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GW2 will be the big e-sport of 2013

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  • IPolygonIPolygon ViennaPosts: 707Member Uncommon
    Actions first, talk later. GW1 started with more pvp features (ladder, matchmaking) than GW2 and was developed by a much smaller team. Needless to say, strategy is strong in the prequel, in the sequel not so much. That many classes are bugged and outclassed by others tells a lot about how important spvp actually is. In addtion to that, pvp being improved 5 months after release is bad considering their "when it's done" excuse. The game is far from done.
  • TrysticTrystic Longwood, FLPosts: 7Member Uncommon

    Only way an mmorpg like GW2 will beat WoW in e-sports is if they can manage an impossible 1v1 balance between all the classes. Which no mmorpg has ever done and is seen as the impossible.

    The reason WoW will always lead the e-sports scene is because Blizzard also has Starcraft2, and that game along with league of legends are the mainstream competition in e-sports. And aslong as Blizzard hosts Starcraft2 championships the WoW ones will be right there with it.

    GW2 does not have any solid ground in e-sports, GW was balanced but it was not prevalent in the scene like other competitive games.

    If any mmorpg can manage to have a variety of classes and balance them in 1v1 PvP, as well as team PvP, then that mmorpg can make it easy into e-sports, but like I said, 1v1 PvP is almost impossible to balance if you want class variety. I'm honestly surprised League of Legends has made it into E-sports, which probably isn't due to it's balance, but  more due to its immense popularity and growth, just like WoW. Anyone who has played either of these games knows first hand that all the classes/champions are not balanced perfectly. So balance isn't the ONLY factor in e-sports.

  • jdnewelljdnewell Spring Hill, TNPosts: 2,150Member Uncommon
    I hope they develop it enough to actually be e-sport viable. They have a long way to go IMO.
  • eliteroelitero fremont, CAPosts: 263Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Trystic
    Only way an mmorpg like GW2 will beat WoW in e-sports is if they can manage an impossible 1v1 balance between all the classes. Which no mmorpg has ever done and is seen as the impossible.The reason WoW will always lead the e-sports scene is because Blizzard also has Starcraft2, and that game along with league of legends are the mainstream competition in e-sports. And aslong as Blizzard hosts Starcraft2 championships the WoW ones will be right there with it.GW2 does not have any solid ground in e-sports, GW was balanced but it was not prevalent in the scene like other competitive games.If any mmorpg can manage to have a variety of classes and balance them in 1v1 PvP, as well as team PvP, then that mmorpg can make it easy into e-sports, but like I said, 1v1 PvP is almost impossible to balance if you want class variety. I'm honestly surprised League of Legends has made it into E-sports, which probably isn't due to it's balance, but  more due to its immense popularity and growth, just like WoW. Anyone who has played either of these games knows first hand that all the classes/champions are not balanced perfectly. So balance isn't the ONLY factor in e-sports.


    WoW was kicked out of e-sport a long time ago buddy =P

  • GreyhooffGreyhooff New York, NYPosts: 654Member
    Originally posted by Trystic

    Only way an mmorpg like GW2 will beat WoW in e-sports is if they can manage an impossible 1v1 balance between all the classes. Which no mmorpg has ever done and is seen as the impossible.

    The reason WoW will always lead the e-sports scene is because Blizzard also has Starcraft2, and that game along with league of legends are the mainstream competition in e-sports. And aslong as Blizzard hosts Starcraft2 championships the WoW ones will be right there with it.

    GW2 does not have any solid ground in e-sports, GW was balanced but it was not prevalent in the scene like other competitive games.

    If any mmorpg can manage to have a variety of classes and balance them in 1v1 PvP, as well as team PvP, then that mmorpg can make it easy into e-sports, but like I said, 1v1 PvP is almost impossible to balance if you want class variety. I'm honestly surprised League of Legends has made it into E-sports, which probably isn't due to it's balance, but  more due to its immense popularity and growth, just like WoW. Anyone who has played either of these games knows first hand that all the classes/champions are not balanced perfectly. So balance isn't the ONLY factor in e-sports.

