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Ncsoft : Massive layoffs and offices undergoing 'realignment'

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  • DAVIDMINDYDAVIDMINDY COLORADO SPRINGS, COPosts: 27Member

     

    I love how we Americans assume a foreign company is failing because some of us don’t like their product. But I do like facts.

    1.       AION is wholly owned by NCSOFT

    2.       COH was a profitable company when they closed it; it was not closed due to financial reasons. Primary reason for complaints.

    3.       They are consolidating the company because they want to expand it. This has been in the financial news for a while.

    4.       They are still profitable during a global recession even though they are down by half.

    5.       55% of their total profits are in KOREA, you know because it is a Korean company.

    6.       AION is 16% of their profits still

    7.       Their biggest expense is labor, which is why u cut it first.

    8.       GW2 is 27% of their profits

    9.       GW2 is only release in US and 10 countries in Europe.

    U can believe everything on the internet. (humor for the dense ones :) )

    Link to their financials

    http://global.ncsoft.com/global/ir/earnings.aspx ;

  • TalulaRoseTalulaRose Long Island, NYPosts: 480Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by evilastro
    Originally posted by FromHell

    I'm not saying this. In fact I think GW2 would never work as a sub game.

    Fact is they don't earn a lot of steady money each month because there is no sub fee and player numbers are rather dwindling.

    The heavy cash shop focus might work for some, but I doubt the broad masses buy treasure chest keys and the other stuff they are selling.

    You keep throwing 'heavy cash shop focus' around in every single GW2 thread. I haven't spent a cent on the cash shop in GW2 and have had no desire or need to.

    What exactly was so essential for you to buy?

    Oh whats that?

    Nothing?

    Then stop being a fool and saying it has a 'heavy cash shop focus'.  The business model they have worked fine for GW1, and it will work fine for GW2. Just because you are used to years of being exploited by companies that charge you for effectively doing very little, doesnt mean that another company cant operate without doing the same.

     

    I haven't spent a cent on the cash shop in GW2 and have had no desire or need to.

     

    Maybe if you and all the others who haven't spent past the box price things wouldn't be looking alittle grim over at NCSoft.

    If the game is so good, why not support it?

  • WraithoneWraithone Salt Lake City, UTPosts: 3,592Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by TalulaRose
    Originally posted by evilastro
    Originally posted by FromHell

    I'm not saying this. In fact I think GW2 would never work as a sub game.

    Fact is they don't earn a lot of steady money each month because there is no sub fee and player numbers are rather dwindling.

    The heavy cash shop focus might work for some, but I doubt the broad masses buy treasure chest keys and the other stuff they are selling.

    You keep throwing 'heavy cash shop focus' around in every single GW2 thread. I haven't spent a cent on the cash shop in GW2 and have had no desire or need to.

    What exactly was so essential for you to buy?

    Oh whats that?

    Nothing?

    Then stop being a fool and saying it has a 'heavy cash shop focus'.  The business model they have worked fine for GW1, and it will work fine for GW2. Just because you are used to years of being exploited by companies that charge you for effectively doing very little, doesnt mean that another company cant operate without doing the same.

     

    I haven't spent a cent on the cash shop in GW2 and have had no desire or need to.

     

    Maybe if you and all the others who haven't spent past the box price things wouldn't be looking alittle grim over at NCSoft.

    If the game is so good, why not support it?

    Anet and NCsoft picked the business model.  One of the differences (between GW1 and GW2) is the economic times we live in.  Their cash shop is long on fluff, and short on anything really necessary. Which some people consider to be a plus. 

    But that does tend to limit their potential profits. 

  • thinktank001thinktank001 oasisPosts: 2,027Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Loke666

    GW2s goal was 3 million copies sold until 31st december (Source: NC soft prelaunch). We know that it sold out abou 2.2 million copies a few weeks after launch. It have sold some more copies since so it probably is somewhere near 2.3-2.6M copies right now.

    That is less than target number but X-mas season is up soon so it might sell more or less.

    But even if it "just" sold minimum copies there is no way that can be the real reason beyond massive layoffs, it still have minimum sold 75% of target numbers and unless someone in NC soft had the silly idea that everyone who bought the game would spend $100+ in the itemshop (which would be impressive even for a F2P game and totally unrealistic) there is no way that is a big enough disaster for NC soft to make massive layoffs.

    So lets think a second, is there some other NC soft games out that have underperformed far under expactations the last few years?

    Well, Aion comes to mind first but there are others as well. Korean (as well as Chinese) made games generally do bad in the west and other companies than NC soft have found out this the hard way as well. 

    But feel free to blame GW2 if it makes you feel better, personally I have wondered why they didnt do this before. GW2 is probably NC softs only game that is popular in the West at the moment. Aion didnt go F2P becuase NC soft wanted to be kind, it couldnt support P2P any longer.

