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Please Set The Record Stright

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  • MagiknightMagiknight McKinleyville, CAPosts: 782Member
    Originally posted by DarknessReign

    People Are calling this a WoW clone . So i want to ask HOW is it a clone ? In detail please.

    I Have some Questions that people can awnser PLEASE BE HONEST!

    Question one Did you ever play FFXI and for how long?

    Question two Did you play V1 of FFXIV and for how long?

    Question three Did you play WoW and for how long?

    Question four Be specific what aspects of FFXIV:ARR are like WoW ?

    Question five Define what a "clone" is?

    Question six What specific aspects are like FFXI if any ?

    Question seven Do you think it is fair to pass judgement on a game that is only in a alpha build?

    Question eight On a scale of one to ten rate your excitement to play ARR?

    Question nine Are you a Hard Core gamer or a casual one ?

    Question ten How old are you ?

     

     

    1.  Yes. About five years. I played until ToAU was released and quit for about a year. Then I came back for about a year.

    2. Yes. I played the initial release for a couple months. Then I played it for a couple months right before the servers shut down.

    3. Yes. I probably played it for four months.

    4. Short ladder to the top. End game focused. Being led by the nose from point to point. Heavy use of instances. Increased number of hybrids. Race is insignificant in terms of how you play, ie stats are basically the same. Monsters are incredibly easy to kill.

    5. If we are sticking to the dictionary definition of the word then the word clone is a bad choice. The point is that a "WoW clone" is a game that doesn't dare to be different to any significant degree.

    6. I donm't know what this question means.

    7. Six years ago I would have answer no to this question. Everyone knows that 90% of the games released either fail or are only playable for a few months. With the kind of games I see being released over and over it makes game quality very predictable.

    8. 2

    9. I don't know what this means either. Time spent gaming? Quality of games? Pickiness? What?

    10. 28

  • drivendawndrivendawn montgomery, ALPosts: 1,237Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by zevni78

     

    Man this thread is depressing.

     

    I don't think there is any point in talking about this anymore, people have made their minds up. I just hope enough try ARR at launch and enjoy it for the game to survive.

     

    If it means anything, ARR isn't a WoW clone, that is an over simplification, it is a standard western style fantasy thempark mmo, which it needs to be to have broader, safer, appeal given its budget. It has its own flavour which some will like, and some features that are interesting, when you get deeper into it. Alterholics will love the armoury, and crafters may enjoy the attention they get.

     

    That is as balanced a summation as you will get here. 

    I'll agree with this and im done.

  • Snowdon_CloudripperSnowdon_Cloudripper Chickasha, OKPosts: 584Member
    Originally posted by Netspook
    Originally posted by DarknessReign
    I love the Awnsers and the debate so far. the post with the true definition of clone was funny :) . I also like the post calling me names that shows total class and maturity keep it up bra. I remember when V1 came out and the community screamed WoW clone . Then ARR there screaming WoW clone . I'm glad we can finally decide what is or is not a WoW clone . But honesty exp parties with chains will be back weapon skill stacking . I do want to know to if it copies some modern mmo standards the WoW added I.e questing exp. Is that a bad thing ?

     

    This is a pathetic lie. I haven't seen a single post where anyone called v1 a wow clone.

    No cred left.

    [mod edit]

    http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/4838581#4838581

    As for the FFXIV V1 a WoW clone compairing Beta V1 with Alpha V2 Just before the game Ended people were talking about how much it was starting to feel like WoW

     

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  • MagiknightMagiknight McKinleyville, CAPosts: 782Member
    Originally posted by drivendawn
    Originally posted by zevni78

     

    Man this thread is depressing.

     

    I don't think there is any point in talking about this anymore, people have made their minds up. I just hope enough try ARR at launch and enjoy it for the game to survive.

     

    If it means anything, ARR isn't a WoW clone, that is an over simplification, it is a standard western style fantasy thempark mmo, which it needs to be to have broader, safer, appeal given its budget. It has its own flavour which some will like, and some features that are interesting, when you get deeper into it. Alterholics will love the armoury, and crafters may enjoy the attention they get.

     

    That is as balanced a summation as you will get here. 

    I'll agree with this and im done.

    A standard western style themepark MMO is a wow clone. Only minor things change from game to game so that the WoW adventure can continue indefinitely. You have to play a themepark that was developed before WoW to see the difference. Unfortunately most of those have now been patched to be more WoW like.

  • nennafirnennafir Greater New Orleans Metro Area, LAPosts: 282Member

    Hi DarknessReign,

     

    I have played all of FFXI, FFXIV v1, and WoW a lot, although not recently for any of them.  I am also mid-40s and older than you and am married and have a few kids, although I am not sure why that is relevant and you asked it.  I also have a registration date a lot earlier than you so am not a "newcomer" unlike you.

