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What Commonly Accepted MMO Concepts Bug You?

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  • JemcrystalJemcrystal Champaign, ILPosts: 1,548Member Uncommon
    bound items


  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    Ice I disagree with the vampires.

    Yeah Im sick of moody emo vampires.
    But some stake land style mindless killing machine or 30 days of night style human hating Nazi vampires would be cool.

    E.g. proper evil bastard vampires not a bunch of tragically misunderstood wimps.
  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    I'm pleased to see how much instancing has popped up in this thread, glad to see I'm not the only one who Hates it.

    Any devs out there, might be interesting to make a zero instancing game and market the lack of instancing heavily.
  • PurutzilPurutzil East Stroudsburg, PAPosts: 2,923Member Uncommon

    That making everything easy and without work makes a game fun. 

     

    It doesn't, it means anything you 'earn' feels that much more lack luster and leaves you craving for more. I remember when it was so exciting to progress and beat a dungeon or raid you have been working on for some time. Now it doesn't feel like any big accomplishment, specially when it will be trivialized quickly and just skipped over in a few weeks. Leveling feels like a grind as hitting the max level just isn't very rewarding unless your doing it 'first'. It use to be just about reaching some goal, not having to be the first to make it feel rewarding.

  • RimmersmanRimmersman MonacoPosts: 885Member
    Originally posted by dreamsofwar

    Auction houses. I'd much rather see Western MMO's adopt a concept that many Asian MMO's have used, player stalls. It adds to the social aspect of the game, allows for bartering, and it just adds more life and atmosphere to cities, and other parts of the world. Imagine seeing a few player stalls outside of raid entrances, its little things like that I think would make games more immersive.

     

    Ermm we have had a western MMO with stalls, SOE was doing it 12 years ago with EQ with the Nexus, it was a bit laggy though . But yeah I agree with you, we seem to going backwards compared to games like Age of Wushu's.

    image
  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    Local auction houses like eve is the best way to do economy
  • sanshi44sanshi44 BrisbanePosts: 1,088Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by botrytis
    Originally posted by loulaki

    well to add which bothers me

     

    1) lack of open worlds and in the same place i would add the dungeons, why they have to be closed and instanced ?

    Big world need big servers and lots of memory. We can't even model a bacterial cell (it takes months on some of the new supoercomputer) and you want it all open? Realistically this will not happen for a long time. Instanced makes it easier to control and you have all the bosses and drops to your group. In an open world the boss might only appear once a day or so. 

    Games before WoW ran fine without instances, Games like darkfall dont have instances at all i beleive vanguard is also like this. The reason why instances are so commonly found in games is because it is EASYIER for the devs. Devs nowadays do aslittle work as they can to try and make a profit which is why there somany copy pace WoW games on the market. WoW is probaly one of the easier MMO to make and run, so thats what the Devs have been doing from other companies and with it they try to cut the cost on certain things such as game size and so on so its cheaper to produce. A couple of developers acualy try and make somthing different and put the effort into a game and that i applaud them for.
  • sanshi44sanshi44 BrisbanePosts: 1,088Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Rimmersman
    Originally posted by dreamsofwar
    Auction houses. I'd much rather see Western MMO's adopt a concept that many Asian MMO's have used, player stalls. It adds to the social aspect of the game, allows for bartering, and it just adds more life and atmosphere to cities, and other parts of the world. Imagine seeing a few player stalls outside of raid entrances, its little things like that I think would make games more immersive.

     

    Ermm we have had a western MMO with stalls, SOE was doing it 12 years ago with EQ with the Nexus, it was a bit laggy though . But yeah I agree with you, we seem to going backwards compared to games like Age of Wushu's.

    I agree we are going backwards on the MMO's genre it seems Dev wanna be lazy and do the smallest amount of work that turns a profit without putting much effort or thought into the game there making heance all the WoW clones (Investors arnt helping either).

  • botrytisbotrytis In Flux, MIPosts: 2,567Member
    Originally posted by sanshi44
    Originally posted by botrytis
    Originally posted by loulaki

    well to add which bothers me

     

    1) lack of open worlds and in the same place i would add the dungeons, why they have to be closed and instanced ?

