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Taking legal action against The Secret World

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Comments

  • Four0SixFour0Six Missoula, MTPosts: 1,181Member Uncommon

    1. Can the mods merge the threads concerning this? Please.

     

  • MakaziMakazi NorwayPosts: 5Member
    Haven't read all the replies to this, but have you tried contacting Funcom for a refund? If not, it might be a good idea to do just that before hiring a lawyer and get drowned in legal fees.
  • KarteliKarteli Providence, PAPosts: 2,646Member

    Video games just have a depricating value, over time.  The only legal recourse you might have is if you could find a discrepency between making payments, what is expected from those payments, and the End User Liscense Agreement (EULA), to which you undoubtedly clicked "I agree".

     

    EULA doesn't always hold up, and there are some cases where the EULA was determined by a court to be unreasonable.  The part about the agreeing user being only to take issue with the developer / publisher through a pre-determined dispute moderator is possibly the most challenged.

     

    Honesly I think many people felt ripped off when they bought the Star Wars: The Old Republic Collectors Edition, which was initially very expensive ($150) and rare.  EA then mass produced the same Collectors Edition and liquidated them, going as low as $20 at Best Buy and KMart.  Big time rip off for those that bought early.

     

    EA is kosher to bring up with this since it is the publisher for The Secret World, and potentially the buyer of Funcom.  Don't like how things go down?  Don't buy EA MMO's.  Even their FIFA is riddled with bugs, but even then, they still do single player / light multiplayer games better.  Their next SimCity might be a hit, and I really hope it won't be another EA trainwreck.  As for their MMO's, they can keep them from now on, as far as I'm concerned, even if they are "only" the publisher, at first, heh.

    Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
    Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.

  • ComanComan Hattem, AKPosts: 2,034Member Uncommon

    What really is annoying about this all is not that poeple complain they are not getting what they payed for (because they still get that!), but that someone else get something they just want for themselves, because they simply feel entiteld to it. Anyhow let this be fought out in a court and see where it ends. 

    The entertainment of the gaming industry almost comes more from all the drama surrounding it the last few years then the games. 

  • Po_ggPo_gg Twigwarren, WestfarthingPosts: 2,721Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by darkhalf357x
    Originally posted by FromHell

    The last bastion beside EvE, TSW finally catered to the cheapskates. Thanks for nothing. Now the 30$ lolkids will try to do investigation quests and fill up the chat with ""lollzthisgamesucks""whatis goin on lolzzz"

    Which begs the question why would you ever buy a lifetime sub for something you cant guarentee for the next month?  You cant blame someone for a RISK you openly took.

    Thats like investing money in a stock that tanks and then asking for your money back because you didnt know it was going to happen.

    Is it sad? yes.  Is it unfortunate? Perhaps.  Is it illegal?  No.

    Caveat Emptor.

    +1.

    I admit I don't get the thread... Grandmasters didn't lost anything with this, it still is a great deal (on an another thread I said that maybe I'll buy one GM pack for myself in January)

    And if the problem is that the game changed under us, well, as darkhalf357x wrote it's maybe sad and unfortunate, but not something to base a legal case on. I would've liked better as well, if Funcom chose to stay on the subscription route. On the other hand, maybe this b2p change will be a good thing on the long run.

    Ps. the 30$ lolkids, on the beta and the trial weekends we already saw that they won't be a problem. They will leave :) Agreed, in the first 1-2 months maybe we will see a lot of "what's the code at the church"-like comments on general... Disturbing? A bit. But I don't think it's enough for a legal case either.

  • WaldoeWaldoe allentown, PAPosts: 624Member
    Sounds like the OP made a bad investment and now they are butthurt. That's on you.
  • GR3NDELGR3NDEL Tulsa, OKPosts: 108Member Uncommon

    If the OP wants to take legal action against Funcom, then I say 'Good luck!'

    But all this 'Hey, look at me!  Look at me!  I'm suing Funcom!  I'M SUING FUNCOM!  Applaud me!' stuff is pointless.

    image

  • RocketeerRocketeer NachrodtPosts: 1,304Member

    Sometimes things in the digital world are difficult to grasp, but this isn't anything you can sue Funcom over.

