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I'd like to see a system where crafting went through the entire life cycle of an item design as continuous part of the game rather than something you encounter as you level each alt up through tiers of gear.
Stage 1: players at the bleeding edge research a new tier of item prototypes. Each item's stats and appearance are actually constructed from a whole points/materials system of costs and benefits and is unique.
Stage 2: over time, as power inflation ticks on, players can teach their epic design to other master craftsmen who can reproduce it with a few less exotic resources required. It's still a non-trivial commitment of time and resources to make one of these. The bleeding-edge craftsmen move on to researching the next tier of gear to come.
Stage 3: the most popular few recipes for this tier become craftable with more generic materials ("iron" instead of "blessed, lightning-touched iron") and by ordinary craftsmen of the appropriate culture/guild. Recipes for these designs begin to become available from NPCs/loot. There's still a small commitment of time and resources, but it's not huge.
Stage 4: as item inflation continues, the item is made available from NPC merchants and/or quests request copies of the item in bulk. Item is now considered an ordinary common, is obtainable by new players and can be manufactured in bulk..
Stage 5: the item is now obsolete (below the norm for new-player gear) and appears only as junk or as a template for archelogical relics.
Sigh I really wiah we had a Galaxies like crafting system. I CANNOT believe I am not playing any MMOs currently. What a shocker. As crappy as people make Galaxies out to be, it was such a damn cool game particularly when you had an entire economy created by players who actually LOVED to make stuff.
Of course I am waxing fondly. THe game had a million flaws even pre NGE. But it was fun just the same.
Originally posted by Quizzical
If banging your head against a wall for a week trying to figure out how to craft something is your idea of complex, then Uncharted Waters Online has complex crafting. ----- The basic problem with crafting is that a large fraction of players don't like it. If every time they want better gear, they have to track down a crafter who can make it for them, they're likely to get annoyed, quit, and go play some other game where the best gear comes from mob drops or whatever. That means that a game with good crafting is likely to be populated mostly by people who like crafting and want to craft their own gear. It's hard to sell crafted gear to someone who prefers to craft his own, which means that there isn't much of a market for it. You can create artificial restrictions that make it so that a given player can only craft a handful of things himself, but how good is complex crafting if you're not allowed to touch most of it?
If banging your head against a wall for a week trying to figure out how to craft something is your idea of complex, then Uncharted Waters Online has complex crafting.
The basic problem with crafting is that a large fraction of players don't like it. If every time they want better gear, they have to track down a crafter who can make it for them, they're likely to get annoyed, quit, and go play some other game where the best gear comes from mob drops or whatever.
That means that a game with good crafting is likely to be populated mostly by people who like crafting and want to craft their own gear. It's hard to sell crafted gear to someone who prefers to craft his own, which means that there isn't much of a market for it. You can create artificial restrictions that make it so that a given player can only craft a handful of things himself, but how good is complex crafting if you're not allowed to touch most of it?
Not sure if I get you correctly. Feel free to correct me, but isnt specialization more realistic way to go? If allowing player to choose only 1 profession is artificial restriction as you mentioned, then I believe that complex crafting where you are not allowed to touch most of it is the way to go.
I find it so unrealistic when a person is a walking manufacture.
Make one person cut the tree, another person make the planks and third person build the house.
You want a horse?Find a guy that specializes in breeding animals.
The fact that there are hardly any restrictions in current MMOs is one of the problems in my eyes. Why dont MMOs try to go with realistic crafting like it would probably work in the time setting used for that MMO. I doubt there were people who were doing 10 professions and were able to make 100s of products. Furthermore, specialization would bring the community together since people would need one another. It would likely lead to urbanization. People would have a reason to build cities in order to bring various professionals together.
I described my idea of a sandbox game built around crafting in my signature, but I doubt you would want to waste your time to read that wall of text :oP
No. We won't. Not an AAA American game, anyway.
Star Wars Galaxies' crafting system should be the minimum of all crafting. However, it's more about the dollar now than it is about creating a good game. MMO depth, complexity, and innovation is devolving while marketing ploys and bs gimics are evolving. It's garbage.
The Elder Scrolls Online is not going to be any different. I don't know why some of you are so hyped up. Been there, done that.
The Repopulation will have a very engaging crafting system. Saga of Ryzom also has a very good one.
Repopulation does look like it will have a great crafting system.
If you want page long recipes with many many steps -- EQ had that over a decade ago and EVE from what i hear is sort of like that. But those are just long recipes where you gather the mats and plug the mats in.
If you want recipes where you can choose from many different mats with different characteristics and plug them into a basic recipe that has many factors affected by the different stas of the different mats used to produce a piece of equipment with different stats based on the mats used -- Ryzom has that. You can even sort of play with the system out of game as a player made a crafting simulator called "Kipee Craft" ( just google it ).
As an example -- if i was going to make a piece of Heavy Armor -- I would normally want the parry to be high so i would add mats that had good parry stats to get higher parry -- i might also try and get the mitigation vs piercing high if I knew i would be fighting Kitins a lot as they mainly use pierce attacks :: however if i was going to make Heavy Armor for PvP and was going to wield a Pike, I might want to go in dodge mode rather than parry mode so I would use high dodge mats and maybe even out mitigations or nudge up the mitigation vs slashing as most Weapon wielders use Axes or Swords. This example is pretty simplified though - its much deeper than this. High end crafters often spend weeks just working on recipes.
A not too complicated specific recipe for Heavy Armor Vest that i have used
armor shell :: 12 Supreme Tama Wood
Lining :: 12 Supreme Dung Resin
Stuffing :: 3 Supreme Koorin Oil + 5 Supreme Irin Oil
Armour Clip :: 3 Supreme Silverweed Sap + 4 Excellent Kirosta Tail
It does however take a long time to master a crafting skill line -- of Ryzoms 63 skills -- 39 are craft. For instance its not just Heavy Armor Master Skill -- Its Heavy Armor Vest Master skill -- with 6 heavy armor pieces thats 6 skills to master to be able to craft a Heavy Armor Set as best as can be done ( all else being equal ).
Ken Fisher - Semi retired old fart Network Administrator, now working in Network Security. I don't Forum PVP. If you feel I've attacked you, it was probably by accident. When I don't understand, I ask. Such is not intended as criticism.
Originally posted by FrodoFragins I don't see how a themepark game can incorporate complex and time consuming crafting. It would be great if you could get BiS gear from raids or crafting. I just don't see it working well as one path will always be the easier/faster one. If that turns out to be crafting then people wouldn't raid.
One solution for this would be to put rare crafting materials in as raid rewards. Then players would have to raid in order to generate mats for crafting in order to get raid quality gear. However, I doubt the raiders would like it.