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Why this game will be an EPIC fail

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  • LahuzerLahuzer BorPosts: 666Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by JC-Smith

    On Automation...

    Our mission, den and engagement generation schemes go far beyond what you've seen in previous generated titles. A mission template for example might contain 30 goals, 4 randomly generated npcs mixed with 3 static, 2 generated items, some steps where random chance takes you into a different outcome, and branching outcomes on multiple parts. Or they can be a simple check with NPC or pick something up and return it. The templates provide you with the storyline, which is what will remain the same. The locations, and everything else is generated though. Some things are repeatable, and others are not. Some form complex chains. All of them can be configured to only happen in a certain place or multiple places. They can be configured to only be given to players who have meet criteria such as having a certain skill at a specific level, other missions completed, reputation, etc. They are tailor made for your character.

    So while there is certainly a mix of menial things to keep you occupied that involve menial tasks, there are also also missions thrown into that mix that are quite a bit deeper than in your average mmo. While doing all of these different tasks, your building your characters reputation. Depending on the dialog paths you choose (we use a branching dialog system), how you complete certain goals (some have multple ways of completion), etc. NPCs will form their responses to you. Some options may only be available to players NPCs view as Greedy. Some missions will only become available when NPCs are themselves feeling in a certain mood or facing a certain dilemma. Players can alter an NPCs dilemma, cause and mood through completing missions, which NPCs can talk to other players or NPCs about, even mentioning players by name.

    So if your judging a generation system by the SWG or DAoC style generated missions where all you were doing in each generated mission was walking to talk to an NPC or moving to kill a den, then your barking up the wrong tree. Those types of templates do exist as filler to mix up the missions and ensure players always have an endless stream of content. There are also simple tasks for non-combat types such as Diplomacy, Hacking, Medical, and Crafting missions, as well as a filter to allow you to filter out certain types. But they are also wedged in with missions that require you to make decisions that will affect your character long-term, and with epic generated missions which are long and challenging, with substantial rewards for completion. From a gameplay perspective, I don't think your losing anything over the current crop of MMOs there, other than that you may repeat the same stories multple times in your career. The steps you take on those templates though will be different though, and we also require players to figure out a bit more than they do in most other titles at this point. Things like quest markers and arrows to waypoints are a purely optional feature. Some missions provide them, and others make you figure it out. It's all determined by the template.

    The content is pretty much neverending. Just depends on how we set up the spawners and events. For example if we mark an area as a Den or engagement region we then attach certain templates to it based on what that area should contain. If it's an engagement area then this can be long chains of things to do. Engagements are similar to Events in GW2 except they tie in a bit more into our other systems so we can tie them into missions, dens, NPCs, etc. If you allow FPR players to start setting up Camps in an OWON controlled area, then the OWON players suddenly start receiving engagements to seek and destroy those camps. FPR players would have their own version of the engagements to help keep building up these areas. Depending on how each of them respond the engagements keep mutating and affecting the other sides. If those FPR camps turn into bases, suddenly you have missions being given from them, and more complex goals.

    If you take a look at the Den system, those replace static mobs. They spawn on demand and can be tailored (within parameter ranges) to make them more challenging to higher numbers of players. A den might have three forks it can follow for example. One spawner might have a chance to spawn Lesoo, Okolat or Bandits. Maybe Bandits only sprout up at night but the other two can occur at any time. Each of those could have multiple waves set up of their own spawns, and those rules also obey how the players are reacting to them. Bosses and mini-bosses come through these events, odds vary by the template, but suffice to say that if you want to find bosses for raids or grouped content, it's always spawning dynamically in the world. But each encounter is going to have it's own bit of generation. Not only do the mob types and counts have variation, but any mob that is flagged as a Boss will have generated special abilities. We create something like 10 or 15 special abilities per species and difficulty type. They'll randomly choose a few of those. As anyone who has done much raiding knows, combining diffferent types of special abilities together can make for some challenging encounters, and that's what happens every time a boss spawns in The Repopulation. Some combinations of effects are much more challenging when combined with a diffferent type of effect. And as a group or raid, you will need to identify what they are doing and adjust to it on the fly in order to succeed.

    So while your using generation as an example of how things will simplify gameplay. Imo they actually do the quite the opposite.

