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This game has exactly ONE problem...

MeridionMeridion HeidelbergPosts: 1,490Member

... Certification gain.

 

Let's not lie about it. You need to unlock expensive stuff to be competetive. It's a must on vehicles and prevalent in infantry. A Reaver/Mos/Scythe with just the main gun is fodder, a stock lightning is cardboard, even the heavy tanks are top of the red list if they're on the newb setup. The starter guns - at least for NC - are only acceptable for combat medic and heavy.

That would be no problem, you gotta level in every MMO.

The problem is...

There are millions of examples how XP gain and cert cost are ridiculously skewed at the moment.

Liberator belly gunner, combat zerg medic vs. teamplay infiltrator or pilot or engineer.

It's just ridiculous. I buy the aircraft, I upgrade the aircraft, I dump SC into it and the random a**hat that sits in my belly pot and clicks on moving black dots gets 1000XP per minute.

Infiltrator. Even worse. I enter a squad, go on vent, look for a not so contested base. Get into an overwatch position, sit there for 10 minutes scouting the area, killing - at best - two or three poor souls attempting to reach good positions, and the 250-500 XP for flipping a minor base. While as a combat medic, I connect, click on "deploy" at the reddest spot on the world map, run where most people are, and make 10000 XP in 10 minutes just by rezzing and healing the zerg dudes.

I know this will eventually die down when the zerg leaves the game.

Still. Just reduce incentive from killing stuff or rezzing stuff and increase rewards for flipping bases. And by increasing I mean 10000 XP for flipping a heavily contested Biolab, A thousand for converting a control point. And by reducing I mean 10 XP for killing some random dude somewhere.

M

 

EDIT: In fact, I only play CM atm just to be able to afford the stuff you need to actually be useful in vehicles or as any other class.

 

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Comments

  • KhondorKhondor Lorton, VAPosts: 51Member Uncommon
    You do realize you can play an engineer or medic once in awhile to earn XP?  
  • saurus123saurus123 nonePosts: 568Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Khondor
    You do realize you can play an engineer or medic once in awhile to earn XP?  

    and you know you get 10x times more xp just by killing 1 guy?

     

    cert gain is too slow after like 2 weeks they released new weapons 1000 certs each

    soon they will add new stuff i bet it will be 1000+ certs each

     

    also thier changes you bough armor for like 1k cert total and next day its nerfed by 80%

  • muffins89muffins89 Yakima, WAPosts: 1,306Member Uncommon
    i can understand the arguement for slow xp in order to boost cash shop sales.  but,  i think it also adds to the longevity of the game.  if everyone could max out in a week or so.  people would get bored as they would have nothing to play for.  much like most themepark games.  reaching max lvl is so fast that people get bored quickly.

    I think the prostitute mod corrupted your game files man. -elhefen

  • saurus123saurus123 nonePosts: 568Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by muffins89
    i can understand the arguement for slow xp in order to boost cash shop sales.  but,  i think it also adds to the longevity of the game.  if everyone could max out in a week or so.  people would get bored as they would have nothing to play for.  much like most themepark games.  reaching max lvl is so fast that people get bored quickly.

    yes but playing 1-3 week to unlock 1 weapon (without upgrades) when each class have about 6 weapons is a bit too much

    in that time sony release new weapons and stuff

     

    after reaching max lvl and unlocking all weapons and upgrades game isnt boring anymore you have so many stuff to choice

     

    you play 1 hour as a HA and next riding in a tank or liberator when you have stuff unlocked

  • fadisfadis funkg, GAPosts: 469Member

     

     

    You're going to unlock items and skills relative to your % boosts and your play time.  If you pay nothing and play very little... what do you expect?

     

    Varying degrees of 'more playing' or 'more paying' will allow you faster progression... but you aren't going to really be able to progress faster than people that are doing either or both of those things more than you.

     

    If it's strictly a personal thing.  Either pay more, or play more to reach your desired rate of success.

     

    That's the game.  That's the model. 

     

    Otherwise...

