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I have been a big opponent of this game for years but...

2

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  • SovrathSovrath Boston Area, MAPosts: 18,460Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by freejackmack

    All right I expected more of a positive reaction to this patch then I see in this thread;

    I think the initial reactions were to your typo in the first sentence. Change "opponent" to "proponent". You missed the "pr" while you were typing.

  • RocketeerRocketeer NachrodtPosts: 1,304Member

    The differnce in strength between T1 and T2 EW ships is less than people think, its far below the jammer randomness for ecm. For example a rook with the wrong racial jammers will do worse than a blackbird with the right racial jammers. So its down to luck not only on the individual jams, but even in the way you fit your jammers. For example a rook fitting a hypothetical fitting of 2 caldari, 2 gallente, 2 minmatar and 1 amarr jammers facing a pure amarr gang will do worse than two t1 frigs that quickly changed to all amarr jams at their pos after getting the intel.

    Or for another extreme example, imagine a rook getting damped by T1 frigs. He has the choice to:

    1. Jam the frigs, but ECM has same duration as CD so he is not going to jam anything else.

    2. Ignore the frigs and get literally ontop of the enemies he wants to jam, at which point he is risking his mobility due to webs and scrams.

     

    And thats only one of the ways T1 frigates can be used to counter specialized EW ships like the rook, for another they can lock a rook and attempt a scram before the rook can do the same(frigs lock cruiser hulls faster than the reverse). And even if the rook gets a lock before due to range or something, he wouldn't really want to waste a scram on a T1 frigate while there is ANYTHING else on the field(its kinda hard to explain your gang that you didn't jam that megathron that was eating peoples faces because you where busy jamming a maulus or two).

    Lastly while T2 ships will have a bit higher success rate, and 1-2 slots more dedicated to their EW, they are primary targets. A rook that fails to jam two BS will have two BS trying to kill him(and with pulse or ACs they have a fair chance at it even outside 24km). A T1 frigate that fails a jam ... yeah well if the BS can afford the time to go after that frig the fight is over anyway.

     

    So is T2 just bad? In a way it is. This is an old discussion that came up before when the BCs where introduced, which gave and give HACs more than a good run for their money. T2 are niche ships, better than their direct T1 counterpart, but not necessarily better than their T1 role replacement.

    A deimos is better than a thorax, but i wouldn't replace a deimos with a thorax, i would replace a deimos with a talos at which point the lines get blurry and it becomes highly situational which performs better.

    So yeah a rook is better than a blackbird in theory. But the rook will be primary whereas the blackbird might not be(atleast not while there is a rook on the field :D), lacking the means to protect the rook in my gang, i might opt for the BB instead. Griffin even more so, never once have i been in a gang where a t1 frig has been called primary. But if said frigate is getting jams on your rook, which then ends up getting killed because he couldn't jam the mega in his face ... Its a tough call. Ironically depending on gangsize and makeup it might take longer to kill a t1 frigate than a t2 cruiser so its really situational. Would you want to trade a BS for a T1 frig?

    The thing is, specialized EW T1 ships are mean because they combine the low priority of worthless ships with the high priority of dangerous tiebreakers that can decide close battles on their own. In a mixed gang with players from a couple months to a couple years old the new guy in a griffin might very well be more dangerous to your specific gang than the veteran in his curse. Question is will your FC recognize it, and will he have the balls to act on it despite the fact he will look like an idiot if it backfires?

  • cujo603cujo603 n, NHPosts: 99Member
    Every time i've tried Eve, I find myself bored.  It feels like an unpaid 2nd job, not a game.
  • RocketeerRocketeer NachrodtPosts: 1,304Member
    Originally posted by cujo603
    Every time i've tried Eve, I find myself bored.  It feels like an unpaid 2nd job, not a game.

    I wish my job was like EvE :(.

  • RobokappRobokapp Dublin, OHPosts: 5,206Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Rocketeer
    Originally posted by cujo603
    Every time i've tried Eve, I find myself bored.  It feels like an unpaid 2nd job, not a game.

    I wish my job was like EvE :(.

    this.

     

    and I'm a miner/indy. which people claim is the absolute most boring thing in eve.

     

    but then there's people who find fishing relaxing. I find mining relaxing.

     

    "but you dont make 20mil/tick that way". NO I dont. But I also don'tlose much at all since I'm not a pvp'er. so why would I need to make isk that quickly? I'm sitting on 3.5 billion liquid cash, I have no capital skills. if i want something right now, I can afford it. to me that's enough. :)

     

    I don't find it as a job because i dont feel a 'rush to progress'. i'm just enjoying it. It's odd to explain, most don't know what not rushing to progress in a game feels like. I mean ever played mario and not tried to progress? it cant be done. in most games it cant be done. Only in a sandbox.

    image

  • MalcanisMalcanis LondonPosts: 3,191Member
    Originally posted by cujo603
    Every time i've tried Eve, I find myself bored.  It feels like an unpaid 2nd job, not a game.