    ... Regarding Hero

    I'm wondering if you even watched the videos when you start saying things like zero customization. There's a segment of it which shows some of the character creation sliders in one of the videos. You have fine control over the entire face (via sliders), body dimensions, etc. A huge variety in customization. You also (as of about 2 months ago) have the ability to choose between many preset heads that you can can use as a base before starting on all of those sliders. You can tint your gear and skin. And by launch you'll also have tattoos. Armor and clothign wise at this point there are about 10 sets appearance wise, which will grow before launch. But it's safe to say that we have different metrics than a game like TOR. Our focus is going to be more centered on larger encounters during PvP, Sieges, Engagements, etc. And we'll be adjusting accordingly.

    In the case of TOR, your talking about multiple texture styles per visual tier, per class and 8 classes. It offered some great variety and within the goals of their game it made sense. However, it can cause a struggle when dealing with PvP because your really pushing a ton of state changes and using a lot of memory on the video card. A PvP focused game wouldn't want that, as PvP players are generally going to turn down the options to make gameplay silky smooth. That's the balancing act that developers need to deal with. In the case of TOR they choose their parameters as it made the most sense for their game. For us, 15-20 tintable sets would make a lot more sense than 100, for example. And end user might look at WoW and at ToR and wonder why they can have more customization in WoW and it handles more players well. For them they blame the engine, but the reality is that TORs characters were FAR higher polygon wise,  and used normal and specular map data and higher resolution textures. WIth the same texture, just adding normal/specular will more than double your texture usage. So this makes the hit on each texture much more harsh, and as users begin to fill their texture memory it makes it far more inefficient. In general the less texture or state changes you can get away with the better. Single player games always have an advantage here because they can develop content that is single model and single texture. In MMOs players can not be handled in that manner. That ensures that they can't be batch rendered efficiently. Developers have to make a compromise somewhere in between. How much customization is enough for what we're trying to accomplish. You can't blame the engine for decisions they make.

    ...On AI

    Again, your completley off base. Your trolling, and I'm only taking the time to respond here so invalidate the things you've said. Repop uses an AI template system. We can create custom AI types for different roles, and NPCs have control over which types of those templates to use, ability selection strategies, formation strategies, etc. There are two different player detection mechanisms, and hooks for all the main things that an NPC would do so each can have custom code. At day one of alpha start there were a total of two AI types being used: One for Turrets, and one for Creatures. Both using the most generic rule set possible. There are now multiple types. AI has already been improved in numerous ways since that time. And it's going to improve quite a bit more prior to launch as we have more time to tweak it. It hasn't been a high priority for us at this point, where getting vehicles, entertainers, sieges, dens and pvp were. By the time the game launches, you can expect many improvements.

    ... On Customer Service

    Not going to pretend we are going to have a huge CSR army. We'll do what we can. The key is to make players need support as little as possible and to staff as many CSRs as necessary. Your really grasping at straws though.

    Amen.

  • KickaxeKickaxe Winnipeg, MBPosts: 92Member Uncommon

    Fantastic replies, JC-Smith.  Very informative and well stated.

     

    I personally have no reason to doubt that a small dev team can work efficiently and, moreover, passionately on their game.  Some of the smaller development companies, like Trion, have shown us bigger is not necessarily better.  Though Repop's team may be smaller yet, there is plenty of room for them to surprise and impress MMO fans with how greatly they can overachieve.

  • CreepProphetCreepProphet LiedekerkePosts: 104Member

     


    Originally posted by Atrocitus


    Originally posted by JC-Smith Just need to correct a few things:
    ... On Size Of the Team, or Size of the Budget

     

    While you can generally assume that more manpower = more production, that isn't always the case. In Repop, much of what we do is based on generated content. Once you have a good generation system in place, it allows you to be more efficient in your content creation. Rather than designing 7500 hand designed missions by hand, we focus on designing 500 templates. The templates specify the rules, item types, npc types, etc and each of those can be reused many times and each time the npcs, items, etc will be different. You can a lot things done with less people if you can automate or reuse a lot of it.

    For things like artwork, you outsource to external artists or art houses, use licensed models, etc. Those types of things would all be mentions in the credits, but they don't count as team members.  Outsourcing is generally far more efficient from a price standpoint than if you do everything in-house.

    ... On Hero Engine

    Your making a judgement on the engine based on how you saw TOR handle PvP or crowds of players. That is not a Hero Engine problem. It's a problem due to a lot of customization on the TOR models. It works fine for the situations the game was designed for most of the time (sparse player population, personal storyline, lot of soloing). It didn't work as well with a large number of players. But those are design decisions.  Had TOR had a primary focus on large scale PvP they probably would have gone in a different direction there, maybe sacrificing some customization to get it done.