    Funcom sold you X, for Y and pledged to provide Z. Aslong as they provide Z you have no legal grounds to complain, atleast here in europe. EULAs do not even come into it. I mean obviously a company has the right to offer someone else a different contract than what you got. I can't even wrap my mind around the idea that you as a third person should have a right to intervene between a company and a new customer just because you bought from them once ...

    If you think that you are somehow entitled to retroactive pricecuts ... how far back would that work? Can i buy a summerdress for my wife in june, and then demand the store pay me out the difference in the wintersale months later? If my mobile carrier releases a new package deal thats cheaper than what i got, can i demand he pay me out the difference even though im in the 24 month period?

    I mean not even communist countries work like that ...

     

     

  • Skooma2Skooma2 Glenview, ILPosts: 694Member Uncommon
    Hi.  I'm an actual honest-to-God lawyer.  To the original poster: You have no case.  The EULA spells out that they can change what they want when they want.   It seems to be your argument that your payment at the beginning of the game's existence entitles you to everything and later people should have to pay the same amount.  In regards to that opinion, I can either go to a theater and pay full price for a brand-new movie, or I can wait until it is available on On Demand for $2.99.  Those who went to the theater have no cause to complain that people watching the movie On Demand paid less.

    Hedonismbot: Your latest performance was as delectable as dipping my bottom over and over into a bath of the silkiest oils and creams.

  • RocketeerRocketeer NachrodtPosts: 1,304Member
    Originally posted by Skooma2
    Those who went to the theater have no cause to complain that people watching the movie On Demand paid less.

    Well I'm no lawyer, but I don't think people would have a case even if the same theater they went to decides to lower the price on the movie the very next day because they couldn't get all tickets sold at the old price. I mean if companies weren't allowed to adjust their prices ... I just can't wrap my mind around that notion. But I think it would probably be bad for the economy or something.

  • BigHatLoganBigHatLogan Bellingham, WAPosts: 688Member

    I see these kind of "I'm gonna sue this MMORPG if they don't refund my 10 dollars" kind of posts for every MMORPG ever released.  How many have been successfully sued?  In the only specific case I can recall, the courts upheld Blizzard's EULA.  (that was pre WoW if I remember correctly)    Regardless of the above, how many lawyers do you think would want to get on board with this kind of case?  Unless you are willing to pay thousands of dollars to finance the suit they would have to take the case with the understanding that they would get 1/3 or more of total money recovered.  In order to actually litigate the case, such a lawyer needs to put up their own financial warchest in order to pay litigation costs and salaries of those involved.  This means that big cases like this are a huge risk.  Do you really think they are going to jump all over this kind of thing? 

     

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    I will play no more MMORPGs until somethign good comes out!

  • SlechtvalkSlechtvalk ElsdorfPosts: 33Member
    Originally posted by I_Return
    Originally posted by ChromeBallz

    For the life of me i cannot find them. For some reason all my searches lead to US cases which are irrelevant here.

    I only know of 2 cases for certain: One in the UK which ended 'undecided' (iirc the company settled with the claimant) and one in Germany where the claimant (customer) won the case.

    That said - EU law and German law is there. Cases or not, judges can't exactly ignore it and make up their own laws.

    Until a decisioned case or settledment is seen, you don't have much ice to stand on atm. :)

    http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20120703/11345519566/eu-court-says-yes-you-can-resell-your-software-even-if-software-company-says-you-cant.shtml

    http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012/07/03/crikey-eu-rules-you-can-resell-downloaded-games/

     

    Here is your case. And here the law itself.

    http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/bgb/BJNR001950896.html#BJNR001950896BJNG023401377

    So if its not allowed by EULA to prohibit the sale of the software, you can now imagine that most EULA in this point are not valid.

    http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/bgb/__308.html

    "4. die Vereinbarung eines Rechts des Verwenders, die versprochene Leistung zu ändern oder von ihr abzuweichen, wenn nicht die Vereinbarung der Änderung oder Abweichung unter Berücksichtigung der Interessen des Verwenders für den anderen Vertragsteil zumutbar ist;"

     

    is interesting for the TO. It means, EULA rules about changing the service are not valid, if they are not reasonable for the customer.

