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Aventurine underestimated the force of dedicated crafters

2

Comments

  • sunny_liftonsunny_lifton platteville, WIPosts: 23Member
    I think the problem with limiting crafting is that you can only have 1 char per account.  The reason this worked in UO is because you could have multiple alts.  It would take too long for a solo player to have to hunt out a gear set after dieing to be able to get out and pvp.
  • BadaboomBadaboom Moose Jaw, SKPosts: 2,380Member
    @ sunny. You would buy multiple sets. When you are in a pinch you would where monster dropped gear.
  • WulfynWulfyn YeovilPosts: 19Member

    To all the people saying that Darkfall is not about crafting it is about full loot I have a question : why do all the items have attrition? If it is about being able to rob gear off of other people and not about making new stuff then why do all items have a usage limit before they break. Eventually gear, no matter how often it is passed around, will break.

     

    How do you account for that being in the game if crafting doesn't matter?

    www.ygworlds.net

  • LahuzerLahuzer BorPosts: 668Member Uncommon

    I was saddened to hear that every1 would eventually be able to make everything. I like my crafting, and I want my crafting in a sandbox to be complex and fun. Hopefully AV can listen to the nerd cries all over about crafting, and can fix it down the line. But I guess I´m hoping for to much here. To much focus on the PVP it seems. Even though I like that aspect as much as the next guy, I would have loved a decent crafting system and a flourishing economy that comes from it as well.

    And to tell us crafting lovers that it´s to late to cry about this now and  that we should have done it earlier. Well, we just found out how it´s gonna be now. The desire for a more complexed crafting system has been there all the time.

  • thinktank001thinktank001 oasisPosts: 2,027Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Wulfyn

    To all the people saying that Darkfall is not about crafting it is about full loot I have a question : why do all the items have attrition? If it is about being able to rob gear off of other people and not about making new stuff then why do all items have a usage limit before they break. Eventually gear, no matter how often it is passed around, will break.

     

    How do you account for that being in the game if crafting doesn't matter?

     

    Nobody said it wasn't about crafting, and about full loot.   It is all about PvP and designing the crafting to supplement it.   If  DF:UW was really about making a full fledge MMO, then they would be changing it and a few orther game mechanics to support a healthy economy.   However, crafting is unchanged from the original because it needs to support PvP.

  • stonyleinstonylein ViennaPosts: 59Member Uncommon

    1 topic dominating the forum? rotfl you should stop taking drugs, kid. there were 2 or 3 people who spammed a few threads about this but noone actually cared and they are almost all vanished already.

     

    also, tasos already announced there wont be any crafting limits so this is completely futile.

  • DarthRaidenDarthRaiden gdfgfPosts: 4,333Member
    Originally posted by stonylein

    1 topic dominating the forum? rotfl you should stop taking drugs, kid. there were 2 or 3 people who spammed a few threads about this but noone actually cared and they are almost all vanished already.

     

    also, tasos already announced there wont be any crafting limits so this is completely futile.

    Way to reinterpret the result of 75,22% on official forum DON'T like the way of how AV treats crafting in DF:UW.

     

    75,22% of DF playerbase  say NO to DF:UW crafting, 24,22% think its ok for no limititaion.

     

    also posts on various crafting topics on first page = 400+ 

    with second being "get rid of global messages" = 100+  (another sandbox related topic and request) 

     

    -----MY-TERMS-OF-USE--------------------------------------------------
    $OE - eternal enemy of online gaming
    -We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!

    "There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)

  • GenadiGenadi BrisbanePosts: 110Member
    Originally posted by stonylein

    1 topic dominating the forum? rotfl you should stop taking drugs, kid. there were 2 or 3 people who spammed a few threads about this but noone actually cared and they are almost all vanished already.

     

    also, tasos already announced there wont be any crafting limits so this is completely futile.

    He said in the same interview about 10 times that "this isn't set in stone" and "we really want player feedback about this".

     

    Calling someone kid on the internet to further your point was redundant in 2000.

