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How can lifetimers get back at Funcom?

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  • Xeno326Xeno326 , KSPosts: 77Member
    Originally posted by Betaguy
    Originally posted by banzai014

    So Funcom is laughing all the way to the bank with lifetimers' money. We haven't even seen a return on our investment (12+ months sub time) and TSW has already gone F2P. Instead, we are being given a sop for wanting to support Funcom and trusting their "we won't go F2P anytime, cash shop is cosmetics-only" promise - for a $15 month's sub, players now get $10 in Funcom fake monies that expire after 6 months and 20% discount on all per-character (not even account!) clothing/pets (non-DLC items) bought from the cash shop.  It would be cheaper to buy the $5-10 monthly DLC from the store than sub in this game. 

    Of course we can't vote with our wallets, Funcom already has our money. Rather than listening to our complaints, Funcom would be more apt to ban us for being disruptive in chat / forums since they've already milked us cash-wise and we're now just a drain on server resources.

    So how can lifetimers protest? We have to do it through word of mouth. It's our duty to warn players from this game. We must warn our friends, our family, warn people in the forums we frequent. Let our cautionary tale make it known that only fools part money with Funcom.

    I tried tell tell people after I first beta tested it, game is not sub base worthy in my opinion.  I knew it wouldn't be long before going this route.

    Should of been smart like the rest of us who avoided this title. From the beta testing that was made available to players, I could already tell there wasn't enough content or enough things in this game to keep players hooked for the long haul. Sure it had a great story plot and a new twist on things. The modern combat was pretty sweet but its mechanics seemed glitchy.

     

    It definitely was not worth a lifetime sub, if the people who bought the lifetime were shortsighted to the point to not see past this then that's their fault and of course you get what you pay for. Knowing Funcom's history and how they tried to scam people with their prior AoC promo's helped sway me from buying this product.

     

    Most of the MMO's these days go F2P after a year, that's the pattern, there's no point to pay for a sub, it's just a money grab; where most of these game can survive easily enough with a cosmetic cash-shop.

     

    In addition to this cash-shop I also wish the items you bought were account bound to be used on all characters, all companies seem to make this mistake and I think its done intentional to get people to spend more money. Well unfortunate for the companies I have that much self control to not pay for something twice... If the rest of the population had the same self control we could sway the companies to change this small problem and in the end they could make the money they deserve. But their greediness makes it a big turn off for me.

     

    I'm glad I waited for GW2 and bought it. I've invested 500 hours in it so far and still enjoy it as its a game I can stop and pick up at any time, good job A.net on a good business model! Oh and their cash-shop items are account bound ;) Also an A+ move!

  • DerrosDerros Posts: 1,077Member Uncommon

    Depending on the cost, Lifers will either get all new content free, or heavily discounted based on their $10 in currency they get a month.  Not a bad deal.

     

    Other than that, Caveat Emptor

  • OrtwigOrtwig Cambridge, MAPosts: 1,159Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Derros
    Depending on the cost, Lifers will either get all new content free, or heavily discounted based on their $10 in currency they get a month.  Not a bad deal.

    It's an excellent deal.  People are just being a bit thick.

  • OmaliOmali MMO Business Correspondent Orchard Park, NYPosts: 1,114Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by rdrakken

    Funcom has been making MMORPGs since 1991, they have always, I SAID ALWAYS been a company that makes games with great potential. potential. that means they are NEVER as good as they could have been with a company that not only knows HOW to make great games, but a company that actually LISTENS to the community BEFORE its too late.

    Funcom was established in 1993 and didn't release an MMO until 2001.

    Check out my monthly column on MMORPG.com.

    image

  • NitthNitth AustraliaPosts: 3,684Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by augustgrace
    Our lifetime payment has already covered nearly 7 months of subs, got us one of the pre-order packs plus lifetime exclusives, and now gets us $10 store money each month, a monthly gift and the exp item.  We'll never have to pay out of pocket for added content, and our allotment will allow us to buy pretty much everything in the store over time.

