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Why PVP scares some people?

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  • maccarthur2004maccarthur2004 SPosts: 510Member
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by maccarthur2004
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by maccarthur200

    however, the pvp is so more complex and fun than pve...

    For you. You still haven't wrapped your head around that part yet.

    Quote the full sentence please. My quoted post and that big one that opened that sequence of quotes explain everything.

    As YOU said, pve isn't made by killing mobs for fun, but killing mobs to obtain things, and my quoted phrase refers to the fight itself excluding the rewards.

    Your command of the English language seems to miraculously improve for certain posts. ;)

     

    Do you mean something with this or are just praising? :D

    "What we are aiming in ArcheAge is to let the players feel the true fun of MMORPG by forming a community like real life by interacting with other players, whether it be conflict or cooperation." (Jake Song)

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  • Cephus404Cephus404 Redlands, CAPosts: 3,675Member
    Originally posted by maccarthur2004

    As YOU said, pve isn't made by killing mobs for fun, but killing mobs to obtain things, and my quoted phrase refers to the fight itself excluding the rewards.

     

     

    I think killing mobs, just for the sake of killing mobs, is very fun.  That's half the reason people play shooters, just to kill things.  They rarely ever get something special for each mob they kill, it's the joy of mowing down enemies that they want, not the rewards that they get for doing so.

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  • Caliburn101Caliburn101 LondonPosts: 636Member
    Originally posted by maccarthur2004
    Originally posted by Caliburn101

    The fact is, PvP players fall roughly into two camps (and yes, I know many bridge it too) - the ones who enjoy the challenge and playstyle, and the ones who get a buzz from one-sided encounters, ganking and endless insults afterwards - the kinds of people who will try their hardest to utterly ruin the online experience of other people and then wail endlessly if any controls are put in place - guards, consequence systems, flags etc.

    The OP does seem to empathise with the latter type of player. Seriously thinking that a desire to avoid the 'borstal playground' bahaviour of such PvP players is an issue of 'fear' is clearly ridiculous. To think it is a factor is more of an indication of the mindset of the person asking the question than it will ever be of those refered to.

     

    You are completely wrong. Read my others posts and see for yourself if i like gankers or no. In one of these posts, i advocate a system where a high lv player has your lv automaticaly decreased when entering a lower lv zone.

     

     

    Then you claim to fall squarely into the first of my definitions - 'the ones who enjoy the challenge and playstyle'?

    You now appear to be contradicting your own thread title - perhaps you might want to change it now - to something less bias and dismissive perhaps?

    It would seem to me that you have changed the tune somewhat after considering that you look a little extreme in your original point of view.

    ... but that of course is my opinion. It is possible you didn't intend to come off as the latter type of PvP'er - might I suggest less perjorative statements in future - labels on boxes are the shorthand of internet communication - and you appeared to be firmly squared away in Box B...

  • BrianshoBriansho Woodbridge, VAPosts: 4,779Member Uncommon

    If PVP is part of the game out of the box I can't understand why people whine and complain. You paid for the game and a subscription to put yourself through pain.

    I can understand if people get upset of a few years down the road the company makes changes to the game and adds PVP. If so you can stop paying them, no one is forcing anyone to play these games.

    Don't be terrorized! You're more likely to die of a car accident, drowning, fire, or murder! More people die every year from prescription drugs than terrorism LOL!

  • echolynfanecholynfan Lancaster, PAPosts: 681Member
    Originally posted by Caliburn101

    The fact is, PvP players fall roughly into two camps (and yes, I know many bridge it too) - the ones who enjoy the challenge and playstyle, and the ones who get a buzz from one-sided encounters, ganking and endless insults afterwards - the kinds of people who will try their hardest to utterly ruin the online experience of other people and then wail endlessly if any controls are put in place - guards, consequence systems, flags etc.

    The OP does seem to empathise with the latter type of player. Seriously thinking that a desire to avoid the 'borstal playground' bahaviour of such PvP players is an issue of 'fear' is clearly ridiculous. To think it is a factor is more of an indication of the mindset of the person asking the question than it will ever be of those refered to.