    As a renderer, Hero Engine isn't on par with the likes of Unreal Tech. But it's strength isn't in its renderer. It does a lot more than that. ... On AI

    The last video footage was shot on the first day of ALPHA testing. You can't judge a game AI or any of its systems really based on a 2 second splice you saw in an alpha stage video. At that stage of development everything is still very much a work in progress.


     

    Regarding  'size of the team/budget'....  

    So automating/reusage in quest content can allow for more content? Perhaps, but logic dictates repeating quest types will become boring after the first 30 runs.

    Questing, generally speaking, is something that players are tired of, much less repeated quest type. And it can be argued that questing is a very shallow content base. In this day and age, games are moving away from this old method of keeping players busy. Again, in two weeks time, after players have done the requisite kill and collect quest or whatever, that type of 'content' will not add to this games allure. Same ol' same ol.....I can hear the players crying now..../shrug

    So your argument about computer generated questing giving players something to do? Doesn't hold up......There has to be content, A LOT of it to keep players after the initial launch. There simply are not enough workers to contribute to the overall game. How you deem 'artwork' as content is beyond me.

    Regarding Hero Engine. Lack of customization is absolutely horrible. Players can't stand looking like the guy next to him. The only mmo that did this right was Aion. And lets face it, The Repop is no Aion when it comes to customization, or alot of other things for that matter.

    Horrible graphics, zero customization and watching a pvp slideshow will do nothing to help this game.....    

    Horrid AI? The oft repeated ITS IN ALPHA hurp/durp excuse isn't going to be enough when this game launches. You and I both know there won't be any massive upgrading in that dept before launch. Be honest.......    

    Customer service? You glossed over that point......Again, a small work force won't be able to handle the complaints and problems after launch.

    Your lack of a larger dev team will be mired in bug squishing eternally. If you think your launching with a lack of content, wait until two months down the road when people are wondering where the content updates are, and your still dealing with alpha bugs......    

    SImply put, this game has too many negatives going against it....../shrug


     

    Let's start at the beginning shall we?

     


    Questing, generally speaking, is something that players are tired of, much less repeated quest type. And it can be argued that questing is a very shallow content base. In this day and age, games are moving away from this old method of keeping players busy.

     

    You are saying that you don't think this game will have decent questing then back up your argument by saying no one wants to quest.

    I agree, I don't like questing. The good thing about The Repop is that the game will be have more going for it that "quest to level x, raid through current content, loaf until new content, raid through new content, loaf until new expansion, level through new expansion, raid" lather, rinse, repeat. Personally that content cycle does not hold much appeal for me.

    I like where The Repop is going in that I'll be able to go exploring, I'll be able to assist in city building, I'll be able to pvp, I'll be able to craft, I'll be able to sit back and watch a sandstorm blast across a building.

    No I don't think I'll trade that for the 'Kill 10 rats' quests. No one should have to. We've killed enough rats and as gamers we should get more from our MMO's. We've put in the play time, we've put in our suggestions, and what do we end up getting in the end? Kill ten rats with bigger shinier weapons and more cleavage! Not going to fly anymore, sorry guys. Cleavage is nice, but we all want more to do in the game.

    Now onto point two:

    A million monkeys typing may end up writing Shakespeare, but do you know how much crap they'll produce before they get there?

    How many huge budget games with huge dev teams have we played? All of us probably have a huge list. Now how many of those games are we still playing?

    These games didn't really give players something to do outside of raiding and questing.

    Sure you 'could craft' but let's face it, crafting in most MMO's seems to be designed as a gold sink and for the most part does not support game play.

    You could go exploring, but usually there's nothing to see but more mobs. You might get an achievement for it. Still not a lot of support or incentive for this type of play style.

    You could PvP, in the same battle fields, with the same objectives. Time and time again.

    All you really had was questing/raiding. Everything else in the game was designed to support that element of the game. If you're not a quester/raider, these games lose their appeal rapidly.

     


    Lack of customization is absolutely horrible. Players can't stand looking like the guy next to him. The only mmo that did this right was Aion. And lets face it, The Repop is no Aion when it comes to customization, or alot of other things for that matter. Horrible graphics, zero customization and watching a pvp slideshow will do nothing to help this game.....

     

    Once again I direct you to the game FAQ's. The sweet thing about The Repop is that you wear whatever armor you want, then swap out fittings in the armor to boost your stats. There may be a boost or two on the armor it's self, but it's what you apply to the armor that gives you all the benefits.

    What does this mean? Well it means that I can wear what I like. This is one level of customization. You add that to whatever even basic facial, size, hair color etc, kinds of combinations you choose to add and you have a greater chance to have a unique character. 

    As JC already mentioned, there's ample opportunity to make a unique character. 

