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Cant you have sandbox co-op, non-pvp?

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  • TheocritusTheocritus Gary, INPosts: 3,752Member Uncommon
         Its funny that the term "sandbox" is used at all because I dont remember any kids killing other kids in the sandbox when I was that age......
  • qwaveqwave Smithsburg, MDPosts: 8Member

    If you do not have PvP in a sandbox, there is constant power and wealth entering the economy indefinitely.  Players do not fear consequences for their actions.  The game world becomes one massive 'city', where there are no real objectives, conflicts, or politics.

    I am the developer for an upcoming sandbox MMORPG, Topia Online, and I would love to hear a solution to the above problems.  My design team and I have struggled for a long time on how to possibly create a sandbox without PvP or Permadeath.  What will the players be doing all day, and what would stop things like inflation if nothing ever 'goes away'?

    If you think you have the answer to make a non-PvP sandbox world a lasting and fun experience, please tell me!

  • apocolusterapocoluster newport news, VAPosts: 1,321Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by FromHell

    A sandbox is supposed to simulate reality.

    In RL you could walk out of your house and get run over by a bus or stabbed by a criminal who wants to rob you.

    RL=ultimate sandbox

     Ive said this very same thing...I wonder if you are going to get flamed as badly as I was.   Of course your in support of  Sandy games I i was against when I said it.  Might make a slight differnce  to the flamers.   Guess Ill sit back and watch the hypocracy .

    No matter how cynical you become, its never enough to keep up - Lily Tomlin

  • apocolusterapocoluster newport news, VAPosts: 1,321Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Scellow
    Go on Second Life, everything with SandBox but no PVP no PVE just sandboxe :)

    or Utherverse  just like 2L but with sexy time  :)

    No matter how cynical you become, its never enough to keep up - Lily Tomlin

  • AeliousAelious Portland, ORPosts: 2,854Member Uncommon
    Well if we're emulating real life then those who PK, I'd their characters are caught, are locked from play from there on out. I could live with that, make every game FFA PvP :)

    Since that won't happen I'll enjoy PvP but assert there should be places for it that are optional to go and participate. Once in that area of course there is no complaining about being PK'd
  • VesaviusVesavius BristolPosts: 7,645Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by qwave

    If you do not have PvP in a sandbox, there is constant power and wealth entering the economy indefinitely. 

    Easily addressed by gear degredation and other simple design choices. PvP is *not* the only solution to these issues.

    Players do not fear consequences for their actions. 

    Tell that to classic era EQ players where REPUTATION and having a functional extended social network was probably the most single valuable thing you could have in the game.

    The game world becomes one massive 'city', where there are no real objectives, conflicts, or politics.

    No objectives? No conflicts or politics? Again, you never played classic era EQ, right?

    I am the developer for an upcoming sandbox MMORPG, Topia Online, and I would love to hear a solution to the above problems. 

    My advice would be to play, and I mean properly play, a pure PvE *interdependent* MMORPG and see how they work. Modern solo-centric PvE games will not provide any answers here. Look for when they next launch a classic EQ server and jump in- You will learn a lot probably about player self policing and how a community that needs to rely on each other works without PvP being needed.

     

  • SinellaSinella BudapestPosts: 340Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by qwave

    If you do not have PvP in a sandbox, there is constant power and wealth entering the economy indefinitely.  Players do not fear consequences for their actions.  The game world becomes one massive 'city', where there are no real objectives, conflicts, or politics.

    I am the developer for an upcoming sandbox MMORPG, Topia Online, and I would love to hear a solution to the above problems.  My design team and I have struggled for a long time on how to possibly create a sandbox without PvP or Permadeath.  What will the players be doing all day, and what would stop things like inflation if nothing ever 'goes away'?

    If you think you have the answer to make a non-PvP sandbox world a lasting and fun experience, please tell me!

    I'm surprised that as a developer you haven't realized yet that PvP doesn't destroy items and wealth, it only changes the owner of it. To get rid of money and items in a game you need item decay and/or item loss on death. And I mean PvE death...if a player dies in PvE he can lose everything he had on him, you don't need PvP for that.

