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[Column] The Elder Scrolls Online: Progression as Longevity

13

Comments

  • ShadanwolfShadanwolf Posts: 2,114Member Uncommon

    Thanks for the article Bill. More please !

     

    As for the game (as an on/off DAOC player for over 10 years) I hope we see the next generation DAOC set in an Elder Scrolls world.Give me that wonderful DAOC type RVR...and I'm set for years to come.

  • JyiigaJyiiga Seneca, SCPosts: 1,041Member Uncommon
    I've watched that video from start to finish a few times. I literally take nothing away from it. It is neither Elder Scrolls or anything new for the MMO genre. It is a total rehash of existing systems and gameplay from OLD MMOs. So just take another IP and trash it.. Just like we have Conan, Star Wars, Star Trek and everything else under the sun. Eventually there will be nothing left to burn. Its already to late for ESO... all of the core systems are laid out and every single one of them stinks of the same crap we have seen for the past decade. 
  • ShortyBibleShortyBible Posts: 397Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by karmath
    Originally posted by winter
    Originally posted by ShortyBible

    Player housing and a robust crafting is all I need as an end game to make me continue to play for a long time. (Toss in some rare collectablies)

    I utterly despise raids and  grinding for gear. 

    The devs have stated there are no plans for player housing.

    What? An Elder scrolls game with no PH?   You gave it to us in Oblivion and Skyrim and I enjoyed it.  Don't recall if it was available in Morrowind.

    I am guessing that Skooma won't be available also.

    The Devs used it all :)

    SKooma is a illegal drug, while MMO's may have gratuitous violence and Boose they may never have Drugs or sex of any kind as this will corrupt impressionable school children and keep them from reaching their potential as mass murders, and high school terrorists.

       All kidding aside I thought I read the Devs say they were planning on player housing after launch just not with launch

    Originally they said it was 'too hard'. If they do patch it in post launch expect it to be instanced and shallow.

    That would be horrible. I really enjoyed UO housing and crafting. I am not a great PVP player (old man) but I do enjoy games. I don't mind getting killed and looted as long as I have some way to avoid it. In UO I used stealth and hiding.

    I was also a miner and crafter, I repaired armor and weapons at Brits forge for tips :)

    Never had to join a guild , but had many friends and socialized a lot.

    OHH I miss those days.

    I guess my point is that end game/progression does not = raids/gear.

  • ShortyBibleShortyBible Posts: 397Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by winter
    Originally posted by ShortyBible

    Player housing and a robust crafting is all I need as an end game to make me continue to play for a long time. (Toss in some rare collectablies)

    I utterly despise raids and  grinding for gear. 

    The devs have stated there are no plans for player housing.

    What? An Elder scrolls game with no PH?   You gave it to us in Oblivion and Skyrim and I enjoyed it.  Don't recall if it was available in Morrowind.

    I am guessing that Skooma won't be available also.

    The Devs used it all :)

    SKooma is a illegal drug, while MMO's may have gratuitous violence and Boose they may never have Drugs or sex of any kind as this will corrupt impressionable school children and keep them from reaching their potential as mass murders, and high school terrorists.

       All kidding aside I thought I read the Devs say they were planning on player housing after launch just not with launch

    Haha funny stuff. I never used Skooma in game.

    Hopefully if they do impliment player housing the system  will be robust.

  • DraronDraron A town in, KYPosts: 993Member

    I'm going to try it, despite being dissapointed they went with classes that have pre-determined skills for each weaponset. If only they went with a free form class system, where you choose a certain number of Major and Minor skills, each having abitilies tied to them and allow you to level skills not a character level. 

     

    If they can have an actual long term skill progression that lasts past reaching the level cap that'll be the next best thing to the above IMO. But if it turns out like GW2, where you unlock all your weapon skills by level 10 and only unlock the occasional skill every three levels (with very few options) I'll be burnt out fast. There was no staying power there.

     

    I really hope they don't dissapoint with this. I was completely turned off when I first heard about the game, but slowly they've been winning me back. And this is from someone who currently has Morrowind, Oblivion and Skyrim installed with all the official plug-ins/expansions.
     
     
  • BuddyDudeBuddyDude Seattle, WAPosts: 47Member
    Originally posted by Burntvet
    Originally posted by paulytheb
    Not getting my hopes up for this one. Seems like another clone. Not planning to purchase.

    I agree.

    Another expensive "one-month wonder".

    Pass.

     

    And I also think that the so called "gaming press" is trying awfully hard to get people (us) to keep buying these games, over and over.

     

    For sure, MMOs are stale, look how much work went into polishing the turd that is guild wars 2. The gamers know it was a flop. Yeah, let's fight zombies and run karma circles for hours on end. We need an mmo that is a lot different. 

