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So Tengu and Drakes are getting nerfed...

24

Comments

  • MalcanisMalcanis LondonPosts: 3,191Member
    Originally posted by Elsabolts
    Originally posted by Gdemami

     


    Originally posted by Hekket
    Pretty much yeah.

     

    I don't give a damn if they're OP or not, I invested a crap ton of SP, ISK and Real life money into getting them and fitting them and if you think for a second that I'm just gonna be all like "Okay CCP! Sounds good! I can't wait for you to nerf the ever living f*** out my stuff!" then you are out of your freaking mind. No. You are legally insane.

    You know what. I wouldn't be all that mad if they would at the very least give me a refund on my skill points. But I think we all know that ain't happenin'

    Not that I ever showed up with my bat and ball in the first place anyway. I always was the homely type.

     


     

    Be lucky you did not invest in blasters pre-2008. 4 years and they are still shit...


    It is the same as with any other game, things are getting boosted and nerfed and your invested time and resource may turn vain in a single patch.

    F2p will one day come " GrassHopper " along with Item shops. It has been written.

    image

     

    Keep on dreaming

    Give me liberty or give me lasers

  • MalcanisMalcanis LondonPosts: 3,191Member
    Originally posted by free2play

    Missile skills are like gunery. You can't say they are wasted because HML are getting a swat with the nerf bat. It's like saying my gunnery are junk because they nerfed medium rails.

    That said, HML is getting a punch in the nose. Drake won't survive as a null fleet doctrine any more. It was a High Sec favorite for the exclusive passive tank and capless dps. That won't change. Tengu can always switch out to rails subsytem and will manage to be usefull. it was the Null bear favorite for the sig rad and it was a bitch to scan down.

    The only thing I am a bit annoyed about is the tracking enhancers won't influence missiles and I don't think it's a delay. I've seen them do this many times before. I don't expect they ever will and that was a god send to cruise and torp Raven users from old days.

     

    Drakes aren't really a viable nullsec fleet doctrine any more anyway. Virtually everyone has stopped using DrakeArmy since the tier 3 battlecruisers were introduced, because Drakes that get inside Scorch L range are doomed. Nagas can easily operate outside that range and also do more damage.

    Drake Army rose to prominence because back in 2010, server lag was a far bigger problem than it is now, and that meant that the disadvantages of missiles were minimised. When there's no lag, it is much easier to just warp off when you see 100 drakes yellow-box you... Now that we have TiDi and Team Gridlock's stirling work on lag reduction, the big advantages of Drakefleets are gone.

    It's worth noting that the Hurricane is also getting a nerf, a more direct one in this case. The Myrm and the Harb are getting buffed.

    In short: that's EVE. CCP rebalance ships or mods that get too popular (or are unused) in order to maintain diversity. As soon as something starts to be "mandatory" then its days as King of The Hill are numbered. It's a never-ending process, because conditions change, the metagame develops, new doctrines arise. And in the end, that's a good thing. A "perfectly" balanced, eternally static EVE would be dull as hell.

    If anyone's :sadface: about their HML tengu, then they should start training Assault Missiles now. They should be halfway to level 5 by the time the server comes up.

     

    Give me liberty or give me lasers

  • RednecksithRednecksith Madison heights, MIPosts: 1,238Member
    Originally posted by Z3R01

    WIS was too much for CCP.

    Maybe if they had Blizzard resources WIS could be a full fledged addition tot he game.

    Fully interaction stations, missions, mini-games, social hubs, personal shops and more.

    However they can't do that and I would rather they scrap the idea than limp along taking 10 years to release whats basically meaningless Avatars walking down a hallway.

    Nah they could've done it, but the playerbase threw a hissy fit with lots of screaming, crying, and pounding of fists because, "We want our spaceship game! Screw anything innovative or interesting which could potentially attract more players! Screw your vision of making this more than a point-and-click adventure game in space CCP! WAAAAHHHHH!!!".

