What surprises me is that NCSoft is all of a sudden a "shitty" company because they closed CoH. I mean, they aren't the best, but no MMO gamer doesn't know the name. NCSoft has served as a decent gateway for most to get onto the online gaming scene. CoH was my first MMO. I enjoyed it, and it still is my favorite MMO. I'm sad it's gone, but decisions are made whether you should respect them or not.
All these movements just to hurt NCSoft is not only retarded, but is selfish. Seriously, how can anyone be so hypocritical? They lose their game and care nothing about people playing current NCSoft games, and wants them to suffer.
NCSoft has already lost money closing CoH. A price to pay. What MORE do you want? Bankrupcy? Pathethic. Any kind of vengeance sparked from the game's closure contradicts the claim that City of Heroes held one of the best communities in an MMO. Hell, I still wanna believe it. But just because the game is gone doesn't mean you should lose face. Unless you're saying the game influences how you act? Puppetry.
Find a new home. There will never be another CoH. Nothing you do or say will bring it back. Boycotting NCSoft will not get rid of the pain, nor will it avenge CoH. What NCSoft did wasn't wrong, and all of you are just being big babies about it all, and I'm disgusted. I don't know ANY of you anymore. I really didn't think you guys were serious, but for you to make a website specificly to boycott a company, let alone a Korean company? What the HELL is the matter with you?!
If NCSoft didn't care about the West, then why in the hell should it matter if Western fans boycott? Right, it's all just a waste of time. It's like boycotting McDonald's for making you obese. Not only do they not give a damn, your efforts sure as hell won't give way.
Believe it or not, City of Heroes failed to deliver. You can bring up the "CoH was still making money!" hoo-haw all you want, but as a company, sacrifices must be met in order to prepare for greater profitable measures.
Take your ass to the Titan Network and help develop a successor rather than wasting your time telling everyone how bad NCSoft is.
It is not about City of Heroes. NC Soft do not care about the NA/EU market at all.
They are heading to bankruptcy with or without a boycott, but hopefully a boycott will make them wake up, and change their ways, and prevent them heading into bankruptcy and laying off staff. If COH was about saving money, then that failed when MORE staff just got layed off.
At the end of the day I do not have any confidence in playing any NC Soft MMOs, as what they do makes no sense. Playing their games now is just a waste of time and money.
How is NCSoft going to bankruptcy? If you are talking about the lower amount of revenue, all the game publishers are having the same issue. That is a non-starter argument. Remember they make more money in Korea and the Far East than they do here.
All games are really a waste of time and money - that is the point. I mean, entertainment is supposed to do that.
What surprises me is that NCSoft is all of a sudden a "shitty" company because they closed CoH. I mean, they aren't the best, but no MMO gamer doesn't know the name. NCSoft has served as a decent gateway for most to get onto the online gaming scene. CoH was my first MMO. I enjoyed it, and it still is my favorite MMO. I'm sad it's gone, but decisions are made whether you should respect them or not.
All these movements just to hurt NCSoft is not only retarded, but is selfish. Seriously, how can anyone be so hypocritical? They lose their game and care nothing about people playing current NCSoft games, and wants them to suffer.
NCSoft has already lost money closing CoH. A price to pay. What MORE do you want? Bankrupcy? Pathethic. Any kind of vengeance sparked from the game's closure contradicts the claim that City of Heroes held one of the best communities in an MMO. Hell, I still wanna believe it. But just because the game is gone doesn't mean you should lose face. Unless you're saying the game influences how you act? Puppetry.
Find a new home. There will never be another CoH. Nothing you do or say will bring it back. Boycotting NCSoft will not get rid of the pain, nor will it avenge CoH. What NCSoft did wasn't wrong, and all of you are just being big babies about it all, and I'm disgusted. I don't know ANY of you anymore. I really didn't think you guys were serious, but for you to make a website specificly to boycott a company, let alone a Korean company? What the HELL is the matter with you?!
If NCSoft didn't care about the West, then why in the hell should it matter if Western fans boycott? Right, it's all just a waste of time. It's like boycotting McDonald's for making you obese. Not only do they not give a damn, your efforts sure as hell won't give way.