  • azzamasinazzamasin Butler, OHPosts: 3,066Member Uncommon

    I agree with you 100% Bill.  This is the primary motivation for me playing any type of RPG.  Character progression!  I can handle some vertical progression as it keeps the carrot firmly in front of your eyes but horizontal progression that is both meaningful and detailed will go along ways to keeping me playing.  Just look at Asherons Call, the perennial horizontal progression MMO in existince, a game you can basically plateau within a few months but contians years of character progression through soft and hard capped of stats and skill pooints.

    Do not forget about the Diablo 3 style of slotting class specific skills either, this adds a whole new depth to horizontal progression.

     

    For those who say its a clone?  A clone of what?  If you imply that its a clone of anything then you are surely mistaken, it contains some elements of GW2, DAoC, and the TES series RPG's with a lot of new systems.

     

    I am anxiously awaiting to see if this game gives meaningful content driven, exploration centric gameplay that I desperatley crave!

     

    Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

    Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!

    Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!

    image

  • azzamasinazzamasin Butler, OHPosts: 3,066Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Draron

    I'm going to try it, despite being dissapointed they went with classes that have pre-determined skills for each weaponset. If only they went with a free form class system, where you choose a certain number of Major and Minor skills, each having abitilies tied to them and allow you to level skills not a character level. 

     

    If they can have an actual long term skill progression that lasts past reaching the level cap that'll be the next best thing to the above IMO. But if it turns out like GW2, where you unlock all your weapon skills by level 10 and only unlock the occasional skill every three levels (with very few options) I'll be burnt out fast. There was no staying power there.

     

    I really hope they don't dissapoint with this. I was completely turned off when I first heard about the game, but slowly they've been winning me back. And this is from someone who currently has Morrowind, Oblivion and Skyrim installed with all the official plug-ins/expansions.
     
     

    Your weapons skills are not pre determined, you get to chose both weapon skills and class skills to place on your hotbar.

     

     

     

    God the people with no knowledge of a game drive me bat $hit crazy!

    Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

    Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!

    Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!

    image

  • MothanosMothanos ArnhemPosts: 1,860Member Uncommon

    What alot of people long for is a almost perfect pvp game, where you have fun no matter what class you play or what role you want to invest in.

    You want epic scale battles

    You want balance

    You want progresion

     

    Lets take a look at daoc and gw2 for a moment as both games offer this type of gameplay and have done it alright with a few flaws, but and here it comes again,

    gw2 = boring wvw...no reward versus efford - it doesnt have to be gear or sieges or gold it has to be bragging rights.

    if your guild claims a keep with your emblem on it then motivation needs to come naturaly to hold it no matter what.

    gw2 doesnt offer this even tough it should be, i dont understand community's anymore at this point.

    I dont understand studio's anymore either, people are begging for a sandbox like Eve in a fantasy setting and we just get another themepark mmo.

     

    Rewards + bragging rights needs to be balanced.

    Fighting needs to have a purpose, the lands you conquer needs to have your faction / guild emblem on it.

    Guilds that forms an alliance within factions like Eve makes epic political systems.

    Those lands needs to be massive, not like in GW2 where you are dropped into a instance / battleground and resets after a week or month or day.

     

    Maybe Archage will deliver this, but its a korean / japanese / chinese game, we have all seen Aion flop.

    Maybe AA will not, but i have strong belief it will flop just like ESO and its such a shame mmo studio's just doesnt listen to the needs of hardcore mmorpg gamers...

     

    Create a pvp mmo with Eve like systems of lands to be conequered, alliance's to be developt, backstabbing guilds flipping side's to make more dynamic and realistic war mmo's.

     

    There are only a few sandbox games out there and hundreds of themeparks copy cats of EQ / WoW.

    Why do we not get such brutal mmo's when so many mmo's are created ?

    I hope there is still room for improvement for ESO, but to me it just looks like themepark mmo #141343489098272934 who sells 2 million at launch and then drops to 500k subs 2 months after.

     

    Maybe iam alone on this as i dont see many like minded people who prefer what i just described :(

  • ApraxisApraxis RegensburgPosts: 1,515Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Mike-McQueen
    I don't see unlocking abilities for weapons and armor as character advancement. It'll probably not take as much time as you'd think before you've unlocked everything and then what. Idk they need something more solid to call it AA to me.

    Well.. i took quite some time to be RR11 in DAoC and unlock all available abilities for it. And with respeccing and choosing another set of abilities(you could never choose everything available) it was still quite interesting.

    As long as abilities dont increase the power gap to much, and just improve the tactical viably you could lengthen that process to almost infinity. It would not be a problem to introduce RR20 or RR30 in DaoC and introduce another set of abilities, although the power gap of the RR abilities in DAoC were in my mind a little bit to huge.