  • sakkdaddysakkdaddy SandnesPosts: 45Member

    I don't think that it's so worthwhile to get bent out of shape with their decision.  I personally prefer more depth to things like crafting, and also other sandbox elements that are even less related to combat and conquest.  However, this isn't going to be a big deal at release either way.  Limiting crafting specialities is only one approach to having a healthy economy.  It looks like they are focusing more on raw resources as a way to stimulate a healthy economy over crafting specialities, and that approach has some obvious gameplay benefits as well.

    I think that it would be cool to have crafting roles that could be changed just like other roles though.  Gatherers would have skills to help track nodes and escape gankers.  Seigemasters could have big passive defensive bonuses but minimal offensive skills and be able to transport heavier loads.  That kind of thing.

     

    This close to release though, I wouldn't start yelling that the sky is falling over such a small design decision.  I just want the game to release so I can get my fix.

  • DarthRaidenDarthRaiden gdfgfPosts: 4,333Member
    Originally posted by sakkdaddy

    I don't think that it's so worthwhile to get bent out of shape with their decision.  I personally prefer more depth to things like crafting, and also other sandbox elements that are even less related to combat and conquest.  However, this isn't going to be a big deal at release either way.  Limiting crafting specialities is only one approach to having a healthy economy.  It looks like they are focusing more on raw resources as a way to stimulate a healthy economy over crafting specialities, and that approach has some obvious gameplay benefits as well.

    I think that it would be cool to have crafting roles that could be changed just like other roles though.  Gatherers would have skills to help track nodes and escape gankers.  Seigemasters could have big passive defensive bonuses but minimal offensive skills and be able to transport heavier loads.  That kind of thing.

     

    This close to release though, I wouldn't start yelling that the sky is falling over such a small design decision.  I just want the game to release so I can get my fix.

    Then what ?  wait for meaningfull crafting  like for promised 4-legged run ?

    -----MY-TERMS-OF-USE--------------------------------------------------
    $OE - eternal enemy of online gaming
    -We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!

    "There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)

  • sakkdaddysakkdaddy SandnesPosts: 45Member

    Then be thankful that we get a new game, and hope that it truly solves the most important failings of DF1.  Reducing grind, dropping the need to macro 24-7, fixing bugs, and adding the role system are all great changes.  I'm happy to play the game even if it doesn't have everything that I want, as long as these core features are done well.

     

    A lack of specialty crafting roles just isn't a release-killer.  They are more of a 'very nice to have' feature.

  • Aragon100Aragon100 OsloPosts: 2,224Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by stonylein

    1 topic dominating the forum? rotfl you should stop taking drugs, kid. there were 2 or 3 people who spammed a few threads about this but noone actually cared and they are almost all vanished already.

     

    also, tasos already announced there wont be any crafting limits so this is completely futile.

    Stop believing your own lies. 75% of the players that voted dislike today crafting system. That is a vast majority. And there are new crafting threads popping up almost every day. Players want a needed change.

    And kid, ROFL, i been arround in one of the most successful hardcore PvP-guilds since UO beta -97 so do the math. We also love complex gaming so a better economy and crafting that give us the players a more interesting game is why i make these threads, who know, maybe Tasos read it? =)

     

  • SabbathSMCSabbathSMC Katy, TXPosts: 226Member

    anyone saying crafting is not a big part of this game has thier head up thier ASS. I played the first one and i was pretty much dedicated crafter. Where do you think all those ships come from? you can just roll up and make one, it takes dedicated crafters.

    Weapons armor as well. sure you can get drops as good or better than crafted items but they were lining up for my crafted bows and arrows. And when it came time for ships who do you think was making them lol.

     

    crafters are a much larger part of this game than people realise. and it shows by the poll.

    played M59,UO,lineage,EQ,Daoc,Entropia,SWG,Horizons,Lineage2.EQ2,Vangaurd,Irth online, DarkFall,Star Trek
    and many others that did not make the cut or i just plain forgetting about.

  • stonyleinstonylein ViennaPosts: 59Member Uncommon

    75% rotfl i love how delusional some trolls are

     

    of the 30 people that even did take part in the multiple polls asking the same question, the majority basically just said "no crafting limits" every single time. but who cares anyway. its just funny watching sheep with their futile attempts to change something.