     

    Welcome to the world of the P2W business model.   They don't care about sale numbers.  It is all about item shop numbers.

     

    - " Free " players converted to using the cash shop

    and

    - Amount that players spend

     

    If neither of these two metrics are met, then the game is considered underperforming. 

  • IPolygonIPolygon ViennaPosts: 707Member Uncommon
    Realignment is just that realignment. Several doesn't sound like a big number of layoffs. Wait and see how many are actually affected.
  • Gaia_HunterGaia_Hunter BristolPosts: 2,800Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by thinktank001
    Originally posted by Loke666

    GW2s goal was 3 million copies sold until 31st december (Source: NC soft prelaunch). We know that it sold out abou 2.2 million copies a few weeks after launch. It have sold some more copies since so it probably is somewhere near 2.3-2.6M copies right now.

    That is less than target number but X-mas season is up soon so it might sell more or less.

    But even if it "just" sold minimum copies there is no way that can be the real reason beyond massive layoffs, it still have minimum sold 75% of target numbers and unless someone in NC soft had the silly idea that everyone who bought the game would spend $100+ in the itemshop (which would be impressive even for a F2P game and totally unrealistic) there is no way that is a big enough disaster for NC soft to make massive layoffs.

    So lets think a second, is there some other NC soft games out that have underperformed far under expactations the last few years?

    Well, Aion comes to mind first but there are others as well. Korean (as well as Chinese) made games generally do bad in the west and other companies than NC soft have found out this the hard way as well. 

    But feel free to blame GW2 if it makes you feel better, personally I have wondered why they didnt do this before. GW2 is probably NC softs only game that is popular in the West at the moment. Aion didnt go F2P becuase NC soft wanted to be kind, it couldnt support P2P any longer.

     

    Welcome to the world of the P2W business model.   They don't care about sale numbers.  It is all about item shop numbers.

     

    - " Free " players converted to using the cash shop

    and

    - Amount that players spend

     

    If neither of these two metrics are met, then the game is considered underperforming. 

    Again, and I don't know people dislike facts:

    Anet or NCSoft never announced a GW2 sales targets.

    http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/special/2012/07/182_115061.html

    I expect Guild Wars 2 to sell 3.1 million copies after commercialization in August,” Daewoo Securities analyst Kim Chang-kwean said by telephone. “Since April, the company has received 1 million pre-orders.” He compared the numbers favorably with Aion, of which
    NCsoft had 900,000 pre-orders when it was launched four years ago.

    Who is I?

    Kim, a Daewoo Securities Analyst.

     

     

    Currently playing: GW2
    Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders

  • waynejr2waynejr2 West Toluca Lake, CAPosts: 4,469Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Beatnik59

    The NCSoft stock is taking a beating today.  Also, a savage article appeared in The Korea Times that criticizes NCSoft for the CoH closure:

    http://koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/biz/2012/12/602_126197.html

     Nice link.

  • TalulaRoseTalulaRose Long Island, NYPosts: 480Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Wraithone
    Originally posted by TalulaRose
    Originally posted by evilastro
    Originally posted by FromHell

    I'm not saying this. In fact I think GW2 would never work as a sub game.

    Fact is they don't earn a lot of steady money each month because there is no sub fee and player numbers are rather dwindling.

    The heavy cash shop focus might work for some, but I doubt the broad masses buy treasure chest keys and the other stuff they are selling.

    You keep throwing 'heavy cash shop focus' around in every single GW2 thread. I haven't spent a cent on the cash shop in GW2 and have had no desire or need to.

    What exactly was so essential for you to buy?

    Oh whats that?

    Nothing?

    Then stop being a fool and saying it has a 'heavy cash shop focus'.  The business model they have worked fine for GW1, and it will work fine for GW2. Just because you are used to years of being exploited by companies that charge you for effectively doing very little, doesnt mean that another company cant operate without doing the same.

     

    I haven't spent a cent on the cash shop in GW2 and have had no desire or need to.

     

    Maybe if you and all the others who haven't spent past the box price things wouldn't be looking alittle grim over at NCSoft.

    If the game is so good, why not support it?

    Anet and NCsoft picked the business model.  One of the differences (between GW1 and GW2) is the economic times we live in.  Their cash shop is long on fluff, and short on anything really necessary. Which some people consider to be a plus. 

    But that does tend to limit their potential profits. 

    Good business model if you have other avenues of income...which are faultering. And since GW2 sales will continue to drop off.....it will be hard for NCSoft to justify it...unless they can come up with other sources of income.

     

    Better hope their sub based games can pick up some steam, in the long run its either that or cut people and more people and then a game here or there, followed by more people...maybe get bought out by a bigger company.