     

    WoW is not an esport and never will be, people in the e-sports community laugh at wow players. Even Blizzard has given up on trying to make it an esport.

    WoW's top players are still scrounging for $1 donations on twitch and the only people who care are other wow players, there are no professional arena PVPers.

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  • FromHellFromHell NY, NYPosts: 1,311Member
    [mod edit]

     

    Never will buy anthing again before they dare to release a trial, lesson learned

    Secrets of Dragon?s Spine Trailer.. ! :D
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwT9cFVQCMw

    Best MMOs ever played: Ultima, EvE, SW Galaxies, Age of Conan, The Secret World
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2X_SbZCHpc&t=21s
    .


    .
    The Return of ELITE !
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  • IcewhiteIcewhite Elmhurst, ILPosts: 6,403Member
    Originally posted by Toxia

    I wish they would stick to this, and stop changing everything for the sake of their PvP. They certainly seem more interested in PVP balance than PVE balance, which never go hand in hand.

    Which, given the history of their company, is not terribly surprising.

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  • GreyhooffGreyhooff New York, NYPosts: 654Member
    Originally posted by FromHell
    Originally posted by Enerzeal
    What a joke, Guild Wars 2 is dying out, it will not sustain its player base, it will not survive, it is not the second coming.

    ^

    sadly this.

    Never will buy anthing again before they dare to release a trial, lesson learned

     

    Except for this of course, taken last night

     

    Some people are starting to sound like EQ players when WoW came out.

    Time to face it, GW2 is doing very well.

    image

  • IndromeIndrome NortheimPosts: 292Member

    Loved how in the first few minutes they didn't really have anything to talk about. Judging by that it seems a lot of the game is fine the way it currently is.

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  • JayarisJayaris InvercargillPosts: 308Member

    Honestly don't know why people think, or want MMORPG's like this to be E-Sports. There is simply just not enough viewer clarity, which limits the viewerbase to people who play the game - Shit like MOBA's and RTS can at least be very superficially understood without a thousand spell effects over the screen.

    Until MMORPG's have proper physics based combat, they should be left out of the E-Sports arena entirely.

    Hi

  • PurutzilPurutzil East Stroudsburg, PAPosts: 2,924Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Greyhooff

     

    Except for this of course, taken last night

     

    Some people are starting to sound like EQ players when WoW came out.

    Time to face it, GW2 is doing very well.

    Yeah... provide the text saying "Full' on a value that can be set to anything you want really shows the game is doing 'well'. I doubt its failing horribly but when you put pictures up showing a game is doing good showing population listed by text that can be determined anyway the game design wants, you show you have no clue at all about what your talking about.

     

    Heck, my game right now is full. I'd list at full right now. I'm only playing a single player game but heck I consider 1 player to be full so thats what it will be!

     

    No, I doubt GW2 is going through a mass extinction but no, posting stupid picture like that as 'proof' it isn't is just as stupid.

  • KuppaKuppa Boulder, COPosts: 3,292Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by IPolygon
    Actions first, talk later. GW1 started with more pvp features (ladder, matchmaking) than GW2 and was developed by a much smaller team. Needless to say, strategy is strong in the prequel, in the sequel not so much. That many classes are bugged and outclassed by others tells a lot about how important spvp actually is. In addtion to that, pvp being improved 5 months after release is bad considering their "when it's done" excuse. The game is far from done.

    There is actually a ton of strategy in GW2, just not in randoms. Which was the same case in GW1.

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  • KuppaKuppa Boulder, COPosts: 3,292Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by bcbully
    Originally posted by Freezzo
    Originally posted by dreamsofwar
    I can't see GW2 being bigger than League of Legends or Starcraft.

    snip..

    1. A good metagame. There have to be possibilities of new and exciting builds or strategies able to counter opponents or do something so radically different and work that there's constant discussions on topics like that. You need depth for those playing at the top level and those interested in it. I can't really comment on GW2 in this regard (as I haven't gotten into spvp yet), but as far as I've seen the setup of the skills/traits works great for this and I do enjoy reading about it already.
     