Believe it or not, City of Heroes failed to deliver. You can bring up the "CoH was still making money!" hoo-haw all you want, but as a company, sacrifices must be met in order to prepare for greater profitable measures.
Take your ass to the Titan Network and help develop a successor rather than wasting your time telling everyone how bad NCSoft is.
I think you're missing the point. As much as I personally think, as well as many others on these forums might agree, that NCSoft does indeed owe me something is beside all this. We live in an age that when big companies burn groups of people, online information sharing makes it possible to hold those companies accountable. I believe all these gents and gals are trying to do is educate the more general MMO audience regarding their experience with them.
What surprises me is that NCSoft is all of a sudden a "shitty" company because they closed CoH. I mean, they aren't the best, but no MMO gamer doesn't know the name. NCSoft has served as a decent gateway for most to get onto the online gaming scene. CoH was my first MMO. I enjoyed it, and it still is my favorite MMO. I'm sad it's gone, but decisions are made whether you should respect them or not.
All these movements just to hurt NCSoft is not only retarded, but is selfish. Seriously, how can anyone be so hypocritical? They lose their game and care nothing about people playing current NCSoft games, and wants them to suffer.
NCSoft has already lost money closing CoH. A price to pay. What MORE do you want? Bankrupcy? Pathethic. Any kind of vengeance sparked from the game's closure contradicts the claim that City of Heroes held one of the best communities in an MMO. Hell, I still wanna believe it. But just because the game is gone doesn't mean you should lose face. Unless you're saying the game influences how you act? Puppetry.
Find a new home. There will never be another CoH. Nothing you do or say will bring it back. Boycotting NCSoft will not get rid of the pain, nor will it avenge CoH. What NCSoft did wasn't wrong, and all of you are just being big babies about it all, and I'm disgusted. I don't know ANY of you anymore. I really didn't think you guys were serious, but for you to make a website specificly to boycott a company, let alone a Korean company? What the HELL is the matter with you?!
If NCSoft didn't care about the West, then why in the hell should it matter if Western fans boycott? Right, it's all just a waste of time. It's like boycotting McDonald's for making you obese. Not only do they not give a damn, your efforts sure as hell won't give way.
Believe it or not, City of Heroes failed to deliver. You can bring up the "CoH was still making money!" hoo-haw all you want, but as a company, sacrifices must be met in order to prepare for greater profitable measures.
Take your ass to the Titan Network and help develop a successor rather than wasting your time telling everyone how bad NCSoft is.
It is not about City of Heroes. NC Soft do not care about the NA/EU market at all.
They are heading to bankruptcy with or without a boycott, but hopefully a boycott will make them wake up, and change their ways, and prevent them heading into bankruptcy and laying off staff. If COH was about saving money, then that failed when MORE staff just got layed off.
At the end of the day I do not have any confidence in playing any NC Soft MMOs, as what they do makes no sense. Playing their games now is just a waste of time and money.
How is NCSoft going to bankruptcy? If you are talking about the lower amount of revenue, all the game publishers are having the same issue. That is a non-starter argument. Remember they make more money in Korea and the Far East than they do here.
All games are really a waste of time and money - that is the point. I mean, entertainment is supposed to do that.
I said they are heading to bankruptcy. That does not mean they will go bankrupt, it all depends on what they do to save themselves, but so far they are not doing a good job, as thie revenue is still going down, despite closing COH, and laying off staff. If their revnue keeps going down, you will probably see more NA/EU game closures first, before bankruptcy
Games are not a total waste of time, eg they can enhance your thinking and observation of stuff around you, and various other things.
When MMOs shut down it makes your time a waste especially if you do not get all out of it what you want. If MMOs are meant to last years, and in the end they do not, then you are left with an incomplete feeling. If you buy a single player offline game then you can play as much, or as little, as you want, until it satisfies you, but MMOs can take away that satisfaction when they shut down. Most people start MMOs when they first release, but some start playing them a week or a month before a shutdown and no way would have gotten all the game has to offer, and when a game is doing well, it makes playing other games more wary.
