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Finally .. no more sub games for me

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  • fallsadoomfallsadoom Pittsburgh, PAPosts: 14Member
    Originally posted by CalmOceans
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by CalmOceans
    Good luck on spending more on F2P to enjoy the game.

    Don't worry. I will join the majority of MMO players in the US, and pay nothing. I will let teh whales to subsidize my gaming. It is not like i haven't play F2P before, jsut that i have to wait till my annual pass is over before killing the last sub.

    That's fine, I'll rephrase my wording then.

    "Good luck on being treated as a second-class citizen in every game."

    The only reason developers keep you non-paying players in F2P games is to entertain the paying demographic.

    We are not 2nd class citizens we are just  cheep citizens, but really being tied up in a Subed mmo and running a FTP one you may want to watch what you are doing there was  a time  i was spending more on the FTP for items needed to enjoy the game that i ever did paying a Sub

  • CalmOceansCalmOceans BergenPosts: 2,273Member
    Originally posted by Asm0deus

    Again these 2 game shave shitty cash shops, not all f2p games are like this. Some f2p are p2w and smart peeps just move on to another.

    Right, now it's the games I chose that is at fault, not the payment model itself which enabled it?

    These aren't the only F2P like this, in fact it's becoming more and more the norm. Access to content is locked behind a power curve, a power curve that is either not accessible without spending money, or is made so daunting to the player that they eventually give in and spend money on the cash shop.

    Where are your F2P games with only cosmetic items? I don't see many around anymore.

  • VorthanionVorthanion Laguna Vista, TXPosts: 2,121Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by CalmOceans
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by CalmOceans
    Good luck on spending more on F2P to enjoy the game.

    Don't worry. I will join the majority of MMO players in the US, and pay nothing. I will let teh whales to subsidize my gaming. It is not like i haven't play F2P before, jsut that i have to wait till my annual pass is over before killing the last sub.

    That's fine, I'll rephrase my wording then.

    "Good luck on being treated as a second-cass citizen in every game then."

    The only reason developers keep you non-paying players is to entertain the paying demographic.

    Of course. It is only fair that the pay customers goet some advantage, don't you think?

    Paying customers should have ALL the advantages and then some.  Freeloading should only get you so far and in my book, that isn't far at all.

    image
  • Asm0deusAsm0deus BaatorPosts: 1,116Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by CalmOceans
    Originally posted by Asm0deus

    Again these 2 game shave shitty cash shops, not all f2p games are like this. Some f2p are p2w and smart peeps just move on to another.

    Right, now it's the games I chose that is at fault, not the payment model itself which enabled it?

    These aren't the only F2P like this, in fact it's becoming more and more the norm. Access to content is locked behind a power curve, a power curve that is either not accessible without spending money, or is made so daunting to the player that they eventually give in and spend money on the cash shop.

    Where are your F2P games with only cosmetic items? I don't see many around anymore.

    Some companies will milk it for all it is worth where as other won't, just like anything else. I never said these two games are the only ones that didn't know how to do f2p but you know what you just need stop praying at the sub game alter, go try some other games and see for your self.

     

    Many of the decent games offer a way to acquire cash shop money in game if you can't spend 10 buck now and then on their  version of cash shop money.

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  • VengeSunsoarVengeSunsoar Posts: 5,316Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by CalmOceans
    Originally posted by Asm0deus

    Again these 2 game shave shitty cash shops, not all f2p games are like this. Some f2p are p2w and smart peeps just move on to another.

    Right, now it's the games I chose that is at fault, not the payment model itself which enabled it?

    These aren't the only F2P like this, in fact it's becoming more and more the norm. Access to content is locked behind a power curve, a power curve that is either not accessible without spending money, or is made so daunting to the player that they eventually give in and spend money on the cash shop.

    Where are your F2P games with only cosmetic items? I don't see many around anymore.

    well yes actually.  If there are multple versions a particular model the only wy the model is bad is if all the versions are bad.  If there is a version of the model that is good, then the model itself isn't bad, just it's implementation. 