     

    It does sound like they are basically making FFXIV:ARR a WoW clone with a FF veneer.  So be it.  The WoW engine means it will be a solid game.  The FF veneer means it will appeal to a lot of people.  Don't underestimate the importance of a veneer:  people tend to do what they do for stylistic reasons more than anything else.

     

    I am looking forward to it and will give it a chance.

     

  • zevni78zevni78 grimsbyPosts: 1,133Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Magiknight

    A standard western style themepark MMO is a wow clone. Only minor things change from game to game so that the WoW adventure can continue indefinitely. You have to play a themepark that was developed before WoW to see the difference. Unfortunately most of those have now been patched to be more WoW like.

     

    That is still an over-simplification, yes WoW typifies the standard model, but due to it being derived from mmos before and "borrowing" ideas after, it reflects the zeitgeist, and ARR has to too. Yes Yoshida has put in elements that will remind many people of WoW, but that is only due to so many more having played it, and not much else. After playing a great many western mmos ARR looks more like 1,0 mixed with a generic quest mechanic, not WoW in particular. (semantics a little bit I admit)

     

    I did play many mmos before WoW, they had features I miss, and many I don’t, WoW was considerably less of a hassle, and it’s hard to go backwards. Playing FFXIV 1.0 made you miss basic features we now take for granted. ARR needs to provide common ground,  the quest hubs it now has are for the starting class you pick, the rest will be using leves, grinding, and dungeons, just as 1.0, giving it an older mmo feel. In many ways ARR reminds me more of Ragnarok  in its atmosphere, classes given their own areas and stories, lack of quests (eventually) and the crafting.

     

    I cannot wait for this period to end, people judging the game via NDA leaks and a few mins of footage is pissing me off, and I wish I was free to really respond.

  • Snowdon_CloudripperSnowdon_Cloudripper Chickasha, OKPosts: 584Member
    Originally posted by nennafir

    Hi DarknessReign,

     

    I have played all of FFXI, FFXIV v1, and WoW a lot, although not recently for any of them.  I am also mid-40s and older than you and am married and have a few kids, although I am not sure why that is relevant and you asked it.  I also have a registration date a lot earlier than you so am not a "newcomer" unlike you.

     

    It does sound like they are basically making FFXIV:ARR a WoW clone with a FF veneer.  So be it.  The WoW engine means it will be a solid game.  The FF veneer means it will appeal to a lot of people.  Don't underestimate the importance of a veneer:  people tend to do what they do for stylistic reasons more than anything else.

     

    I am looking forward to it and will give it a chance.

     

    One of meany honest awnsers . The reason why i asked the Age question is because if someone who is say 20 and played WoW from day 1 that would make them 12 when they started or if someone started FFXI from day one at the same age it would make them 10 its a way to see how honest they are . Things from 10~12 years in age might seem Bigger or smaller then they really were . And i would agree with you. Its ok to copy somethings like WoW it is after all the biggest MMO . And is what players in NA are used to. Just as long as its not a total Copy witch i dont think it will be.

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  • zevni78zevni78 grimsbyPosts: 1,133Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by nennafir

     

     

    It does sound like they are basically making FFXIV:ARR a WoW clone with a FF veneer.  So be it.  The WoW engine means it will be a solid game.  The FF veneer means it will appeal to a lot of people.  Don't underestimate the importance of a veneer:  people tend to do what they do for stylistic reasons more than anything else.

     

     

    Actually the veneer, (though fairly thick at first) are the WoW elements, true the UI and combat are a big permanent change, but the questing hub game play is finite, and there are a lot of classes to lvl with the armoury system, that is why leves from 1.0 and exp chains from FFXI will become more important the longer you play, until it won't feel remotely like WoW, (providing they get endgame combat right).

  • MagiknightMagiknight McKinleyville, CAPosts: 782Member
    Originally posted by zevni78
    Originally posted by nennafir

     

     

    It does sound like they are basically making FFXIV:ARR a WoW clone with a FF veneer.  So be it.  The WoW engine means it will be a solid game.  The FF veneer means it will appeal to a lot of people.  Don't underestimate the importance of a veneer:  people tend to do what they do for stylistic reasons more than anything else.

     

     

    Actually the veneer, (though fairly thick at first) are the WoW elements, true the UI and combat are a big permanent change, but the questing hub game play is finite, and there are a lot of classes to lvl with the armoury system, that is why leves from 1.0 and exp chains from FFXI will become more important the longer you play, until it won't feel remotely like WoW, (providing they get endgame combat right).

    I can't think of anything worse than levees.  What is the maximum exp chain you can get? I bet they are ultra fast and nonstop. I bet every class is just as playable for each race.