    Sadly instead of telling these babies to go play in traffic (and rightfully so), CCP caved. And the game stagnates. Thanks, EVE vets!

  • KrematoryKrematory TVNPosts: 542Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Hekket

    You know what. I wouldn't be all that mad if they would at the very least give me a refund on my skill points. But I think we all know that ain't happenin'

    That's right, it won't happen because you can STILL use heavy missiles. It's just that they're balanced now. And before you ask, yes, I have those skills maxed aswell. HTFU

    "EVE is likely the best MMORPG that you've never really understood or played" - Kyleran

  • pyrofreakpyrofreak In the middle of, PAPosts: 1,481Member Uncommon
    The real benefit here is that my guided missile precision skill now works with my torp Golem and HAM Tengu.

    Now with 57.3% more flames!

  • ExavusExavus Kenai, AKPosts: 200Member
    So Should I be happy I picked Amarr ships?

    Current MMO: WoW/GW2

  • ZeroxinZeroxin LondonPosts: 2,521Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by free2play
    Originally posted by NightBandit

    I'm not sure what to think any more they just seem to be trying to fix things but not if you know what i mean. Still have to wait and see how it pans out.

    Bandit

    EVE is losing ground. You can feel it. You know the game you play, you sense something different. This isn't the same old, same old EVE is dieing again. It's on the decline. CCP want to stop the bleeding, rightly so but they need more than just bells, whistles and smoke and mirrors.

    Set aside the missile foolishness, look at all the other stuff in retribution and its a big patch. It's not an expansion though. It's a patch. They need an expansion. Something bigger than Sov for null to build, something for HS to build. There is no motivation in the game right now. All you do is grind ISK and burn it off, repeat and rinse. update skill queue.

    Yea, this game needs a new Apocrypha. More Wormholes, more exploration, more reasons to go pew pew on NPCs AND other players.

    I'd suggest they start making stable-forever wormholes that appear in different areas of the world which null sec alliances can fight over or even small squads can hold control over. It would definitely bring something new for people to do.

    This is not a game.

  • tom_goretom_gore TamperePosts: 1,796Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Zeroxin

    Yea, this game needs a new Apocrypha. More Wormholes, more exploration, more reasons to go pew pew on NPCs AND other players.

    I'd suggest they start making stable-forever wormholes that appear in different areas of the world which null sec alliances can fight over or even small squads can hold control over. It would definitely bring something new for people to do.

    They tried to bring more content in Incarna, but they could not pull it through and it backfired royally. Now they are afraid of investing into anything major for their game and just tweaking existing systems (plus their resources have probably been very much tied with DUST).

    Which might of course be a wise decision, since there is a lot of tweaking to do. Unfortunately no amount of tweaking will increase EVE's playerbase considerably. It needs something new and by new I mean something like Incarna new, something that is completely different from the current content, not just the same ratting wrapped in a different paper.

    In any case, Retribution brings many great tweaks and small changes to existing systems, but it doesn't really bring anything new. I agree that calling it an expansion is a longshot.

     

  • free2playfree2play Toronto, ONPosts: 1,868Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Exavus
    So Should I be happy I picked Amarr ships?

    If you can find the win sauce in Amarr, you can find the win sauce in EVE. Amarr is all about fleets and fleet mates. They are the gank and tank race of EVE.

  • YizleYizle Atlanta, GAPosts: 517Member
    Well I am glad that I let my sub finally lapsed since I am Caldari and liked my missile boats for mission running. Drake was always my favorite boat.
  • MalcanisMalcanis LondonPosts: 3,191Member
    Originally posted by Yizle
    Well I am glad that I let my sub finally lapsed since I am Caldari and liked my missile boats for mission running. Drake was always my favorite boat.

     

    How many damb times?! Short range missiles are getting a massive buff. Now they're actually viable, so you don't have to use low DPS long range weapons, you can have some fun actually flying your ship.