    An you don't need most/any of those things in EQ to play, they make it nice, but it's not needed.

    FE is one example.  There is nothing in the cash shop I can't make/get on my own that is better, actually there is nothing there I even want.

    Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  • GinazGinaz Calgary, ABPosts: 1,731Member Uncommon
    TSW isn't going f2p.  It will be b2p with a cash shop, just like GW2.

    image

    Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?

    Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.

  • CalmOceansCalmOceans BergenPosts: 2,273Member
    Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

    An you don't need most/any of those things in EQ to play, they make it nice, but it's not needed.

    What, have you even played EQ?

     

    Want to tell me how to do any content past the first few levels when your Alternative abilities are locked down to 250 max? My characters have over 7000 alternative abilities to even play the content.

    Want to tell me how you are going to buy anything when your platinum limit is 100pp when items cost upwards of 100,000pp? You need money to even buy the containers for half the gear in the game.

    Want to tell me how to raid in the game when all raid loot is locked behind a paywall.

    Want to tell me how you are going to play a tank past lvl 70 when half your AC augs are locked behind a paywall?

  • VengeSunsoarVengeSunsoar Posts: 5,316Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by CalmOceans
    Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

    An you don't need most/any of those things in EQ to play, they make it nice, but it's not needed.

    What, have you even played EQ?

     

    Want to tell me how to do any content past the first few levels when your Alternative abilities are locked down to 250 max? My characters have over 7000 alternative abilities to even play the content.

    Want to tell me how you are going to buy anything when your platinum limit is 100pp when items cost upwards of 100,000pp? You need money to even buy the containers for half the gear in the game.

    Want to tell me how to raid in the game when all raid loot is locked behind a paywall.

    Want to tell me how you are going to play a tank past lvl 70 when half your AC augs are locked behind a paywall?

    You dont need to buy anything from the AH, everything is loot dropped.  YHou don't need the AA and the very late game, even then you don't need them, they are just an added bonus.

    You don't need to raid, I never did.

    Augmentations are nice but again you don't need them. 

    All those things just give added bonuses.

    edit - I didn't say it would be easy.  It wouldn't, it would take a lot longer.

    I personally wouldn't play EQ without a merc either.  But people did play that way for many years, so no it is not needed, just very nice.

    Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  • VorthanionVorthanion Laguna Vista, TXPosts: 2,121Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by CalmOceans
    Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

    An you don't need most/any of those things in EQ to play, they make it nice, but it's not needed.

    What, have you even played EQ?

     

    Want to tell me how to do any content past the first few levels when your Alternative abilities are locked down to 250 max? My characters have over 7000 alternative abilities to even play the content.

    Want to tell me how you are going to buy anything when your platinum limit is 100pp when items cost upwards of 100,000pp? You need money to even buy the containers for half the gear in the game.

    Want to tell me how to raid in the game when all raid loot is locked behind a paywall.

    Want to tell me how you are going to play a tank past lvl 70 when half your AC augs are locked behind a paywall?

    I couldn't even imagine playing EQ these days without a mercenary.  Good luck affording one of them at higher levels when you are paying several hundred PPs per hour.

    image
  • VorthanionVorthanion Laguna Vista, TXPosts: 2,121Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
    Originally posted by CalmOceans
    Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

    An you don't need most/any of those things in EQ to play, they make it nice, but it's not needed.

    What, have you even played EQ?

     

    Want to tell me how to do any content past the first few levels when your Alternative abilities are locked down to 250 max? My characters have over 7000 alternative abilities to even play the content.

    Want to tell me how you are going to buy anything when your platinum limit is 100pp when items cost upwards of 100,000pp? You need money to even buy the containers for half the gear in the game.

    Want to tell me how to raid in the game when all raid loot is locked behind a paywall.

    Want to tell me how you are going to play a tank past lvl 70 when half your AC augs are locked behind a paywall?

