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Gameplay first, graphics later.

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  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,633Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Quizzical

    Whenever I try to implement something new, it's likely to crash the first time because I forgot to specify some attribute.  It's usually pretty easy to fix, I'm getting better at it, and it doesn't lend itself to low-probability crashes that are a major pain to debug.  But maybe I am doing it wrong.  Do you know an easy fix for that?

    For things like the textures, it *should be* relatively easy. Create an exception handler to trap the error code and log it (along with any additional info to help you identify where the error actually was). If you're using VB, try to avoid "On Error Resume" - it's an easy out but it's sloppy. :) Google "programming catch exceptions" and find a page on the language you're using.

    EDIT: And I just realized "You're doing it wrong" probably came across a bit arrogant. My apologies if it did. I should have added some smilies in there.

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • QuizzicalQuizzical Posts: 14,765Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by Quizzical

    Whenever I try to implement something new, it's likely to crash the first time because I forgot to specify some attribute.  It's usually pretty easy to fix, I'm getting better at it, and it doesn't lend itself to low-probability crashes that are a major pain to debug.  But maybe I am doing it wrong.  Do you know an easy fix for that?

    For things like the textures, it *should be* relatively easy. Create an exception handler to trap the error code and log it (along with any additional info to help you identify where the error actually was). If you're using VB, try to avoid "On Error Resume" - it's an easy out but it's sloppy. :) Google "programming catch exceptions" and find a page on the language you're using.

    EDIT: And I just realized "You're doing it wrong" probably came across a bit arrogant. My apologies if it did. I should have added some smilies in there.

    My computer programming skills are almost entirely self-taught, so there probably are a lot of things that I am doing wrong.  And I've used the "you're doing it wrong" line enough times myself that I can hardly complain about someone else saying that to me.

    I'm using Java, and when the game crashes because I forgot to specify something, if it gives me a null pointer exception or index out of bounds exception or some such, it tells me exactly what line it crashed on, which usually makes it easy to track down the cause, sometimes by outputting some text immediately before the crash, then letting it crash again.  What is more of a pain is when the program just hangs and won't tell me what line it hung on.  I can track that down by outputting text at various points and seeing what the last text to get output before it hangs is, but it would be easier if it would just tell me which line it stopped at.

  • Abuz0rAbuz0r Lexington, KYPosts: 354Member Uncommon

    OK I see a lot of people think my "graphics later" means I like 2d browser based trash compactors.

    WOW HAS WHAT I CONSIDER SUFFICIENT GRAPHICS. 

    It has worse graphics than 80% of new games being released.  Instead of focusing on how everything looked, they made sure the people playing have a lot of content.

    This is basically where WoW clones go wrong, they clone the game's style and the quest set up, but they can't get the gameplay right.  Just further proving my point.

    All I'm freaking saying is I don't need to be playing on a blue-ray fantasy world.  I hate when I log in a game and it's obvious they spent their entire budget on amazing graphics and the game it self is garbage.

  • FearumFearum Cinnaminson, NJPosts: 1,166Member Uncommon

    I want both. Why settle for anything less?

    The better question is when are they going to be able to match great graphics with great gameplay?

    Is it the code or the technology that is holding it back?

  • QuizzicalQuizzical Posts: 14,765Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Abuz0r

    OK I see a lot of people think my "graphics later" means I like 2d browser based trash compactors.

    WOW HAS WHAT I CONSIDER SUFFICIENT GRAPHICS. 

    It has worse graphics than 80% of new games being released.  Instead of focusing on how everything looked, they made sure the people playing have a lot of content.

    Don't get the idea that every game could make WoW-quality graphics for free.  Blizzard has surely spent many millions of dollars making the graphics for WoW.  WoW probably has a larger budget than any other MMORPG ever made.

    The reason WoW graphics look dated is that they are.  At launch, Blizzard was limited to what they could do in 2004.  Newer APIs (and yes, even the ubiquitous but very old DirectX 9.0c is a "newer" API than what WoW had available at launch) and dramatically faster hardware make it possible to produce higher quality graphics at less cost, and it would be very foolish to ignore that in pursuit of WoW-quality graphics.