    Big world need big servers and lots of memory. We can't even model a bacterial cell (it takes months on some of the new supoercomputer) and you want it all open? Realistically this will not happen for a long time. Instanced makes it easier to control and you have all the bosses and drops to your group. In an open world the boss might only appear once a day or so. 

    Games before WoW ran fine without instances, Games like darkfall dont have instances at all i beleive vanguard is also like this. The reason why instances are so commonly found in games is because it is EASYIER for the devs. Devs nowadays do aslittle work as they can to try and make a profit which is why there somany copy pace WoW games on the market. WoW is probaly one of the easier MMO to make and run, so thats what the Devs have been doing from other companies and with it they try to cut the cost on certain things such as game size and so on so its cheaper to produce. A couple of developers acualy try and make somthing different and put the effort into a game and that i applaud them for.

    They had no physics engines, they were isometric (no 3D graphics), they were limited in what you can do. If you want  a blank canvas - world exploration 3D graphics, etc., then you need more horsepower and this is what I was talking about. We don't want to back to UO type graphics - especailly from a bigger company.

     

    I think it is very disingenuous to you to say that developers are slackers - they are not but the reality is they have to make decisions to get product out the door. Plain and simple. Your stating they do as little as possible points out you have no clue as to how much work goes into a game.

    image

    "In 50 years, when I talk to my grandchildren about these days, I'll make sure to mention what an accomplished MMO player I was. They are going to be so proud ..."
    by Naqaj - 7/17/2013 MMORPG.com forum

  • IcewhiteIcewhite Elmhurst, ILPosts: 6,403Member
    Originally posted by sanshi44
    Games before WoW ran fine without instances, Games like darkfall dont have instances at all i beleive vanguard is also like this. The reason why instances are so commonly found in games is because it is EASYIER for the devs. Devs nowadays do aslittle work as they can to try and make a profit which is why there somany copy pace WoW games on the market. WoW is probaly one of the easier MMO to make and run, so thats what the Devs have been doing from other companies and with it they try to cut the cost on certain things such as game size and so on so its cheaper to produce. A couple of developers acualy try and make somthing different and put the effort into a game and that i applaud them for.

    You know, it would be easier to take you a little more seriously if you didn't fall back on the old "omg devs r la-zy!" we've been hearing ever day since 1979.

    If you don't have any actual data, "I don't like instances" is sufficient to carry the op.  Inventing a lot of properties for employees of EvilCorp isn't really necessary.

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  • sanshi44sanshi44 BrisbanePosts: 1,088Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by botrytis
    Originally posted by sanshi44
    Originally posted by botrytis
    Originally posted by loulaki

    well to add which bothers me

     

    1) lack of open worlds and in the same place i would add the dungeons, why they have to be closed and instanced ?

    Big world need big servers and lots of memory. We can't even model a bacterial cell (it takes months on some of the new supoercomputer) and you want it all open? Realistically this will not happen for a long time. Instanced makes it easier to control and you have all the bosses and drops to your group. In an open world the boss might only appear once a day or so. 

    Games before WoW ran fine without instances, Games like darkfall dont have instances at all i beleive vanguard is also like this. The reason why instances are so commonly found in games is because it is EASYIER for the devs. Devs nowadays do aslittle work as they can to try and make a profit which is why there somany copy pace WoW games on the market. WoW is probaly one of the easier MMO to make and run, so thats what the Devs have been doing from other companies and with it they try to cut the cost on certain things such as game size and so on so its cheaper to produce. A couple of developers acualy try and make somthing different and put the effort into a game and that i applaud them for.

    They had no physics engines, they were isometric (no 3D graphics), they were limited in what you can do. If youo want  a blank canvas - world exploration 3D graphics, etc., then you need more horsepower and this is what I was talking about. We don't want to back to UO type graphics - especailly from a bigger company..

    Ok then let me bring forth to you a game called darkfall its a large world with no instances, another one planet side 2 another large world with no instances (PS2 also has one of the best physic engine and lighting ive seen in a game) it may not have NPC in there but it does have a heck of alot more places on the screen than MMORPG nowadays and i experience no lag at all.