Without this boycott I would have boycotted NC soft anyway and permanently, and done so in silence. Now there is a public Boycott, then there could be a chance they can do something about it, and not be so quick to shut down games again, and I will more likely play NC soft games again
You know what boycotting NCsoft will do? It would put more of their games and the developer's jobs on the lines. So you go ahead and pretend you're doing good.
The problem here is with us in the West and I mean both the EU and US market. We're being overshadowed by the Asian market. It doesn't likely matter from their perspective that the games they shutdown might have operated in the black, the fact is none of them, including CoH, have the kind of numbers that Lineage, Aion, B&S, and their other games have, none of them. By comparison to their successful Asian numbers all the Western market games were essentially failures.
While this may be true, I still find it silly that any company would kill a game that is turning a profit, no matter how small. City of Heroes was contributing to profits, not taking away from them. Just my 2 cents, but I would rather have that 6% of the revenue stream continue than just toss it aside and not have it at all.
The problem here is with us in the West and I mean both the EU and US market. We're being overshadowed by the Asian market. It doesn't likely matter from their perspective that the games they shutdown might have operated in the black, the fact is none of them, including CoH, have the kind of numbers that Lineage, Aion, B&S, and their other games have, none of them. By comparison to their successful Asian numbers all the Western market games were essentially failures.
While this may be true, I still find it silly that any company would kill a game that is turning a profit, no matter how small. City of Heroes was contributing to profits, not taking away from them. Just my 2 cents, but I would rather have that 6% of the revenue stream continue than just toss it aside and not have it at all.
It happens all the time. look at when GM got rid of Pontiac, Oldsmobile and Saturn and kept Buick (the previous 2 were doing better (each of them had more sales individually) than Buick in the US but Buick was doing massively well in China - read WORLDS BIGGEST MARKET). IF CoH was only doing well in the US, a small market and not at all in the Far East, this may have been the lynch pin for the decision. We are not privy to what happens in these companies nor can we guess, as much as we would like to.
It is folly and very niave to say, turning a profit, no matter what is important. We don't know what is really important to NCSoft, at least I don't. I am not a fan boy or any thing like that, I am just trying to be realistic in this situation.
It is great that people have picked this to be 'the line in the sand' problem to deal with. I am more worried about the 'Fiscal Cliff' and the economy, than a video game. After all you can't eat a video game, well you could (the packaging) and I bet it desn't taste good but, you need a job to get the video games.
The problem here is with us in the West and I mean both the EU and US market. We're being overshadowed by the Asian market. It doesn't likely matter from their perspective that the games they shutdown might have operated in the black, the fact is none of them, including CoH, have the kind of numbers that Lineage, Aion, B&S, and their other games have, none of them. By comparison to their successful Asian numbers all the Western market games were essentially failures.
While this may be true, I still find it silly that any company would kill a game that is turning a profit, no matter how small. City of Heroes was contributing to profits, not taking away from them. Just my 2 cents, but I would rather have that 6% of the revenue stream continue than just toss it aside and not have it at all.
If you had workers/materials/administration making widgets that returned x profit, but you could move them to your line of foos and get 4x profit from their output, would you still make widgets or would you restructure to make bank on foos?
This is really basic business stuff here. Despite how elementary most of this is, I'm quite sure someone is going to reply with the answer that they should keep making widgets and hire more people to make foos.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
This is really basic business stuff here. Despite how elementary most of this is, I'm quite sure someone is going to reply with the answer that they should keep making widgets and hire more people to make foos.
But staying with the widgets would be a sound business strategy. You would be keeping a solid foundation you know is making you money that you can fall back on in the event the foos do not work out.
I do understand what you are saying though. There have been games in development in the past that never saw the light of day because they realized they would never "pull in the WoW numbers".
This is really basic business stuff here. Despite how elementary most of this is, I'm quite sure someone is going to reply with the answer that they should keep making widgets and hire more people to make foos.
But staying with the widgets would be a sound business strategy. You would be keeping a solid foundation you know is making you money that you can fall back on in the event the foos do not work out.
I do understand what you are saying though. There have been games in development in the past that never saw the light of day because they realized they would never "pull in the WoW numbers".