    We shouldn't have to buy dlc with tokens lol its already been payed for.

    image
    TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development

  • azzamasinazzamasin Butler, OHPosts: 3,058Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by banzai014

    So Funcom is laughing all the way to the bank with lifetimers' money. We haven't even seen a return on our investment (12+ months sub time) and TSW has already gone F2P. Instead, we are being given a sop for wanting to support Funcom and trusting their "we won't go F2P anytime, cash shop is cosmetics-only" promise - for a $15 month's sub, players now get $10 in Funcom fake monies that expire after 6 months and 20% discount on all per-character (not even account!) clothing/pets (non-DLC items) bought from the cash shop.  It would be cheaper to buy the $5-10 monthly DLC from the store than sub in this game. 

    Of course we can't vote with our wallets, Funcom already has our money. Rather than listening to our complaints, Funcom would be more apt to ban us for being disruptive in chat / forums since they've already milked us cash-wise and we're now just a drain on server resources.

    So how can lifetimers protest? We have to do it through word of mouth. It's our duty to warn players from this game. We must warn our friends, our family, warn people in the forums we frequent. Let our cautionary tale make it known that only fools part money with Funcom.

    ---------------------------

    UPDATE:  I have contacted Massively and MMORPG.com awaiting reply suggesting they write an article investigating the legal implications of TSW's B2P change or otherwise recommend me a lawyer specializing in this area that I could talk to. I hope this way we the community can get something started moving forward and clarify exactly  what legal recourse existing subscribers have. I only ask that players get the option of having their extant subscription time refunded, since the subscription service has so wholly changed from what they originally intended to pay for (i.e. it has lost a lot of its value, which is paying for access to the game).

    Your fault for buying a lifetime sub.  If you thought the game was good enough at that time then you only have yourself to blame.

     

     

    Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

    Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!

    Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!

    image

  • SimsuSimsu Corvallis, ORPosts: 360Member Uncommon

    Has anyone else noticed how games that offer lifetime subs are also the ones who go F2P/Fremium sooner rather than later? Are there any lifetime sub games that haven't gone F2P/Fremium?

    I'm amazed people are still paying for lifetime subs.

  • rojoArcueidrojoArcueid hell, NJPosts: 6,778Member Uncommon

    theres no need to investigate legal this or lawyer that whatever..... How many times most most people in this forums said the game is not worth a sub and that lifetime in mmos is just a huge scam. You wanted a lifetime on a game taht is not even worth 15 a month? well, theres no sub anymore, dont complain about your lifetime being changed for microtransactions and some other things.

    You get what you pay for. I bought TSW at launch just to play the free month and then wait for F2P (i knew it was going either F2P or B2P anytime soon). I never buy lifetime, too much money for one game. I payed for a box, now i get a full game for free forever. Cant complain, Very happy with Funcom finally coming to their senses.

    Honest advice to all lifetimers who dislike this change, learn from this experience and never buy lifetime subscription again.

    image
  • minttunatorminttunator ViimsiPosts: 131Member
    Originally posted by Simsu

    Has anyone else noticed how games that offer lifetime subs are also the ones who go P2P sooner rather than later? Are there any lifetime sub games that haven't gone P2P?

    I'm amazed people are still paying for lifetime subs.

    You mean B2P. 

  • SimsuSimsu Corvallis, ORPosts: 360Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by minttunator
    Originally posted by Simsu

    Has anyone else noticed how games that offer lifetime subs are also the ones who go P2P sooner rather than later? Are there any lifetime sub games that haven't gone P2P?

    I'm amazed people are still paying for lifetime subs.

    You mean B2P. 

    Eh, I was thinking F2P when I was typing, but thx.

    In any case, it's a terrible idea to pay everything up front for an MMO and hope everything goes your way. The more games that switch payment models (especially shortly after launch) the more I think the developers are doing it intentionally to get the most money possible right at launch then switching to the more porifitable cash shop when that launch/sub money drops off.

  • ChromeBallzChromeBallz LeidenPosts: 287Member Uncommon

    To be brutally honest...

    That's why you never, EVER buy into lifetime stuff.