     

    You need to code some money sink too, like money could be needed for buying land to build on, to pay for upkeep, to hire NPCs to gather for you etc. Only some ideas.

     

    I recommand you to play RuneScape for some months ( as a member). It's very sandboxy, and there is just a huge amount of content to play apart of PvP, and even apart of combat. That game has the most non-combat oriented content I've ever seen.  And by content I don't mean stupid repetitive quests, but tools and systems to have fun in game. You may get some ideas ( I don't mean copying it), developers and players are way too combat orientated nowadays imo, that's why our games get so boring after a short while.

  • ShaikeShaike NesherPosts: 301Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by qwave

    If you do not have PvP in a sandbox, there is constant power and wealth entering the economy indefinitely.  Players do not fear consequences for their actions.  The game world becomes one massive 'city', where there are no real objectives, conflicts, or politics.

    I am the developer for an upcoming sandbox MMORPG, Topia Online, and I would love to hear a solution to the above problems.  My design team and I have struggled for a long time on how to possibly create a sandbox without PvP or Permadeath.  What will the players be doing all day, and what would stop things like inflation if nothing ever 'goes away'?

    If you think you have the answer to make a non-PvP sandbox world a lasting and fun experience, please tell me!

    I can think os something - i will try to explain.

    The NPCs are only "policing" the "city" as you describe it, which means that if someone should be punished he will. The "trick" is to make the "prison" something different - (like real prisons if you wish) - then you are not "banned for 10 years" as others stated here - but go in a special place (in game) where other criminals are. There will be rules there , but (like in real prisons) you could prob do some stuff without getting caught (and maybe increase you rep/power etc in prison), and when you are out you have to conform to the rules outside.

    So that way the PVP part is actually in prison (and maybe if you aren't caught when outside of prison) - could be nice i think.. like 2 games in one - PVE mostly outside the jail/prison , and mostly (but not only) PVP in prison (as a bad guy - which most PVPers love to be)

    PM in person if you think this could wokr - i might have ways of elaborating on this....

    Just my 2 cents...

    image

  • AeliousAelious Portland, ORPosts: 2,854Member Uncommon
    Qwave

    IMO you can have both dedicated PvP and PvE in a sandbox MMO, even the same game/world/server. First you would need factions or another "agitator" that would cause strife between peoples. Then take areas of the gameworld, warfronts between nations for example, and make those open PvP areas. They would have no visible lines to them and when you look at a game map they would have the same geographical space as the PvE only areas.

    Both PvE and PvP areas would have their own dungeons, world bosses and reasons for being there. The idea of areas and items, though equal in power, should entice people to head into "danger" to get to them. Because it would be more difficult to progress in the PvP areas I think having a faction based reputation system would be good for PKs and general activities while in PvP areas.

    2cp
  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Sioux City, IAPosts: 3,828Member


    Originally posted by qwave
    If you do not have PvP in a sandbox, there is constant power and wealth entering the economy indefinitely.  Players do not fear consequences for their actions.  The game world becomes one massive 'city', where there are no real objectives, conflicts, or politics.

    I am the developer for an upcoming sandbox MMORPG, Topia Online, and I would love to hear a solution to the above problems.  My design team and I have struggled for a long time on how to possibly create a sandbox without PvP or Permadeath.  What will the players be doing all day, and what would stop things like inflation if nothing ever 'goes away'?

    If you think you have the answer to make a non-PvP sandbox world a lasting and fun experience, please tell me!


    What will players be doing all day? Having fun, of course! They will hunting, gathering, building, combating, exploring, fishing, chatting, organizing, dungeon delving, and the many, many other activities players like to do in a game. It is very interesting when one looks at the creativity of players. Give them (the players) the tools and they will thrive. Not "Foundary Tools" like NWN advertises, but the freedom to come up with and do things on their own, unscripted.