And you still replied with it... even throwing in the "pull in the WoW numbers" strawman for extra effect. How are you a NYer and this is foreign to you? This makes me sad in the pants.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
The entire premsie of this discussion is precluded by the following reality:
NCSoft is a FOR PROFIT company, accountable to and working for the benefit of its shareholder.
I really don't understand why that needs to be repeated so often; I can only presume that people genuinely don't understand or comprehend how the system works.
If a game is profitable, and by profitable we're not just talking "makes a bit of money", then NCSoft is going to throw its weight behind it. Guild Wars 2, for example, was not the success that NCSoft were hoping for (it also wasn't a failure, by any measure), but they're pushing resources towards ArenaNet in order to bolster the chances that it can shore up the foothold it has managed to attain, in the hopes that it WILL be the success they were hoping for in the future. It's a smart move; Guild Wars 2 is a new product, easier to maintain and update, and easier to monetise.
City of Heroes/Villains was a near-decade old title that was making very little money for NCSoft. NCSoft have never suggested that it was a straight up loss making venture, because it wasn't; they HAVE suggested that the return was too low for them to support it in the long run, and that their internal projections demonstrated that the title (and service) was unsustainable. There are a myriad of reasons for the closure of City of Heroes, but the decision was - regardless of the protests - perfectly reasonable and sound from a profit making point of view.
That decision clearly wasn't taken lightly; for over a year, NCSoft gave Paragon Studious the chance (and the backing) to turn the title around. They even invested in the development of City of X 2. When it came time to look at what Paragon had done to reinvigorate the playerbase, NCSoft saw that things weren't going in the direction they had hoped. Again, the decision was reasonable.
What happens now with City of X is up in the air. NCSoft were licensing the engine behind the game from Cryptic, which certainly came with financial and contractual burdens that we as consumers are not aware of. Cryptic do not usually license their engine externally, and the license to NCSoft was probably a one off (a concession granted only due to Cryptic needing cash to finish STO and Champions). With Perfect World now in control of that technology, it's even less likely that the engine would be licensed to a new company if NCSoft were to sell the franchise on. It's just speculation, but that's how it appears externally. NCSoft may want to sell the franchise - and the game - but if they're not allowed to transfer their engine license to the new owners (and presuming Cryptic would not license the engine to a new owner under new terms), the game loses near-all value, the game assets are uselss, and the game itself would have to be abandoned anyway. Again, it seems reasonable, as Cryptic stands to gain from the loss of CoX.
So why would NCSoft not discuss this with the players? Again, business. It's probable that Cryptic and NCSoft are not allowed to discuss any negotiations (or attempts at negotiation). If this is the case and NCSoft were to openly discuss the issues currently plaquing the operation, sale or licensing of the game or franchise to another company... Cryptic/Perfect World would not hesitate to sue them. Considering NCSofts current financial woes... why would they want to risk that?
This "boycott NCSoft" venture is pathetic, because it's a venture based on ignorance. A group of people who lack the ability to consider the issue in an informed manner have banded together to express misplaced anger at the cost of a company. The claims they make are spurious at best; they charge NCSoft with "bad business practices", but the only evidence they provide for this attack is that NCSoft shut down the games they liked. No self-respecting consumer-orientated company is going to do this, but... NCSoft should just sue whoever set that movement up for slander... because that's what it is ;D
As you may have noticed, I've opted to quote your "profile quote". I see some irony there.
You won't crusade against NCsoft even though they shut down a game you loved, Tabula Rasa, that was also making money, yet you appear to be carrying on a personal crusade against SOE. That little quote shows up alongside all 2000+ of your posts. It doesn't really take that much to make a stand, now does it? ( ' :
Edit: Just want to clarify one thing. I'm not saying you should join us crusading against NCsoft just because you have something against SOE -- hopefully that is obvious. It's just that, clearly you have a (however small) personal crusade against SOE, so why would you speak against one organizing against NCsoft? That's all. ( ' :
HA HA HA. You got a fair point there. But when I look at NCSoft and what they've done to only 1 game I used to play very short (Tabula Rasa) and what they gave in return (Aion digital deluxe), I think they made me a good deal. Also I have played Lineage II for 4 years as subscriber and I left because the latest expansion (Goddess of Destruction, or rather whath L3 would have been) just was not my cup of tea.