  • IcewhiteIcewhite Elmhurst, ILPosts: 6,403Member
    Originally posted by sanshi44

    Ok then let me bring forth to you a game called darkfall its a large world with no instances..

    ...and one of the smallest player populations.

    Model density has a great deal to do with rendering load.  Ask Blizzard (and Lagforge).

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  • DMKanoDMKano Gamercentral, AKPosts: 8,496Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by timtrack

    Things i don't like about cars:

    • Wheels
    • Engine
    • Doors
    • Painting
    • Windows
    • Seats
    • Air Conditioning
    • Dashboard
    • Gas-tank
    • Exhaust pipe
    • Seat-belts
    • Ability do drive and turn
    I love cars tho.

    Sums up every game forum on the planet. 

    And I agree :)

    you could custom make a game for each individual poster according to what they say they like and dislike, and chances are many  would still say it sucks.

    It's easy to be a game dev and make a MMORPG, isn't it?

     

  • botrytisbotrytis In Flux, MIPosts: 2,567Member
    Originally posted by sanshi44
    Originally posted by botrytis
    Originally posted by sanshi44
    Originally posted by botrytis
    Originally posted by loulaki

    well to add which bothers me

     

    1) lack of open worlds and in the same place i would add the dungeons, why they have to be closed and instanced ?

    Big world need big servers and lots of memory. We can't even model a bacterial cell (it takes months on some of the new supoercomputer) and you want it all open? Realistically this will not happen for a long time. Instanced makes it easier to control and you have all the bosses and drops to your group. In an open world the boss might only appear once a day or so. 

    Games before WoW ran fine without instances, Games like darkfall dont have instances at all i beleive vanguard is also like this. The reason why instances are so commonly found in games is because it is EASYIER for the devs. Devs nowadays do aslittle work as they can to try and make a profit which is why there somany copy pace WoW games on the market. WoW is probaly one of the easier MMO to make and run, so thats what the Devs have been doing from other companies and with it they try to cut the cost on certain things such as game size and so on so its cheaper to produce. A couple of developers acualy try and make somthing different and put the effort into a game and that i applaud them for.

    They had no physics engines, they were isometric (no 3D graphics), they were limited in what you can do. If youo want  a blank canvas - world exploration 3D graphics, etc., then you need more horsepower and this is what I was talking about. We don't want to back to UO type graphics - especailly from a bigger company..

    Ok then let me bring forth to you a game called darkfall its a large world with no instances, another one planet side 2 another large world with no instances (PS2 also has one of the best physic engine and lighting ive seen in a game) it may not have NPC in there but it does have a heck of alot more places on the screen than MMORPG nowadays and i experience no lag at all.

    I have played it - the graphics were PITA - the game was laggy as all get out - had more bugs than D3 when it came out - very small population. Not a game on my radar.

    image

    "In 50 years, when I talk to my grandchildren about these days, I'll make sure to mention what an accomplished MMO player I was. They are going to be so proud ..."
    by Naqaj - 7/17/2013 MMORPG.com forum

  • sanshi44sanshi44 BrisbanePosts: 1,088Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Icewhite
    Originally posted by sanshi44
    Games before WoW ran fine without instances, Games like darkfall dont have instances at all i beleive vanguard is also like this. The reason why instances are so commonly found in games is because it is EASYIER for the devs. Devs nowadays do aslittle work as they can to try and make a profit which is why there somany copy pace WoW games on the market. WoW is probaly one of the easier MMO to make and run, so thats what the Devs have been doing from other companies and with it they try to cut the cost on certain things such as game size and so on so its cheaper to produce. A couple of developers acualy try and make somthing different and put the effort into a game and that i applaud them for.

    You know, it would be easier to take you a little more seriously if you didn't fall back on the old "omg devs r la-zy!" we've been hearing ever day since 1979.

    If you don't have any actual data, "I don't like instances" is sufficient to carry the op.  Inventing a lot of properties for employees of EvilCorp isn't really necessary.