    Great point and I agree. One game in particular - Darkfall Online - was brutal with this type of player. PVP to these online cretins is all about griefing and ruining another player's time and the full corpse looting helped to REALLY bring out the best in these asshats.

    Darkfall is re-releasing their game and for very good reason: players would quit very shortly after starting because of roving bands of skilled up players that could beat even geared players - NAKED. Yep...I had been playing for 3 months solid....not casually mind you but hardcore and even geared up I still didn't have a chance against a naked griefer. 

    The tipping point for me was when a member of my own faction debuffed me while I was fighting a mob just outside of a town - waited for me to die and then looted my corpse. Then he laughed and taunted me and the best part is: he received no penalty for this action because debuffing was not considered an offense against a same faction player.

    Now - I don't "fear" PVP - I love it and I know ganking is part of PVP but when it consists of players not looking for compeitive play and their only goal is to grief players - PVP ceases to be fun. For example - when I would see a much lower level player than myself - I'd just go about my way since there's no contest but griefers go OUT OF THEIR WAY to kill lower level players. It's safe for them and they feel powerful but just like bullies in real life they're just cowards.

    Currently playing SWTOR and it's MUCH better than it was at launch.

  • Crunchy222Crunchy222 new york, ILPosts: 386Member

    I can agree that the worst of the worst within the pvp community always reside in optional and zero risk pvp games like WOW, SWTOR or GW2.  Theres no risk to running your mouth ect, you can always leave the battleground and if you die its no big deal.

    Play a game like EvE/Perpetuum/Darkfall where your stuff goes boom or gets looted, where getting the wrong people mad can result in guilds farming you ect...tends to make the kids rage quit.

     

    I think the ultimate factor in the PVE "only" crowd is that they want everything to be absolutely perfict before pvping.  These are the people in themeparks you ask to duel, agree, take 15 min preparing what should be a quick match, lose, then come back to you 30min later stating they are actually now ready to fight.

    Bottom line is these people want a near guranteed victory before agreeing to pvp.  For some reason losing is a huge deal.  This is why they stick to pve mobs, predictible and easy to kill.

     

    Also, i see the common anit-pvp players fantasy dream of games like DF....MINDLESS griefing, FORCED pvp, KIDS harassing,  GANK FEST!!! NIGHT MARE SCENARIOS AHHHH!!!!!!   Reality is these guys dont play pvp games let alone full loot or FFA games, and the ones they probably have played were f2p cash shop games that really were full of kids griefing due to lack of mechanics.

    The truth behind most full loot games is that its a needed mechanic, loss of gear, to feed pve/crafing/resourcing.  The gear that is lost isnt your WOW raid gear that took you a month to get up to the ability to start grinding each tier though months of loot rolls on what you need over and over and over untill you get you final set of purples.  Its nothing like that.

    Think, you mine for 10 min, bank, chop wood for 10min, bank, farm a few specific mobs for drops, bank.  Refine raw mats, combine with tool, make 10 sets of gear.   Hell in DF people were giving noobs gear they had so much, which leads you to believe that there wasnt enough FFA pvp.

    To top it all off, good pvpers typically flock to games with high risk pvp, good pvpers are not interested in pvping that noobs standing facing a tree most likely with the tutorial help fire open.  Even less interested in the horrid gear you probably posses.

     

     

    To sum it up i feel that this anti-pvp crowd likes it easy and victories guranteed, and are not scared of pvp just cannot handle a situation that is difficult, unpredictable, and where they havent done a 30min prep for whatever reason before pvping.  If its not easy to succeed its not fun to them.  On top of that they view ffa full loot games though fantasy blinders where they have convinced themselves how the game plays exactly without ever setting foot in the game. 

     

     

  • AeliousAelious Portland, ORPosts: 2,854Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Briansho

    If PVP is part of the game out of the box I can't understand why people whine and complain. You paid for the game and a subscription to put yourself through pain.

    I can understand if people get upset of a few years down the road the company makes changes to the game and adds PVP. If so you can stop paying them, no one is forcing anyone to play these games.

     

    You are correct.  The problem here is that the OP is wondering what is wrong with people who don't like PvP.  It gets brought up all the time and serves for entertainment here I guess.