    Sadly though, no wings, no pointy ears and no chainmail bikini. I'm also hoping that the game doesn't have a chest slider. Granted it's hilarious seeing a female character bounding around that's 4 feet tall with a triple F chest but is it really necessary?

    I am however hoping that tattoo's make it into the game.  That would be awesome.

     


    Horrid AI? The oft repeated ITS IN ALPHA hurp/durp excuse isn't going to be enough when this game launches. You and I both know there won't be any massive upgrading in that dept before launch. Be honest.......

     

    Now I agree that for most games this would be a deal breaker. AI are very important in most games. For the most part players spend more time interacting with AI in most games than they do interacting with each other.

    NOW, The Repop will be a little bit different. AI interaction may be necessary for questing, but that's about it. The rest of the game will be focused on different elements.

    Harvesting, Crafting, Exploring, City Building, and PvP in city defense or just plain happy PvP. These last elements are going to be mostly player driven. Lifelike AI won't really be required for these elements of game play and in my mind, these are really what will set The Repopulation apart from most games currently on the market.

    Personally I am not in Alpha so I cannot give the current state of the AI in game. My question to the poster is whether or not you're talking about Hero Engine AI's or if you're making an assumption on AI's for a game that hasn't been released or detailed.

    Just curious about the background to that statement.

    PS - I'm agreeing with what JC said (well and everything he said):

    "Repop uses an AI template system. We can create custom AI types for different roles, and NPCs have control over which types of those templates to use, ability selection strategies, formation strategies, etc. There are two different player detection mechanisms, and hooks for all the main things that an NPC would do so each can have custom code. At day one of alpha start there were a total of two AI types being used: One for Turrets, and one for Creatures. Both using the most generic rule set possible. There are now multiple types. AI has already been improved in numerous ways since that time. And it's going to improve quite a bit more prior to launch as we have more time to tweak it. It hasn't been a high priority for us at this point, where getting vehicles, entertainers, sieges, dens and pvp were. By the time the game launches, you can expect many improvements."

     


    Customer service? You glossed over that point......Again, a small work force won't be able to handle the complaints and problems after launch. Your lack of a larger dev team will be mired in bug squishing eternally. If you think your launching with a lack of content, wait until two months down the road when people are wondering where the content updates are, and your still dealing with alpha bugs......

     

    Every game is going to have bug issues. The games released in the past three years or so with flawless launches have been minimal. From independent developers to deep pocket publishers with huge development teams, most launching MMO's have had problems.

    I doubt that The Repopulation will see as many issues because the development team has already stated that the game will be released when it is ready for release. On so many aspects they have already kept their word and even exceeded expectations. I don't see them falling back on that statement either.

    The team at The Repopulation also actively listen to the player base and take ideas for the game from the people that are going to play the game. To me, listening to your customers is customer service. They are already setting precedence for having good customer service. As long as they set in place a system that will make that same customer service scale-able I don't see that changing any time soon.

    In Closing

    These days almost every new game has failed our expectations. What we thought the game was going to be and what it turned out being were almost two separate games. We all feel that pain right now. We're all bored.

    We've all been saying that we want a new game. Let's support one.

  • WhitebeardsWhitebeards TokyoPosts: 778Member

    When devs of the game start telling other that they are trolls or trolling, you know it is not a good sign.. lol!

     

  • AwDiddumsAwDiddums Great YarmouthPosts: 394Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Illudo

    Horribad... Guess I can add this word to my dictionary.

    On a serious note, speculation leads to a self-fulfilling prophecy. People read this topic thinking the game is bad, thus pass on it.
    Staff should not allow these topics, doom speculations based on nothing but unfundamented opinions only cause bad and unneeded publicity for a game.

    Perhaps a new forum should be created "Doom-Mongers".

    Making your mind up so far in advance of a games actual release is rather petty and short sighted.

    Ppl obviously have faith in this game otherwise it would not have raised it's capital to see further development.

    As with all MMO's that are in the pipeline it takes an act of faith in buying the game and feeling assured that you've made a wise choice, listening to some random guy spewing prophetic bile is selling yourself short and the developers.

     

  • EvelknievelEvelknievel Ehrenfeld, PAPosts: 2,977Member

    Here's my speculation to balance the thread title.

    You know why this game won't be a EPIC fail, because EA isn't involved with this game.

     

     

  • n3v3rriv3rn3v3rriv3r NowherePosts: 349Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Atrocitus

    First off, I am NOT, repeat, NOT in alpha/beta/whatever...Got it? In NO WAY HAVE I PLAYED THIS GAME YET......

     You lost some points here for credibility.