    Zones/area's

    Everquest zones on release around 90

    Wow zones on release about 60

    Rift zones on release like 16

    zones were around the same sioze as each other in each game

    Factions/Alignment

    Everquest faction (alighnment system) was huge each city had atleast 5 different factions in (for example Qeynos had corrupted guard, non corrupted guards, all class factions, black burrow and more than i cant remember off the top of my head that u can increase or decrease inside North/.South qeynos just one if the 12 cities or so in that game. there was probaly atleast 200+ different factions you could be allied with or Kill on sight with on release

    WoW had about about 20 or so on release

    Rift had like 5

    Number of starter Cities

    Everquest around 12

    WoW - 6

    Rift - 2

    Races

    Everquest -12

    WoW 8

    Rift -6 (i beleive)

    Classes

    Everquest - 13

    WoW - around 8ish

    Rift - had 4 classes with like 8 rolls in each classes that u could use 3 of any of those rolls at a time to build a class. Rift did score higher on the number of classes cause they put alot of work in trying to make this what different them from the game they were cloning would of been nice if they put work on the other part of the game aswell.

     

    This will do for now as you can see the been less effort put into games over the years, its late so im off to bed.

     

     

  • sanshi44sanshi44 BrisbanePosts: 1,088Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by botrytis
    Originally posted by sanshi44
    Originally posted by botrytis
    Originally posted by sanshi44
    Originally posted by botrytis
    Originally posted by loulaki

    well to add which bothers me

     

    1) lack of open worlds and in the same place i would add the dungeons, why they have to be closed and instanced ?

    Big world need big servers and lots of memory. We can't even model a bacterial cell (it takes months on some of the new supoercomputer) and you want it all open? Realistically this will not happen for a long time. Instanced makes it easier to control and you have all the bosses and drops to your group. In an open world the boss might only appear once a day or so. 

    Games before WoW ran fine without instances, Games like darkfall dont have instances at all i beleive vanguard is also like this. The reason why instances are so commonly found in games is because it is EASYIER for the devs. Devs nowadays do aslittle work as they can to try and make a profit which is why there somany copy pace WoW games on the market. WoW is probaly one of the easier MMO to make and run, so thats what the Devs have been doing from other companies and with it they try to cut the cost on certain things such as game size and so on so its cheaper to produce. A couple of developers acualy try and make somthing different and put the effort into a game and that i applaud them for.

    They had no physics engines, they were isometric (no 3D graphics), they were limited in what you can do. If youo want  a blank canvas - world exploration 3D graphics, etc., then you need more horsepower and this is what I was talking about. We don't want to back to UO type graphics - especailly from a bigger company..

    Ok then let me bring forth to you a game called darkfall its a large world with no instances, another one planet side 2 another large world with no instances (PS2 also has one of the best physic engine and lighting ive seen in a game) it may not have NPC in there but it does have a heck of alot more places on the screen than MMORPG nowadays and i experience no lag at all.

    I have played it - the graphics were PITA - the game was laggy as all get out - had more bugs than D3 when it came out - very small population. Not a game on my radar.

    Graphic would of been dulled down a little for PS2 since its and FPS and FPS counts alot compared to a MMORPG, and i have no lag at all playing it even in the 100v100v100 or so fights on max settings. guess it doesnt agree with somthing in your computer apparently Radeon grpahic card dont perform as good as Nviidea since the phyx system was disgigned my Nvidea that there using in the lightforge engine so that may be causing ur lag.

  • IcewhiteIcewhite Elmhurst, ILPosts: 6,403Member
    Originally posted by sanshi44

    This will do for now as you can see the been less effort put into games over the years, its late so im off to bed.

    But you failed to establish a correlational link between "number of instances" and "laziness". Without first establishing a link, number of instances is just a rote list...

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  • steelheartxsteelheartx Biloxi, MSPosts: 432Member Uncommon

    - Themepark questing

    - Lack of any death penalty at all

    - Maybe the fact that most MMOs seldom keep a player's attention for more than 3 months :(

     

    Looking for a family that you can game with for life? Check out Grievance at https://www.grievancegaming.org !

  • corpusccorpusc Chattanooga, TNPosts: 1,330Member
    that MMOs NEED avatar/char progression.   ignoring your real life progression.