    For the record, every single game that offered a lifetime sub at some point went free to play (or in this case buy to play) within 12-18 months of release, at least to my knowledge. I can't name any MMO for which this was not the case.

    Fact is, lifetime subs are offered for either or both of 2 reasons:
    - The company wants to bait a demographich which usually boasts a very low retention rate (how long you play an mmo, 3 months is the average) to pay more so they actually get more in the long run.
    - The company is not sure its MMO will survive it's current businessmodel (or at all) for more than 12 months.

    This is why companies like Blizzard and CCP do not offer lifetime subs: They have no reason to do so. Blizzard is 100% sure that WoW will survive for a very, very long time despite it's low retention rate, CCP is incredibly confident due to EVE's very high retention rate and a still growing subscriber base.

    Playing: EVE, TERA, BDO
    Played (more than 1 month): WoW, GW2, L2, WAR, AoC, DnL, GW, LotRO, EQ2, TOR, CoH, STO, TSW
    Tried (trial, up to 1 month): EQ, UO, AO, EnB, TCoS, Fury, Ryzom, EU, DDO, TR, RF, CO, Aion, VG, DN, Vindictus

  • simmihisimmihi -Posts: 613Member Uncommon
    Well, if i'd be interested to buy lifetime for a game, i'd have the patience to play the first free month which comes with the box and then see if i still find the game that great. If then i decide to go lifetime, i'd do it because i really really love the game, and because i want to support the company which created such a great product.

     

    The quality of the game did not decrease, the updates were constant and mostly cool, most bugs were fixed. What happened? I for one would not feel "cheated" for investing in a thing i love. The B2P "shift" will bring me a better deal than i had until then, and probably lots of new players in the game. Honestly i'd feel happy. The game's not doing well at the moment. What would have been a better choice, to forget updates, fire 90% of the staff, let it rot, like we've seen in (many) other cases? Is it better to be "lifetime subbed" to some dead game?

  • evilastroevilastro EdinburghPosts: 4,270Member
    Originally posted by UNH0LYEV1L
    I'm a life timer and I love the changes.  Can't wait.  Get some more people to this fantastic game!

    See this is a true lifetimer.

    I doubt the OP even has a lifetime sub.

  • korvasskorvass den haagPosts: 623Member
    Originally posted by Nitth

     


    Originally posted by augustgrace
    Our lifetime payment has already covered nearly 7 months of subs, got us one of the pre-order packs plus lifetime exclusives, and now gets us $10 store money each month, a monthly gift and the exp item.  We'll never have to pay out of pocket for added content, and our allotment will allow us to buy pretty much everything in the store over time.


     

    We shouldn't have to buy dlc with tokens lol its already been payed for.

    That's kinda what the FC points represent.. It's a replacement of value that you paid for.

    So now, you can buy that DLC, an a fancy pair of shoes, plus you get an exclusive free item, and XP boosts, and an overall price reduction in the store.

    Why is this so hard to understand? Do MMO players just like to play the drama card every time?

  • DanderXDanderX Miami, FLPosts: 15Member

    LOL at how Funcom tricked themselves by trying to be more generous that they should've. They should've just said: "You get all DLCs for free". And not giving any points, and I bet all lifers now would've been HAPPIER than ever.

    Human brains are so amusing.

  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIPosts: 8,277Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Kuppa
    Originally posted by Ortwig

    Plain silliness -- lifers are making out best of all. Go read the FAQ.  Carefully, this time:

    http://forums.thesecretworld.com/showthread.php?t=62789

    They are among the current tiers. But compared to what lifers would get before the transition I'm not sure that is right. But, buying a lifetime is a risk after all.

    It's not even close kuppa, you know this. 

     

    Lifers are getting over like a fat rat now.