  • Snowdon_CloudripperSnowdon_Cloudripper Chickasha, OKPosts: 584Member
    I do want to say one last thing . And this is truth and i really hope you all follow my logic with this . I really think what SE is doing is smart. People who still play WoW most from what i heard play because there is nothing better, Same with the die hard XIs. What Se is trying to do is take the things not ALL the things that make WoW , WoW and apply them for the WoW fan . Because like i said from what i hear WoW fans want something better but nothing fills the void. Maybe ARR can. Same with FF or FFXI fans (me) SE wants to bring everything in from past FFs. Golden Saucer , Crystal Tower all this is great , FF story lines are usually really great. graphics are always top notch . I am looking foward to this game V1 i did play for 10 months and after two 50s Lancer and Archer on one Chr and a 28 Lnc on another it just got old. At that time all there was , was the HNMs and the new NMs for level 30 gear. Fun at first then got old and stale. So i am hoping with this V2 i hope we can get the best of both world and come together and play something that can be great. But we have to learn to drop our basis can take off the blinders and look at something new for what it TRULY is . FFXIV:ARR will be what we all hoped it would be and both the WoW community and FF FFXI community can be happy with that. As we should be.

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  • zevni78zevni78 grimsbyPosts: 1,133Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Magiknight
     

    I can't think of anything worse than levees.  What is the maximum exp chain you can get? I bet they are ultra fast and nonstop. I bet every class is just as playable for each race.

    Leves are just a way to break up the grind, just as quests, only with more control over difficulty, (most pve is too easy in most mmos these days) True in 1.0 with nothing but leves it was a pain, but by the time you are more dependent on them you will be more invested (which I find takes the edge off), and they are only one of many ways to lvl now (also there will be a daily limit). No idea how many exp chains you can get, they will be harder to maintain solo due to the need to balance TP and health. Race makes no difference for class, same as 1.0.

  • ezpz77ezpz77 Beale, CAPosts: 227Member
    Nice quadruple post.
  • Snowdon_CloudripperSnowdon_Cloudripper Chickasha, OKPosts: 584Member
    thanks can't edit posts on cell phone

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  • zevni78zevni78 grimsbyPosts: 1,133Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by DarknessReign
    thanks can't edit posts on cell phone

    I wouldnt post using a cell here, it just gives people more things in your posts to nit pick. I would stick to the informative posts, its best not to get into the flame wars, no one comes out looking good.

  • Pratt2112Pratt2112 Mt marion, NYPosts: 1,534Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by evilastro

    This is a quote by the producer of FFIV:

    "I think it would've been good if they tried seeing what happened if they turned World of Warcraft into Final Fantasy. So, because they tried only to make something that was 'different from FFXI,' they ended up with not much of anything.

    "They should have said, 'Hey you, go play WoW for a year [for inspiration].'

    http://www.ign.com/articles/2012/11/27/yoshida-another-mistake-like-ff14-would-destroy-square

     

    It is very publicly known that the producer is borrowing heavily from World of Warcraft, as he feels that is the direction the game should have gone in the first instance.

    Yep. Yoshi-P's been quite open about that from the beginning, that WoW was a major influence on the direction he was taking 2.0/ARR.

    Somehow when you point that out, give examples of the things we now know will be very much taken from WoW and its derivatives - based on Yoshi-P's remarks, screenshots and official Alpha vids - and then dare say you aren't happy about it... people like the OP get all bent out of shape over it. They post threads trying to challenge people on it. As though folks have to defend and justify their opinions to the OP's satisfaction in order for them to be considered "valid".

    Incidentally, when someone calls a MMO a WoW clone, what they mean is very simply that it's a game that is designed from a similar "template" that WoW established due to its popularity. Calling it a WoW clone is not necessarily a negative if you enjoy WoW and other games with similar designs/gameplay mechanics. WoW did borrow from MMOs to come before it, but it borrowed those features and systems and then implemented them in a very specific way, which has become the "definition" of WoW-like gameplay. 

    Here's some reasons people will or have had a negative feeling about a game being a WoW clone...

    1. "Been there, done that". That formula has been copied time and again. Even for people who enjoyed Blizzard's take on the MMORPG, they'd like to see something different. They'd like to see someone bring fresh ideas to the genre. To take what's come before and put some new and interesting twist on it, like Blizzard took ideas from its predecessors and put its own twist on them.

    2. They didn't like the WoW format to begin with, and are waiting for someone to try/do somethign different.

    3. They don't like the overly helpful, hand-holding and extremely linear nature of the questing and content progression in WoW and its derivatives.  They'd like to see something different, more open and less guided.

    In short... people have simply had 8 years of MMOs built around the same systems, with the same kind of gameplay, the same overall feel and setups, just wrapped in different styled graphics (and in some cases, even the graphics are made to look as WoW-like as possible) and with one or two "gimmicks" that make the game seem a little different at first... but only for a short while until those gimmicks lose their novelty and people realize what they're left with is another WoW clone.