    You dont need to buy anything from the AH, everything is loot dropped.  You don't need the AA untiil the very late game, even then you don't need them, they are just an added bonus.

    You don't need to raid, I never did.

    Augmentations are nice but again you don't need them. 

    All those things just give added bonuses.

    Dude, the game isn't fun without those "bonuses".  People twink in this game in order to make it fun.  Even the hardcore, diehard EQers play with mercenaries.  I guess your way might be fun for those of the masochistic persuasion.

    image
  • CalmOceansCalmOceans BergenPosts: 2,273Member
    Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

    You dont need to buy anything from the AH, everything is loot dropped.  YHou don't need the AA and the very late game, even then you don't need them, they are just an added bonus.

    You don't need to raid, I never did.

    Augmentations are nice but again you don't need them. 

    All those things just give added bonuses.

    You're plain ridiculous, and you obviously haven't played the game, not everything is loot dropped.

    You skipped the part about the Alternative abilities, like I said, how are you going to function with 250 AA when my characters need 7000 to even survive (not even raid)?

    Yes, you need to buy things from the bazaar (it's not called AH in EQ). The only other option is making everything yourself which is not possible because of your 100pp limit.

    Yes you need augmentations, are you telling me tanks don't need augmentations in EQ?

    Another things, how exactly are you going to make yoru gear in EQ past lvl 80 when your containers cost 10k when your F2P limit is 100? Are you going to play naked?

  • TjedTjed Baltimore, MDPosts: 162Member

    Man, now we have to separate our needs and our wants in a game?  I suppose I should also keep a monthly list of how much my "wants" cost in the game I'm playing in order to tally up my bill.  I can see a F2P game being fun to try out to see if you even like the game, but some of the stuff listed isn't optional for me.

    Raiding

    Acess to raiding gear

    I saw these two listed and yes I'm going to pay for them if I really like the game. 

    I say that games should strive to earn my $15 a month.  Make a game worth it and I would even pay more.  I do not, however, want to play a mediocre game for free and then get micro transactioned to death if I actually want to do anything fun in the game.  I would end up paying more than $15 a month for my "wants"  screw that.

  • FrodoFraginsFrodoFragins Manchester, NHPosts: 2,932Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by CalmOceans
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by CalmOceans
    Good luck on spending more on F2P to enjoy the game.

    Don't worry. I will join the majority of MMO players in the US, and pay nothing. I will let teh whales to subsidize my gaming. It is not like i haven't play F2P before, jsut that i have to wait till my annual pass is over before killing the last sub.

    That's fine, I'll rephrase my wording then.

    "Good luck on being treated as a second-class citizen in every game."

    The only reason developers keep you non-paying players in F2P games is to entertain the paying demographic.

    If you don't raid, you don't need raiding gear.

  • VengeSunsoarVengeSunsoar Posts: 5,316Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by CalmOceans
    Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

    You dont need to buy anything from the AH, everything is loot dropped.  YHou don't need the AA and the very late game, even then you don't need them, they are just an added bonus.

    You don't need to raid, I never did.

    Augmentations are nice but again you don't need them. 

    All those things just give added bonuses.

    You're plain ridiculous.

    You skipped the part about the Alternative abilities, like I said, how are you going to function with 250 AA when my characters need 7000 to even survive (not even raid)?

    Yes, you need to buy things from the bazaar (it's not called AH in EQ). The only other option is making everything yourself which is not possible because of your 100pp limit.

    Yes you need augmentations, are you telling me tanks don't need augmentations in EQ?

    Another things, how exactly are you going to make yoru gear in EQ past lvl 80 when your containers cost 10k when your F2P limit is 100? Are you going to play naked?

    Your right it is the bazaar not AH, AH is just common usage.

    I didn't skip alternative abilities.  AA stands for Alternative abilities, you don't need those until late game and while they are nice and helpfulll, they are not needed to play.  IF you want to do a high end raid than you pay the price, simple.