    The End
    ---------------------------
    i don't expect to like Darkfall, altho i may like it MORE than other MMOs. i know it is gonna have a very frustrating level of grind to it, even if its significantly less than most. waiting for a pure FAST action virtual world. dice rolling & character levels (even "skills") IN COMBAT should have never carried over from pencil & paper to a computer that can reasonably model 3D spaces and objects

  • corpusccorpusc Chattanooga, TNPosts: 1,330Member

    that MMOs need pre-made stories

    that MMOs need pre-made factions that a player is forced to choose from

    The End
    ---------------------------
    i don't expect to like Darkfall, altho i may like it MORE than other MMOs. i know it is gonna have a very frustrating level of grind to it, even if its significantly less than most. waiting for a pure FAST action virtual world. dice rolling & character levels (even "skills") IN COMBAT should have never carried over from pencil & paper to a computer that can reasonably model 3D spaces and objects

  • Abuz0rAbuz0r Lexington, KYPosts: 354Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by phantomghost

    Quests in general.  I should say WoW Quests in general.

     

    Oh you created a character... pick your reward.

    Wow, you picked your first reward, choose another reward.

    You took your first step, pick a reward. 

    You equipped your reward, choose a reward.

    You leveled from doing nothing, choose your reward.

    You opened your inventory, choose a reward.

    You opened another menu by pressing a button, take a reward.

    You leveled again, take a reward.

    You typed a message in chat, have a reward.

    You spoke to a NPC, heres a reward.

    You took your first quest, have a reward.

    You spoke to the person standing next to the person who have you the quest, choose a reward.

    lol  You made me laugh, have a reward.

  • dave6660dave6660 New York, NYPosts: 2,543Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by timtrack

    Things i don't like about cars:

    • Wheels
    • Engine
    • Doors
    • Painting
    • Windows
    • Seats
    • Air Conditioning
    • Dashboard
    • Gas-tank
    • Exhaust pipe
    • Seat-belts
    • Ability do drive and turn
    I love cars tho.

    Nice.

    It does make you wonder sometimes what genre people think they're playing.

    “There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.”
    -- Herman Melville

  • SovrathSovrath Boston Area, MAPosts: 18,452Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by azzamasin
    Originally posted by dreamsofwar
    Auction houses. I'd much rather see Western MMO's adopt a concept that many Asian MMO's have used, player stalls. It adds to the social aspect of the game, allows for bartering, and it just adds more life and atmosphere to cities, and other parts of the world. Imagine seeing a few player stalls outside of raid entrances, its little things like that I think would make games more immersive.

    Dear god NO.

     

    Nothing is as grotesque an eyesore then having thousands of off-line people standing around anywhere they please setting up a shop.

     

    Now I could buy this argument if it was at a players house but no, we do not need anything more to get people to clog up cities.

    This is a matter of taste. I will take player shops over auction house (which really isn't an actual auction house) any day. For some reason people hate the idea of having players all over selling their wares when in reality that's what a city is (among other things).

    The other thing is that the player shops put the power into the sellers hands. You pass buy, see a collection of mats fora certain price. Do you continue to look to see if anyone else has it or do you just accept the price the  player is offering. Or do you contact the player and see if you can talk him down. Meanwhile others might be looking for the same stuff.

    In any case "to each his own" but it's my preferred system.

  • corpusccorpusc Chattanooga, TNPosts: 1,330Member

    forcing everyone who plays a particular game into PVP.

    one of the most idiotic design choices ever.

     

     

    (%90-%95 of my gaming time since 1996 has been PVP, so don't get it twisted)

    The End
    ---------------------------
    i don't expect to like Darkfall, altho i may like it MORE than other MMOs. i know it is gonna have a very frustrating level of grind to it, even if its significantly less than most. waiting for a pure FAST action virtual world. dice rolling & character levels (even "skills") IN COMBAT should have never carried over from pencil & paper to a computer that can reasonably model 3D spaces and objects

  • IcewhiteIcewhite Elmhurst, ILPosts: 6,403Member
    Originally posted by dave6660

    It does make you wonder sometimes what genre people think they're playing.


    "I'm so miserable, I hate this all so much...oooh, 5 silver!"

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

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