    It's like when something like 3D in movies came back to the forefront. Suddenly, everyone and their uncle was putting out a movie in 3D. Some people love it and could watch them all day. Others thought they were kinda cool at first, but then it got to be a bit much and they're ready to move on. Yet others never liked it in the first place, felt it was a gimmick to distract people from the fact that the movie industry is pretty much creatively bankrupt, and can't wait 'til the fad is over.

    The better question, for people like the OP is, why do you care what others think? If others don't like the WoW model of MMO development and would like something different, and speak out about it... why do you care? Why do people have to explain and justify themselves to you? They're entitled to not like it every bit as much as you're entitled to like it.

    People have different views, opinions and preferences... how about you let people express theirs, just as you express yours without the "20 questions" BS? Not sure who you think you are, exactly.. but no one owes you an explanation or justification for what they think.

    You could do what normal, mature and reasonable people do: accept that they have an opinion different from yours, respect their right to have one, and move on.

  • Snowdon_CloudripperSnowdon_Cloudripper Chickasha, OKPosts: 584Member
    it was 10 questions not 20 let's get facts straight. And this post wad ment to be a BS post from the start. Mainly do to the haters hating on a Alpha . Some not all but some come in with zero productive things to say. If you don't like final fantasy or this mmo then why even waste time degrading it? I am sure 90% of the people who come here on this site in these forums do so to talk about the subject final fantasy xiv a realm reborn. not its a garbage game don't try it . even this post witch is a garbage post when you look at all my real informative posts had a goal and it succeed in showing the people who really care about the game and want genuine information to the posters that don't. I ask the people who posted on this ridiculous topic and kept it going what have you offered that is a positive to the main topic at hand final fantasy xiv a realm reborn ? I don't mind negatives but only when there is validity . Not BS like WoW clone it will suck don't play . Won't last its just like WoW. And the info YOU leave out in regards to Yoshi-P and WoW he also said he had the team play OTHER mmos to gain inspiration NOT JUST WoW. It is sad when in today's world people only present half truths and justify them as whole truths. People may not like V2 because it is like WoW ok so what. V1 did not really start out like WoW and people hated it. Now its changed for the better I think and most of these same people hate it. Blame the community for that. Yoshi built almost 1/2 the game off community criticisms from V1 . So there is no pleasing anyone it seems. But I like most hear will play it and will enjoy it or at least give it the benefit if the doubt and try it. Before I cast total judgment on it.

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  • ezpz77ezpz77 Beale, CAPosts: 227Member
    Originally posted by DarknessReign
    it was 10 questions not 20 let's get facts straight. And this post wad ment to be a BS post from the start. Mainly do to the haters hating on a Alpha . Some not all but some come in with zero productive things to say. If you don't like final fantasy or this mmo then why even waste time degrading it? I am sure 90% of the people who come here on this site in these forums do so to talk about the subject final fantasy xiv a realm reborn. not its a garbage game don't try it . even this post witch is a garbage post when you look at all my real informative posts had a goal and it succeed in showing the people who really care about the game and want genuine information to the posters that don't. I ask the people who posted on this ridiculous topic and kept it going what have you offered that is a positive to the main topic at hand final fantasy xiv a realm reborn ? I don't mind negatives but only when there is validity . Not BS like WoW clone it will suck don't play . Won't last its just like WoW. And the info YOU leave out in regards to Yoshi-P and WoW he also said he had the team play OTHER mmos to gain inspiration NOT JUST WoW. It is sad when in today's world people only present half truths and justify them as whole truths. People may not like V2 because it is like WoW ok so what. V1 did not really start out like WoW and people hated it. Now its changed for the better I think and most of these same people hate it. Blame the community for that. Yoshi built almost 1/2 the game off community criticisms from V1 . So there is no pleasing anyone it seems. But I like most hear will play it and will enjoy it or at least give it the benefit if the doubt and try it. Before I cast total judgment on it.

     

    So you admit to making a shitpost, continue to post for like eight pages mainly being comabitve and baiting, and now you complain about the quality and content of other peoples posts. What were you expecting? You post like a goatfucking jerk and then get uppity about it when your topics get derailed, trolled, flamed, etc.

     

    Despite your shittiness as a poster and the claim that there was no positive discussion in this thread, there was a good bit of productive discussion.

  • Snowdon_CloudripperSnowdon_Cloudripper Chickasha, OKPosts: 584Member
    yes I succeed in baiting the WoW trolls . And enjoyed there class and relentless put downs directed to me witch like in reality I don't back away from . Think about it for a moment all my posts except this one are informative. The information thread , the new music thread I posted today , contrasts between V1 and V1 from zones. Then I make this post right after the top 2 posts were It's like WoW /sadface and I won't play this. So this post did its job . I am shocked MMORPG let it go as long as it has to be honest

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