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This pretty much sums up why ffa pvp mmo's fail.
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Care to explain me how Open World PvP is entirely the opposite of "forcing"?? Its not an additional choice at all, its there and you need to deal with it. Sure in a owPvP flag system you kinda have the choice, but in a owPvP FFA full loot, you don't.
Compared this to instanced BG's, if I don't want to join them, I just don't and it doesn't change anything to me. In a owPvP game, its there and you need to deal with it. You don't have the option of not joining the owPvP.
Well you can not realy have a successful "sandbox" without both pve and pvp, crafting, housing, exploration, and much more. They do claim DFUW is a sandbox, so they should give both pve and pvp some love. Im good with pvp, but i enjoy pve also. And often times taking a break from one role to another is just relaxing.
And for those of you that think PS2 is a MMORPG........ LOL at you. PS2 is a shooter, they add MMOFPS to it, but still just a shooter, and the onlything that makes it a mmo is the persistant world. But is in no way, shape, or form a MMORPG! Shows many here have no idea what a real mmo is
Planetside2 has no business being brought up in this type of thread, let alone in this sub forum, but since its some how is being used to prove some sort of point, a couple of things to keep in mind:
1. PS2 has no PVE , nor did the first game.
2. PS and PS2 intentionally made no PVE , despite talks, both games focused on PVP, was marketed to be about PVP, was Born and will die With PVP being its focus, So no Raid Bosses, no F---in gear score, No Quest lines or numbers popping above your enemies head when you shoot them.
3. MMOFPS.
there are countless videos of the developers and marketing team upfront, in the public, in FRONT OF THOUSANDS, of other people in several gaming events of them saying this. Anyone saying this is a MMORPG their whole arguement becomes invalid; and not by me, by the dev team and smed himself, got a problem with it, take it up with them.
4. Planetsides philosophy in pvp Differs from Darkfall on the premise that Pside and Pside2 adopted the motto
"a 5 minute player can take out a 5 year player at any time given the situation is right." <-- what does that mean?
it means this:
OF COURSE, half of you will not look at the video or understand whats going on, so ill spell it out to you.
If skilled enough and with the right weapon, you can take a vanilla character, and kill another character that has all the weapons, certs and advancements..
Darkfall in some form, can do the same thing but answer me this:
a. how common place is it to see a next to no level player to own a maxed out player?
b. how many players can claim to kill a maxed out player with the weakest weapon possible?
not gonna say i know alot about darkfall, I dont, but the threads and posts here and on the official forums suggest its not all that common, unless its a group of lowbies taking down a high level player.
The reason FFA full loot PvP games fail is the players pure and simple.
The people that play these games do so because they want to behave like douchebags and the ruleset allows them to behave like douchebags, which for some reason they get a perverse kick out of.
This then turns everyone else off of the game, you are just left with a small core of douchebags being douches to each other, this is not attractive to new players, game fails.
Cluck Cluck, Gibber Gibber, My Old Mans A Mushroom
Darkfall may not be the perfect MMORPG... however I completely disagree with the OP and quite frankly I don't think he understands how MMORPGs were at the time of their creation. In the begining game designers were attempting to create virtual worlds players could live in... such games as UO had few restrictions on the players actions because in recreating a world it would be silly to stop players from taking whatever actions they so desired. Only in the modern era of gaming have MMORPGs become hand-holding story-time games where PvE was the main focus.... it use to be that both PvE and PvP were focused on at the same level.
Darkfall hopefully will finally realize its potential on the market... the OP and others like him may not like the harsh rulesets... but those of us that do because we do want a virtual world without limitations will enjoy the game in a way no themepark MMO player could ever understand.
Full Sail University - Game Design
Not until it changed a crap ton of its "harder core" pvp rules. Even then it only garnered at its height about 60% of where EQ1 got.
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."
- Friedrich Nietzsche
Just because another "easier" game has more players than another doesn't mean its a better game. Just as just because EQ1 had more players doesn't mean UO failed in the marketplace.
People have different tastes in their games... if you don't like what Darkfall has to offer go to one of the other 50+ themepark games out on the market right now.
Full Sail University - Game Design
I prefer Rule # 1 (Double Tap)
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Ding ding ding ding ding^
Why do you guys think EVE's growth has been so insanely slow. Its not friendly to new players, and you have to have a certain mentality to participate in the game's "main" feature, which is basically low or nullsec PVP battles.
Any time you have a full loots, FFA PVP game, you invariably get some griefer douchebag who spawn camps carebear n00bs, or you get some roaving pack of imbeciles who beat their chests and think they're super fuck awesome because they can 8v5 a group of new players.
The only people who like FFA PVP games are people who don't like fair fights, which are cowards, at least as far as a game is concerned. IN real life its a diff ballgame, take every advantage you can get. But then, we don't play video games to be like real life.
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."
- Friedrich Nietzsche
And yet it marks consistent growth every year. Is there any other MMO on the market right now that can boast with that? Most theme parks start with 500k-1mil pre-orders and then tumble down to 100k or freemium in a year. Hell, even WoW is past its 12mil heyday.
If accessibility and player safety is all it's about, why doesn't any theme park grow like EVE?
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
On we sweep with threshing oar, our only goal will be the western shore."
I loved Ultima Online before trammel... and i did not like Ultima Online that much after trammel.
I loved Shadowbane... keep tracking sir!
But... i actually loved DAoC the most... and i would still play it, if it was popular... but alas, it is for some reason not.
By far the best PvP/RvR i have had in any game... good old frontiers... going out there was just frightening, and super rewarding fun when you did NOT get whacked by some evil Archer named Blood!
So... i like full loot/half full loot mmorpgs.... but i actually like DAoC's system even more. Nice safe PvE realm, but with lots of nice interesting goodies outside in the PvP frontiers.
This post is weird.... Its weird because i actually enjoyed DF and didnt see it as a fail. And if i liked it there must be a group of people that would like it too....
And if we can get enough of those type of people playing it then.... see where im going with this?
http://medias.luna-atra.fr/gw2/char_tool/CT_imageGenerator.php?pseudo=Centurion Mikal&lang=EN&code=&code=TSwtLDUsLSw2LC0sMjksOSwyMiwyMywyNCwtLDEwMiwzNiw4MSw4NCw4OQ==