     

    edit - are you kidding me. I should almost report you for trolling :p ;)

    before - 

    • Full Content of the Master Pack
    • Life time subscription (For perspective the price of this pack is worth 13.3 months of game time)
    • Exclusive Snake Skin Jacket (In-Game Item) 
    after - 
    • Every month Grandmaster accounts will receive $10 worth of Bonus Points. These points are valid for 6 months and can be used towards any Item Store purchase.
    • Every month Grandmaster accounts will receive the Item-of-the-month: a special gift to all Membership accounts to the game.
    • As a Grandmaster you receive a permanent item: The Time Accelerator. This item is available to all your characters and increases your experience gain by 100% for one hour and has a 16 hour cool-down!
  • Agent_JosephAgent_Joseph SarajevoPosts: 1,070Member Uncommon

    i am lifer,not regreat for that.

    I am glad to suport my favorite game

    only EVE is real MMO...but I am impressive with TSW

  • st3v3b0st3v3b0 Gainesville, FLPosts: 147Member Uncommon
    You got dupped.  Face it.  Everyone with some knowledge of MMO's knew this game would not be a big hit and would go F2P in no time.
  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member

    So, some lifetime subscribers are angry that they can now buy more stuff in the cash shop, and will probably be able to get paid expansions in the future without paying any money? Is that pretty much it?

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIPosts: 8,277Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by st3v3b0
    You got dupped.  Face it.  Everyone with some knowledge of MMO's knew this game would not be a big hit and would go F2P in no time.

    it's still not f2p...

  • therain93therain93 Winthrop, MAPosts: 2,039Member

    I don't play TSW, but this is a bit like the City of Heroes Freedom model....and it seems like people don't fully get it, just like when CoH went to that hybrid pay model.

    People have already pointed out that benefits of the lifetime sub, most notably the monthly stipend and the discount you get to use in the store -- that alone is makes it a great deal. 

    BUT, the other benefit of B2P is that, even with no sub, Funcom has eliminated what might be a huge barrier to entry, especially at gifting times like right now.  How does that beneft lifetime subbers?  Well, the reality is that a lifetime subber is going to likely be there forever and regular subbers will eventually leave, meaning the lifetimers would have a dwindling group of people to play with.  Eliminating the sub eliminates a reason why people will stop playing the game.  Assuming the quality of the game is decent, then lifetimers will likely have a larger pool of people to play with and if they have a larger pool of people to play with, then they'll likely stick around....and buy more cash shop items....  Everyone basically benefits, including those that don't want to make an investment in a subscription.

  • L0C0ManL0C0Man Puerto OrdazPosts: 1,065Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Derros

    Depending on the cost, Lifers will either get all new content free, or heavily discounted based on their $10 in currency they get a month.  Not a bad deal.

     

    Other than that, Caveat Emptor

    It would technically be free, Joel already said that the points will be more than enough to buy all the content along the way... of course, unless they spend it in other cash shop stuff right before a DLC hits, but in that case they wouldn't be spending any more money than they would have if they had gotten the DLC with their included points and then buy the other stuff.

    What can men do against such reckless hate?

  • SiveriaSiveria Saint John, New BrunswickPosts: 1,200Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by banzai014

    So Funcom is laughing all the way to the bank with lifetimers' money. We haven't even seen a return on our investment (12+ months sub time) and TSW has already gone F2P. Instead, we are being given a sop for wanting to support Funcom and trusting their "we won't go F2P anytime, cash shop is cosmetics-only" promise - for a $15 month's sub, players now get $10 in Funcom fake monies that expire after 6 months and 20% discount on all per-character (not even account!) clothing/pets (non-DLC items) bought from the cash shop.  It would be cheaper to buy the $5-10 monthly DLC from the store than sub in this game. 

    Of course we can't vote with our wallets, Funcom already has our money. Rather than listening to our complaints, Funcom would be more apt to ban us for being disruptive in chat / forums since they've already milked us cash-wise and we're now just a drain on server resources.

    So how can lifetimers protest? We have to do it through word of mouth. It's our duty to warn players from this game. We must warn our friends, our family, warn people in the forums we frequent. Let our cautionary tale make it known that only fools part money with Funcom.