     

    So there is no real white and black, what is reasonable changing the lifetime sub into the new system. i absolutely agree that the TO is a little bit too squeamish. but i am not a judge.

     

     

  • IstrebiteIIstrebiteI SpbPosts: 266Member

    This is not how you take legal action.

    To take legal action you need spare time, money and knowledge.

    * Need money? Earn it or create a campaign to crowdsource it.

    * Don't have spare time? Well, then don't bother.

    * Don't have knowledge? Learn, study, ask for help/guidance or hire a professional.

    Posting on forums about how some company is shit and how THIS IS NOT WHAT YOU PAID FOR isnt going to take you closer to sueing them. What will take you closer is actually talking to lawyers, friends or relatives or paying for consultations, actually reading stuff, asking correctly formulated questions (at least something like "guys I'm going to sue Fancom over this what can you advise me"). Then making your case and going to court.

    Good luck if you actually do try to sue Funcom over this. I agree "no refunds" policy is ridiculous. If you paid for sub and there is no sub anymore, then you deserve to get your money back because the service you paid for is no longer provided. Whatever shit they word in their EULA, there are laws against that. There should be. Even in corrupted burocratic unfair Russia we have laws against such brainfuck. If you confused your customer deliberatly, like, selling him a sub, advertising it as a sub, but instead in small letters selling him thin air or some bullshit, then even if you signed a contract that said you're paying them for some "thin air" or basically nothing, if they advertised a sub, and you can prove it, then you win and can void the contract (and thus get a refund). Basically, intentionally misleading or confusing from one side is considered a valid legal reason to void the contract.

    However, if you bought a "lifetime" sub, then I guess you cannot really ask for refund because you clearly paid for something different than a 'lifetime" sub. Because its common sense that no game lives forever, no service lives forever, and thus when you buy a "lifetime service" you sign in for multiple limits of liability and so on and so forth. And there is no real way to refund lifetime sub since you cannot say which part of it you consumed yet (unlike sub, where if you paid for 10 months and in 3 months they switched to B2P, you can say you consumed 3 months but demand 7 months refunded).

  • fallenlordsfallenlords NottinghamPosts: 680Member

    Seems simple to me, Funcom offer a refund for any customer that is dissatisfied with the new arrangement. This all boils down to customer satisfaction, legalities aside.  The fact the customer is 'stitched up' with legal bs so that they  sign away their rights is sort of immaterial.   Call for Funcom to do the right thing.  Refund any customer that is unhappy with the new arrangement. Surely even the people that are happy with the new arrangement should be able to support that course of action.

  • platonicxplatonicx CBPosts: 21Member

    So ... lets sum up.

    Before the shift a subsciption gave you:

    1. Access to full game and updates

    2. ..... thats it

    After the shift you get:

    1. Access to full game and updates

    2. Spare points to spare on vanity items

    3. Free xp potions that gives you a bonus compared to the xp gain you had before

    4. Time Accelerator (Clickable item which increases experience gain for defeating monsters by 100% for 1 hour, 16 hour cool-down) Once again for one hour you can get double of exp you were getting before the bussiness model shift

     

    To me you gained a lot of stuff and lost nothing. However the reason you started this thread and the reason people like you find changes such as this somehow threatening is you are a bunch of internet rednecks.

     

    You simply cant bear the fact OTHER PEOPLE now have free access to something you paid for. For some reason this is such a big factor to you you feel the need to go on the internets and bitch about it.

    I advice people like you to either stop for a minute and thinkabout their character traits or get prefisional help.

    Evaluating your own life based on what other people have is simply not healthy.

  • UngoHumungoUngoHumungo Middletown, OHPosts: 518Member
    if you haven't asked for a refund for the game after the change, which I bet if asked correctly they would do.  Since the product has changed you can request a refund based on that.....

    There are times when one must ask themselves is it my passion that truly frightens you? Or your own?

  • OrtwigOrtwig Cambridge, MAPosts: 1,159Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by platonicx

    So ... lets sum up.