    Handle economy? Item decay. Don't have monsters dropping coins and sell-able gear, unless they actually use it and equip it. Don't fill your world with items that have no use other than inflating your economy, aka vendor trash. Limit vendor's wealth. Why do they seem to make gold appear on demand?

    Is that a fair start?

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR

  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Sioux City, IAPosts: 3,828Member


    Originally posted by mothefo

    Originally posted by Larsa

    Originally posted by mothefo
    it's tricky because when you dont' allow pvp you are limiting freedom. ...
    And when you allow PvP you are limiting freedom as well. One freedom is the freedom of the killer to kill, the other one is the freedom of the victim lo live. The freedom argument is a very weak one.You might prefer sandboxes with PvP and that's fine. I prefer them as well, playing Wurm on a PvP server. But I can see that it's very well possible to have a sandbox MMORPG without PvP, I need only point to Wurm again, this time to the PvE servers.
    i disagree with your statement on freedom. living and dieing are both freedoms. emagine a life where you couldn't die even if you wanted......you'd feel forced to live, not free to live, because in the end you do not have the choice. in the end it all comes back to choice. a game that has more choice feels more free, even if that choice means sometimes being victim of other peoples choices. You still have the choice to do exactly what he did to you.  as for the PVE Wurm, sure it's possible, but it gets very boring when all you can do is build and destroy structures all day.
    Freedom for one usually comes as a constriction to another. Forcing PvP upon players who do not enjoy it is kind of restricting, don't you think?

    If someone wishes to enjoy battling monsters (not other players), crafting, building, exploring, what have you, why impose your enjoyment of PvP on them? Sure, you have the freedom to PvP, but is that freedom for the other player who has no desire for such gameplay?


    Originally posted by FromHell
    complete BS.A sandbox is supposed to simulate reality.In RL you could walk out of your house and get run over by a bus or stabbed by a criminal who wants to rob you.RL=ultimate sandbox a good sandbox game simulates this or it's just another average carebear themepark
    Oh please. Buses are monsters. They can kill a player. Bandits exist in game (NPC), without the help of a PC doing their job for them.

    In "the real world", can you walk out *your* door and kill your neighbor? You betcha! And you could also serve 10+ years in jail for the act. In "the real world", can you open up your uzi in a shopping mall? You betcha! And again, you could serve jailtime. Get what I am getting at here? In PvP, there are NO consequences for one's actions, which means people will act accordingly.

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR

  • LarsaLarsa NurembergPosts: 990Member


    Originally posted by qwave

    If you do not have PvP in a sandbox, there is constant power and wealth entering the economy indefinitely.


    Other posters already told you that there is no difference in this respect between PvP and PvE games - PvP doesn't remove wealth from the game, only the ownership changes. The problem you describe (wealth entering the game) exists both in PvP and PvE games. Item loss on death or decay can be implemented - no matter whether it's a PvE or PvP game.


    Originally posted by qwave
    Players do not fear consequences for their actions. 

    Again, this has nothing to do with PvP or PvE - if a game causes you to drop all items on death there is a real consequence for your action, no matter whether the character died to a player or mob.


    Originally posted by qwave

    ... I am the developer for an upcoming sandbox MMORPG, Topia Online, and I would love to hear a solution to the above problems. My design team and I have struggled for a long time on how to possibly create a sandbox without PvP or Permadeath. What will the players be doing all day, and what would stop things like inflation if nothing ever 'goes away'?


    With all due respect, qwave, did you and your design team ever bothered to look at one of the sandbox MMORPGs without PvP? I'm curious how you and your design team "struggled" when there are several other games around to show you how it's done.


    Originally posted by qwave
    If you think you have the answer to make a non-PvP sandbox world a lasting and fun experience, please tell me!
     

    Just look at Wurm, Istaria, Ryzom, ATitD, even Eve (a large number of players never engages in PvP) and a slew of other games.

    I maintain this List of Sandbox MMORPGs. Please post or send PM for corrections and suggestions.

  • WraithoneWraithone Salt Lake City, UTPosts: 3,593Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Mimzel

    I can enjoy *some* themepark elements, and *some* sandbox elements. One thing that's always driven me away from sandbox games is the pvp aspect. A thing thats driven me away from most themeparks is the soloability they now have.