    I've seen plenty of videos of the game, listened to the 'devs' speak on the game, and have read plenty about it. Heres why this game will not only tank, but tank bigtime.....

     Not enough for such a big claim.

    Regardless of how long this 'team' of devs have been working on the game, content will be shallow. Its as simple as work force= gameplay. And they have an extremely small dev team. And we all know how fast gamers fly by content these days. There simply will not be enough to do

     This is a sandbox game. For a entertaining gameplay you dont need a lot of content. Try to play Mindcraft, created by one dev. It only needs to be creative.

    Customer service after launch will be relatively non existant. Again, with hardly any funding, how in the hell can they get a sizeable team to deal with the problems in and out of the game? And c'mon people, we all know how the first few weeks of a mmorpg go. People will be crying about tickets not being answered, bugs everywhere, blah blah blah........

     Maybe, but still this is never a reason for a game to fail. Check the history of eve online

    The game engine is horribad. Any sizable pvp will end in massive vaporlock. Once again, the almost non existant team won't be able to handle this.

    Have you seen the AI in the videos? The mobs just stand there. Period. Its comical.....

     

     The worst argument of all. Why? Because you never played the game and you cant judge the game engine.

     

    I could go on and on, but don't feel like typing any longer. Point of the matter is don't get your hopes up for this game. All signs points to sub par mmo. Once again, I have NOT participated in the game...

     

  • Skymaster123Skymaster123 Zanesville, OHPosts: 8Member

    These threads make me laugh. The original poster has made up his/her mind that he/she won't like the game and wants to tell everyone. My suggestion is to just not play it and move on. These types of posts serve no constructive purpose. 

    I have read and researched The Repopulation quite a bit after running into this game. Enough to pledge and support the game.

     

     

     

    Edit: Spelling

  • IG-88IG-88 GrandosPosts: 143Member

    I have seen many stupid posts on MMORPG.COM but this and its author really takes the prize!

     

  • FromHellFromHell NY, NYPosts: 1,311Member
    Originally posted by GwapoJosh
    Originally posted by FromHell
    Any space combat - off rails - in Repopulation?

    The devs said that they have already started sketching out the plans for space. It will be open.  It won't be in at launch though.

    awesome!!!

     

    I'm in for the ride!

    +1 for this game

    Secrets of Dragon?s Spine Trailer.. ! :D
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwT9cFVQCMw

    Best MMOs ever played: Ultima, EvE, SW Galaxies, Age of Conan, The Secret World
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2X_SbZCHpc&t=21s
    .


    .
    The Return of ELITE !
    image

  • qombiqombi Unknown, LAPosts: 1,180Member
    Originally posted by Whitebeards
    Indie game just get by  and this one will also just get by or shut down like other sandboxes. Time will tell.

    Minecraft just gets by ... I guess.

    To the original poster:

    I may take your post serious when you stop trying to form arguments with "herp/derp", "EPIC Fail", and "Terribad".

  • CreepProphetCreepProphet LiedekerkePosts: 104Member

    N3v3rriv3r and qombi, you guys totally beat me in adding Minecraft to the list.

    I mean that even has multi-player support and no quests, yet still is addictive as solid cup of Starbucks (I mentioned Starbucks because it's funny and usually breaks no TOS rules). 

    Anywho, the downside to these kinds of threads is that it tries to make a game that hasn't even launched yet look bad. That's sad.

    The upside is that more people are looking into the game because of the press, good or bad. 

    For folks that are coming onto it and like what they see, WELCOME ABOARD. 

    For folks that don't think it's their bag, hey, you're welcome to your opinion. Granted, as long as you don't mind if we give counter points to your arguments. 

    Now... 

    Back to what I SHOULD be doing, gaming.  ^^

  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIPosts: 8,275Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Atrocitus

    First off, I am NOT, repeat, NOT in alpha/beta/whatever...Got it? In NO WAY HAVE I PLAYED THIS GAME YET......

     

    I've seen plenty of videos of the game, listened to the 'devs' speak on the game, and have read plenty about it. Heres why this game will not only tank, but tank bigtime.....

     

    Regardless of how long this 'team' of devs have been working on the game, content will be shallow. Its as simple as work force= gameplay. And they have an extremely small dev team. And we all know how fast gamers fly by content these days. There simply will not be enough to do

     

    Customer service after launch will be relatively non existant. Again, with hardly any funding, how in the hell can they get a sizeable team to deal with the problems in and out of the game? And c'mon people, we all know how the first few weeks of a mmorpg go. People will be crying about tickets not being answered, bugs everywhere, blah blah blah........