But when I look at $O€ and how they ruin games with their F2P conversion by making game totally unplayable, even after having bought their game (EQ, EQ2, VG - all unplavable for me now), the expansions and all, and as Free player your characters are simply ruined, or in worse case totally not playable, then I think a grudge against $O€ is more in place than one against NCSoft (for me that is).
None the less, I think the way I feel about $O€ and the reason for their decision on F2P and crippling my accounts (and forcing me into sub if I want to play my characters) is quite the same to those who played TR for a long time, and now the CoX players as well. It just sucks when your (favorite) game gets shutdown or becomes unplayable one way or the other. Sadly, NCSoft indeed is one to shut down MMOs more than once the last 5 years...
You're wrong about the being in red, but they could shut it down tomorrow. I got my money out of it.
But you're wrong again that they will shut it down tomorrow because it's being used as a marketing gimmick for GW2. Still it doesn't matter because there is no guarantee. Do you realize how bitter and horrible it sounds when you try and push your bitter fears onto other gamers in hopes they too can share your misery? If the CoH crowd won't be happy until noone else is unhappy then you will truly be a lonely crowd. People at least felt bad for the SWG folks and they didn't take it out on the rest of us.
Burning books is not wrong, i already read those, destroying a park to make a parking lot isnt bad, im already old enough to not want to play on it. Raping my sister? go ahead, i never liked her much anyway.
Such apathy, "i dont care, it doesnt touch ME", but it was important for a lot of people. and what you felt for the SWG was not "bad", you felt pity, and thats awful. CoH players hate to be seen as victims, they played super heroes for years, and now they want to make a stand.
Killing the get away place for tens of thousands of people just because its not making as much money as they would like is wrong. Firing people just because they are not koreans is wrong.
Do you even know how many families that game brought together? how many people saw an improvement in their lives thanks to this casual family friendly game.
When you pour time money and energy into anything and someone comes and takes it away because it doesnt really like it, because it feels that its not needed, with no real reason, you HAVE to do something. Because what does it say about you if you dont?
Played CoH for 3 months, and made a bunch of friends and had a blast, cant imagine what it mustve been like for people that spent 8 years of their lives relaxing in that game, for people that met their couple there. so many people actually crying on the last day, they loved that thing with all their hearth, and NCsoft broke it, because it wasnt making as much money as they thought it should.
Im not here because it broke my heart, didnt play long enough for that to happen, but the thought of what NCsoft did sickens me. And if you really understood what they did it would sicken you too.
And you still replied with it... even throwing in the "pull in the WoW numbers" strawman for extra effect. How are you a NYer and this is foreign to you? This makes me sad in the pants.
Huh? Your reply does not make much sense. Most businesses do have and maintain a core product/service that they will keep in order to maintain a steady revenue stream. This is not rocket science. Perhaps start your own business sometime and you will gain a better perspective.
I am not going to say NCSoft should keep CoH going. It is their property and they can do with it as they want and there is not much anyone can do about it. Would I have liked to have seen it continue? Sure. Am I going to cry over it, no.
Can someone link to something that shows they were making a profit on this game? I have seen this repeated over and over but I've never seen anything that backs this up. There is a link near the beginning of this thread that said the game was pulling in about 2.76 million dollars a quarter, which would be about 900,000 a month. How many devs did they have? How much did it cost to lease/maintain whatever property they were located on? How much did they have to pay in taxes? I've not seen any information on this. If they downsized and essentially put it on lifesupport would it still have pulled in the same amount?
And you still replied with it... even throwing in the "pull in the WoW numbers" strawman for extra effect. How are you a NYer and this is foreign to you? This makes me sad in the pants.
Huh? Your reply does not make much sense. Most businesses do have and maintain a core product/service that they will keep in order to maintain a steady revenue stream. This is not rocket science. Perhaps start your own business sometime and you will gain a better perspective.
I am not going to say NCSoft should keep CoH going. It is their property and they can do with it as they want and there is not much anyone can do about it. Would I have liked to have seen it continue? Sure. Am I going to cry over it, no.
Definitely not rocket science. It's also not anything I questioned or contested either.