  • forbiddeneyesforbiddeneyes Daytona Beach, FLPosts: 1Member
    Not a big fan of PvP because some ppl take it way to serious but that is my opinion.
  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member

    PvP doesn't scare me. You want to know what scares me? Trying to get a one armed man to use a ladder to get across an alley in The Walking Dead. You know what else scares me? Those things in Amnesia: The Dark Descent. You know what else scares me? Being robbed at gun point (true story). Even scarier was a doctor telling me to keep a hand on my child's chest to make sure she was still breathing while he stitched up her eye (another true story). Those things are scary. PvP? Not so much.

    That doesn't mean that I want to spend my time in an open world PvP game. I prefer team based PvP, whether it's in a PvP zone, a game based around team based PvP or an instanced PvP battleground. I don't have that much interest in dueling, especially with people who will only duel me when they know they can win.

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • BloodaxesBloodaxes ZabbarPosts: 2,651Member Uncommon

    Pvp is really not for me.

     

    I feel bad killing someone behind their backs but if I want to fight I can enter some pvp zone or battleground but don't force it on me everywhere or I'll say goodbye.

    Doesn't mean I'm scared or anything like that, simply I'm a gentle guy who doesn't find joy in ruining other people time and I expect the same done to me unless you are in some battleground or pvp/war zone.

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  • killion81killion81 A City, MIPosts: 985Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Crunchy222

    I can agree that the worst of the worst within the pvp community always reside in optional and zero risk pvp games like WOW, SWTOR or GW2.  Theres no risk to running your mouth ect, you can always leave the battleground and if you die its no big deal.

    Play a game like EvE/Perpetuum/Darkfall where your stuff goes boom or gets looted, where getting the wrong people mad can result in guilds farming you ect...tends to make the kids rage quit.

     

    I think the ultimate factor in the PVE "only" crowd is that they want everything to be absolutely perfict before pvping.  These are the people in themeparks you ask to duel, agree, take 15 min preparing what should be a quick match, lose, then come back to you 30min later stating they are actually now ready to fight.

    Bottom line is these people want a near guranteed victory before agreeing to pvp.  For some reason losing is a huge deal.  This is why they stick to pve mobs, predictible and easy to kill.

     

    Also, i see the common anit-pvp players fantasy dream of games like DF....MINDLESS griefing, FORCED pvp, KIDS harassing,  GANK FEST!!! NIGHT MARE SCENARIOS AHHHH!!!!!!   Reality is these guys dont play pvp games let alone full loot or FFA games, and the ones they probably have played were f2p cash shop games that really were full of kids griefing due to lack of mechanics.

    The truth behind most full loot games is that its a needed mechanic, loss of gear, to feed pve/crafing/resourcing.  The gear that is lost isnt your WOW raid gear that took you a month to get up to the ability to start grinding each tier though months of loot rolls on what you need over and over and over untill you get you final set of purples.  Its nothing like that.

    Think, you mine for 10 min, bank, chop wood for 10min, bank, farm a few specific mobs for drops, bank.  Refine raw mats, combine with tool, make 10 sets of gear.   Hell in DF people were giving noobs gear they had so much, which leads you to believe that there wasnt enough FFA pvp.

    To top it all off, good pvpers typically flock to games with high risk pvp, good pvpers are not interested in pvping that noobs standing facing a tree most likely with the tutorial help fire open.  Even less interested in the horrid gear you probably posses.

     

     

    To sum it up i feel that this anti-pvp crowd likes it easy and victories guranteed, and are not scared of pvp just cannot handle a situation that is difficult, unpredictable, and where they havent done a 30min prep for whatever reason before pvping.  If its not easy to succeed its not fun to them.  On top of that they view ffa full loot games though fantasy blinders where they have convinced themselves how the game plays exactly without ever setting foot in the game. 

     

    FFA loot doesn't help drive an economy.  Destruction of goods, such as when a space ship blows up in EVE, is what drives economy.  Stuff that is being created from thin air (mob drop and gathered mats) needs to go poof into thin air somehow.