    980 DPS HAM Tengu. Do it!

    1300 DPS Torp CNR. RAWR! (This will cost you some serious ISK to do right though.... but still. 1300 DPS.)

    Jesus man, have you seen what they're going to do with the Caracal!? 4 low slots, ffs. And Light missiles are getting a 10% damage buff, plus an explosion velocity buff. If you fly a frigate anywhere near a new Caracal fitted with Rapid Light Missile Launchers (or whatever they're called nowadays), you're gonna have a bad time.

    Even a Rifter :p

    Incidentally, there will be 4 new destroyers and the Caldari one will be a missile boat.

     

    The tl;dr is: Retribution is an overall massive win for missile lovers. Just put the HMLs down, I know they were the only missiles worth using for a long, long time but now you can walk in sunlight.

    Give me liberty or give me lasers

  • AcidonAcidon Salem, ORPosts: 797Member
    Originally posted by CyclopsSlayer

    Heavy Missiles are losing ~25% of both Range and Damage. iirc it is down from 72km to 58km base.

    Missile launchers will now be affected by Targeting Disruptors for a further range reduction.

    The ship bonuses are getting 'adjusted', but I don't have the specifics to hand.

     

    All-in-all, the premeire missile boats are getting hit like a steel toed boot to the teeth, just before being shoved off a building into a dumpster of broken glass.

    It was fairly obvious they were too strong, but I feel the nerfing may be a bit too hard. With what I see coming I wouldn't even dream of a L4 running Drake without using HAMs or something, HML's no longer make the cut. YMMV

    So, you could say, EvE's devs are wearing doc martins.

    Playing: H1Z1, The Crew, Defiance, APB:Reloaded
    Mourning: World of Darkness, Vanguard, City of Heroes


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  • HekketHekket Iforgot, IAPosts: 905Member
    Originally posted by Acidon
    Originally posted by CyclopsSlayer

    Heavy Missiles are losing ~25% of both Range and Damage. iirc it is down from 72km to 58km base.

    Missile launchers will now be affected by Targeting Disruptors for a further range reduction.

    The ship bonuses are getting 'adjusted', but I don't have the specifics to hand.

     

    All-in-all, the premeire missile boats are getting hit like a steel toed boot to the teeth, just before being shoved off a building into a dumpster of broken glass.

    It was fairly obvious they were too strong, but I feel the nerfing may be a bit too hard. With what I see coming I wouldn't even dream of a L4 running Drake without using HAMs or something, HML's no longer make the cut. YMMV

    So, you could say, EvE's devs are wearing doc martins.

    I actually found a pair of doc martins in my closet recently caked with dust on them from almost 12 years ago....

  • RocketeerRocketeer NachrodtPosts: 1,304Member

    HMLs just got balanced, not the end of the world. Also other missiles where massively buffed.

    Also T2 missiles are now viable since they have no drawbacks anymore, and t2 missiles got a damage buff aswell. Overall its a massive buff to missile ships, and caldari specifically. Caldari has been rising lately and getting a ton of very awesome ships in the last years or so, they are a far cry away from the "lol don't train caladri if you want to pvp" they once where.

    The new moa also looks delicious, not to mention they are planning something for the ferox aswell. That being said, the tengu wasn't THAT good at running missions anyway ever since they allowed MWDs again. Both my Nightmare and my Macharial outperformed my tengu so much it wasn't even funny, and now with salavge drones ... why would you even want to fly a droneless ship for missions?

     

    Actually NOW with hams buffed as much, flying a tengu actually makes MORE sense since you can close range very fast anyway, still have a decent range and do actually noteworthy dps. That being said i find picking the right ship for missions harder than ever, which imho is a sign that overall balance is pretty good.

     

    P.S.: Good riddance on WiS. That was a thinly veiled abomination masquerading as introducing a new gameplay, being in truth based almost solely around cash shop dependancy. Also it detracted a ludicrous amount of resources away from the actual game, you know spaceships and stuff. Go play second life for now, im sure they will have shirts with spaceships on them, likely for less than actual RL shirts with spaceships on them even unlike WiS.