    From recent releases I get the impression that you cant have sanbox without pvp. Is this the case? I'd love for a game to have the epicness and vastness of EVE, and the co-operation focus of more traditional mmorpgs ("themeparks").

    No, sorry, its in the contract. It clearly states in paragraph two section 3, that ALL sand box games MUST be FFA full loot.  No exceptions. ^^ 

    One would think that someone would eventually get it right, but given the zealots that tend to be involved in sand box games, that may be a vain hope, at least for now. 

  • MarlonBMarlonB HoensbroekPosts: 520Member Uncommon

    I liked the way SWG handled this ... you could "declare" PvP. You could live a livetime there without PvP-ing, while others would do nothing else.

     

    Keep an eye on the repopulation, they are going the same route.

    The Repopulation - Scfi Fi Sandbox.

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,668Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Theocritus
         Its funny that the term "sandbox" is used at all because I dont remember any kids killing other kids in the sandbox when I was that age......

    Not sure what you did in a sandbox, but we built forts/castles and had wars with our superheroes and army men.

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • ThorbrandThorbrand West Palm Beach, FLPosts: 1,198Member

    It is very possible and is out there. Xsyon has a PvE only server coming where you just live in the world and the only threat is the creatures.

    Most PvP centric Sandbox games are not truly sandbox since they are missing the core meaning of sandbox also. A true sandbox you play how you want to play fully developing your character the way you want him to play. There isn't really any true sandbox games out that anyone is interested in because gamers don't really want a fulll sandbox game. Look at all the grief Xsyon gets but it is truly a sandbox game and has more features than we have seen in any sandbox game to date.

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,668Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by qwave

    If you do not have PvP in a sandbox, there is constant power and wealth entering the economy indefinitely.  Players do not fear consequences for their actions.  The game world becomes one massive 'city', where there are no real objectives, conflicts, or politics.

    I am the developer for an upcoming sandbox MMORPG, Topia Online, and I would love to hear a solution to the above problems.  My design team and I have struggled for a long time on how to possibly create a sandbox without PvP or Permadeath.  What will the players be doing all day, and what would stop things like inflation if nothing ever 'goes away'?

    Yet somehow ATITD, Puzzle Pirates, Free Realms and UO manage to pull it off. No one said anything about nothing ever going away, and there's more to PVP than just PVP combat.

      For "a ground-breaking approach to sandbox games" your team is certainly struggling with some pretty basic concepts.

     

     

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • CreepProphetCreepProphet LiedekerkePosts: 104Member
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by Theocritus
         Its funny that the term "sandbox" is used at all because I dont remember any kids killing other kids in the sandbox when I was that age......

    Not sure what you did in a sandbox, but we built forts/castles and had wars with our superheroes and army men.

    I support these posts. Yes both of them.

    I like the idea of a sandbox being free to choose whether you want to pvp or not. So if you have the one kid that likes to do nothing but build sandboxes, and his buddy wants to do nothing but have wars with the superheroes and army men, they can both exist in the same place.

    It just gives the kid building the sandcastle more to do when the superheroes nock it down.

    Analogy aside, having the option to pvp if you choose and the option not to pvp if it's not your thing.  The hard part is having a system that lets you do that. 

  • apocolusterapocoluster newport news, VAPosts: 1,321Member Uncommon
       Yes you can, Is everyone gonna like it..no.  Are those who do not going to be very vocal about there hatred of it...Yes they are.  

    No matter how cynical you become, its never enough to keep up - Lily Tomlin

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,668Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by CreepProphet
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by Theocritus
         Its funny that the term "sandbox" is used at all because I dont remember any kids killing other kids in the sandbox when I was that age......

    Not sure what you did in a sandbox, but we built forts/castles and had wars with our superheroes and army men.

    I support these posts. Yes both of them.