     

    This is the one that is and will be the problem. There are no Magic Boxes, 4 gate DT rushes,  6 pool rushes or the equivalents in GW2.  It's pretty much what you see is what you get. There may be different ways to split up and occupy nodes, but that's about the breath of it atm.

     

    If GW2 had the TSW ability wheel (I would still be pvp'n in GW2), now we'd be talking, or even if there were slotable options for you main abilities. As things stand right now, this is the catagory that's most wanting atm.

     

    One more thing. There is something about the deathmatch style that WoW arena gives that GW2's dominations just can't offer. I think it's the pressure and thrill of doing everything right, and the fear of making mistakes that will kill you team and rating.

    There are many "Magic Boxes" and I would believe most haven't been tried. I know you stopped playing the game bc so you probably wouldn't know.

     

    The ability wheel is not really designed to support esports. You probably know that. It's impossible to get even remotely close to balanced because it's way wide open. Again, look at LoL. You only get 4 abilities, that's it. Look at SC2, while other RTS games have many races it only has 3. Simplicity in options is vital for a stable meta in an esports game.

     

    Have no clue what you are talking about in your last one. The same thing applies on the GW2 matches, specifically tournament ones...

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  • eliteroelitero fremont, CAPosts: 263Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Purutzil
    Originally posted by Greyhooff  I also hear Obama is a reptilian from another dimension who wants to mentally enslave the human race to steal all the gold from earth. Make sure to keep your tin foil hat on.
    Did the GW2 devs say that? They do say a lot of stuff to convince ignorant people like you to follow them blindly. :) 

    That or maybe I am to paranoid. So when SWTOR did it (as a recent example) It wasn't just them adjusting values but the facts! Oh my how ignorant of me to try and use my brain instead of blindly following what a company says in order to build a posative image! Woah is me for being so stupid. 

    Thank you for showing me the error in my ways, obviously not bias guy who has nothing worth of value for proof to shove random insults that make 0 sense in order to defend a game they are a rabid manboy for! I could swear talking with you has vastly increased my intelegence in how enlightening your response back was. 



    Damn where did Anet touch you again?

  • nastyjmannastyjman New York, NYPosts: 161Member

    So what does everyone think of having Arenanet offering Free-to-Play on PvP only? PvE and WvW will only be accessible for those who purchase the game. I think having PvP as F2P would help get the momentum of GW2's eSports viability once it establishes the core basics for eSports (ranking, spectator mode, replays).

  • GreyhooffGreyhooff New York, NYPosts: 654Member
    Originally posted by nastyjman

    So what does everyone think of having Arenanet offering Free-to-Play on PvP only? PvE and WvW will only be accessible for those who purchase the game. I think having PvP as F2P would help get the momentum of GW2's eSports viability once it establishes the core basics for eSports (ranking, spectator mode, replays).

     

    Pretty good idea I think, suggest it next time they have one of these developer discussion things, they seem to do them a lot

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  • FaelsunFaelsun Brandon, MSPosts: 492Member
    Originally posted by cronius77
    i would seriously love to see how they can take probably one of the worst scanario based pvp systems out on the market today and turn it into Esports. Random teams even if you are in a group and bland scanarios with no point to pvp just ninja capping. I seriously do not understand the hype behind this title , their pvp is a step backwards not forward. I could even see Rift pvp being a better Esport than this . Please someone explain to me how this game could ever be esport as i would love to know because i love pvp.

    LOL I know, like skill cap has anything to do with it. IF oversimplified smammy nonsense made good E-Sports, then internet Pong and Atari Tanks would be the top E-sport games out there today. And Atari tanks was more fun because you could at least change it up and use bouncy balls.I know plenty of pvpers who didn't leave because GW2 was too hard, if anything GW2 is too easy, its not demanding at all, you dont have to think about your spec, or swing timers and all that good stuff, or even cast times, its just spammy nonsense, it takes about as much skill as Street Fighter.