     

     

  • aRtFuLThinGaRtFuLThinG MelbournePosts: 1,133Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by saurus123
    Originally posted by Khondor
    You do realize you can play an engineer or medic once in awhile to earn XP?  

    and you know you get 10x times more xp just by killing 1 guy?

    It is not. It is only close to 1/2 more IF you get the kill blow.

     

    Rezzing actually net you a close to 3/4 exp as you will if you killing blow someone, and it actually nets MORE then what you get for assist.

     

    Healing nets less than assist, but healing's xp is count by per tick, so it actually ended up more.

     

    Combat medic gets crazy xp. That's why so many high ranked ppl get the ns11a rifle, use the cert to max medkit, and go combat medic.

  • MeridionMeridion HeidelbergPosts: 1,490Member
    Originally posted by muffins89
    i can understand the arguement for slow xp in order to boost cash shop sales.  but,  i think it also adds to the longevity of the game.  if everyone could max out in a week or so.  people would get bored as they would have nothing to play for.  much like most themepark games.  reaching max lvl is so fast that people get bored quickly.

    No problem with slow cert gain, but ffs adjust the rate. As a pilot in a galaxy or lib you get zero XP, as an air to air pilot you gain merely 100 for gunning down another ESV, as a tactical infantry player (squad play, double tap, overwatch, etc) you get a pat on the back and lousy 250 XP for flipping an outpost while cert gain in zergs, as a gunner or killzone-rez-medic is over the top...

    As it is now, the game encourages people to not organize at all but form a zergball and chokepoint-grenade-rezz-fullauto-spam till kingdom come. You don't even get the meagre flip-XP-reward from defending.

    The last hours I've been siting behind a rock/crate/tree at the crown in indar watching 200 people zerg-rezzing each other just for XP. There was no interest at all in even taking the base... all cliffs around the base were packed with snipers and engis were mounting up turrets at every door to the facility.

    And I don't even blame them, you start out with crap equipment and the game practically tells you to "giev cash or grind". It even hands out a red flame icon with a "grind here" button. 

    There is no encouragement to take the teamplay route. And that includes me. I grind certs till kingdom come because I want to be a fighter pilot (which you can pull the plug on without missiles/rockets), I want an anti-air-tank, I want a competetive sidearm as infiltrator, and the list goes on...

    And as this stuff is absurdly expensive to buy with SC (which means 10 bucks for a gun, 5 bucks for camo expensive), I rezz on...

    Would be so much more fun if the game actually rewarded territorial control a LOT more. Like in Planetside 1, where you COULD conquer a continent and call it your own...

    M

     

    EDIT: and on a sidenote: The subscription is a complete ripoff imo, since the bonus is extremely thin and 500 sc a month buy you nothing.

  • MeridionMeridion HeidelbergPosts: 1,490Member
    Originally posted by aRtFuLThinG
    Originally posted by saurus123
    Originally posted by Khondor
    You do realize you can play an engineer or medic once in awhile to earn XP?  

    and you know you get 10x times more xp just by killing 1 guy?

    It is not. It is only close to 1/2 more IF you get the kill blow.

     

    Rezzing actually net you a close to 3/4 exp as you will if you killing blow someone, and it actually nets MORE then what you get for assist.

     

    Healing nets less than assist, but healing's xp is count by per tick, so it actually ended up more.

     

    Combat medic gets crazy xp. That's why so many high ranked ppl get the ns11a rifle, use the cert to max medkit, and go combat medic.

    Exactly this. You get 75 for a standard rez. Thats 75% of  a killing blow. And in zergs, you can rez the shizzle out of people. 10 rezzes a minute at a chokepoint, no problem. 10 kills, not in a thousand years.

    M

  • MeridionMeridion HeidelbergPosts: 1,490Member
    Originally posted by fadis

     

     

    You're going to unlock items and skills relative to your % boosts and your play time.  If you pay nothing and play very little... what do you expect?

     

    Varying degrees of 'more playing' or 'more paying' will allow you faster progression... but you aren't going to really be able to progress faster than people that are doing either or both of those things more than you.