     

    Me personally, I am hoping the MMORPG world implodes and it goes back to a niche market.

  • xDracxDrac HamburgPosts: 183Member
    NCSoft would be fine if only they finally said something about a Lineage 3 -.-

    Lineage 3 - www.lineage3-online.com
    Web & Graphic Design - www.xdrac.com

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member

    There is one data point for GW2.

    It is #6 on xfire, ahead of D3. That can't be too bad, business-wise.

  • thetimesthetimes Roseville, MIPosts: 49Member
    Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter
    Originally posted by evolver1972
    Originally posted by thetimes
    Originally posted by korvass

    Isn't NCSoft 'simply' the publisher of GW2? As far as I've seen from videos and interviews, the game is developed entirely by ArenaNet in their own offices.

    Given the evidence that I can see with my own eyes, there's nothing that says GW2 is underperforming.

    NCsoft is the owner and publisher of GW2. NCsoft west is Areanet. NCwest is the office to be "realigned."

    While NCSoft owns ArenaNet, NCWest is not ArenaNet, though ArenaNet may be a part of NCWest; I'm not sure about that.  ArenaNet's offices are located in Bellevue, NCWest is in Seattle.  Two totally different cities.

     

    Since GW2 is one of NCSoft's biggest money makers, I doubt there will be much "realignment" when it comes to ArenaNet.  This is more likely trimming the fat after shutting down CoH and selling Aion.

    NCSoft West isn't Arena.net.

    In fact a few years back (2008) NCSoft moved some people from Anet to NCSoft West, most notably Jeff Strain and Patrick Wyatt.which both left in 2009.

     

    "NCsoft is consolidating their European and U.S. subsidiaries, including ArenaNet, under a single lable, NCsoft West,..."

  • ArclanArclan Chicago, ILPosts: 1,494Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by botrytis
    ALso, if NCSoft and A.Net both have offices in Seattle, why not merge the two. People really want to see GW2 fail. WHY? I never understood the attitude of some people who gleefully jump up and down when a game goes south.  Seems to me, if it was their lively hood that went south, they would want people to at least have sympathy.

    I laugh out of frustration. Game companies are not listening to the market. Millions of us don't really have a game to play. So when another massive venture comes out and tanks, all we can do is laugh and say we told you so.

    Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon.
    In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit

  • botrytisbotrytis In Flux, MIPosts: 2,567Member
    Originally posted by Arclan

     


    Originally posted by botrytis
    ALso, if NCSoft and A.Net both have offices in Seattle, why not merge the two.

     

     

    People really want to see GW2 fail. WHY? I never understood the attitude of some people who gleefully jump up and down when a game goes south.  Seems to me, if it was their lively hood that went south, they would want people to at least have sympathy.

     


     

    I laugh out of frustration. Game companies are not listening to the market. Millions of us don't really have a game to play. So when another massive venture comes out and tanks, all we can do is laugh and say we told you so.

    Somebody is playing the games. Who could they be?

     

    I don't think it is millions - that is an exageration.

    image

    "In 50 years, when I talk to my grandchildren about these days, I'll make sure to mention what an accomplished MMO player I was. They are going to be so proud ..."
    by Naqaj - 7/17/2013 MMORPG.com forum

  • SuprGamerXSuprGamerX Montreal, QCPosts: 531Member

    Lol , it was bound to happen sooner or later , putting every MMO F2P with a cash shop means you are eager on seeing your MMO products in the green by trying to get massive ammount of people to jump in the band wagon and start wasting their money on a pointless cash shop MMO.  

     But it does show one thing , that our MMO community is finally waking up and seeing what the MMO world has to offer us. Every MMO"RPG" type released in recent years are more of the same. 

     It's always sad to see people laid off at this time of year , but it was bound to happen sooner or later.  Heck , it was written in the sky!!

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,633Member Uncommon

    "The insider word on the street was that..."

     

    Awesomeness. I'm going to have to start using that one. image

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • SukiyakiSukiyaki GreenwichPosts: 1,398Member Uncommon

    Lot's of desperate spin in here  from a mere

    " seattles office is realigned and some contracts canceled"

    "no details how much"

    "no concrete reasons known"

    "no closer or distant plans regarding this matter announced yet"

    and the usually deliberately ignored/denied "eveything including financials points at GW2 as a financial success"

    "financials reports look good. doing better than almost any other Western MMORPG publisher"


    Some people here are trying a bit too hard. Mad GW2 is a success and driving? Or just still mad about CoH? Or just WoW (or any other MMORPGs) fanbois trying to distract from their own games much worse (or equally "negative") financial trend?

    Even in massively's article is pushing the drama too far again (likely from the same massively autor continously bashing NCSoft, who painted even an acquisition by NCSoft of another company as something bad because it pressed on their profits). Meanwhile no word of them about Blizzards financial much worse "losses" by the same definitions of Massively, because thats a big nono. No the opposite the other is hailed for their profits while both are profitable.