     

    The game engine is horribad. Any sizable pvp will end in massive vaporlock. Once again, the almost non existant team won't be able to handle this.

    Have you seen the AI in the videos? The mobs just stand there. Period. Its comical.....

     

     

     

    I could go on and on, but don't feel like typing any longer. Point of the matter is don't get your hopes up for this game. All signs points to sub par mmo. Once again, I have NOT participated in the game...

    Depth of content > a lot of shallow content. There looks like there will be a lot of player driven systems.

     

    Cust. Service, Ok I'll give you this one. As long as there are not hacks, and a overwhelming amount of bugs. CS shouldn't be needed.

     

    The engine is bad? How do you know this. Why would you say this.  Hero 2.0 right? As long as it's not single thread like swtor (idiotic), things may be ok. It's far too early to say this.  I don't think anyone as seen a thing on Hero 2.0 yet.

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member


    Originally posted by bcbully
    Depth of content > a lot of shallow content. There looks like there will be a lot of player driven systems. Cust. Service, Ok I'll give you this one. As long as there are not hacks, and a overwhelming amount of bugs. CS shouldn't be needed. The engine is bad? How do you know this. Why would you say this.  Hero 2.0 right? As long as it's not single thread like swtor (idiotic), things may be ok. It's far too early to say this.  I don't think anyone as seen a thing on Hero 2.0 yet.

    This is their initial offering. It's going to have bugs and it's going to need customer service. There are zero MMORPG that release without some sort of customer service issues that need to be addressed.

    The upside is that the game doesn't look terribly complex. It seems to be a cookie cutter sandbox game. Plus, the Hero Engine provides a lot of back end stuff that the team will have to spend less time on, so they can spend more time on the game's features. If the game actually works, as it has been advertised, then they should be fine.

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • Marcus-Marcus- Posts: 970Member Uncommon

    Would all this be as opposed to all the MMOs that come out these days with some ridiculous amount of millions of dollars of investment, so many  devolopers that you can't swing a dead cat without hitting a good dozen of them? 

     

    And with all those devs, and that huge workforce, we still get more tokens, more 6v6 pvp, more endless gear treadmill, more linear gameplay of the same ol same ol...

     

    Imagine that, shallow gameplay.

     

    As far as sizable PvP being a massive vaporlock, well, we all know a ton of money, and "some of the most experienced developers in the world" weren't able to curb that from happening, so i guess all hope is lost for any decent MMO ever being made?

     

    I actually have more confidence in an "indie" developer pulling off a good MMO these days than the guys who consider themselves "AAA" developers. Those top notch guys seem to be stuck in some sort of "linear" developing cycle they can't break out of, its somewhat scary.

     

    Not sure if these guys are the answer, but heres to hoping.  image

  • CreepProphetCreepProphet LiedekerkePosts: 104Member
    Originally posted by Marcus-

    Would all this be as opposed to all the MMOs that come out these days with some ridiculous amount of millions of dollars of investment, so many  devolopers that you can't swing a dead cat without hitting a good dozen of them? 

     

    And with all those devs, and that huge workforce, we still get more tokens, more 6v6 pvp, more endless gear treadmill, more linear gameplay of the same ol same ol...

     

    Imagine that, shallow gameplay.

     

    As far as sizable PvP being a massive vaporlock, well, we all know a ton of money, and "some of the most experienced developers in the world" weren't able to curb that from happening, so i guess all hope is lost for any decent MMO ever being made?

     

    I actually have more confidence in an "indie" developer pulling off a good MMO these days than the guys who consider themselves "AAA" developers. Those top notch guys seem to be stuck in some sort of "linear" developing cycle they can't break out of, its somewhat scary.

     

    Not sure if these guys are the answer, but heres to hoping.  image

    That summed up a lot of what I've been thinking. Nice.

  • WhitebeardsWhitebeards TokyoPosts: 778Member
    Originally posted by qombi

    Originally posted by Whitebeards
    Indie game just get by  and this one will also just get by or shut down like other sandboxes. Time will tell.

    Minecraft just gets by ... I guess.

    To the original poster:

    I may take your post serious when you stop trying to form arguments with "herp/derp", "EPIC Fail", and "Terribad".

     

    Mine craft is a sandbox MMO now? since when?
  • Mari2kMari2k rzhz, MNPosts: 371Member

    Its easy to say that a new mmo will be an epic fail, couse alomst all mmos after wow were fails. Espacially sandbox games with a small budged.

    Well, I say that the chance for this game to last more then one year and make some profit is about 5%.