    Before the shift a subsciption gave you:

    1. Access to full game and updates

    2. ..... thats it

    After the shift you get:

    1. Access to full game and updates

    2. Spare points to spare on vanity items

    3. Free xp potions that gives you a bonus compared to the xp gain you had before

    4. Time Accelerator (Clickable item which increases experience gain for defeating monsters by 100% for 1 hour, 16 hour cool-down) Once again for one hour you can get double of exp you were getting before the bussiness model shift

    Don't forget item of the month.  Both subs and lifetimers are better off after the change.  They are getting more for their money, not less.  

  • RyphtRypht Henderson, NVPosts: 37Member
    Originally posted by fallenlords

    Seems simple to me, Funcom offer a refund for any customer that is dissatisfied with the new arrangement. This all boils down to customer satisfaction, legalities aside.  The fact the customer is 'stitched up' with legal bs so that they  sign away their rights is sort of immaterial.   Call for Funcom to do the right thing.  Refund any customer that is unhappy with the new arrangement. Surely even the people that are happy with the new arrangement should be able to support that course of action.

    Funcom is doing the right thing, for the long term survival of the game.  If this allows them to keep the game going, keep adding new content, and attract new players to the game, it benefits everyone interested in the game, including subscribers and lifetimers.

  • OrtwigOrtwig Cambridge, MAPosts: 1,159Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by platonicx

    You simply cant bear the fact OTHER PEOPLE now have free access to something you paid for. For some reason this is such a big factor to you you feel the need to go on the internets and bitch about it.

    I advice people like you to either stop for a minute and thinkabout their character traits or get prefisional help.

    Evaluating your own life based on what other people have is simply not healthy.

    I'm not usually one to quote the Bible, but folks might want to take a look at this one, as I think it's pretty applicable:  

    http://gracethrufaith.com/selah/parables/the-parable-of-the-workers-in-the-field/

  • MisterTeaBHMisterTeaBH SouthendPosts: 22Member

    Hahaha lifetime subscription for a funcom mmo, glorious

     

  • WhitebeardsWhitebeards TokyoPosts: 778Member

    If these things really worked i would be roling in money form all the lawsuits i filed against every single MMO company out there for making changed to payment models.

    Go ahead do it, i have been reading these posts for years now. 

  • DerrosDerros Posts: 1,077Member Uncommon

    Here's the thing, what did you get for the grandmaster pack?  Unlimited access to the game and some bonus items.  You still have all that, what you paid for hasnt changed, other people are now, just getting some of what you paid for, for free (or heavily discounted if you count the box price).  Its like buying a new game at a store, 7 months later, you find out the store is doing a massive sale or heavily discounting the game for like $10, you dont get to go back and ask for the difference.

     

    Although i'm sure im going to get some person coming here saying they did just that, if you, your results are not typical.

  • bishbosh2bishbosh2 SydneyPosts: 66Member
    this is ridiculous. this is like sueing a computer parts supplier because they give pentium 4's away for free but you paid $300 for it 10 years ago. you cant sue a company for changing the price of their product???
  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member


    Originally posted by platonicx
    I advice people like you to either stop for a minute and thinkabout their character traits or get prefisional help.

    You left out the 'h'. It's "prefishional" help. Prefishional help is when you don't eat enough fish, and lack the omega 3 fatty acids and b vitamins and it makes you grumpy. I would have thought the word would be "fishional", but the pre is because the help is arriving prior to the arrival of the fish.

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • ReklawReklaw Am.Posts: 6,478Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by banzai014
    Originally posted by Ortwig

    Sigh.  Please go read the FAQ (carefully!) on how things are changing for subs and lifetimers.  I think you will see that both are making out very well with the transition, even better than where things were yesterday.  It's actually a better deal than the old GM pack.

    http://forums.thesecretworld.com/showthread.php?t=62789

    It doesn't matter. It might be a deal, but it's not the deal I signed up for: and 1200 points is still $10, less than $15 a month.

    The right thing to do is refund our remaining time and if we want to sub for your "better deal" we will.

    So I wonder what the answer was when you contacted Funcom about your issue??

     

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