     

    If it's strictly a personal thing.  Either pay more, or play more to reach your desired rate of success.

     

    That's the game.  That's the model. 

     

    Otherwise...

     

     

    I'm not complaining about slow progression. I'm complaining about encouraging zergballing instead of territorial and effective combined arms warfare...

  • Bakkoda24Bakkoda24 Albany, NYPosts: 256Member

    As someone who plays mostly infiltrator, I am most upset with the headshot xp bonus. I get 10 or 11 bonus experience for popping someone in the noggin. That's absurd. Headshots should net at least 50-60 bonus and then a gradual increase per consecutive headshot.

    Doing generator and terminal hacking would be more effective if we had a better secondary weapon available. Pistols for NCR are f**cking embarrassing.

    So this game has more than one problems but certifications and cert gains are definitely at the forefront.

  • EternalSage2000EternalSage2000 Anchorage, AKPosts: 29Member
    Well,  the game is free to download / free to play.  The only way the company makes any money, is to get you to spend money in the shop.  If they just gave you everything, they wouldnt be very profitable.  you have to remember, no company is going to dump thousands of man hours into a project and then just give it all away.
  • aRtFuLThinGaRtFuLThinG MelbournePosts: 1,133Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Meridion

    No problem with slow cert gain, but ffs adjust the rate. As a pilot in a galaxy or lib you get zero XP, as an air to air pilot you gain merely 100 for gunning down another ESV, as a tactical infantry player (squad play, double tap, overwatch, etc) you get a pat on the back and lousy 250 XP for flipping an outpost while cert gain in zergs, as a gunner or killzone-rez-medic is over the top...

    As it is now, the game encourages people to not organize at all but form a zergball and chokepoint-grenade-rezz-fullauto-spam till kingdom come. You don't even get the meagre flip-XP-reward from defending.

    The last hours I've been siting behind a rock/crate/tree at the crown in indar watching 200 people zerg-rezzing each other just for XP. There was no interest at all in even taking the base... all cliffs around the base were packed with snipers and engis were mounting up turrets at every door to the facility.

    And I don't even blame them, you start out with crap equipment and the game practically tells you to "giev cash or grind". It even hands out a red flame icon with a "grind here" button. 

    There is no encouragement to take the teamplay route. And that includes me. I grind certs till kingdom come because I want to be a fighter pilot (which you can pull the plug on without missiles/rockets), I want an anti-air-tank, I want a competetive sidearm as infiltrator, and the list goes on...

    And as this stuff is absurdly expensive to buy with SC (which means 10 bucks for a gun, 5 bucks for camo expensive), I rezz on...

    Would be so much more fun if the game actually rewarded territorial control a LOT more. Like in Planetside 1, where you COULD conquer a continent and call it your own...

    M

     

    EDIT: and on a sidenote: The subscription is a complete ripoff imo, since the bonus is extremely thin and 500 sc a month buy you nothing.

    ^ Totally agree with all of that. Vehicles and air r by far the MOST helpful support element in a fight and yet they get pathetic xp.

     

    Galaxy should be like a Sunderer - they get xp for troop drop and pickup into a hot (heavy contested) zone, so they don't get ripped off on xp.

     

    Air units should get added xp for air superiority. Armor units should get added xp for armor force domination imo.

     

    And agree on the sub option also. No worth it at all. Might as well get pay as you need it to get cosmetic stuff.

  • fadisfadis funkg, GAPosts: 469Member

    There is a lack of knowledge in this thread.

     

    Some things in the game cannot be purchased directly... ie. skills.  XP boosters and subscription boosters certainly help get more and better levels of skills.

     

    Any weapon and any cosmetic upgrade can be purchased.  Weapons can also be purchased by certs.

     

     

    I'm still not seeing anything logical in this thread... just sounds like a few people that don't want to pay any $, complaining they can't get access to everything they want - at the pace they want.