  • CreepProphetCreepProphet LiedekerkePosts: 104Member
    Originally posted by Whitebeards
    Originally posted by qombi
    Originally posted by Whitebeards
    Indie game just get by  and this one will also just get by or shut down like other sandboxes. Time will tell.

    Minecraft just gets by ... I guess.

    To the original poster:

    I may take your post serious when you stop trying to form arguments with "herp/derp", "EPIC Fail", and "Terribad".

     

    Mine craft is a sandbox MMO now? since when?

    It can be played on servers in Multi Player mode. That fits the Multi-player bit. The Massively element really depends on the tech of the server. Beefier servers can allow more players on at any one time. Though I'm not sure what the total cap is on the number of players allowable.

    Minecraft is probably more like a Mini Multiplayer Online instead of a Massively Multiplayer Online.

    From what I understand of the sandbox label it seems to fit pretty well.

  • ReklawReklaw Am.Posts: 6,476Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Atrocitus
    Originally posted by JC-Smith

    Just need to correct a few things:

    ... On Size Of the Team, or Size of the Budget

    While you can generally assume that more manpower = more production, that isn't always the case. In Repop, much of what we do is based on generated content. Once you have a good generation system in place, it allows you to be more efficient in your content creation. Rather than designing 7500 hand designed missions by hand, we focus on designing 500 templates. The templates specify the rules, item types, npc types, etc and each of those can be reused many times and each time the npcs, items, etc will be different. You can a lot things done with less people if you can automate or reuse a lot of it.

    For things like artwork, you outsource to external artists or art houses, use licensed models, etc. Those types of things would all be mentions in the credits, but they don't count as team members.  Outsourcing is generally far more efficient from a price standpoint than if you do everything in-house.

    ... On Hero Engine

    Your making a judgement on the engine based on how you saw TOR handle PvP or crowds of players. That is not a Hero Engine problem. It's a problem due to a lot of customization on the TOR models. It works fine for the situations the game was designed for most of the time (sparse player population, personal storyline, lot of soloing). It didn't work as well with a large number of players. But those are design decisions.  Had TOR had a primary focus on large scale PvP they probably would have gone in a different direction there, maybe sacrificing some customization to get it done.

    As a renderer, Hero Engine isn't on par with the likes of Unreal Tech. But it's strength isn't in its renderer. It does a lot more than that.

    ... On AI

    The last video footage was shot on the first day of ALPHA testing. You can't judge a game AI or any of its systems really based on a 2 second splice you saw in an alpha stage video. At that stage of development everything is still very much a work in progress.

    Regarding  'size of the team/budget'....

     

    So automating/reusage in quest content can allow for more content? Perhaps, but logic dictates repeating quest types will become boring after the first 30 runs.

    Questing, generally speaking, is something that players are tired of, much less repeated quest type. And it can be argued that questing is a very shallow content base. In this day and age, games are moving away from this old method of keeping players busy.

    You missed the highlighted red-part

    The templates specify the rules, item types, npc types, etc and each of those can be reused many times and each time the npcs, items, etc will be different.

    Again, in two weeks time, after players have done the requisite kill and collect quest or whatever, that type of 'content' will not add to this games allure. Same ol' same ol.....I can hear the players crying now..../shrug

    So your argument about computer generated questing giving players something to do? Doesn't hold up......There has to be content, A LOT of it to keep players after the initial launch. There simply are not enough workers to contribute to the overall game.

    Hmm seems you need to do alittle more researche, in a sandbox type of games it's mostly the players that provide the content, the crafting, the trading, exloring, harvesting. This seems to be a community type of game, not some hack and slash online combat game like many MMORPG are today.

    How you deem 'artwork' as content is beyond me.

     Regarding Hero Engine.

    Lack of customization is absolutely horrible. Players can't stand looking like the guy next to him. The only mmo that did this right was Aion. And lets face it, The Repop is no Aion when it comes to customization, or alot of other things for that matter.

    Horrible graphics, zero customization and watching a pvp slideshow will do nothing to help this game.....

     Untill a game is at open beta status I see little to no use discussing alpha state of graphics apart from official tech support forums of such game. while I don't believe in great drastic changes in graphics/animations I am certain it can become slightly better.

     

    Horrid AI? The oft repeated ITS IN ALPHA hurp/durp excuse isn't going to be enough when this game launches. You and I both know there won't be any massive upgrading in that dept before launch. Be honest.......

    I still feel this is going to be a more of a community game then it will be a follow NPC missions > reward type of game. Most likely it's the players that make the game alive instead of depending on NPC's to do just that. Which is obviously different in ThemePark MMORPG where it's the NPC's that need to make the world alive due to the limited community interaction simply because for "most" things you don't need other people in theme-park games as they play as easy as singleplayer co-op games.