    You don't need to buy from the bazaar.  When I orginally played I didn't buy anything.  When I played on Fippy last year, got my bard to 70 (I did have a merc though) and didn't buy a thing the bazaar, loot was just too plentifull.

    You don't need augs for your tank to play EQ, if you CHOOSE to do a high end raid your group will likely require you to have them, but you DON"T need to high end raids.

    You don't need to make your gear, because everything is loot dropped and today there are zillions of quests that give gear.

    So you don't need any of those things to play.  No you can't play everything in the game as effectively as someone with those things but they are not required, you are not required to do those things.  You are making a choice.  There are many other areas to go and play in in EQ.

    Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  • JalitanJalitan New market, MDPosts: 99Member Uncommon

    Let the freeloaders that are happily playing thier F2P games and not giving any money continue as they are. Eventually their numbers will increase and the F2P model will either fail because of the lack of revenue or they eventually force people to pay in one way or another. The F2P revenue model cannot last because of the  growing freeloading mentality.

    Look at all the freeloaders responding to this thread. They show signs of  being proud and clever that they do not pay anything even if they have the money.  If you don't care about paying for the developers hard work and maintenance costs, why would they care about you?

  • VengeSunsoarVengeSunsoar Posts: 5,316Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Tjed

    Man, now we have to separate our needs and our wants in a game?  I suppose I should also keep a monthly list of how much my "wants" cost in the game I'm playing in order to tally up my bill.  I can see a F2P game being fun to try out to see if you even like the game, but some of the stuff listed isn't optional for me.

    Raiding

    Acess to raiding gear

    I saw these two listed and yes I'm going to pay for them if I really like the game. 

    I say that games should strive to earn my $15 a month.  Make a game worth it and I would even pay more.  I do not, however, want to play a mediocre game for free and then get micro transactioned to death if I actually want to do anything fun in the game.  I would end up paying more than $15 a month for my "wants"  screw that.

    Thats not new, we've always had to seperate needs and wants from the very early days of PC gaming.  Right from the very first time a complicated or long quest was given, you needed to decide if it was required or just wanted. 

    To me raiding is totally optional, completely superfluous actually. 

    What I need are a character, some skills, some advancement, an area to play in.  If there is no time limit, and no cost to do that voila, it's f2p.  Everything else is optional.  If thats all they provided I would not play it unless it was super fun (not sure how they would do that in this example though). 

    Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  • CalmOceansCalmOceans BergenPosts: 2,273Member
    Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

    Your right it is the bazaar not AH, AH is just common usage.

    I didn't skip alternative abilities.  AA stands for Alternative abilities, you don't need those until late game and while they are nice and helpfulll, they are not needed to play.  IF you want to do a high end raid than you pay the price, simple.

    You don't need to buy from the bazaar.  When I orginally played I didn't buy anything.  When I played on Fippy last year, got my bard to 70 (I did have a merc though) and didn't buy a thing the bazaar, loot was just too plentifull.

    You don't need augs for your tank to play EQ, if you CHOOSE to do a high end raid your group will likely require you to have them, but you DON"T need to high end raids.

    You don't need to make your gear, because everything is loot dropped and today there are zillions of quests that give gear.

    So you don't need any of those things to play.  No you can't play everything in the game as effectively as someone with those things but they are not required, you are not required to do those things.  You are making a choice.  There are many other areas to go and play in in EQ.

    So you're moving your goalposts now.

    You know how much content you can access with 250 AA and 100pp limit?

    At best you can play to PoP struggling, that's 4 out of 19 expansions (and none of the raids).

    That's not even a fourth of the available content.

    So it's "free" as long as you're ok with not playing 3/4 of the game and never raid, is that what you're saying?

  • VengeSunsoarVengeSunsoar Posts: 5,316Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by CalmOceans
    Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

    Your right it is the bazaar not AH, AH is just common usage.

    I didn't skip alternative abilities.  AA stands for Alternative abilities, you don't need those until late game and while they are nice and helpfulll, they are not needed to play.  IF you want to do a high end raid than you pay the price, simple.