    ---------------------------

    UPDATE:  I have contacted Massively and MMORPG.com awaiting reply suggesting they write an article investigating the legal implications of TSW's B2P change or otherwise recommend me a lawyer specializing in this area that I could talk to. I hope this way we the community can get something started moving forward and clarify exactly  what legal recourse existing subscribers have. I only ask that players get the option of having their extant subscription time refunded, since the subscription service has so wholly changed from what they originally intended to pay for (i.e. it has lost a lot of its value, which is paying for access to the game).

    All I can say is that you should have known not to bother with a lifetime sub when almost all other mmo's these days are dead after 3-6 months to the point they have to go f2p to survive. Especally in TSW when you can do all content in 4-7 days or so, then have nothing left. Buddy at release with 2-3 friends of his did every quest in game in 3.5 days. Did a few of the endgame dungeons on hardmode as well. I do agree you have a right to be mad, but in reality you should have known better if you just looked at other recently released mmo's. The pointless hollow themepark style of mmo is starting to die off. I really don't know how wow keeps its subs, since its one of the worse offenders for being pointless and hollow. Hell the raid gear that takes so much time to get, is bascally a paper weight in wow due to nothing to use it for. Yet Blizzard has somehow managed to brainwash people into keeping their sub open.

    Being a pessimist is a win-win pattern of thinking. If you're a pessimist (I'll admit that I am!) you're either:

    A. Proven right (if something bad happens)

    or

    B. Pleasantly surprised (if something good happens)

    Either way, you can't lose! Try it out sometime!

  • SanguinelustSanguinelust Plainfield, NJPosts: 801Member Uncommon

    This is what the internet was made for...complaining. Most companies treat lifers well after changing over to f2p, b2p, p2w or whatever the kiddies call it today. Get over it, it's life. If you let this bother you that much how much will it bother you later in life when you find your wife cheated on you, or your credit card company raises your interest rate? 

    Really, people need better things in life to get worked up over.

  • SiveriaSiveria Saint John, New BrunswickPosts: 1,200Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by therain93

    I don't play TSW, but this is a bit like the City of Heroes Freedom model....and it seems like people don't fully get it, just like when CoH went to that hybrid pay model.

    People have already pointed out that benefits of the lifetime sub, most notably the monthly stipend and the discount you get to use in the store -- that alone is makes it a great deal. 

    BUT, the other benefit of B2P is that, even with no sub, Funcom has eliminated what might be a huge barrier to entry, especially at gifting times like right now.  How does that beneft lifetime subbers?  Well, the reality is that a lifetime subber is going to likely be there forever and regular subbers will eventually leave, meaning the lifetimers would have a dwindling group of people to play with.  Eliminating the sub eliminates a reason why people will stop playing the game.  Assuming the quality of the game is decent, then lifetimers will likely have a larger pool of people to play with and if they have a larger pool of people to play with, then they'll likely stick around....and buy more cash shop items....  Everyone basically benefits, including those that don't want to make an investment in a subscription.

    ^ this guy gets it. Also don't forget that TSW doesn'thave the nasty restrictions like most p2p to f2p/b2p mmo's get, look at swtor, and lotro,, eq2 as well, so many restrictions that you really have to sub to make the game worthwhile to play. DDO is another example if you don't sub or shell out a ton of money you losse out on about 90% of the games content. I got my TSw 6 days after release for 20 bucks off its normal price at green man gaming due to a coupon event they had where they gave otu 20 buck off coupons/codes. Only played it for like 8 hours before I quit though game was so ungodly generic and boring. Also if your going to make a game with factions for fraks sake make sure you put in some land control-type pvp and not this arena garbage. What the hell is the point to factions in a mmo if you can't fight eacher in worthwhile area's (like faction wide bonuses for holding so much terrtory like daoc for example). I mean if you aren't going to have the factions fighting each other in a mmo, there really is no point to the factions. its bad enough all 3 factions are shoveled down the same content. But not having some worthwhile pvpve type land control stuff in an area just feels like a kick in the jimmies.

    Being a pessimist is a win-win pattern of thinking. If you're a pessimist (I'll admit that I am!) you're either:

    A. Proven right (if something bad happens)

    or

    B. Pleasantly surprised (if something good happens)

    Either way, you can't lose! Try it out sometime!

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