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This pretty much sums up why ffa pvp mmo's fail.

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Comments

  • 123443211234123443211234 seattle, WAPosts: 244Member
    Originally posted by Slampig
    Originally posted by 123443211234

    Ya ya we get it you don't like darkfall.  So why are you still trolling our forums?  The first Darkfall lasted for 3 years and allowed the company to go from 12 employees to around 60 employess.  They opened an additional server (NA) six months after release.  Name another mmo company (other than eve)  that has expanded and grown their servers and company after release.

     

    This game will not fail, sure it may not have millions of subs, but it was never intended to.  You see Aventurine isn't in it for the money they are in it for a game they would like to play. 

     

    FFA full loot pvp is a niche, one that some people like myself find very fun and entertaining, in fact so much so that all of the currently released mmo play like steaming piles of crap to me and look to be blatant greedy money grabs by their devs.

     

    Just because you don't want to leave carebear land and actually experience a great game doesn't mean plenty of others won't.  Darkfall UW will be around years from now.

    I always get a chuckle when I see people use this line. You show me one single company that is not a non-profit or charitable organization that isn't out to make a buck.

    And as for this game never intending to have millions of subs, I think that down inside this company would LOVE to have a million subs, what company wouldn't?

    FFS.

    So you support greed then.  Yes, Aventurine makes a tidy profit, NO they are not out for the greedy money grab.  If they were they would not make statements like "we are making the game we want to play".  They would simply copy all of the other crappy wow clone new f2p models like all the other trash out there.

     

    There is a big difference between being greedy and making a profit.  The be all end all for Aventurine is not to make hundreds of milliions and grow their company to 1000's of employess.  It is merely to "make the game they want to play".

     

    Your rational is severly flawed there is a large difference between a for profit and a greedy for profit.  This can be found in not only the way they treat their employees within the company, but also how they treat their customers and their products.   What you seem to be saying is that only "walmart" style games are worth making and investing in.  That is simply not true and only shows your own arrogance and ignorance of people's motivations.  Greed does not equal better, it almost always means worse.

  • TheocritusTheocritus Gary, INPosts: 3,747Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Azoth
    So UO was not a success ?

          Not really until Trammel came out...That is when it gained the most subs and held onto them.....The majority of gamers don't want to play games where at any given second someone can take everything they have in the blink of an eye and to have to pay for it then forget it.

  • almerelalmerel Sterling Heights, MIPosts: 683Member
    I enjoyed my free trial of DF because I had to pay attention to the game if I wanted to keep what I got. If I die in another game I really don't loose anything important. I just couldn't bring myself to buy the game with how dead it was though.

    -Almerel

    image

  • SirFubarSirFubar SeoulPosts: 397Member
    Originally posted by JWTuna

    Rule#2 - Any MMO that forces PVP fails.
    Rule#3 - Enticing PVEers to PVP is different than forcing them to. NO scenario/idea that forces it has succeeded.

     

    Hard to understand what you are talking about. Open world pvp is offering an additional choice, it is entirely the opposite of 'forcing'. You must have a really shite time gaming if you think/feel that you are bieng forced to do anything...What you do in an MMORPG is your CHOICE, thats kinda the most basic concept of ROLE PLAYING (thats the 'R' and 'P' in RPG, the 'G' stands for game...Which, you know, is something done for fun...But I guess you missed that).

     

    In fact, it is players with this warped view of mmos that inflict 'forced' scenarios on other people ~ limiting choices whenever it is something you dont like, rather than just doing something else...

    Care to explain me how Open World PvP is entirely the opposite of "forcing"?? Its not an additional choice at all, its there and you need to deal with it. Sure in a owPvP flag system you kinda have the choice, but in a owPvP FFA full loot, you don't.

    Compared this to instanced BG's, if I don't want to join them, I just don't and it doesn't change anything to me. In a owPvP game, its there and you need to deal with it. You don't have the option of not joining the owPvP.

  • OnomasOnomas Rock Hill, SCPosts: 1,128Member Uncommon

    Well you can not realy have a successful "sandbox" without both pve and pvp, crafting, housing, exploration, and much more. They do claim DFUW is a sandbox, so they should give both pve and pvp some love. Im good with pvp, but i enjoy pve also. And often times taking a break from one role to another is just relaxing.

    And for those of you that think PS2 is a MMORPG........ LOL at you. PS2 is a shooter, they add MMOFPS to it, but still just a shooter, and the onlything that makes it a mmo is the persistant world. But is in no way, shape, or form a MMORPG! Shows many here have no idea what a real mmo is image

  • BeanpuieBeanpuie Norfolk, VAPosts: 812Member Uncommon

    Planetside2 has no business being brought up in this type of thread, let alone in this sub forum,  but since its some how is being used to prove some sort of point, a couple of things to keep in mind:

     

    1. PS2  has no PVE , nor did the first game.

    2. PS and PS2 intentionally made no PVE , despite talks,  both games focused on PVP, was marketed to be about PVP, was Born and will die With PVP being its focus,  So no Raid Bosses, no F---in gear score, No Quest lines or numbers popping above your enemies head when you shoot them. 