    This is almost certainly because you tried to play it like a normal MMO, ie: like a job. If you want an unpaid 2nd job, EVE will cheerfully accomodate you. If you don't, it will allow you to live a life of risk and danger. The only catch is you'll actually have to run some risks and endure some danger.

    Give me liberty or give me lasers

  • freejackmackfreejackmack feeport, MSPosts: 378Member

    There have been quite a lot of fixes in this patch. Maybe because some of the old crap code is gone and replaced with new systems that actually does what is needed. I feel like there has been more care taken in this patch than in most. These changes have been a long time coming. Patch notes build 457011

    I like this one: Unpiloted ships are no longer kicked out of a password-restricted forcefield when their owner logs in.

    Seems like people are more aggressive now; or is it just me? I think it is because the rules of engagement are clearly defined and easier to understand and see.

    It has been a very interesting day.

  • zeropridezeropride gonzales, LAPosts: 21Member
    Originally posted by Gdemami

     


    Originally posted by freejackmack

    The cheap nature of the frigates does not mean they should not be able to fill at least one roll in combat and industry.

     

    ...

    Tiers of roles is the best way.


     

    Frigates always had place in EVE and their use remains unchanged. Ships always had their roles, regardless of tiers. Only what has changed is a label, tier -> role.


    Nothing you talk about is actually changing anything in game. It is just vain marketing speech.


    It is still Winmatar online like it used to be for years and years...no balance improvement achieved.

     

    lol guess you didnt see the Minmatar whine in the threads. The rifter is usless, stabber can only bump and the rupture is no longer godly. Also the catalyst is taking over the thrashers spot cuz that redic deeps.

     

  • Mtibbs1989Mtibbs1989 Fredericksburg, VAPosts: 2,920Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by freejackmack

    I have been a big opponent of this game for years but I have just read the website for the new expansion and it is full of win; if not just for the ship balancing and new ships that should have always been in Eve, then there is the bounty system that really shines with the ability to choose limitations on who your bounty is paid out to.

    This means wars are more manageable for both the soldiers and the corp/alliance/coalition leaders. Soldiers can get immediate compensation for their efforts and leaders don't have to sift through pages of mail and then manually send off money.

    That type of mechanic means more fun for all. Well done CCP, well done. This mechanic, exactly as described, should be in every mmo from now on, with no exceptions!

    Read the details about the new bounty system for yourself if you have not already: bounty system

    The simple brilliance of this system is very elegant; and I was skeptical when I first heard about the bounty system changing. I'm jealous that I did not come up with the system myself. This forces me to acknowledge the fact that there is hope for CCP, where as, before reading the details of this system I was wondering if CCP was just a front for the International Weed Smokers Association movement or a bunch of coked out x pimps. I guess they still could be but no-doubt they were exceptional at their trade and do well on drugs judging buy the details of the new systems.

    The only thing that could facilitate war payout more effectively would be a bounty payed out automatically from corps/alliances/coalitions to people who kill a non allied ship with in a designated perimeter or select systems.

    The new balancing is great; the new frigates are essential. The new short warp mod should have been reality at release. All the content in the new upcoming patch concerning ships should have been in game from day 1. But better now then never.

    Other features like ui refinements and Crimewatch are really necessary and the AI revamp could be good as well for added fun.

    This patch if all goes well will be the best patch in the 10 year history of Eve; I think you all can agree on that.

    they systems for combat my be "fun" in that slow paced game but, lets not forget that it's who spends the most time playing the game who have already won. people have started at day one and still play will always be better than you.

    image

    Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
  • tom_goretom_gore TamperePosts: 1,796Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by grounnn
    Originally posted by freejackmack

    I have been a big opponent of this game for years but I have just read the website for the new expansion and it is full of win; if not just for the ship balancing and new ships that should have always been in Eve, then there is the bounty system that really shines with the ability to choose limitations on who your bounty is paid out to.

    This means wars are more manageable for both the soldiers and the corp/alliance/coalition leaders. Soldiers can get immediate compensation for their efforts and leaders don't have to sift through pages of mail and then manually send off money.

    That type of mechanic means more fun for all. Well done CCP, well done. This mechanic, exactly as described, should be in every mmo from now on, with no exceptions!