  • jagd1jagd1 istanbulPosts: 281Member
    Originally posted by Malcanis

     

    How many damb times?! Short range missiles are getting a massive buff. Now they're actually viable, so you don't have to use low DPS long range weapons, you can have some fun actually flying your ship.

    980 DPS HAM Tengu. Do it!

    Malcanis do you work for CCP ? Direct or indirect ? Because your posts dont make sense .

    I forgot how many times missiles nerfed since i joined game tech2 /tech1/speed buff = indirect missile nerf  /torp nerf  range nerf / speed balance and missile nerf again / again another missile nerf not talking about ''tweaks '' fyi

    What you forgot is time people spend for these skills ,since skill gain is real time nerf = loss of real time .Drake and tengu were last missile ships in pvp /fleet  and some people tgrained because of alliance fits .

     

    And about that fake big numbers , how many of that damage applied to a Ab  frigate or cruiser ? Numbers mean nothing if you cant apply  ,but you dont talk about this.

     

     

     

     

  • MalcanisMalcanis LondonPosts: 3,191Member

    I was playing before and after the nanonerf went down. It wasn't an "indirect nerf"; missile ships went from being a joke in PvP, to, you know, useful.

    I don't work for CCP. I'm just sick of seeing people baww like little babies about a single aspect of the change and ignoring the rest that actually benefits them because they refuse to even consider changing the way they do things.

    Christ, in the end the overall difference even to HML Tengus is tiny, because the improvements in the Fury missiles make up for it.

     

    Dry your eyes, start up your brains and bloody well adapt.

     

    Jesus.

    Give me liberty or give me lasers

  • hfztthfztt GlostrupPosts: 839Member Uncommon

    In the mean time people not whining on mmorpg.com are enjoying themselfs ingame...

    Just like always.

    Sorry but the world has not ended and EVE aint going anywhere.

    'nuf said.

  • hfztthfztt GlostrupPosts: 839Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Exavus
    So Should I be happy I picked Amarr ships?

    Hell yeah!

    Armor tank + lazorz = The Win!

  • YalexyYalexy BerlinPosts: 1,052Member Uncommon

    The mighty Nerfbat has allways been around, and I've simply adapted over the years. Nowadays no Nerfbat can scare me anymore, as I've trained all subcapital Ship, Drone, Gun and Missile-skills to LvL 5. So aslong as they don't introduce anything really new on the skill-side, they can nerf what they want, as I'll be able to adapt within a few minutes, aka switching ships and setups.

    Whining about nerfs just shows how inflexible you are. So HTFU!

    Insane passive shield-tanks combined with the range and DPS of HMLs was due to be nerfed for the last two years allready, just like stacking 8 Heatsinks on an Apocalypse was back in 2004.

  • MalcanisMalcanis LondonPosts: 3,191Member
    Originally posted by Yalexy

    The mighty Nerfbat has allways been around, and I've simply adapted over the years. Nowadays no Nerfbat can scare me anymore, as I've trained all subcapital Ship, Drone, Gun and Missile-skills to LvL 5. So aslong as they don't introduce anything really new on the skill-side, they can nerf what they want, as I'll be able to adapt within a few minutes, aka switching ships and setups.

    Whining about nerfs just shows how inflexible you are. So HTFU!

    Insane passive shield-tanks combined with the range and DPS of HMLs was due to be nerfed for the last two years allready, just like stacking 8 Heatsinks on an Apocalypse was back in 2004.

     

    I think you mean buffer tanks, not passive. Passive tanked Drakes do pathetic DPS.

    Give me liberty or give me lasers

  • RocketeerRocketeer NachrodtPosts: 1,304Member
    Originally posted by jagd1

    And about that fake big numbers , how many of that damage applied to a Ab  frigate or cruiser ? Numbers mean nothing if you cant apply  ,but you dont talk about this.

     

    Yeah and how much of any others BCs dps apply to the same AB frigate/Cruiser? Unless you web it or are faster ... none.