  • DarthRaidenDarthRaiden gdfgfPosts: 4,333Member
    Originally posted by stonylein

    75% rotfl i love how delusional some trolls are

     

    of the 30 people that even did take part in the multiple polls asking the same question, the majority basically just said "no crafting limits" every single time. but who cares anyway. its just funny watching sheep with their futile attempts to change something.

    And all i see here that makes this false statemenst  is you, thats 1,  the world is not circle around you there is more then you around you, if you ever notice.

    The was 116 voters on that single pole alone of which only 26 supported the "no limit" option..thats in the HQ of AV on their OWN forums, the DF playerbase DONT LIKE THE NO LIMIT OPTION .

     

     

    -----MY-TERMS-OF-USE--------------------------------------------------
    $OE - eternal enemy of online gaming
    -We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!

    "There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)

  • stonyleinstonylein ViennaPosts: 59Member Uncommon
    dude i have no clue what you are babbling in your fear, but the few polls i clicked and watched all clearly showed the vast majority against the crafting limitation choices. maybe i missed one poll where the majority voted for bewbz instead of no limit, could be.
  • DarthRaidenDarthRaiden gdfgfPosts: 4,333Member
    Originally posted by stonylein
    dude i have no clue what you are babbling in your fear, but the few polls i clicked and watched all clearly showed the vast majority against the crafting limitation choices. maybe i missed one poll where the majority voted for bewbz instead of no limit, could be.

    You are not looking more smart if you use "kid" or "trolls" or "dude" to make some statements.

    Maybe use the forums the proper way  ? 

    http://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?t=334728

    -----MY-TERMS-OF-USE--------------------------------------------------
    $OE - eternal enemy of online gaming
    -We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!

    "There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)

  • SiveriaSiveria Saint John, New BrunswickPosts: 1,200Member Uncommon

    I don't think it matters much tbh,. the game will be dead in about 3 months due to the fact it has full loot gankfest-type pvp, if it removed the full looting it may have a chance, though a small one, but I doubt they will, since mainly greifers will be playing dw:uw. I think having full looting should be a choice, and here is how it works, if you have full looting turned on, if you die ppl can loot you, if you kill someone you can loot them, if you have looting shutoff and the other guy has it on, no matter who kills who they won't be able to loot each other. Make it so the first agressor in a fight if attacking someone with looting off, will still drop their stuff. bascally something needs to be done to balance it because having to replace items gets very old very fast in a game like this that is bascally a gank/greif fest. I used to play a mmo called redmoon years back, if you died you lost half the exp you had as well as drop most of your shit, this was increadbly annoying because then you have to run, naked (unless your smart like I was and kept extras in bank) back to the high level zones to replace your gear, it got really old really quickly.

     

    With the amount of ganking and greifing that will be going on in dw:uw, I am sure alot of players who try the game will end up quitting just because of how utterly annoying it is. The point of pvp is to have fun, not to be given items for doing it. This is what has killed most of these games like this, the average mmo player sees them shouting about full loot pvp and just decides to pass on the game. I myself don't mind ffa pvp, it can be fun, but the full looting aspect really turns me away from bothering with dw:uw especally after how shitastic the first game was.

    Little do the greifers know it but, they are usually the ones responsable for ffa pvp games going under, new players don't like to get ganked when they just starting out, and although df:uw has some newbie protection, once they leave the first zone (I am assuming the first zone will be pvp free) it'll be the same thing with max levels ganking any low lv that walks out of town, which then they eventually get sick of it and cancel and move on. Has killed MO, first darkfall, eve online would have died if they never implemented plex, it was going to shutdown at one point till the plex system came out, and countless other games like these. Who wants to buy a uber weapon when your probally going to die and someone will just loot it anyway. This is why full looting in a game is just pointless, its counter productive, especally in a game where items matter.

    Being a pessimist is a win-win pattern of thinking. If you're a pessimist (I'll admit that I am!) you're either:

    A. Proven right (if something bad happens)

    or

    B. Pleasantly surprised (if something good happens)

    Either way, you can't lose! Try it out sometime!

  • psykobillypsykobilly NYC, NYPosts: 338Member

     

    Darkfall crafting is shit... why would anyone wanna be a dedicated Darkfall crafter?

    Staffcrafting rank 0 - make a lot of rank zero staffs til you get rank 1.

