to $5 worth of points depending no how much the Issue costs.

    As a non-sub customer you can buy more points and they don't expire.

    Non GM pack owners are better off. Get more for their dollar, no expiry.

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