     

    How are they going to take the most Boring and underwhelming pvp on earth and make it popular is step one, then how to make that boring pvp an E sport, ,..... Whatever I don't see it.

  • SirFubarSirFubar SeoulPosts: 397Member
    Originally posted by Faelsun
    Originally posted by cronius77
    i would seriously love to see how they can take probably one of the worst scanario based pvp systems out on the market today and turn it into Esports. Random teams even if you are in a group and bland scanarios with no point to pvp just ninja capping. I seriously do not understand the hype behind this title , their pvp is a step backwards not forward. I could even see Rift pvp being a better Esport than this . Please someone explain to me how this game could ever be esport as i would love to know because i love pvp.

    LOL I know, like skill cap has anything to do with it. IF oversimplified smammy nonsense made good E-Sports, then internet Pong and Atari Tanks would be the top E-sport games out there today. And Atari tanks was more fun because you could at least change it up and use bouncy balls.I know plenty of pvpers who didn't leave because GW2 was too hard, if anything GW2 is too easy, its not demanding at all, you dont have to think about your spec, or swing timers and all that good stuff, or even cast times, its just spammy nonsense, it takes about as much skill as Street Fighter.

     

    How are they going to take the most Boring and underwhelming pvp on earth and make it popular is step one, then how to make that boring pvp an E sport, ,..... Whatever I don't see it.

    So you're a top player who can beat every single team out there in sPvP tournament? Yeah that's what I taught... Just look at LoL, the game is a thousand time more easy to play than GW2 and yet its an eSport. Your argument is invalid. Also no, the most boring and underwhelming pvp on earth would be MOBA's.

  • Sovren1Sovren1 camarillo, CAPosts: 312Member


    Originally posted by IPolygon
    Actions first, talk later. GW1 started with more pvp features (ladder, matchmaking) than GW2 and was developed by a much smaller team. Needless to say, strategy is strong in the prequel, in the sequel not so much. That many classes are bugged and outclassed by others tells a lot about how important spvp actually is. In addtion to that, pvp being improved 5 months after release is bad considering their "when it's done" excuse. The game is far from done.


    I have to agree with you here. GW1 had the better setup when it comes to strat and tools.

    I have no idea why many of things that were successful in Gw1 didn't make the crossover.

    GvG to me kinda demostrates how a structered team based environment should work for pvp. It was often you would see new team builds. Each team kind of had what you would see in a real sports game. A frontline, a midline and a backline. Team coordination was all the more better because of death penelties. It was difficult getting back to those healers so you had to wear the other team down. A front line of characters who kind of blocked and soaked up damage, applied pressure, a mid line usually made up of damage dealers and support, and a backline of healers and support. There weren't 1-2 shot kills, there were team spikes where you might get a kill. There were interupts, poison and burning that actually mattered, there were enchantments and enchantment rippers and the list goes on. You could actually see what someone was casting.

    Not sure if lack of strat is because of no healers, lack of builds and usable skills, lack of death penalty, too much damage or what, but it feels like chaos.

    I think WvW kind of glances upon the whole frontline midline backline thing. When you see two groups engage each other you sorta see a clear middle ground between the two groups. Then you see a sort of triangle behind you.

    New game is chaotic with no true strat to be designed. It's fun for me but I do recognize the flaw of the chosen gw2 direction. Build Wars for me was a shiny gem that probably will go down for me as one of the best balanced pvp games of all time.


    As far Gw2 becoming and e-sport, I don't see it with sPvP yet. There needs to be a different mode other than conquest that has some real penalties in match. Inside tpvp maybe a little different, but glory farming in spvp can get kinda mindless.

    o. t. GvG needs to enter the picture.

  • darkrain21darkrain21 philadelphia, PAPosts: 274Member
    I dont think it will, no one really gives a crap right now and GW2 has been one of the lowest watched stations on twitch.tv even when it launched. Except for its community GW2 isnt going to grow anymore. Just imho.
  • grimalgrimal Stamford, CTPosts: 2,873Member Uncommon

    I just don't see it happening.