    I like the idea of a sandbox being free to choose whether you want to pvp or not. So if you have the one kid that likes to do nothing but build sandboxes, and his buddy wants to do nothing but have wars with the superheroes and army men, they can both exist in the same place.

    It just gives the kid building the sandcastle more to do when the superheroes nock it down.

    Analogy aside, having the option to pvp if you choose and the option not to pvp if it's not your thing.  The hard part is having a system that lets you do that. 

    I'm very partial to either tiered safety (with no area 100% safe) or competitive gameplay without direct combat. Many seem to find the former generally acceptable and the latter is widely accepted as marketplaces, shop ownership, townmanagement and other forms of competition seem to go over very well as the 'griefing' is both perceived as and accepoted as part of the political and competitive gameplay.

     

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • ReklawReklaw Am.Posts: 6,478Member Uncommon

    Grrrrr every time I see a topic like this it reminds me again of Star Wars Galaxies.

    Not sure why today's games have so much difficulty giving players the options like Covert/Overt/Neutral

    And I am sure that a FFA full loot sandbox MMORPG's would be so much larger in populations/subs if they gave players these options.

    So yes we can have a sandbox, co-op, MMORPG but with pvp as a option as SWG has shown it could.

  • CreepProphetCreepProphet LiedekerkePosts: 104Member
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by CreepProphet
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by Theocritus
         Its funny that the term "sandbox" is used at all because I dont remember any kids killing other kids in the sandbox when I was that age......

    Not sure what you did in a sandbox, but we built forts/castles and had wars with our superheroes and army men.

    I support these posts. Yes both of them.

    I like the idea of a sandbox being free to choose whether you want to pvp or not. So if you have the one kid that likes to do nothing but build sandboxes, and his buddy wants to do nothing but have wars with the superheroes and army men, they can both exist in the same place.

    It just gives the kid building the sandcastle more to do when the superheroes nock it down.

    Analogy aside, having the option to pvp if you choose and the option not to pvp if it's not your thing.  The hard part is having a system that lets you do that. 

    I'm very partial to either tiered safety (with no area 100% safe) or competitive gameplay without direct combat. Many seem to find the former generally acceptable and the latter is widely accepted as marketplaces, shop ownership, townmanagement and other forms of competition seem to go over very well as the 'griefing' is both perceived as and accepoted as part of the political and competitive gameplay.

     

    I almost entirely agree, I do like the idea of High Sec in EVE. Granted though even there you can technically be fired upon, it just makes a bad day for whoever does the firing.

    While I like the idea of 'civilization' type games that have no player combat, they sound fascinating.

    I admitedly prefer the SWG combat model that The Repopulation is trying to recreate. Where you can pvp if you want to, if you get out to where pvp happens. But if you're in places where pvp doesn't happen, you don't have to pvp. 

    To me that's more of a choice than saying "you get one or the other kid, now get off my lawn." *angry fist shaking included*

  • KiljaedenasKiljaedenas New Westminster, BCPosts: 468Member
    Originally posted by qwave

    If you do not have PvP in a sandbox, there is constant power and wealth entering the economy indefinitely.  Players do not fear consequences for their actions.  The game world becomes one massive 'city', where there are no real objectives, conflicts, or politics.

    I am the developer for an upcoming sandbox MMORPG, Topia Online, and I would love to hear a solution to the above problems.  My design team and I have struggled for a long time on how to possibly create a sandbox without PvP or Permadeath.  What will the players be doing all day, and what would stop things like inflation if nothing ever 'goes away'?

    If you think you have the answer to make a non-PvP sandbox world a lasting and fun experience, please tell me!

    Therein lies the key problem. There must be balance. Creation needs destruction, life needs death, otherwise one of them spirals out of control and you get a crappy world. So for you to have a balance without PvP you are going to need a much harsher PvE environment.

    Someway, somehow, the "stuff" that players create MUST get destroyed eventually, otherwise the market and prices snowball into a mess. I think you're going to have to take several of the ideas in Eve Online and adapt them to your purposes (though for gods sake get CCP's permission first!)