  • adam_noxadam_nox hays, KSPosts: 2,035Member Uncommon
    Game should cost 20 bucks for an account, and come with 20 bucks worth of station cash or whatever it uses.  I don't mind paying upfront if I know everyone has to pay, but I don't like paying just to get some sort of in game progression.  An upfront fee would thin out the community a bit and lower cheating too.
  • BeanpuieBeanpuie Norfolk, VAPosts: 812Member Uncommon

    I agree with some of the concerns, they have been brought up various times however, and talked about by the dev team in some form or manner.

     

    Cert gain should be balanced out more,  just went through double xp weekend, and got a good chunk of side grades for my gun.

    however i sacrificed any hope of getting some major weapons for my vehicles, simply at the moment thats not my focus, however those that do have that focus will have a hard time getting what they want due to ground pounding, or being at a disadvantage vs. some one that already put in their certs for said vehicle weapons or they paid for them ( from alpha squad, subscription,  or SC).

    on the Infantry side of things, its no where near as bad,  esspecially when you have the try before you buy option.  the best thing a person can do as a infantry is to really stick with 1 or 2 guns that mold well with their playstyle and run with it.  alot of the guns in PS2 are relative even ground,  ya, some have better rate of fire,  some have better punching power.  but once you find out which gun works most for you,  Again..on infantry (not vehicles)  it boils down to side grades,  which can only be achieved through cert points and not station cash at all.

     

    i would favor cutting the cert cost for alot of things by half  (500 at least), but i understand that they want the players to grind it out until they add in more content, ( buggies, vehicles, continents etc. etc.).  people will continue to bring these issues up,  and I would say i would be one of them.  as long as folks continue talking about it  the PS2 dev team will reach a compromise.

     

    then again by that time, we may already get the weapons we want.

  • Bakkoda24Bakkoda24 Albany, NYPosts: 256Member
    Originally posted by fadis

    There is a lack of knowledge in this thread.

     

    Some things in the game cannot be purchased directly... ie. skills.  XP boosters and subscription boosters certainly help get more and better levels of skills.

     

    Any weapon and any cosmetic upgrade can be purchased.  Weapons can also be purchased by certs.

     

     

    I'm still not seeing anything logical in this thread... just sounds like a few people that don't want to pay any $, complaining they can't get access to everything they want - at the pace they want.

    No I'm saying there's a clear imbalance in certification gains between classes based on how classes actually gain certs and how many certs are gained per action. That's poor design.

  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIPosts: 8,272Member Uncommon
    Please please don't take this the wrong way, but when you learn the game certs come a lot quicker. I gained about 800 certs or more this weeked. It was a double cert weekend so in a normal, I would have gained 400. That being said, the way the system is set up for new players, you should buy the weapons, and use certs for scopes, frames and the like.
  • AeliousAelious Portland, ORPosts: 2,853Member Uncommon

    While there is an obvious difference between Cert gain with Medic/Engineer and everyone else I wonder if it wasn't balanced that way on purpose.  It would make sense to a point but I agree that a small adjustment couldn't hurt.  Also, I think the owners of weaponized vehicles should get 50-75% of the Cert gain made from gunners.  This could bring more vehicles to the fight which IMO is never a bad thing.  I would forward this sentiment to the main forums though I'm sure it has already.

     

    "Victory is our tradition"

  • AeliousAelious Portland, ORPosts: 2,853Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by adam_nox
    Game should cost 20 bucks for an account, and come with 20 bucks worth of station cash or whatever it uses.  I don't mind paying upfront if I know everyone has to pay, but I don't like paying just to get some sort of in game progression.  An upfront fee would thin out the community a bit and lower cheating too.

     They did an SC kickback for the Alpha Squad preorder program.  I think it was 50.00 and you received 4000SC, or 40.00 worth, on top of some other perks.  If you are a fan of an SoE games it's best to watch your accounts mailbox for double and triple SC weekends.  One 15.00 Walmart giftcard redeemed on a triple SC weekend is worth 6000 SC and should last you a long time.