     

    Customer service? You glossed over that point......Again, a small work force won't be able to handle the complaints and problems after launch.

    Your lack of a larger dev team will be mired in bug squishing eternally. If you think your launching with a lack of content, wait until two months down the road when people are wondering where the content updates are, and your still dealing with alpha bugs......

     I actually feel the smaller the dev-team the more focus there is. a hugh dev. team bring so many people with experiance together that dev 1 has great idea while dev 2 till 100 also has some great idea's. I believe that the bigger the dev-team the harder it will be to achieve certain deadlines.

     

    SImply put, this game has too many negatives going against it....../shrug

    I think it's more like: It's not the type of game you will like. Just like me or anyone else you read into things of games and spot the things you like about your gaming habbit. The Repopulation doesn't seem the game for you, I read countless of game info and there is plenty around which I don't liike.

    I am 100% sure it will FAIL.......in the eye's of those who seem to expect something different then what the game is able to offer.

    And for those who feel atracted towards what the game actually is going to offer and already offers it's a wait and see what happens cause we can't predict the future, but we have to keep expectations releastic, especially when it comes from having expectations of a indie company. When it comes to player run economy it's something for the more patient type of gamer, those who expect 1 week after release to have a great player run economy experiance will most likely be the player that isn't playing the right game for him/her.

    What I am also am certain about is that this game is targetted towards a certain niche, just like EVE, Eve isn't a mass-appeal product. It has a certain niche of gamers who enjoy the game greatly and it's considered very succesfull even though it doesn't match the might WoW subnumbers.

     

     

  • TorvalTorval Oregon CountryPosts: 7,204Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Whitebeards
    Originally posted by qombi
    Originally posted by Whitebeards
    Indie game just get by  and this one will also just get by or shut down like other sandboxes. Time will tell.

    Minecraft just gets by ... I guess.

    To the original poster:

    I may take your post serious when you stop trying to form arguments with "herp/derp", "EPIC Fail", and "Terribad".

    Mine craft is a sandbox MMO now? since when?

    I keep looking for the word "MMO" in your OP, yet I can't find it.  Saying what you mean goes a long way to communicating your point which is empty by the way.

  • MarlonBMarlonB HoensbroekPosts: 520Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Torvaldr
    Originally posted by Whitebeards
    Originally posted by qombi
    Originally posted by Whitebeards
    Indie game just get by  and this one will also just get by or shut down like other sandboxes. Time will tell.

    Minecraft just gets by ... I guess.

    To the original poster:

    I may take your post serious when you stop trying to form arguments with "herp/derp", "EPIC Fail", and "Terribad".

    Mine craft is a sandbox MMO now? since when?

    I keep looking for the word "MMO" in your OP, yet I can't find it.  Saying what you mean goes a long way to communicating your point which is empty by the way.

    The point was that a small team with little budget can make an awesome game. The "MMO" part (where was it mentioned?)  is not even relevant.

    The Repopulation - Scfi Fi Sandbox.

  • fatboy21007fatboy21007 triadelphia, WVPosts: 409Member
    and again more spoiled AAA brats, Good god you people are annoying, How in the hell are you judging a game that hasnt even released nor a friggin alpha started yet. You all complain that there needs to be more risk taking games out there. this company is a indy company and taking risks to create this game and you all havent even played it and your bashing it. Also 25 posts from op, im sorry mmorpg but that account is clearing made to do one thing.
  • EvelknievelEvelknievel Ehrenfeld, PAPosts: 2,977Member

    The Repopulation will not be a EPIC fail since EA has nothing to do with it image

    So we all now can go back to what we were playing and pretend this thread never existed, apparently the OP is talking out of arse like most negative players on any game. (However he managed to get me to post a reply image)

  • CreepProphetCreepProphet LiedekerkePosts: 104Member
    Originally posted by JR4D

    The Repopulation will not be a EPIC fail since EA has nothing to do with it image

    So we all now can go back to what we were playing and pretend this thread never existed, apparently the OP is talking out of arse like most negative players on any game. (However he managed to get me to post a reply image)

    I'm being lenient, but I'm betting the OP is another person who feels burned by a game that he/she was hoping would be better than it turned out to be.

    That can sour a person on any new games and sometimes frustrations are taken out of context. 

    Granted I'm giving a benefit of the doubt.

    I am however glad to see that not as many people share the ideas held by the OP. That is something special. 

This discussion has been closed.