    Staffcrafting rank1 - make a lot of rank 1 staffs til you get to rank2. etc. etc.

    Seriously that is fun for people?  The crafting system is uncreative, completely themepark,  and is just a grindy means to an end (pvp).  Being able to make selentine cloth or theyril leather doesn't really change the themepark aspect of the crafting system.

    As much as I hate Mortal Online, at least its a sandbox crafting system which was fun to experiment with.  Also liked manufacturing in EVE and Perpetuum.  Darkfall crafting?  Boring.

     

  • phantomghostphantomghost Atlanta, GAPosts: 696Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Siveria

    I don't think it matters much tbh,. the game will be dead in about 3 months due to the fact it has full loot gankfest-type pvp, if it removed the full looting it may have a chance, though a small one, but I doubt they will, since mainly greifers will be playing dw:uw. I think having full looting should be a choice, and here is how it works, if you have full looting turned on, if you die ppl can loot you, if you kill someone you can loot them, if you have looting shutoff and the other guy has it on, no matter who kills who they won't be able to loot each other. Make it so the first agressor in a fight if attacking someone with looting off, will still drop their stuff. bascally something needs to be done to balance it because having to replace items gets very old very fast in a game like this that is bascally a gank/greif fest. I used to play a mmo called redmoon years back, if you died you lost half the exp you had as well as drop most of your shit, this was increadbly annoying because then you have to run, naked (unless your smart like I was and kept extras in bank) back to the high level zones to replace your gear, it got really old really quickly.

     

    With the amount of ganking and greifing that will be going on in dw:uw, I am sure alot of players who try the game will end up quitting just because of how utterly annoying it is. The point of pvp is to have fun, not to be given items for doing it. This is what has killed most of these games like this, the average mmo player sees them shouting about full loot pvp and just decides to pass on the game. I myself don't mind ffa pvp, it can be fun, but the full looting aspect really turns me away from bothering with dw:uw especally after how shitastic the first game was.

    Little do the greifers know it but, they are usually the ones responsable for ffa pvp games going under, new players don't like to get ganked when they just starting out, and although df:uw has some newbie protection, once they leave the first zone (I am assuming the first zone will be pvp free) it'll be the same thing with max levels ganking any low lv that walks out of town, which then they eventually get sick of it and cancel and move on. Has killed MO, first darkfall, eve online would have died if they never implemented plex, it was going to shutdown at one point till the plex system came out, and countless other games like these. Who wants to buy a uber weapon when your probally going to die and someone will just loot it anyway. This is why full looting in a game is just pointless, its counter productive, especally in a game where items matter.

    The game is not a gank/grief fest.  The majority of the players are anti-griefers.

     

    Gear is very easily obtainable, therefore losing your gear is not a big deal, you will have plenty of it.  Join a clan, clans will keep you entertained and geared.

     

    There are not really zones, but rather area's that are non-pvp, this will allow newer players to be more acquanted with the game mechanics before moving on.  The player chooses what they lose, by deciding to carry it.  If you are out farming, you will learn to farm in numbers, or bank often.  This will also help improve your PvP as sometimes you will need to fight instead of run to protect your loot.

     

    You keep saying especially in a game where items matter, so you are not talking about Darkfall.  The items do not matter much at all.  Most gear people will use is easily obtainable, so it is very replacable.  That uber weapon you talk about, will be found on various mobs and crafters will make them very often.  You could easily save gold up in the starting area and build yourself a nice supply of gear/weapons before moving out into the more dangerous areas.

     

    You seem very misinformed and it shows you have not played DF yet, give it a try if they offer a free trial for this one eventually, you will see how easily gear is obtained.

    photo SIG_zpszteuyd0ejpg
  • SabbathSMCSabbathSMC Katy, TXPosts: 226Member

    I agree, its not as much of a gank fest as everyone is making it out to be. Will thier be ganking and griefing yes. but its not as wide spread as some are making it out to be. It was amazing watching full on wars with around 1000 people all at one time.

    Is the crafting system junk, pretty much, but they are definately needed to complete some of the fluff that goes with the game.

    played M59,UO,lineage,EQ,Daoc,Entropia,SWG,Horizons,Lineage2.EQ2,Vangaurd,Irth online, DarkFall,Star Trek
    and many others that did not make the cut or i just plain forgetting about.