     

    That being said, I'm pretty sure that a very small percentage of players ever completed the hardest WoW raids as they were released.  The 'hard mode' raids were really quite difficult.  It took outstanding knowledge of your character, min/maxing, research of mechanics, and flawless execution of strategy on a large scale.  Most PvP encounters are fairly predictable, especially to good players.  They know what the enemy is going to use, what they will counter with, what the enemy will counter them with, etc.  The only thing that is somewhat unpredictable is when each sequence of events plays out within the fight. 

     

    Point is, PvP can be fun to some people, sometimes challenging, sometimes not.  PvE can be fun to some people, sometime challenging, sometimes not.  They are different games.  They fulfill different types of entertainment.  Both can be equally entertaining but in different ways.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by Rayshe
     

    I agree more on the lines of the Virtual World side of the arguement. however i also see that having a living Virtual world is ruined almost everytime by the same type of people. a virtural world taken about half seriously to seriously can be fun, however you will have a large group of people who dont want to do this. The CoD age of gaming is full of gamers that say "i have a sword who can i put it in" FOM fell to this idea, Now that we have a HUGE casual following of gamers in the MMORPG genre (something UO and other Virtual Worlds didn't have to contend with) we get stuck with people who thinks Virtual World means, Open world Grand Theft Auto. We can all agree that this idea is not fun, try having a political discussion when somone randomly runs up behind both of you Shoots you tea bags and then spams your mailbox with "I PWN JUUU"

     

    In short, Virtual worlds. Great Idea, Great in Practice, Ruined by New Age MMO Community.

    The word "Ruined" assigns blame. I would say a game that does not design with realistic player behavior in mind is a failure in design.

    We are what we are. There are always people enjoy ruining some other people's day. That is just human nature. A game with massive number of players, statistically, will have this kind of players.

    A virtual world allowing all sort of interactions is not taken this human nature proper into account. A entertainment product needs to be fun for at least a majority of its player. If a small group can ruin others' fun in a significnat manner, no matter how it is done, the product fails.

  • znaiikaznaiika denver, PAPosts: 203Member

    I like PVP, what I don't like about PVP community is that they always pray on easy targets, to feel spacial I guess, that make's me sad, seams they never have courage to contest real opponents, and if they loose, then prapare for accusations.

    Not all of PVP players are like that many are willing to help and are nice.

    I also like to PVP when I want to, don't like to be forced.

  • SeiTieSSeiTieS Quezon CityPosts: 21Member
    i love PvP! i think almost 70% of mmorpg gamers love it too ^_^
  • FromHellFromHell NY, NYPosts: 1,311Member

    - Because they know they suck at PvP.

    - Because they need a reaon to call all who are good at PvP "griefers".

    - They feel everything is "unfair" and "unbalanced"

    - They are scared by pixels which are not controlled by computer AI and therefore harder to beat

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  • bamdorfbamdorf Chatham, NJPosts: 150Member

    There will always be people who like A, and some who like B, and some who don't care.   And there will always be a small subset of the first two groups that work themselves into a frenzy trying to prove that how they think is right because it can be proven from first principles, is a rule of the universe, etc., even though we are dealing with human opinions, not mathematics or "hard" sciences.

    It is not enough for these people to just enjoy the style they prefer, they must squash emphatically anyone who thinks differently.   The argument(s) that the OP presents are very much like the arguments of any run-of-the-mill religious fanatic.   If I feel unhappy in a given pvp game, or happy for that matter, you simply cannot "argue" me out of my feelings, particularly by insulting me, claiming that I just don't understand why my feelings or preferences are wrong.   Which is the biggest insult, perhaps.

    But you can annoy me.

    It is ironic that some of the responses have had some interesting insights.  Go figure.

     

     

     

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  • darkedone02darkedone02 Louisville, KYPosts: 552Member

    PvP don't scare me, it's just pisses me off mostly when I am in a hardcore mood that want's to go to win most of the times, but i've get the opposite of what i wanted and when i bitch at the team, they bitch at me thinking that I am the noob that preventing the team to win, everyone's a god damn troll and suffer from extreme case of mental retardation, ignorance, and stupidity that just wish i have a gun that just shoot down these fucking assholes though my computer towards there. This is why I stop play and started hating all moba games, PvP in each and every game, survival games that has a hardcore PvP looting like DayZ, WarZ, and other piece of shit games that support such things that attracts assholes and douchebags.