    You don't need to buy from the bazaar.  When I orginally played I didn't buy anything.  When I played on Fippy last year, got my bard to 70 (I did have a merc though) and didn't buy a thing the bazaar, loot was just too plentifull.

    You don't need augs for your tank to play EQ, if you CHOOSE to do a high end raid your group will likely require you to have them, but you DON"T need to high end raids.

    You don't need to make your gear, because everything is loot dropped and today there are zillions of quests that give gear.

    So you don't need any of those things to play.  No you can't play everything in the game as effectively as someone with those things but they are not required, you are not required to do those things.  You are making a choice.  There are many other areas to go and play in in EQ.

    So you're moving your goalposts now.

    You know how much content you can access with 250 AA and 100pp limit?

    At best you can play to PoP struggling, that's 4 out of 19 expansions.

    That's not even a fourth of the available content.

    So it's "free" as long as you're ok with not play 3/4 of the game, is that what you're saying?

    Nope.  Goalposts have never moved. 

    You can play almost any part of the game without AA.  yes it will be harder and longer but you can do it.  No you will not likely be able to join a raid guild without them, but you dont' need raids to play. 

    So you can do by far the majority of the game. 

    Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  • CalmOceansCalmOceans BergenPosts: 2,273Member
    Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

    You can play almost any part of the game without AA. 

    Now you're just being a troll, past lvl 60 you die without AA. Why don't you claim you can play the game naked?

  • VengeSunsoarVengeSunsoar Posts: 5,316Member Uncommon

    Once again not really.  You can die before lvl 60 without AA, you can die at lvl 1 if your not carefull.

    But no you don't need the AA unless it is required by your group, they just make it easier.

    Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  • TjedTjed Baltimore, MDPosts: 162Member
    Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
    Originally posted by Tjed

    Man, now we have to separate our needs and our wants in a game?  I suppose I should also keep a monthly list of how much my "wants" cost in the game I'm playing in order to tally up my bill.  I can see a F2P game being fun to try out to see if you even like the game, but some of the stuff listed isn't optional for me.

    Raiding

    Acess to raiding gear

    I saw these two listed and yes I'm going to pay for them if I really like the game. 

    I say that games should strive to earn my $15 a month.  Make a game worth it and I would even pay more.  I do not, however, want to play a mediocre game for free and then get micro transactioned to death if I actually want to do anything fun in the game.  I would end up paying more than $15 a month for my "wants"  screw that.

    Thats not new, we've always had to seperate needs and wants from the very early days of PC gaming.  Right from the very first time a complicated or long quest was given, you needed to decide if it was required or just wanted. 

    To me raiding is totally optional, completely superfluous actually. 

    What I need are a character, some skills, some advancement, an area to play in.  If there is no time limit, and no cost to do that voila, it's f2p.  Everything else is optional.  If thats all they provided I would not play it unless it was super fun (not sure how they would do that in this example though). 

    Well, sure I would decide if something was reqired or wanted in relation to what I wanted to acomplish in the game.  That didn't really bring my wallet into the decision though.  Sure, you can make a relation to time=money and investing the time in that quest could be spent in RL making mone, but to me that's reaching.

    For me raiding is not optional.  I really enjoy it.  I guess it sucks for me that what I enjoy costs more than what you enjoy.  Maybe that's why I prefer a sub based game.

  • VengeSunsoarVengeSunsoar Posts: 5,316Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Vorthanion
    Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
    Originally posted by CalmOceans
    Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

    An you don't need most/any of those things in EQ to play, they make it nice, but it's not needed.

    What, have you even played EQ?

     

    Want to tell me how to do any content past the first few levels when your Alternative abilities are locked down to 250 max? My characters have over 7000 alternative abilities to even play the content.

    Want to tell me how you are going to buy anything when your platinum limit is 100pp when items cost upwards of 100,000pp? You need money to even buy the containers for half the gear in the game.

    Want to tell me how to raid in the game when all raid loot is locked behind a paywall.