  • Bakkoda24Bakkoda24 Albany, NYPosts: 256Member
    Originally posted by bcbully
    Please please don't take this the wrong way, but when you learn the game certs come a lot quicker. I gained about 800 certs or more this weeked. It was a double cert weekend so in a normal, I would have gained 400. That being said, the way the system is set up for new players, you should buy the weapons, and use certs for scopes, frames and the like.

    Once I found that Infiltrators can hack generators, I made sure that I went in before the rest of my outfit to hack terminals and take generators down. That combined with the point flip gave me around 2000xp per flip (sometimes I would have to re-hack terminals/generators).

    In terms of weapons, as an infiltrator I understand I have to get a jump on my opponents and use stealth/knife/pistol combos but not having an automatic or semi-auto secondary weapon is a severe handicap to an already weak class.

    Same thing goes for having to hit some targets 4-5 times with a sniper rifle. "Solve that with higher damage rifles," you'll say but my point still stands.

    Classes are imbalanced due to cert gain.

  • TeknoBugTeknoBug Calgary, ABPosts: 2,156Member

    Struggling to gain certs as a new player is understandable (not to mention MOST new players do nothing but snipe and play light assault) but you can get hundreds of certs in an hour or 2- drive an AMS and heal and repair. The upgraded heavy assault rifles (100 certs) are actually a decent upgrade for close quarters, but I don't bother with HA as I play engineer the most.

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  • RIGHTNOWRIGHTNOW sacramento, CAPosts: 1Member

    Well what i find funny is the dev team didn't seem to learn a damn thing from the mistakes they made from the first planetside which i played so much i wore the paint off my mouse.

    They had the same problem with support xp in the first one as they do right now, I haven't played since late beta on ps2 but are dead bodies still running around on the ground???? same problem they had with the first one. The hackers that everyone complains about (i know hard to keep hackers out and prevent them in all games) same problem they had in the first one also.

    I was really looking forward to the release of Ps2 and in my opinion i feel like they just dropped the ball....again.....i suppose if you never played ps1 then i can understand everyone being excited about it but me as a vet just feel the game doesn't feel right something is missing and off.

    I just hope as far as the problems they are having with xp and hackers for the sake of everyone that plays the game now to be fixed they should have had that junk all figured out already that they had problems with in the first ps1.

     

    Well Good Luck 

     

    SICKOFIT Markov Ps1.......Ps2 not so much.

  • ZinzanZinzan NorthPosts: 1,351Member

    Step 1 - Buy rocket pods for mossie/reaver

    Step 2 - Farm everything.

    Step 3 - Profit

     

    Expresso gave me a Hearthstone beta key.....I'm so happy :)

  • KuppaKuppa Boulder, COPosts: 3,292Member Uncommon
    Just started playing the game with a group of buddies. Even though the cert gain IS slow I don't find it frustrating. I don't feel like I'm getting constantly killed by something OP. Yes, sometimes I notice some folks take way more shots than others and sometimes they hit harder than others but overall there is enough of everything and it's still tons of fun. Takes me back to my BF2 days.

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  • EnerzealEnerzeal WarringtonPosts: 326Member

    Load of old garbage, I just got done with a nice little session, 2 hours 20 minutes of time played. Earned about 280 certs during that time. Had a tech lab defense going on with others, NC kept being lemmings and trying to attack us at the shields, I would grab a grenade, dip out of the shield, throw it, dip back in grab another rinse repeat, because the NC were so clustered I was making roughly 1600 exp per nade. When i ran out of nades i grabbed both tanks and drove over the top of them for even more exp.

    According to my profile I now have 2000 certs that I have aquired. My Medical Applicator is fully ranked up, and have a T1 Cycler for my main hand weapon that makes anyone cry with its equal parts damage and accuracy.

    If your complaining about how much guns cost in cert points - stop it. Free to Play doesn't mean the developers want no cash in their pocket. Buy the guns with SC, and upgrade them with certs. My medic is finished near enough, I could see my self grabbing another C4 and finishing my shielding upgrades, maybe increase the grenade count, but honestly I am not going to, apart from the armor anyway. That's a full class finished speccing up, next maybe the infiltrator!

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