    Ever since more and more games are coming out that is wanting to be more like dark souls and moba games, the more i'm staying away most of these games because of how pissed off i could be that really makes me break my controllers and shit. That's why I've play single-player games and try to cool off or find some fun in the game or something engaging that makes me want to progress further, something that i rather enjoy then getting pissed off.

    The more that I see ignorance, stupidity, and fucking assholes, the more that I think the whole fucking world is just black and gone to hell...

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  • EcocesEcoces Chicago, ILPosts: 879Member Uncommon
    yeah im scared of button pushers LOL PVPers make me laugh, come by my gym put on some boxing gloves and we will do some REAL PVP.
  • asmkm22asmkm22 Anchorage, AKPosts: 1,788Member
    I don't have a problem with PvP.  I just have a problem with the types of people it tends to attract.  I miss the RPG elements to MMO's and you just don't get that with your average PvP player name of "Saturdays Pancakes" or  "Pvpdonu" or whatever.  I expect that in CoD, but it's just annoying in an MMO.

    You make me like charity

  • JemcrystalJemcrystal Champaign, ILPosts: 1,552Member Uncommon
    The OP is correct.  PvP is down right uncomfortable.  I hate it or am scared of it or whatever you want to say.  You can say it makes me piss my pants if you want to, I don't care.  If I want someone to focus their violent aggressions at me I can find PLENTY  of people to do so in real life.  I don't want to go get it in a gaming world as well.  Games are suppose to make me feel like life is worth living.  Not like someone is just waiting to slice me all to hell.  I live in a city.  I get that from real life.

  • NeherunNeherun St. MichelPosts: 278Member

    A lot of people  just question the legitemacy of the PvP encounter, and are attached to their virtual characters. There's this one insult to describe them.

     

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  • ScotScot UKPosts: 5,762Member Uncommon
    I hear noobs on this thread.
  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    Probably some snide will report my post and I will get another ban what the hell.

    If you skim through this post you will see lots of pop psychology from the anti pvp brigade, words such as "sociopath" .

    So I will do a little back

    My take - many of those with extreme pro pve / Anti pvp stances have difficulty distinguishing between fantasy and reality. They associate dieing in A GAME with loosing something in real life, they are unhealthily attached to their characters. They associate being a "killer" type IN GAME with sadistic and sociopathic tendencies in real life.
  • maccarthur2004maccarthur2004 SPosts: 510Member
    Originally posted by Nikopol

    OP; to me, it's the other way around. I don't care for organized PVP systems like battlegrounds or even RvR, but I like open world PVP. Without any systems, or maybe even incentivization. And I'm primarily a PVE player.

    To me, PVP should not be something that's a goal but something that just happens. Something that pisses you off, keeps you from accomplishing some other thing. A hindrance you should overcome. You're going for a resource, some enemy player is going for the same resource, you duke it out. You want to go into a dungeon, and some enemy players are there and want the place for themselves, you duke it out.

    That's the only way PVP can be - to use a popular phrase around here - "meaningful" to me, because it's all part of the te?ture then. Part of the overall progress. Other players become obstacles to your goal, which makes said accomplishment feel more fulfilling.

    So, how about PVP for PVP's sake? Doesn't work for me. All the PVP systems make the PVP feel somewhat phony. I never get that sense of purpose. I like having goals that reach far and wide and have to do with the open game world mechanics - be it fishing a special item, mining some hot ore, running a good transport route or whatever. Organized PVP, especially as it is in modern games, feels isolated to me. Any system you bring in, you limit what PVP can mean.

    EVE is probably the one game where even "PVP for PVP's sake" ends up more than PVP.  Or rather, everything ends up one form of PVP or another. :)

    I think the same. I dislike "minigame PVP" too.

    "What we are aiming in ArcheAge is to let the players feel the true fun of MMORPG by forming a community like real life by interacting with other players, whether it be conflict or cooperation." (Jake Song)

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  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Sioux City, IAPosts: 3,828Member

    Necro-ing your own 3 month old thread?
    <shakes head>

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR

This discussion has been closed.