    Read the details about the new bounty system for yourself if you have not already: bounty system

    The simple brilliance of this system is very elegant; and I was skeptical when I first heard about the bounty system changing. I'm jealous that I did not come up with the system myself. This forces me to acknowledge the fact that there is hope for CCP, where as, before reading the details of this system I was wondering if CCP was just a front for the International Weed Smokers Association movement or a bunch of coked out x pimps. I guess they still could be but no-doubt they were exceptional at their trade and do well on drugs judging buy the details of the new systems.

    The only thing that could facilitate war payout more effectively would be a bounty payed out automatically from corps/alliances/coalitions to people who kill a non allied ship with in a designated perimeter or select systems.

    The new balancing is great; the new frigates are essential. The new short warp mod should have been reality at release. All the content in the new upcoming patch concerning ships should have been in game from day 1. But better now then never.

    Other features like ui refinements and Crimewatch are really necessary and the AI revamp could be good as well for added fun.

    This patch if all goes well will be the best patch in the 10 year history of Eve; I think you all can agree on that.

    they systems for combat my be "fun" in that slow paced game but, lets not forget that it's who spends the most time playing the game who have already won. people have started at day one and still play will always be better than you.

    Better at what? A carebear who has been sitting in highsec for 6 years will get his ass handed to him by a guy who has been pvping from day one for 6 months.

    I only hear these kinds of comments from the mouths of people who have no or very little PvP experience.

  • RobokappRobokapp Dublin, OHPosts: 5,206Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by grounnn
     people have started at day one and still play will always be better than you.

    it's a common scenario in life and in most video games ...

    image

  • hfztthfztt GlostrupPosts: 840Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Gdemami


    CCP is failing to deliver since 2008...

     

    Nah. CCP failed to deliver 2008-2011.

    The last 1½ year has been pure win. Actaully fixing stuff that has needed fixing since 2003.

    From now on they need to start adding large new content though, or it will start being an issue that they only fix things that are broken.

  • RobokappRobokapp Dublin, OHPosts: 5,206Member Uncommon

    I don't want 'large' new content...and I dont like the new targetting circles.

     

    UGH. Why do MMOs have to change things I'm used to ?

     

    a ship here and there, some fluff...fine...but focus-shifting changes like wow's expansions do, I don't want. I feel there's enough content in eve to cycle through and not be bored for a lifetime.

     

    I'm certainly not found of that flashy timer every time i kill a rat. Does anyone know how to turn off / kill flashiness / return UI to how it was before ?

     

    te combat log spam with every drone listed...yikes, I'd hate to be a carrier.

     

    CAN I TURN IT BACK THE WAY IT WAS ?

     

     

    image

  • zomard100zomard100 karlovacPosts: 228Member
    Originally posted by Zeppelin4
    War Decs keep me from coming back to Eve. I get in a new small corp and were having fun then bam war dec by some 50 year vet and we die and or people quit. What fun :( This has happen each time I have come back. I stopped coming back.

    You must be a very ''bad'' person in game or a fearsome pvp guy. My small corp was never wd in few years and we do some random pvp. Can't see other reason to be wd from some big corp

  • MalcanisMalcanis LondonPosts: 3,191Member
    Originally posted by hfztt
    Originally posted by Gdemami


    CCP is failing to deliver since 2008...

     

    Nah. CCP failed to deliver 2008-2011.

    The last 1½ year has been pure win. Actaully fixing stuff that has needed fixing since 2003.

    From now on they need to start adding large new content though, or it will start being an issue that they only fix things that are broken.

    Apocrypha was fantastic and that was the Summer 2009.

    Winter 2009-Summer 2011 was the dead zone for expansions IMO, with Winter 2011's Crucible getting us back on track.

     

    Looking back, it's incredible to think how much the game has improved since the low-point of Incarna.

     

    PS Don't worry about Gdemami, he just hates whatever everyone else likes. I think he just likes being angry. I'm also fairly sure it's a while since he's actually undocked.

    Give me liberty or give me lasers

  • MalcanisMalcanis LondonPosts: 3,191Member
    Originally posted by zomard100
    Originally posted by Zeppelin4
    War Decs keep me from coming back to Eve. I get in a new small corp and were having fun then bam war dec by some 50 year vet and we die and or people quit. What fun :( This has happen each time I have come back. I stopped coming back.

    You must be a very ''bad'' person in game or a fearsome pvp guy. My small corp was never wd in few years and we do some random pvp. Can't see other reason to be wd from some big corp

    The lesson here is, don't join "small new" corps until you're able to defend yourself. Join large, well-established corps that can help you.

    Give me liberty or give me lasers

  • sadeyxsadeyx leicesterPosts: 1,553Member

    Even with their failed WiS expansion,  Eve has grown its subscription base year on year. 2011 was the only year where that growth slowed.  But it was still growth.