    Also his number wasn't fake, its actually doable in a pvp fit since you have the lows free for damage mods anyway. Unless you fly nano tengu that is ...

    /end thread for me though is that between Tengu and Drake there are 4 weapon systems, the very fact that a change to one of them makes people cry like its the end of the world, while the buffs to the other 3 get completely ignored shows us what this is about: Bringing a OP system a bit more inline with the rest of new eden.

    HMs get nerfed because everyone was abusing the heck out of them. I should know because i was one of those abusing them.

  • BanquettoBanquetto CityPosts: 1,037Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Malcanis
    I don't work for CCP. I'm just sick of seeing people baww like little babies about a single aspect of the change and ignoring the rest that actually benefits them because they refuse to even consider changing the way they do things.

    Yeah. And I have no tolerance - and never will have any tolerance - for people who actively argue against a game being well-balanced because they want it to be unbalanced in their favour. Like the guy upthread who flat-out said that he "don't give a damn" if something is unbalanced and overpowered, if he spent his precious skill points on it, it better stay unbalanced and overpowered, or CCP owe him a refund.

  • TealaTeala SomewherePosts: 7,430Member Uncommon
    I use to be a huge fan of CCP, until I figured them out.   Now...I think they are just slinging poo at a wall and hope that something sticks and actually works.    Most of their game is just piece mealed and hobbled together.   They have never added an expansion that didn't need huge fixes and adjustments(or complete reworks), and they have never finished any expansion that they released.    Their games history speaks for itself.    They'll release an expansion and immediately announce that they are working on a new one.   They'll let the existing new expansion fester in game or do little tweaks here and there, and then just before everyone is about to pick up and leave - they have a new expansion that is coming out and everyone forgets about the last one - that is still waiting to be completing and fixed.     That is why so much of the game is either broken, needs tweaked, or is compeletely forgotten.  

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  • HazelleHazelle Brampton, ONPosts: 760Member
    Originally posted by jagd1
    Originally posted by Malcanis

     

    How many damb times?! Short range missiles are getting a massive buff. Now they're actually viable, so you don't have to use low DPS long range weapons, you can have some fun actually flying your ship.

    980 DPS HAM Tengu. Do it!

    Malcanis do you work for CCP ? Direct or indirect ? Because your posts dont make sense .

    I forgot how many times missiles nerfed since i joined game tech2 /tech1/speed buff = indirect missile nerf  /torp nerf  range nerf / speed balance and missile nerf again / again another missile nerf not talking about ''tweaks '' fyi

    What you forgot is time people spend for these skills ,since skill gain is real time nerf = loss of real time .Drake and tengu were last missile ships in pvp /fleet  and some people tgrained because of alliance fits .

     

    And about that fake big numbers , how many of that damage applied to a Ab  frigate or cruiser ? Numbers mean nothing if you cant apply  ,but you dont talk about this. 

    Oh come on dude a tengu pilot has more than got his/her return on their skill investments.

    The ship was overpowered to rediculous proportions and required no talent to fly.

    I was a tengu pilot and as a tengu pilot I read the blog and thought to myself "it was fun while it lasted" which is something anyone that flew a tengu should think.  Hell, flying a Tengu was like discovering an exploit!

    It's a minor change that brings that ship a bit back down to earth which at the most will set a disgruntled pilot back a whopping 3 months.  Which means that If you've been playing for longer than 3 months you've most likely picked up enough skills to fit a different ship if you honestly believe these changes will make the tengu unplayable.

  • JetrpgJetrpg Whitehouse, OHPosts: 2,376Member
    Originally posted by Teala
    Biggest news coming from EVE is the death of WIS.   Team Avatar is no more and WIS is not even going to be a part of the game any longer.   So the walking in closets is all WIS will ever be.   Here I thought CCP was a game company that was truly making a difference in the MMO industry...I was sadly mistaken.   

    Yeah i called this years ago when they announced dust i was liek wtf this is trash. How about you make it part of the actual game .. or not at all.

    "Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine

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