  • stonyleinstonylein ViennaPosts: 59Member Uncommon

    yeah right...removing full loot lol...

     

    this forum is full of carebears, why dont you stick to world of warcraft and stop trying to ruin the few good games?

  • Aragon100Aragon100 OsloPosts: 2,224Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by stonylein

    yeah right...removing full loot lol...

     

    this forum is full of carebears, why dont you stick to world of warcraft and stop trying to ruin the few good games?

    Full loot is one of the main reasons i want to play Darkfall UW.

    With no consequences a game get boring really fast.

    A better crafting system that really is hard to master (not for everyone) would also make the game less carebear.

     

     

  • KaminaxiusKaminaxius AdibijaPosts: 101Member
    Originally posted by Siveria

    I don't think it matters much tbh,. the game will be dead in about 3 months due to the fact it has full loot gankfest-type pvp, if it removed the full looting it may have a chance, though a small one, but I doubt they will, since mainly greifers will be playing dw:uw. I think having full looting should be a choice, and here is how it works, if you have full looting turned on, if you die ppl can loot you, if you kill someone you can loot them, if you have looting shutoff and the other guy has it on, no matter who kills who they won't be able to loot each other. Make it so the first agressor in a fight if attacking someone with looting off, will still drop their stuff. bascally something needs to be done to balance it because having to replace items gets very old very fast in a game like this that is bascally a gank/greif fest. I used to play a mmo called redmoon years back, if you died you lost half the exp you had as well as drop most of your shit, this was increadbly annoying because then you have to run, naked (unless your smart like I was and kept extras in bank) back to the high level zones to replace your gear, it got really old really quickly.

     

    With the amount of ganking and greifing that will be going on in dw:uw, I am sure alot of players who try the game will end up quitting just because of how utterly annoying it is. The point of pvp is to have fun, not to be given items for doing it. This is what has killed most of these games like this, the average mmo player sees them shouting about full loot pvp and just decides to pass on the game. I myself don't mind ffa pvp, it can be fun, but the full looting aspect really turns me away from bothering with dw:uw especally after how shitastic the first game was.

    Little do the greifers know it but, they are usually the ones responsable for ffa pvp games going under, new players don't like to get ganked when they just starting out, and although df:uw has some newbie protection, once they leave the first zone (I am assuming the first zone will be pvp free) it'll be the same thing with max levels ganking any low lv that walks out of town, which then they eventually get sick of it and cancel and move on. Has killed MO, first darkfall, eve online would have died if they never implemented plex, it was going to shutdown at one point till the plex system came out, and countless other games like these. Who wants to buy a uber weapon when your probally going to die and someone will just loot it anyway. This is why full looting in a game is just pointless, its counter productive, especally in a game where items matter.

    Would you look at that.

     

    Stop posting here please, this game is not for you, and It was NEVER intended for you.

    Seems like you want the game to turn into another WoW, GW2, Rift ultra mainstream MMO clone.

     

    No. This is a niche game. If you don't like it there are plenty mainstream carebear ''o look at my shiny pixels please don't take them away from me'' mmorpgs out there for you to choose from.

  • WulfynWulfyn YeovilPosts: 19Member
    Originally posted by thinktank001
    Originally posted by Wulfyn

    To all the people saying that Darkfall is not about crafting it is about full loot I have a question : why do all the items have attrition? If it is about being able to rob gear off of other people and not about making new stuff then why do all items have a usage limit before they break. Eventually gear, no matter how often it is passed around, will break.

     

    How do you account for that being in the game if crafting doesn't matter?

     

    Nobody said it wasn't about crafting, and about full loot.   It is all about PvP and designing the crafting to supplement it.   If  DF:UW was really about making a full fledge MMO, then they would be changing it and a few orther game mechanics to support a healthy economy.   However, crafting is unchanged from the original because it needs to support PvP.

     

    Well for a start Winter did say just that (post 16). Maybe you need to reread the thread?

     

    And what changesto the crafting system would be made (your post is short on specifics). For example the crafting in Eve is very similar to Darkfall (gather mats, put in box, wait).

    www.ygworlds.net

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