Endgame content such as the need to do raids over and over again to get endgame gear. I would have thought that something more creative and fun would have been though of by now. It's one of the main reasons I usually quit before games before I reach endgame. Thankfully I have at least one game that isn't like this that I'm playing now.
Originally posted by loulaki 3) fake hero dimensions, if i want to become a hero for NPCs i go play a single play game, its good to have personal quests but not the style you save the world as everyone else around you ...
In GW2, you are NOT an uber hero. In fact you can choose to be from common folk or even an orphan (the human PS).
In GW2, you ARE "The Hero." Everything you do leads to the big showdown between you and Zhaitan.
In the Human area, as soon as you are finished with the intro, you are forever known as "The Hero of Shaemor."
As you go through the game, you become the "go-to guy" in every order (The Durmand Priory, The Order of Whispers, and the Vigil).
What loulaki was addressing is that the "stories" MMOs now employ make every player the savior of the universe.
Player1: "YAY! I Saved the world!" Player2: "Oh really? Cool! I did that last week. Good job!"
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
2) Invisible walls, Nothing worse than playing a game that leads you on a direct path everywhere. For many MMo gamers exploration is a big part of the game.
3) Kill number of for your next kill number of quests.
2. Removal of buff dependencies and buff classes in the name of balance and "fairness"
3. The removal of the pure crowd controller that could lock down mobs for longer periods in the name of balance
4. Instances
5. The insane focus on balance when it comes to PvE. Back in the day some classes were OP, some were mediocre and some sucked. Now everybody has to be exactly the same. You deal poison damage, I deal frost, that guy overthere deals fire damage. We all do the same damage but in a slightly different way
6. Little to no death penalty.
I miss dependencies on buffs and classes, I miss not having a horse, turtle or dragon to ride on and I miss the wast differences between classes and their "jobs"
'On-rails' feeling of running from zone to zone. Hell, distinct zones in general.
Meaningless city hubs / crappy excuses for 'cities'. Where do all the people live?
Weak crafting systems / in game economies.
Edit to add: the damn WoW clone cartoony atmosphere. I hate it. Stylization does have its place.. wakfu and dofus for instance. They're 'cute' on the surface. But there is a lack of gritty, realistic, dark fantasy settings imo.
Lol, so many awesome posts... I agree bag slots and inventory is a huge disappointment, why am I limited to a number of slots regardless of if the item is a feather or an elephant egg? Shouldn't mass mean I can store more tiny items and less bigger ones? Why do I have to be penalized with lacking inventory slots? Especially on a game which has a subscription and doesn't sell me bigger backpacks, and limits the size of tailor made backpacks as well.
Why can't I just expand my bank more? Should be a great way to drain money out of the in-game economy along with mounts, right? What I'd give for inventory space...
Lack of expansion would also go with void storage/cosmetic wardrobe and other features, it all should be expanded!! It is time to let go of the past and move on with a brighter future of no more inventory constraints!! Oh, I'd love to head over to my mammoth and pack my items in some saddlebags for extra room on my personal avatar's inventory!!
There is no reason crafting is always weak and raiding is key, lack of socialization and community in mmos with groups being dead silent is a shame, apparently without camping and long 8-10 hr groups in Evequest 1 you no longer speak to people anymore. Crafters need to improve raiders equipment, this requires the no trade slot and would work like enchanting already does on WoW.
However, bind on pickup gear grinding still sucks, and most gear maybe even raid gear should be bind on account or even openly tradable... Everquest 2 already has raid gear as bind on account, which is sweet. However, below raid gear should mostly be tradable to anyone for the market economy, no trade/bind on pickup and heirloom mean that it usually is dis-enchanted/transmuted/salvaged or sold to an npc vendor...
Must we always have the same issues plaguing the industry that clones sell , and all unique games falter and fade away?
Why do you have to dismount and remount everytime you fight or gather a harvest node? It's an annoyance, and combat on mounts would be so much fun... 3-Dimensiional combat like Aion, flying mounts should do this, or at the very least not require you to dismount...