    1) Fully player run economy. Maybe at first have NPC merchants that will accept stuff sold to them so that the initial player base can build up some cash, but once it gets to a certain point ELIMINATE THE NPC MERCHANTS THAT CAN BUY STUFF FROM PLAYERS!!! If the only customers for industrial players are other players, if the indy spams out a bunch of lower grade stuff it won't sell because no one will want to buy it, so he will have just wasted his time. Ideally, the knowledge that this will happen will prevent him from building a bunch of useless crap which will hopefully control how much input into the market there will be. The only things NPC merchants should do is sell to players the basic tools they would need to function in the world (think of Eve's skillbooks and blueprint originals).

    2) All new players (or newly killed players) get at least a bare-bones set of tools that they would need if they have nothing else available to them (i.e, akin to Eve's rookie ships). That way, even if they've lost every last dime they have they could still start mining and/or fighting for resources.

    3) Lack of grind skills to train skills. Most MMOs require you to train skills such as crafting by grinding out tons of low level stuff to gain "experience" in that crafting skill, then grind out higher grade stuff, on and on as you go. That leads to a lot of crap getting created and glutting the market. If you implement point 1 you must not have that creation grind for crafting. Players need some way of training their skills that does not result in a bunch of "stuff" getting created at the same time. Maybe make some kind of training area and have a minigame there which gives them skillpoints in that crafting skill, but doesn't make any items.

    4) Equipment destruction. Whether by PvE or PvP, this must happen. It's simple fact. It might be harsh, but without it the market will snowball out of control. You will have to be careful on what you mean by "permadeath". Don't utterly cripple the player's character via drastic skillpoint or xp loss, but rather focus on their equipment going poof, unless the player can get back to it in time (although some of it must get destroyed no matter what). To also avoid having "meta-PvP" by having players lure a bunch of NPCs over to a particular player and killing him so that the luring players can loot his corpse, you should have a player's equipment hard-locked to their character so that they cannot be looted, except perhaps for ammo. If your MMO is a futuristic one, maybe have it so that their armor and weapons are genetically hardwired to them, cannot be used by anyone else and will self destruct within 30 minutes of death to prevent the technology getting into the enemy NPCs hands.

     

    Those are the best ideas I can think of. You have set a very difficult goal for yourself, I must say. Good luck with it.

    Where's the any key?

  • DrevarDrevar College Station, TXPosts: 157Member Uncommon

    What galls me about sandbox developers is that the notion of PvP *ALWAYS* means combat.  There could be all kinds of PvP content that doesn't involve WTFBBQPWNing someone.  Religion or Civil systems that expand influence based on building and upgrading structures, where only the largest/most advanced "controls" a region.  Build the largest temple and keep the "faith points" at the highest level and your faction or guild or whatever receives the bonus. 

    Want to make a region free-for-all anarchy, then build a shrine to the god of chaos and keep whatever point system is in place above all the others and the region "falls" into anararchy.  If you want a carebear crafter paradise then build and upkeep structures that give those protections and bonuses, etc. etc.

    Even in games where the primary form of PvP is fighting, there can still be content that non-PvPers can take part in and support their guild/faction/whatever.  Weapon crafters could make and sacrifice weapons to the god of war and give attack/damage/armor bonuses to their fighters.

    Instead of these sorts of systems, though, what we usually get is inordinate amounts of time spent on PvP balancing when someone gets butthurt because they got rolled by Plat3dud3 and his BS OP halberd or something.

    “If MMORPG players were around when God said, "Let their be light" they'd have called the light gay, and plunged the universe back into darkness by squatting their nutsacks over it.”
    -Luke McKinney, The 7 Biggest Dick Moves in the History of Online Gaming

    "In the end, SWG may have been more potential and promise than fulfilled expectation. But I’d rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
    -Raph Koster

  • RydesonRydeson Canton, OHPosts: 3,858Member Uncommon
         Yes.. you can have a sandbox style game without PvP..  I perfer it that way as well..  PvP should be done on PvP servers alone and PvE should be seperate, this way you don't end up with all the drama of balance issues..
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