    But nevertheless the DAoC RR progression system was one of the best, if not the best, i have ever seen in any mmo.

  • skydiver12skydiver12 burgundPosts: 432Member
    Originally posted by Jyiiga
    I've watched that video from start to finish a few times. I literally take nothing away from it. It is neither Elder Scrolls or anything new for the MMO genre. It is a total rehash of existing systems and gameplay from OLD MMOs. So just take another IP and trash it.. Just like we have Conan, Star Wars, Star Trek and everything else under the sun. Eventually there will be nothing left to burn. Its already to late for ESO... all of the core systems are laid out and every single one of them stinks of the same crap we have seen for the past decade. 

    Couldn't have said it better, especially when you think about it that WoW removed their "weapon skilling" and GW2s weapon skilling ended up as something fast and mundane that it can be compared to set up keybinds for a new character or game.

    Something you have to quickly do for 5 minutes to enjoy the rest of the time.

    Both games showed how "weapon skilling" isn't goint to work out as anything different as just beeing "there" and annoy people. If TESO increases the grind time it's still not proper progression for me. 

     

  • moguy2moguy2 Saint Peters, MOPosts: 337Member
    There wont be pandas. Nuff said.
  • killahhkillahh calgary, ABPosts: 437Member
    I see a lot of people seeing fail about this game.
    The only thing that fails is you the people Pampered self egotistic fools.

    You want a hard game, but cry when its too hard, you want a game that's long, but cry when its too long. You want to be the best, but whine when others are better.

    You know why EQUAL, UO, still are around?

    That's cause the game Devs basically are saying here's this game, its hard and uncompromising, and if you dont like it flock off, not pander to the pampered masses.

    You want the perfect game? UO type open skillsets, eq style uncompromising hardness for raids(hate,fear, as examples), and daoc style three way combat.

    And most of you would still cry, why?, cause you want it easy, so your the ones failing.

    And what do we have here, hmm, lets see.
    so far sounds like my hypothetical best game so far.

    Gonada Dahung,over 20 years of mmorpg's and counting....Please Lord, let someone make a game that had all the awesomeness of UO, EQ and EVE...

  • YamotaYamota LondonPosts: 6,620Member

    "If ZOS' Elder Scrolls Online is going to serve players a traditional theme park endgame of dungeons, raids, and PVP I can live with that"

    I cannot live with that or rather I wont buy the game if this is the case. How is it acceptable that their greatest game ever, Skyrim, is freeform sandboxy yet the mmo will be a ThemePark?

    That is completely un-acceptable and anyone who is fan of Skyrim should boycott this game if it will be linear ThemePark nonsense.

  • azzamasinazzamasin Butler, OHPosts: 3,066Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Yamota

    "If ZOS' Elder Scrolls Online is going to serve players a traditional theme park endgame of dungeons, raids, and PVP I can live with that"

    I cannot live with that or rather I wont buy the game if this is the case. How is it acceptable that their greatest game ever, Skyrim, is freeform sandboxy yet the mmo will be a ThemePark?

    That is completely un-acceptable and anyone who is fan of Skyrim should boycott this game if it will be linear ThemePark nonsense.

    And yet ESO is all about free form exploration set in the same locales.

     

    You get to do "most" everything in the MMO as you did in the single player RPG.  On top of this they add alot of additional features and systems that make the modern MMO fun and more conducive to a multiplayer perspective.  You get the best of both worlds, whats not to love?

    Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

    Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!

    Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!

    image

  • achesomaachesoma Portland, ORPosts: 1,000Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by azzamasin
    Originally posted by Yamota

    "If ZOS' Elder Scrolls Online is going to serve players a traditional theme park endgame of dungeons, raids, and PVP I can live with that"

    I cannot live with that or rather I wont buy the game if this is the case. How is it acceptable that their greatest game ever, Skyrim, is freeform sandboxy yet the mmo will be a ThemePark?

    That is completely un-acceptable and anyone who is fan of Skyrim should boycott this game if it will be linear ThemePark nonsense.

    And yet ESO is all about free form exploration set in the same locales.

     

    You get to do "most" everything in the MMO as you did in the single player RPG.  On top of this they add alot of additional features and systems that make the modern MMO fun and more conducive to a multiplayer perspective.  You get the best of both worlds, whats not to love?