  • 13lake13lake Posts: 295Member Uncommon
    When i get life-like graphics on a virtual reality headset, I'll start whining for better gameplay, untill then speed up technology and get us better graphics DEVs !
  • ZorgoZorgo Deepintheheartof, TXPosts: 2,226Member
    Originally posted by Quizzical
    Originally posted by Abuz0r

    OK I see a lot of people think my "graphics later" means I like 2d browser based trash compactors.

    WOW HAS WHAT I CONSIDER SUFFICIENT GRAPHICS. 

    It has worse graphics than 80% of new games being released.  Instead of focusing on how everything looked, they made sure the people playing have a lot of content.

    Don't get the idea that every game could make WoW-quality graphics for free.  Blizzard has surely spent many millions of dollars making the graphics for WoW.  WoW probably has a larger budget than any other MMORPG ever made.

    The reason WoW graphics look dated is that they are.  At launch, Blizzard was limited to what they could do in 2004.  Newer APIs (and yes, even the ubiquitous but very old DirectX 9.0c is a "newer" API than what WoW had available at launch) and dramatically faster hardware make it possible to produce higher quality graphics at less cost, and it would be very foolish to ignore that in pursuit of WoW-quality graphics.

    Just to add to what Quiz said,

     I think WoW has great graphics that have held up extremely well. Well beyond 'sufficient'.  I don't mind the older graphics because it was wrapped in a great stylized art. While I can tell from a tech perspective they are older (limited animations, limited skeletons, 'flatness', etc.) I believe the art style made up for that. What they did with their technical limitations was done very well, it has held up visually better than, say EQ1, imo.  The world is beautiful, the animations can be down right hilarious (in a good way), and it is an art style branded in my memory. It would be hard to imagine WoW 'improving' the graphics, because it might not feel like WoW anymore.

    Contrast that with something like EQ1 where I believe a graphic overhaul starting from square one and a more cohesive artistic style, would do the product good. I think the same thing done to WoW  would potentially lose subs. Like making 'new' coke. 

    I mean really, when compared to the competition, saying warcraft held up 'well' is an understatement, some of the older games, imo, are unplayable simply from a graphics perspective.

    Anyway, when someone rejects warcraft due to 'dated' graphics, I think it is wise they don't look at the rest of the iceberg under the water. 

     

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by Quizzical
    Originally posted by Abuz0r

    OK I see a lot of people think my "graphics later" means I like 2d browser based trash compactors.

    WOW HAS WHAT I CONSIDER SUFFICIENT GRAPHICS. 

    It has worse graphics than 80% of new games being released.  Instead of focusing on how everything looked, they made sure the people playing have a lot of content.

    Don't get the idea that every game could make WoW-quality graphics for free.  Blizzard has surely spent many millions of dollars making the graphics for WoW.  WoW probably has a larger budget than any other MMORPG ever made.

    The reason WoW graphics look dated is that they are.  At launch, Blizzard was limited to what they could do in 2004.  Newer APIs (and yes, even the ubiquitous but very old DirectX 9.0c is a "newer" API than what WoW had available at launch) and dramatically faster hardware make it possible to produce higher quality graphics at less cost, and it would be very foolish to ignore that in pursuit of WoW-quality graphics.

    Oh .. wow has good graphics .. not good in terms of polygon count, but good in terms of design and art.

    Last time i was still playing Cata, i really enjoy those shoulders that have gear turning in them, or the staff that has a wiggling tail. It looks 10x more interesting than the realistic looking but generic axe or staff in SKYRIM. It is about the design, not the realism.

  • ArclanArclan Chicago, ILPosts: 1,494Member Uncommon

    Obviously true, OP. Look at minecraft and WoW. Inferior graphics but the games were far more popular than SWTOR, POBS, etc.

    Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon.
    In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit

  • worldalphaworldalpha Milton, ONPosts: 403Member
    Graphics gets people to start playing a game, gameplay keeps them there.

    Thanks,
    Mike
    Working on Social Strategy MMORTS (now Launched!) http://www.worldalpha.com

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