It's odd that you consider their western CoH servers to be their 'core product/service' or the source of their steady revenue stream when they have had several other titles producing far more revenue much more consistently over an equal or longer period of time. The 'go start your own business to gain a better perspective' quip was cute, though. Good on ya, mate!
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Originally posted by Nadia i do miss DungeonRunners but i dont hold grudges about it being shutdown
That game cracked me up. some of my favorite MMOs were titles that just didn't seem to do well in the long run - Dungeon Runners, Exteel and Auto Assault
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Originally posted by niceguy3978 Can someone link to something that shows they were making a profit on this game? I have seen this repeated over and over but I've never seen anything that backs this up. There is a link near the beginning of this thread that said the game was pulling in about 2.76 million dollars a quarter, which would be about 900,000 a month. How many devs did they have? How much did it cost to lease/maintain whatever property they were located on? How much did they have to pay in taxes? I've not seen any information on this. If they downsized and essentially put it on lifesupport would it still have pulled in the same amount?
CoH is not even listed in the report for the 3rd quarter - there is a category called 'Others' and that is were it is more than likely. In Q2, it was 2% from sales - that is all - which is nothing - considering Aion was bringing in 6-fold more profit. It was just a game that has run it's time.
Originally posted by DSWBeef Oh for the love of. If a game isnt making money or only making enough to support itself then why wouldnt they shut it down. I love Tabula Rasa but im not on some crusade against ncsoft becuase its gone.
CoH was making almost $11 million a year. Do you really think that the cost of the servers, and the minimal staff that was left was costing anything like that much?
Comments
How is NCSoft going to bankruptcy? If you are talking about the lower amount of revenue, all the game publishers are having the same issue. That is a non-starter argument. Remember they make more money in Korea and the Far East than they do here.
All games are really a waste of time and money - that is the point. I mean, entertainment is supposed to do that.
I think you're missing the point. As much as I personally think, as well as many others on these forums might agree, that NCSoft does indeed owe me something is beside all this. We live in an age that when big companies burn groups of people, online information sharing makes it possible to hold those companies accountable. I believe all these gents and gals are trying to do is educate the more general MMO audience regarding their experience with them.
I said they are heading to bankruptcy. That does not mean they will go bankrupt, it all depends on what they do to save themselves, but so far they are not doing a good job, as thie revenue is still going down, despite closing COH, and laying off staff. If their revnue keeps going down, you will probably see more NA/EU game closures first, before bankruptcy
Games are not a total waste of time, eg they can enhance your thinking and observation of stuff around you, and various other things.
When MMOs shut down it makes your time a waste especially if you do not get all out of it what you want. If MMOs are meant to last years, and in the end they do not, then you are left with an incomplete feeling. If you buy a single player offline game then you can play as much, or as little, as you want, until it satisfies you, but MMOs can take away that satisfaction when they shut down. Most people start MMOs when they first release, but some start playing them a week or a month before a shutdown and no way would have gotten all the game has to offer, and when a game is doing well, it makes playing other games more wary.
Without this boycott I would have boycotted NC soft anyway and permanently, and done so in silence. Now there is a public Boycott, then there could be a chance they can do something about it, and not be so quick to shut down games again, and I will more likely play NC soft games again
Star Trek Online - Best Free MMORPG of 2012
"It has potential"
-Second most used phrase on existence
"It sucks"
-Most used phrase on existence
While this may be true, I still find it silly that any company would kill a game that is turning a profit, no matter how small. City of Heroes was contributing to profits, not taking away from them. Just my 2 cents, but I would rather have that 6% of the revenue stream continue than just toss it aside and not have it at all.
It happens all the time. look at when GM got rid of Pontiac, Oldsmobile and Saturn and kept Buick (the previous 2 were doing better (each of them had more sales individually) than Buick in the US but Buick was doing massively well in China - read WORLDS BIGGEST MARKET). IF CoH was only doing well in the US, a small market and not at all in the Far East, this may have been the lynch pin for the decision. We are not privy to what happens in these companies nor can we guess, as much as we would like to.
It is folly and very niave to say, turning a profit, no matter what is important. We don't know what is really important to NCSoft, at least I don't. I am not a fan boy or any thing like that, I am just trying to be realistic in this situation.