    Actually, this is false.  There will NOT be free form exploration.  Players will be limited to their faction zones only and of course Cyrodiil.  Unless you have a different definition of what "free form exploration" is.

    image

  • rammur65rammur65 spokane, WAPosts: 57Member
    these guys are aiming at the elder scroll fans anyone else is just a bonus just saying if anyone can pull a good mmo out their buts its gonna be these guys for the simple fact they have like 5 games 5 epic ass games that spanned the last 15-20 years so they already have a great rpg structure down and as a es fan since day one this game is looking great so far at first i was liek blah but its lookin nice if they stivck with what they got now and not go to far overboard we may see a really great mmo finally.
  • rammur65rammur65 spokane, WAPosts: 57Member
    and yes its gonna have free form exploration they have already said it gonna be pretty much like oblivious and skyrim in those reguards they have a set map for pvp supposedly .
  • LatronusLatronus Lexington Park, MDPosts: 692Member
    Originally posted by moguy2
    There wont be pandas. Nuff said.

    Come on, everyone loves a cute, cuddly baby Panda!  At least we all love seeing them in a zoo. 

    image
  • LatronusLatronus Lexington Park, MDPosts: 692Member
    Originally posted by rammur65
    these guys are aiming at the elder scroll fans anyone else is just a bonus just saying if anyone can pull a good mmo out their buts its gonna be these guys for the simple fact they have like 5 games 5 epic ass games that spanned the last 15-20 years so they already have a great rpg structure down and as a es fan since day one this game is looking great so far at first i was liek blah but its lookin nice if they stivck with what they got now and not go to far overboard we may see a really great mmo finally.

    I remember similiar things being said about SWTOR.  I still play SWTOR but a great game it isn't.  I hope you are correct though because I'd like to see a good MMO come out.  Been a long time since I've seen a really good MMO, like since EQ...

    image
  • RaamRaam SuldrupPosts: 35Member

    It seems like a game that might be worth keeping an eye on though. Bethesda's always been fairly good at telling a story.

     

    However, I'm worried it'll end up as any other traditional fantasy MMO. 

     

    Personally I think the genre is a bit worn out - perhaps with the exception of what Lineage Eternal might be able to bring.. other than that, very few seem to really sparkle any originality with them... so I worry this might just be like any other fantasy genre MMO, just with the Elder Scrolls brand attached to it.

     

    - Signed by, Raam KxThorath
    Founder/admin of the unofficial World of Darkness facebook group
    https://www.facebook.com/groups/wodmmo/

  • BurntvetBurntvet Baltimore, MDPosts: 2,941Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by rammur65
    and yes its gonna have free form exploration they have already said it gonna be pretty much like oblivious and skyrim in those reguards they have a set map for pvp supposedly .

    Except you are excluded from almost 2/3 of the map on any given toon.

    Plus there are hard race/class restrictions.

    I do not recall seeing any of that in Skyrim or Oblivion.

     

  • SuprGamerXSuprGamerX Montreal, QCPosts: 531Member
    LOL!! I'm seeing posts for this game as if it's going hit shelves by summer 2013.  Elder scrolls or not , it's moving too quickly and too much info is being made public. I'm throwing the red flag on this game for now , looks shiny and all , but will it be better then skyrim itself? Or just be a highly graphicated WoW game?   I only hope Bethesda don't ruin the AMAZING Elder Scrolls franchise , because then I'll be really pissed !
  • ArglebargleArglebargle Austin, TXPosts: 1,415Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by achesoma
    Originally posted by azzamasin
    Originally posted by Yamota

    "If ZOS' Elder Scrolls Online is going to serve players a traditional theme park endgame of dungeons, raids, and PVP I can live with that"

    I cannot live with that or rather I wont buy the game if this is the case. How is it acceptable that their greatest game ever, Skyrim, is freeform sandboxy yet the mmo will be a ThemePark?

    That is completely un-acceptable and anyone who is fan of Skyrim should boycott this game if it will be linear ThemePark nonsense.

    And yet ESO is all about free form exploration set in the same locales.

     

    You get to do "most" everything in the MMO as you did in the single player RPG.  On top of this they add alot of additional features and systems that make the modern MMO fun and more conducive to a multiplayer perspective.  You get the best of both worlds, whats not to love?

    Actually, this is false.  There will NOT be free form exploration.  Players will be limited to their faction zones only and of course Cyrodiil.  Unless you have a different definition of what "free form exploration" is.

    Well, technically, in Skyrim you are limited to the one region.  In Morrowind you were confined to Vvardinfall and didn't even get to see the rest of the province.    In Oblivion you only got to run about a poorly designed Cyrodil, with invisible walls about it --  and endless identical demonplanes.

    If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.

  • ArglebargleArglebargle Austin, TXPosts: 1,415Member Uncommon

    What I find kinda funny is that people have been hollaring for years for a new DAoC.   Here comes a game obviously based strongly on DAoC's mechanics.....and it  catches the grief.  

     

    My complaints about the game are pretty much about those things specifically from Elder Scrolls that get forced into the DAoC mold.

    If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.

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