    Want to tell me how you are going to play a tank past lvl 70 when half your AC augs are locked behind a paywall?

    You dont need to buy anything from the AH, everything is loot dropped.  You don't need the AA untiil the very late game, even then you don't need them, they are just an added bonus.

    You don't need to raid, I never did.

    Augmentations are nice but again you don't need them. 

    All those things just give added bonuses.

    Dude, the game isn't fun without those "bonuses".  People twink in this game in order to make it fun.  Even the hardcore, diehard EQers play with mercenaries.  I guess your way might be fun for those of the masochistic persuasion.

    All that means is isn't fun for you.  Other people have other priorities. 

    Because I like to solo I didn't really want to do it without a merc.  However I recognize that is a requirement I imposed, not the game. 

    Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  • CalmOceansCalmOceans BergenPosts: 2,273Member
    Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

    But no you don't need the AA unless it is required by your group, they just make it easier.

    Ok I'm done replying, you're being a troll. AA become a requirement in EQ, they are not optional. Either you are completely clueless about EQ, or you're a troll.

  • VengeSunsoarVengeSunsoar Posts: 5,316Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Tjed
    Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
    Originally posted by Tjed

    Man, now we have to separate our needs and our wants in a game?  I suppose I should also keep a monthly list of how much my "wants" cost in the game I'm playing in order to tally up my bill.  I can see a F2P game being fun to try out to see if you even like the game, but some of the stuff listed isn't optional for me.

    Raiding

    Acess to raiding gear

    I saw these two listed and yes I'm going to pay for them if I really like the game. 

    I say that games should strive to earn my $15 a month.  Make a game worth it and I would even pay more.  I do not, however, want to play a mediocre game for free and then get micro transactioned to death if I actually want to do anything fun in the game.  I would end up paying more than $15 a month for my "wants"  screw that.

    Thats not new, we've always had to seperate needs and wants from the very early days of PC gaming.  Right from the very first time a complicated or long quest was given, you needed to decide if it was required or just wanted. 

    To me raiding is totally optional, completely superfluous actually. 

    What I need are a character, some skills, some advancement, an area to play in.  If there is no time limit, and no cost to do that voila, it's f2p.  Everything else is optional.  If thats all they provided I would not play it unless it was super fun (not sure how they would do that in this example though). 

    Well, sure I would decide if something was reqired or wanted in relation to what I wanted to acomplish in the game.  That didn't really bring my wallet into the decision though.  Sure, you can make a relation to time=money and investing the time in that quest could be spent in RL making mone, but to me that's reaching.

    For me raiding is not optional.  I really enjoy it.  I guess it sucks for me that what I enjoy costs more than what you enjoy.  Maybe that's why I prefer a sub based game.

    And thats completely legit.  People's individual preferences and enjoyment would limit the games that they would try.  And it may be that those preferences are really only found in sub based games. 

    If you like to raid, and the best raiding is found in sub based games well then you know what you need to do. 

    I like to build.  Last I played EQ2 I spent a tonne of money on housing because thats what I like to do, never really enjoyed the actual game though. 

    Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  • st4t1ckst4t1ck jonesboro, GAPosts: 600Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by CalmOceans
    Originally posted by Asm0deus

    Again these 2 game shave shitty cash shops, not all f2p games are like this. Some f2p are p2w and smart peeps just move on to another.

    Right, now it's the games I chose that is at fault, not the payment model itself which enabled it?

    These aren't the only F2P like this, in fact it's becoming more and more the norm. Access to content is locked behind a power curve, a power curve that is either not accessible without spending money, or is made so daunting to the player that they eventually give in and spend money on the cash shop.

    Where are your F2P games with only cosmetic items? I don't see many around anymore.

    yes, it is the games fault, or at least the game company, just like star wars, its not the fact that f2p is out there, it's the fact that the company chose to set up there f2p restrictions in that manner,

    look at a game like Aion, you have no gated content, all classes all the new updates all classes weapons no restrictions

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