It is great that people have picked this to be 'the line in the sand' problem to deal with. I am more worried about the 'Fiscal Cliff' and the economy, than a video game. After all you can't eat a video game, well you could (the packaging) and I bet it desn't taste good but, you need a job to get the video games.
If you had workers/materials/administration making widgets that returned x profit, but you could move them to your line of foos and get 4x profit from their output, would you still make widgets or would you restructure to make bank on foos?
This is really basic business stuff here. Despite how elementary most of this is, I'm quite sure someone is going to reply with the answer that they should keep making widgets and hire more people to make foos.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
But staying with the widgets would be a sound business strategy. You would be keeping a solid foundation you know is making you money that you can fall back on in the event the foos do not work out.
I do understand what you are saying though. There have been games in development in the past that never saw the light of day because they realized they would never "pull in the WoW numbers".
And you still replied with it... even throwing in the "pull in the WoW numbers" strawman for extra effect. How are you a NYer and this is foreign to you? This makes me sad in the pants.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
What is it with CoH players? I've never seen a group of people go into a tail-spin this much over a game in...well...never.
It's just a game. Move on.
The entire premsie of this discussion is precluded by the following reality:
NCSoft is a FOR PROFIT company, accountable to and working for the benefit of its shareholder.
I really don't understand why that needs to be repeated so often; I can only presume that people genuinely don't understand or comprehend how the system works.
If a game is profitable, and by profitable we're not just talking "makes a bit of money", then NCSoft is going to throw its weight behind it. Guild Wars 2, for example, was not the success that NCSoft were hoping for (it also wasn't a failure, by any measure), but they're pushing resources towards ArenaNet in order to bolster the chances that it can shore up the foothold it has managed to attain, in the hopes that it WILL be the success they were hoping for in the future. It's a smart move; Guild Wars 2 is a new product, easier to maintain and update, and easier to monetise.
City of Heroes/Villains was a near-decade old title that was making very little money for NCSoft. NCSoft have never suggested that it was a straight up loss making venture, because it wasn't; they HAVE suggested that the return was too low for them to support it in the long run, and that their internal projections demonstrated that the title (and service) was unsustainable. There are a myriad of reasons for the closure of City of Heroes, but the decision was - regardless of the protests - perfectly reasonable and sound from a profit making point of view.
That decision clearly wasn't taken lightly; for over a year, NCSoft gave Paragon Studious the chance (and the backing) to turn the title around. They even invested in the development of City of X 2. When it came time to look at what Paragon had done to reinvigorate the playerbase, NCSoft saw that things weren't going in the direction they had hoped. Again, the decision was reasonable.
What happens now with City of X is up in the air. NCSoft were licensing the engine behind the game from Cryptic, which certainly came with financial and contractual burdens that we as consumers are not aware of. Cryptic do not usually license their engine externally, and the license to NCSoft was probably a one off (a concession granted only due to Cryptic needing cash to finish STO and Champions). With Perfect World now in control of that technology, it's even less likely that the engine would be licensed to a new company if NCSoft were to sell the franchise on. It's just speculation, but that's how it appears externally. NCSoft may want to sell the franchise - and the game - but if they're not allowed to transfer their engine license to the new owners (and presuming Cryptic would not license the engine to a new owner under new terms), the game loses near-all value, the game assets are uselss, and the game itself would have to be abandoned anyway. Again, it seems reasonable, as Cryptic stands to gain from the loss of CoX.
So why would NCSoft not discuss this with the players? Again, business. It's probable that Cryptic and NCSoft are not allowed to discuss any negotiations (or attempts at negotiation). If this is the case and NCSoft were to openly discuss the issues currently plaquing the operation, sale or licensing of the game or franchise to another company... Cryptic/Perfect World would not hesitate to sue them. Considering NCSofts current financial woes... why would they want to risk that?