    This is something that no other mmo does, with only one exception.  Even the most obnoxcious opposer must conceed this point.

     

    So I guess the reason why people are reacting negativly to the OP's post is because he claims that he has been an opponent of Eve.    He doesnt say why, only that this single feature has reversed his entire opinion,   which pretty much destroys his own credability.

     

    Whatever reasons you were opposed to Eve, most people imagine that they were probably thoughtless, baseless misconceptions steeped in ignorance.

     

    Eve Online is a historically significant game that was incredibly awesome many many years before they fixed this one issue.  Just a shame you were too short sighted to see it before now.

     

     

  • MalcanisMalcanis LondonPosts: 3,191Member

    To be fair, lack of a viable bounty system was a gaping wound in the hi-sec game.

    But who the hell "opposes" a game? I don't "oppose" WoW or TOR; I just don't play them.

    But then again, given the number of people who come to this forum just to keep us up to date on how much they don't like EVE, I guess the OP isn't the only one who "opposes" EVE.

    Give me liberty or give me lasers

  • hfztthfztt GlostrupPosts: 840Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Malcanis

    Apocrypha was fantastic and that was the Summer 2009.

    Aye.

    But Apocrypha was a big appology to the players for 2008. It was a response to players being unhappy about the direction and content CCP had been delivering.

    And tbh much of the the content of that expansion was half cooked. Sure wormholes are fun, but if you step back and look at it its clear it was never finished, but just released.

  • MalcanisMalcanis LondonPosts: 3,191Member

    The thing about Apocrypha was that it introduced a whole new way to play the game, and we only get those every 2-3 years.

    Anyway, apparently CCP have decided to move to an alternating new stuff focus/fix stuff focus expansion model, which is absolutely fine by me. Retribution is effectively a "new stuff" expansion because the previous bounty system was barely more than a post it note with "To do: develop bounty hunting" written on it.

    A characteristic it shared with quite a few other features in EVE...

    Anyway I'm hoping to hell that the summer 13 expansion is the one where they fix Sov 0.0 because jesus christ that's long overdue.

    Give me liberty or give me lasers

  • hfztthfztt GlostrupPosts: 840Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Malcanis

    Anyway I'm hoping to hell that the summer 13 expansion is the one where they fix Sov 0.0 because jesus christ that's long overdue.

    I would agree if I did not live in a wormhole. But I do.

    So fixing the POS systems seems more important to me.

  • RocketeerRocketeer NachrodtPosts: 1,304Member
    Originally posted by hfztt
    Originally posted by Malcanis

    Anyway I'm hoping to hell that the summer 13 expansion is the one where they fix Sov 0.0 because jesus christ that's long overdue.

    I would agree if I did not live in a wormhole. But I do.

    So fixing the POS systems seems more important to me.

    Word. Some people think POS has some funny double meaning, the way it is atm, it does not.

  • GdemamiGdemami Beau VallonPosts: 7,865Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by zeropride

    lol guess you didnt see the Minmatar whine in the threads. The rifter is usless, stabber can only bump and the rupture is no longer godly. Also the catalyst is taking over the thrashers spot cuz that redic deeps. 

    From RvB killboard, 1275 kill mails in period of about 2.5 day:

    Out of 143 destroyers, 113 were Thrashers.

    What data do you use, please?

  • GdemamiGdemami Beau VallonPosts: 7,865Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by hfztt
    Nah. CCP failed to deliver 2008-2011.The last 1½ year has been pure win. Actaully fixing stuff that has needed fixing since 2003.From now on they need to start adding large new content though, or it will start being an issue that they only fix things that are broken.

    CCP reported their low point of 340k subscribers in December 2011.


    They are still no way near to what last successful expansion - Incursion, brought up.


    Incarna, Crucible, Inferno - none of them was able to break the trend of losing/no growth subscribers so you might like recent expansion personally, majority disagree with you tho.

  • BizkitNLBizkitNL NetherlandsPosts: 2,280Member Common
    Originally posted by Gdemami

     


    Originally posted by hfztt
    Nah. CCP failed to deliver 2008-2011.

     

    The last 1½ year has been pure win. Actaully fixing stuff that has needed fixing since 2003.

    From now on they need to start adding large new content though, or it will start being an issue that they only fix things that are broken.


     

    CCP reported their low point of 340k subscribers in December 2012.


    They are still no way near to what last successful expansion - Incursion, brought up.


    Incarna, Crucible, Inferno - none of them was able to break the trend of losing/no growth subscribers so you might like recent expansion personally, majority disagree with you tho.

    I think you're trying too hard to discredit the game.

    10
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