  • botrytisbotrytis In Flux, MIPosts: 2,567Member

    “NCsoft is realigning internal publishing resources to better suit the needs of our game development studios,” Davis told PC Gamer. “As a result of the realignment, several employees and contract positions were affected. This was a very tough decision to make and wish the best for all NCsoft employees in their next ventures.”

     

    This all the aritcle states really on PC Gamer. People are reading in alot into SEVERAL positions.

     

    Get real people.

    image

    "In 50 years, when I talk to my grandchildren about these days, I'll make sure to mention what an accomplished MMO player I was. They are going to be so proud ..."
    by Naqaj - 7/17/2013 MMORPG.com forum

  • rojoArcueidrojoArcueid hell, NJPosts: 6,753Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by botrytis

    ALso, if NCSoft and A.Net both have offices in Seattle, why not merge the two.

     

    People really want to see GW2 fail. WHY? I never understood the attitude of some people who gleefully jump up and down when a game goes south.  Seems to me, if it was their lively hood that went south, they would want people to at least have sympathy.

    since these people cant make their own games they need to pick on companies that make good games and look for any reason to wish for their demise. Why not get a degree and make their own dream games and avoid crying altogether? lol

    Players feedback is important for game improvements, but instead of suggesting good changes or constructive criticism, they prefer to wish failure upon gamemakers.

    image
  • ForumPvPForumPvP KingstownPosts: 871Member
    .

     

    Let's internet

  • ForumPvPForumPvP KingstownPosts: 871Member
    Originally posted by ForumPvP

    There was a time when buying gold was a bad thing,so bad that it could hurt the company.

    Now ,if you dont buy gold  ,then company  will die.

     

     

    Let's internet

  • botrytisbotrytis In Flux, MIPosts: 2,567Member
    Originally posted by ForumPvP
    Originally posted by ForumPvP

    There was a time when buying gold was a bad thing,so bad that it could hurt the company.

    Now ,if you dont buy gold  ,then company  will die.

     

     

    Buying gold is still bad - who says it isn't?

     

    Read what I posted above yours - people making mountains out of molehills again.

    image

    "In 50 years, when I talk to my grandchildren about these days, I'll make sure to mention what an accomplished MMO player I was. They are going to be so proud ..."
    by Naqaj - 7/17/2013 MMORPG.com forum

  • maplestonemaplestone Ottawa, ONPosts: 3,099Member
    My sympathies to all affected.  Sorry I don't have infinite pockets.
  • WraithoneWraithone Salt Lake City, UTPosts: 3,592Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Sukiyaki

    Lot's of desperate spin in here  from a mere

    " seattles office is realigned and some contracts canceled"

    "no details how much"

    "no concrete reasons known"

    "no closer or distant plans regarding this matter announced yet"

    and the usually deliberately ignored/denied "eveything including financials points at GW2 as a financial success"

    "financials reports look good. doing better than almost any other Western MMORPG publisher"


    Some people here are trying a bit too hard. Mad GW2 is a success and driving? Or just still mad about CoH? Or just WoW (or any other MMORPGs) fanbois trying to distract from their own games much worse (or equally "negative") financial trend?

    Even in massively's article is pushing the drama too far again (likely from the same massively autor continously bashing NCSoft, who painted even an acquisition by NCSoft of another company as something bad because it pressed on their profits). Meanwhile no word of them about Blizzards financial much worse "losses" by the same definitions of Massively, because thats a big nono. No the opposite the other is hailed for their profits while both are profitable.

    No real need to "try hard". NCsoft makes a long habit of shooting itself in the foot, in terms of its western operations.  Its come to the point that their reputation is almost as low as Nexons in some circles. One need not be a "hater" to take note of their past actions, and attitudes. 

    As for Blizzard, they have their own problems. But thats only to be expected at this point. 

  • KuppaKuppa Boulder, COPosts: 3,292Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by DMKano

    The insider word on the street was that GW2 was underperforming, this pretty much confirms those rumors. 

    I hope all those affected land on their feet - layoffs during holiday season is just heartless.

    Where did you get this "insider word on the street"?

    image


    image

  • botrytisbotrytis In Flux, MIPosts: 2,567Member
    Originally posted by maplestone
    My sympathies to all affected.  Sorry I don't have infinite pockets.

    It is sad that it happens. I have been there and it is not fun.

     

    Here is hoping the people who are laid off find postions quickly and to have a Good Christmas.

    image

    "In 50 years, when I talk to my grandchildren about these days, I'll make sure to mention what an accomplished MMO player I was. They are going to be so proud ..."
    by Naqaj - 7/17/2013 MMORPG.com forum

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