    3. MMOFPS. 

    there are countless videos of the developers and marketing team upfront, in the public,  in FRONT OF THOUSANDS, of other people in several gaming events of them saying this. Anyone saying this is a MMORPG their whole arguement becomes invalid; and not by me, by the dev team and smed himself, got a problem with it, take it up with them.

    4. Planetsides philosophy in pvp Differs from Darkfall on the premise that  Pside and Pside2 adopted the motto

    "a 5 minute player can  take out a 5 year player at any time given the situation is right."  <-- what does that mean?

    it means this: 

    Watch live video from fortyse7en on www.twitch.tv

    OF COURSE, half of you will not look at the video or understand whats going on, so ill spell it out to you.

    If skilled enough and with the right weapon, you can take a vanilla character, and kill another character that has all the weapons, certs and advancements..

     

    Darkfall in some form, can do the same thing but answer me this:

    a. how common place is it to see a next to no level player to own a maxed out player?

    b. how many players can claim to kill a maxed out player with the weakest weapon possible?

     

    not gonna say i know alot about darkfall,  I dont, but the threads and posts here and on the official forums suggest its not all that common, unless its a group of lowbies taking down a high level player.

     

     

  • EyrothathEyrothath Phoenix, AZPosts: 198Member
    A proper MMORPG would be made with two goals in mind and that is socializing and roleplaying.. If you're making an MMO an saying it is a PVE game, well, you get games like SWTOR, which might as well be a single player game, it is why people wern't willing to dump 15 bucks a month for it.. A billion people use facebook to socialize, shouldn't MMO's be made the same way? For a social experience? This is where developers are failing.. And if you want such a world then the game needs to be imersive, it should have everything that the developers can possibly throw in, without restrictions.. Full loot, FFA PVP is just realistic in a roleplaying environment, Darkfall was never just about PVP, just like in Ultima Online, PVP is not the feature here, the feature is total freedom of play.. Granted, I believe Darkfall should have and could have been more roleplay friendly and if you want roleplayers in your game, they need to be able to socialize..
  • stragen001stragen001 ReadingPosts: 1,720Member

    The reason FFA full loot PvP games fail is the players pure and simple.

    The people that play these games do so because they want to behave like douchebags and the ruleset allows them to behave like douchebags, which for some reason they get a perverse kick out of. 

     

    This then turns everyone else off of the game, you are just left with a small core of douchebags being douches to each other, this is not attractive to new players, game fails.

    Cluck Cluck, Gibber Gibber, My Old Mans A Mushroom

  • Southpaw.GamerSouthpaw.Gamer Guelph, ONPosts: 572Member

    Darkfall may not be the perfect MMORPG... however I completely disagree with the OP and quite frankly I don't think he understands how MMORPGs were at the time of their creation.  In the begining game designers were attempting to create virtual worlds players could live in... such games as UO had few restrictions on the players actions because in recreating a world it would be silly to stop players from taking whatever actions they so desired.  Only in the modern era of gaming have MMORPGs become hand-holding story-time games where PvE was the main focus.... it use to be that both PvE and PvP were focused on at the same level.  

     

    Darkfall hopefully will finally realize its potential on the market... the OP and others like him may not like the harsh rulesets... but those of us that do because we do want a virtual world without limitations will enjoy the game in a way no themepark MMO player could ever understand.

    Full Sail University - Game Design

  • HrimnirHrimnir Qeynos, COPosts: 1,597Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Azoth
    So UO was not a success ?

    Not until it changed a crap ton of its "harder core" pvp rules.  Even then it only garnered at its height about 60% of where EQ1 got.

    "The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."

    - Friedrich Nietzsche

  • Southpaw.GamerSouthpaw.Gamer Guelph, ONPosts: 572Member
    Originally posted by Hrimnir
    Originally posted by Azoth
    So UO was not a success ?

    Not until it changed a crap ton of its "harder core" pvp rules.  Even then it only garnered at its height about 60% of where EQ1 got.

    Just because another "easier" game has more players than another doesn't mean its a better game.  Just as just because EQ1 had more players doesn't mean UO failed in the marketplace.  

     

    People have different tastes in their games... if you don't like what Darkfall has to offer go to one of the other 50+ themepark games out on the market right now.