Thanks Everquest for not forcing constant wasting of time on dismounting!!
Rewards for participation. Hence, a generation of players reluctant to do anything that is not directly rewarded.
And gonna swipe Patrick Rothfuss' list, just because it's so good:
1. Prophecy. I don’t ever want to read another novel about “the chosen one.”
2. The helpless damsel. I’ve known a fair number of damsels in my day. The vast majority of them don’t need saving.
3. Elves with bows who live in trees. Dwarves with axes who live in caves. It was fine when Tolkien did it, but that was 60 years ago. It’s time for us to move on.
4. Brooding vampires. Any sort of vampire should probably be avoided at this point. The genre is kinda overrun.
5. Dragons. "In the game, you fight a dragon. And you know what? It was great. I was running around, getting burned by fire, worried I was going to die. It was exciting, dramatic. Then, a little while later, you fight another dragon. Then another. And another. And eventually, I’m just irritated by them. It was boring. You should never be bored fighting a dragon. When that happens, someone has really dropped the ball in terms of storytelling."
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Female characters wearing a pasty and a leather thong that have the same AC and can take as much damage as a male character wearing full plate. Also games that have completely different looks for each sex of the same armor type (I'm looking at you WoW). A male puts on Total Coverage Chestpiece of Bulkiness and it looks like a chestpiece but you hand it to a female and it magically turns into Strip Club Time!
INB4 Sex Sells. Sex is not a be all end all folks. Lets drop our collective cocks and try logic once in a while shall we?
Bartoni's Law definition: As an Internet discussion grows volatile, the probability of a comparison involving Donald Trump approaches 1.
-WoW style questing (short quests with big ! or ? over quest giver)
- INSTANCES my biggest thing gripe of modern day MMOs MMORPG are spose to bring the comunity together while do we teasr it appart with instances that make the game feel like a lobby co up game. what makes thing worst is that u must do these to get the best gear.
- Getting new gear every 5 minutes to replace the piece you just got from the previous quest, gear is just to abundant in todays games you dont hold onto a piece for more then a day (or a single level) without it getting replaced espiecly when leveling
Yeah Im sick of moody emo vampires. But some stake land style mindless killing machine or 30 days of night style human hating Nazi vampires would be cool.
E.g. proper evil bastard vampires not a bunch of tragically misunderstood wimps.
That making everything easy and without work makes a game fun.
It doesn't, it means anything you 'earn' feels that much more lack luster and leaves you craving for more. I remember when it was so exciting to progress and beat a dungeon or raid you have been working on for some time. Now it doesn't feel like any big accomplishment, specially when it will be trivialized quickly and just skipped over in a few weeks. Leveling feels like a grind as hitting the max level just isn't very rewarding unless your doing it 'first'. It use to be just about reaching some goal, not having to be the first to make it feel rewarding.
Auction houses. I'd much rather see Western MMO's adopt a concept that many Asian MMO's have used, player stalls. It adds to the social aspect of the game, allows for bartering, and it just adds more life and atmosphere to cities, and other parts of the world. Imagine seeing a few player stalls outside of raid entrances, its little things like that I think would make games more immersive.
Ermm we have had a western MMO with stalls, SOE was doing it 12 years ago with EQ with the Nexus, it was a bit laggy though . But yeah I agree with you, we seem to going backwards compared to games like Age of Wushu's.
Comments
Smile
ANYTHING that get much away from realistic interactions between players or between players and the world.
In the Human area, as soon as you are finished with the intro, you are forever known as "The Hero of Shaemor."
As you go through the game, you become the "go-to guy" in every order (The Durmand Priory, The Order of Whispers, and the Vigil).
What loulaki was addressing is that the "stories" MMOs now employ make every player the savior of the universe.
Player1: "YAY! I Saved the world!"
Player2: "Oh really? Cool! I did that last week. Good job!"
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
1) Tab Target Combat, I cant stand it.