    GW2 is most certainly not GW1.

    I'd be willing to wager money that GW2 will not be the big e-sport of 2013.

  • HrimnirHrimnir Qeynos, COPosts: 1,597Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Greyhooff

    If this open, unscripted discussion with the developers is anything to go by:

     

     

    GW2 is set for huge e-sport success.

    They are very clear that they are not rushing it, but the announced balance changes, the pacing of changes, the way they are approaching their PVP game is fantastic.

    I also LOVED the fact that this guy says clearly that some noobs just need to L2P. That kind of frankness only comes from someone who plays the game extensively himself, a developer who is also a competitive player = awesome.

    No bullcrap, no marketing spin, just a skilled PVP developer with opinions and ideas who is open about discussing with the players.

    You can tell this guy really cares about balance and competitive gaming above all, and that's exactly what you want.

    Let's face it, PVP in other MMOs like SWTOR, WoW, Aion, AOC, etc is a joke. No one takes it seriously, and no MMO has e-sport PVP. It's too unbalanced.

    GW2 has a very good chance at it because it's already the most balanced MMO, and about to become even more balanced in every little detail.

    I think that with the mindset displayed in the video, they might have the biggest esport game of 2013. 

    Anyway, just watch it in full and make up your own mind.

    I need to figure out what they're smoking, cus it must be some seriously good shit if they think that GW2 is going to be anywhere near a major player in e-sports.

    "The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."

    - Friedrich Nietzsche

  • Vunak23Vunak23 In your house eatin'' your cookies, FLPosts: 635Member

    MMO PvP E-Sports is a joke in general. You can't balance the game all that well when you have to keep PvE in mind. 

     

    Definately when your lead is a Marine Biologist... Trolololol

    "In the immediate future, we have this one, and then we’ve got another one that is actually going to be – so we’re going to have, what we want to do, is in January, what we’re targeting to do, this may or may not happen, so you can’t hold me to it. But what we’re targeting to do, is have a fun anniversary to the Ilum shenanigans that happened. An alien race might invade, and they might crash into Ilum and there might be some new activities that happen on the planet." ~Gabe Amatangelo

  • saurus123saurus123 nonePosts: 568Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Vunak23

    MMO PvP E-Sports is a joke in general. You can't balance the game all that well when you have to keep PvE in mind. 

     

    Definately when your lead is a Marine Biologist... Trolololol

    i see you didnt played gw1

     

    same skills had different effect in pve and pvp

    http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/List_of_PvE_and_PvP_versions_of_skills

    and its easier to balance builds in gw2 than in gw1

     

    its not WoW or other wow clone where 90% victory chance is based on gear

  • Vunak23Vunak23 In your house eatin'' your cookies, FLPosts: 635Member
    Originally posted by saurus123
    Originally posted by Vunak23

    MMO PvP E-Sports is a joke in general. You can't balance the game all that well when you have to keep PvE in mind. 

     

    Definately when your lead is a Marine Biologist... Trolololol

    i see you didnt played gw1

     

    same skills had different effect in pve and pvp

    http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/List_of_PvE_and_PvP_versions_of_skills

    and its easier to balance builds in gw2 than in gw1

     

    its not WoW or other wow clone where 90% victory chance is based on gear

    Actually I was in one of the top guilds in GW1.. We were ranked #2 world wide for a long while. Yes GW1 had a great design scheme around balancing PvP. 

    I haven't seen any games do that since GW1 though. Unless thats what they are planning to do then its a joke to try and call MMO E-Sports anything other then a joke. If they are more power to them. But its not the best design, as you have to relearn a class/skill/build when you do that to your players. 

    "In the immediate future, we have this one, and then we’ve got another one that is actually going to be – so we’re going to have, what we want to do, is in January, what we’re targeting to do, this may or may not happen, so you can’t hold me to it. But what we’re targeting to do, is have a fun anniversary to the Ilum shenanigans that happened. An alien race might invade, and they might crash into Ilum and there might be some new activities that happen on the planet." ~Gabe Amatangelo

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