    Full Sail University - Game Design

  • KyleranKyleran Tampa, FLPosts: 19,995Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Axehandle
    Rule #1 Cardio

    I prefer Rule # 1 (Double Tap) image

    In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.
    "I don't have one life, I have many lives" - Grunty
    Still currently "subscribed" to EVE, and only EVE!!!
    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  • HrimnirHrimnir Qeynos, COPosts: 1,597Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by stragen001

    The reason FFA full loot PvP games fail is the players pure and simple.

    The people that play these games do so because they want to behave like douchebags and the ruleset allows them to behave like douchebags, which for some reason they get a perverse kick out of. 

     

    This then turns everyone else off of the game, you are just left with a small core of douchebags being douches to each other, this is not attractive to new players, game fails.

    Ding ding ding ding ding^

    Why do you guys think EVE's growth has been so insanely slow.  Its not friendly to new players, and you have to have a certain mentality to participate in the game's "main" feature, which is basically low or nullsec PVP battles.

    Any time you have a full loots, FFA PVP game, you invariably get some griefer douchebag who spawn camps carebear n00bs, or you get some roaving pack of imbeciles who beat their chests and think they're super fuck awesome because they can 8v5 a group of new players.

    The only people who like FFA PVP games are people who don't like fair fights, which are cowards, at least as far as a game is concerned.  IN real life its a diff ballgame, take every advantage you can get.  But then, we don't play video games to be like real life.

    "The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."

    - Friedrich Nietzsche

  • Thoric485Thoric485 SofiaPosts: 525Member
    Originally posted by Hrimnir
      Ding ding ding ding ding^

    Why do you guys think EVE's growth has been so insanely slow.  Its not friendly to new players, and you have to have a certain mentality to participate in the game's "main" feature, which is basically low or nullsec PVP battles.

    Any time you have a full loots, FFA PVP game, you invariably get some griefer douchebag who spawn camps carebear n00bs, or you get some roaving pack of imbeciles who beat their chests and think they're super fuck awesome because they can 8v5 a group of new players.

    The only people who like FFA PVP games are people who don't like fair fights, which are cowards, at least as far as a game is concerned.  IN real life its a diff ballgame, take every advantage you can get.  But then, we don't play video games to be like real life.

     

    And yet it marks consistent growth every year. Is there any other MMO on the market right now that can boast with that?  Most theme parks start with 500k-1mil pre-orders and then tumble down to 100k or freemium in a year. Hell, even WoW is past its 12mil heyday.

     

    If accessibility and player safety is all it's about, why doesn't any theme park grow like EVE?

    "The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
    To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
    On we sweep with threshing oar, our only goal will be the western shore."
  • JCBNJCBN OtterupPosts: 46Member

    I loved Ultima Online before trammel... and i did not like Ultima Online that much after trammel.

    I loved Shadowbane... keep tracking sir!

    But... i actually loved DAoC the most... and i would still play it, if it was popular... but alas, it is for some reason not. :(

    By far the best PvP/RvR i have had in any game... good old frontiers... going out there was just frightening, and super rewarding fun when you did NOT get whacked by some evil Archer named Blood!

    So... i like full loot/half full loot mmorpgs.... but i actually like DAoC's system even more. Nice safe PvE realm, but with lots of nice interesting goodies outside in the PvP frontiers.

  • ellobo29ellobo29 warren, MIPosts: 406Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Siveria

    So in case your wondering why I say Darkfall: uw will be dead after 3 months, its because of the rules below and the fact that its been proven that in todays mmo market ffa full loot pvp games just do not survive anymore sadly, Now you might argue about Eve Online, but that game was near death till Plex came out and people could play for free on someone else's dollar.

    Read the general mmorpg rules below. Especally number 3, because this is where games like mortal online and darkfall failed. Also before you say I dislike pvp, i don't, I don't mind if its forced, what I do dislike is the full loot aspect of it, well that and the fact max lv chars can pick on lowbie/newbies and get away with it.. usually, there are sometimes other players who will take time out of their day to protect said lowbies. Take the full loot away from darkfall UW and i'd defentally play. Don't mind so much about picking on lowbies, its not something I do and i feel people that do that are cowards who can't handle a real/even fight.

    Here are the rules below, and for the most part they are true. Number 3 is one of the major reasons why games like MO, DF etc fail. That and what I mentioned earlier.

    Rule#1 - MMORPGs are PVE games with PVP elements, not the other way around.
    Rule#2 - Any MMO that forces PVP fails.
    Rule#3 - Enticing PVEers to PVP is different than forcing them to. NO scenario/idea that forces it has succeeded.
    Rule#4 - The same as Rule#3 can be applied to RP - you cannot force it.
    Rule#5 - Before you get lippy, remember Rule#1.

    This post is weird.... Its weird because i actually enjoyed DF and didnt see it as a fail. And if i liked it there must be a group of people that would like it too....

    And if we can get enough of those type of people playing it then.... see where im going with this?

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