2) Invisible walls, Nothing worse than playing a game that leads you on a direct path everywhere. For many MMo gamers exploration is a big part of the game.
3) Kill number of for your next kill number of quests.
1. Mounts replacing travel buffs
2. Removal of buff dependencies and buff classes in the name of balance and "fairness"
3. The removal of the pure crowd controller that could lock down mobs for longer periods in the name of balance
4. Instances
5. The insane focus on balance when it comes to PvE. Back in the day some classes were OP, some were mediocre and some sucked. Now everybody has to be exactly the same. You deal poison damage, I deal frost, that guy overthere deals fire damage. We all do the same damage but in a slightly different way
6. Little to no death penalty.
I miss dependencies on buffs and classes, I miss not having a horse, turtle or dragon to ride on and I miss the wast differences between classes and their "jobs"
Fully agree with this!!!
Where's the any key?
Classes and levels
Instancing
Lack of death penalty
Lack of incentive to group
'On-rails' feeling of running from zone to zone. Hell, distinct zones in general.
Meaningless city hubs / crappy excuses for 'cities'. Where do all the people live?
Weak crafting systems / in game economies.
Edit to add: the damn WoW clone cartoony atmosphere. I hate it. Stylization does have its place.. wakfu and dofus for instance. They're 'cute' on the surface. But there is a lack of gritty, realistic, dark fantasy settings imo.
BoP items
canceled items
Been bangn' since pong
I'm sure someone has already mentioned this...
-Taunting and tanking.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
Lol, so many awesome posts... I agree bag slots and inventory is a huge disappointment, why am I limited to a number of slots regardless of if the item is a feather or an elephant egg? Shouldn't mass mean I can store more tiny items and less bigger ones? Why do I have to be penalized with lacking inventory slots? Especially on a game which has a subscription and doesn't sell me bigger backpacks, and limits the size of tailor made backpacks as well.
Why can't I just expand my bank more? Should be a great way to drain money out of the in-game economy along with mounts, right? What I'd give for inventory space...
Lack of expansion would also go with void storage/cosmetic wardrobe and other features, it all should be expanded!! It is time to let go of the past and move on with a brighter future of no more inventory constraints!! Oh, I'd love to head over to my mammoth and pack my items in some saddlebags for extra room on my personal avatar's inventory!!
There is no reason crafting is always weak and raiding is key, lack of socialization and community in mmos with groups being dead silent is a shame, apparently without camping and long 8-10 hr groups in Evequest 1 you no longer speak to people anymore. Crafters need to improve raiders equipment, this requires the no trade slot and would work like enchanting already does on WoW.
However, bind on pickup gear grinding still sucks, and most gear maybe even raid gear should be bind on account or even openly tradable... Everquest 2 already has raid gear as bind on account, which is sweet. However, below raid gear should mostly be tradable to anyone for the market economy, no trade/bind on pickup and heirloom mean that it usually is dis-enchanted/transmuted/salvaged or sold to an npc vendor...
Must we always have the same issues plaguing the industry that clones sell , and all unique games falter and fade away?
Why do you have to dismount and remount everytime you fight or gather a harvest node? It's an annoyance, and combat on mounts would be so much fun... 3-Dimensiional combat like Aion, flying mounts should do this, or at the very least not require you to dismount...
Thanks Everquest for not forcing constant wasting of time on dismounting!!
I only read the first page but...
this thread is full of awesome. Most MMOs today (as in all) suck DEEZ NUTZ so bad it is not even funny.
One COMMERCIAL fantasy MMO that didn't suck DEEZ NUTZ could get $250.00 a year from me easy. Too bad they don't wasn my cash lol.
I play Lord of Ultima. One of the few true non-carebear games out there, even if it is browser based.
I'll quickly add my drunk list of things game developers with IQs of peanuts can't figure out:
1) BoP. Ya, it is retarded.
2) Carebear death penalties.
3) Auction houses that resemble Ebay more than a medieval economy.
4) Themepark zones (mentioned 20 times already: level 1-5 here, 6-10 here, etc. etc.)