This "boycott NCSoft" venture is pathetic, because it's a venture based on ignorance. A group of people who lack the ability to consider the issue in an informed manner have banded together to express misplaced anger at the cost of a company. The claims they make are spurious at best; they charge NCSoft with "bad business practices", but the only evidence they provide for this attack is that NCSoft shut down the games they liked. No self-respecting consumer-orientated company is going to do this, but... NCSoft should just sue whoever set that movement up for slander... because that's what it is ;D
HA HA HA. You got a fair point there. But when I look at NCSoft and what they've done to only 1 game I used to play very short (Tabula Rasa) and what they gave in return (Aion digital deluxe), I think they made me a good deal. Also I have played Lineage II for 4 years as subscriber and I left because the latest expansion (Goddess of Destruction, or rather whath L3 would have been) just was not my cup of tea.
But when I look at $O€ and how they ruin games with their F2P conversion by making game totally unplayable, even after having bought their game (EQ, EQ2, VG - all unplavable for me now), the expansions and all, and as Free player your characters are simply ruined, or in worse case totally not playable, then I think a grudge against $O€ is more in place than one against NCSoft (for me that is).
None the less, I think the way I feel about $O€ and the reason for their decision on F2P and crippling my accounts (and forcing me into sub if I want to play my characters) is quite the same to those who played TR for a long time, and now the CoX players as well. It just sucks when your (favorite) game gets shutdown or becomes unplayable one way or the other. Sadly, NCSoft indeed is one to shut down MMOs more than once the last 5 years...
Burning books is not wrong, i already read those, destroying a park to make a parking lot isnt bad, im already old enough to not want to play on it. Raping my sister? go ahead, i never liked her much anyway.
Such apathy, "i dont care, it doesnt touch ME", but it was important for a lot of people. and what you felt for the SWG was not "bad", you felt pity, and thats awful. CoH players hate to be seen as victims, they played super heroes for years, and now they want to make a stand.
Killing the get away place for tens of thousands of people just because its not making as much money as they would like is wrong. Firing people just because they are not koreans is wrong.
Do you even know how many families that game brought together? how many people saw an improvement in their lives thanks to this casual family friendly game.
When you pour time money and energy into anything and someone comes and takes it away because it doesnt really like it, because it feels that its not needed, with no real reason, you HAVE to do something. Because what does it say about you if you dont?
Played CoH for 3 months, and made a bunch of friends and had a blast, cant imagine what it mustve been like for people that spent 8 years of their lives relaxing in that game, for people that met their couple there. so many people actually crying on the last day, they loved that thing with all their hearth, and NCsoft broke it, because it wasnt making as much money as they thought it should.
Im not here because it broke my heart, didnt play long enough for that to happen, but the thought of what NCsoft did sickens me. And if you really understood what they did it would sicken you too.
Huh? Your reply does not make much sense. Most businesses do have and maintain a core product/service that they will keep in order to maintain a steady revenue stream. This is not rocket science. Perhaps start your own business sometime and you will gain a better perspective.
I am not going to say NCSoft should keep CoH going. It is their property and they can do with it as they want and there is not much anyone can do about it. Would I have liked to have seen it continue? Sure. Am I going to cry over it, no.
Definitely not rocket science. It's also not anything I questioned or contested either.
It's odd that you consider their western CoH servers to be their 'core product/service' or the source of their steady revenue stream when they have had several other titles producing far more revenue much more consistently over an equal or longer period of time. The 'go start your own business to gain a better perspective' quip was cute, though. Good on ya, mate!
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
EQ2 fan sites
That game cracked me up.
some of my favorite MMOs were titles that just didn't seem to do well in the long run - Dungeon Runners, Exteel and Auto Assault
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
And I said this where? I was speaking in hypotheticals, not stating fact for NCSoft. Reading comprehension goes a long way.
http://global.ncsoft.com/global/ir/earnings.aspx
CoH is not even listed in the report for the 3rd quarter - there is a category called 'Others' and that is were it is more than likely. In Q2, it was 2% from sales - that is all - which is nothing - considering Aion was bringing in 6-fold more profit. It was just a game that has run it's time.
CoH was making almost $11 million a year. Do you really think that the cost of the servers, and the minimal staff that was left was costing anything like that much?
http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/biz/2012/12/123_126197.html
NCsoft has a nasty habit of closing down western games. Look at their past history.
Thats why I'm concerned about Wildstar. I wish they had not picked NCsoft as a publisher.
That was a fun and silly game. Its too bad it closed.