5) Instances (Battlegrounds)
6) Instances (Raids)
7) Instances (Zones, perhaps the worst immersion killer ever)
8) Bunnies dropping platemail (inspired by previous poster)
9) Quest givers asking you to kill the slutty wolves beside them
10) Repeatable quests (daily or otherwise, unless truly random, which is well, never)
11) Game altering nerfs (I should not be stronger 1 month in than 6 months later...listening Funcom? lol)
11) Pay to win (And this is coming from a F2P whale, relatively speaking)
12) EZ BREEZY PvE (Hi Tera, how are you? I should die before level 20 at least once...since I'm not very good at games)
13) Monty Haul (This isn't Torchlight every monster shouldn't drop 55 things)
14) Magical punctuation (I'll run to the question mark if you offer it to me, but don't expect me to respect the game after that)
God, I could go on for hours.
Rewards for participation. Hence, a generation of players reluctant to do anything that is not directly rewarded.
And gonna swipe Patrick Rothfuss' list, just because it's so good:
1. Prophecy. I don’t ever want to read another novel about “the chosen one.”
2. The helpless damsel. I’ve known a fair number of damsels in my day. The vast majority of them don’t need saving.
3. Elves with bows who live in trees. Dwarves with axes who live in caves. It was fine when Tolkien did it, but that was 60 years ago. It’s time for us to move on.
4. Brooding vampires. Any sort of vampire should probably be avoided at this point. The genre is kinda overrun.
5. Dragons. "In the game, you fight a dragon. And you know what? It was great. I was running around, getting burned by fire, worried I was going to die. It was exciting, dramatic. Then, a little while later, you fight another dragon. Then another. And another. And eventually, I’m just irritated by them. It was boring. You should never be bored fighting a dragon. When that happens, someone has really dropped the ball in terms of storytelling."
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Female characters wearing a pasty and a leather thong that have the same AC and can take as much damage as a male character wearing full plate. Also games that have completely different looks for each sex of the same armor type (I'm looking at you WoW). A male puts on Total Coverage Chestpiece of Bulkiness and it looks like a chestpiece but you hand it to a female and it magically turns into Strip Club Time!
INB4 Sex Sells. Sex is not a be all end all folks. Lets drop our collective cocks and try logic once in a while shall we?
Bartoni's Law definition: As an Internet discussion grows volatile, the probability of a comparison involving Donald Trump approaches 1.
5 things here
-WoW style questing (short quests with big ! or ? over quest giver)
- INSTANCES my biggest thing gripe of modern day MMOs MMORPG are spose to bring the comunity together while do we teasr it appart with instances that make the game feel like a lobby co up game. what makes thing worst is that u must do these to get the best gear.
- Getting new gear every 5 minutes to replace the piece you just got from the previous quest, gear is just to abundant in todays games you dont hold onto a piece for more then a day (or a single level) without it getting replaced espiecly when leveling
-Soulbound items.
-A lack of challenge
Yeah Im sick of moody emo vampires.
But some stake land style mindless killing machine or 30 days of night style human hating Nazi vampires would be cool.
E.g. proper evil bastard vampires not a bunch of tragically misunderstood wimps.
Any devs out there, might be interesting to make a zero instancing game and market the lack of instancing heavily.
That making everything easy and without work makes a game fun.
It doesn't, it means anything you 'earn' feels that much more lack luster and leaves you craving for more. I remember when it was so exciting to progress and beat a dungeon or raid you have been working on for some time. Now it doesn't feel like any big accomplishment, specially when it will be trivialized quickly and just skipped over in a few weeks. Leveling feels like a grind as hitting the max level just isn't very rewarding unless your doing it 'first'. It use to be just about reaching some goal, not having to be the first to make it feel rewarding.
Ermm we have had a western MMO with stalls, SOE was doing it 12 years ago with EQ with the Nexus, it was a bit laggy though . But yeah I agree with you, we seem to going backwards compared to games like Age of Wushu's.