Impossible is a strong word .. but highly unlike .. and you have not demonstrate how it is wrong. You can grief someone in pvp to the point that he cannot really play.
That is never possible in a pve centric game, particulalry a LFD style dungeon runs.
I am pretty sure I have alluded to numerous ways in which it is wrong... BUT at the same time it is clear that PVE mmos are enforcing more and more mechanics which make it less and less likely for you to be able to disrupt another gamers experience.
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
I am pretty sure I have alluded to numerous ways in which it is wrong... BUT at the same time it is clear that PVE mmos are enforcing more and more mechanics which make it less and less likely for you to be able to disrupt another gamers experience.
Now we are in agreement. In fact, for many who hit a button and wait for dungeon to pop, there is really very little one can do to disupt other's enjoyment.
- You can't block access to vendor/NPC/AH (in fact, i believe it is a banable offense in WOW to "hide" a vendor NPC with your toon.
- You can quit your dungeon group for whatever reason. Since most people know they can't harass people for more than a few second, they won't do it in dungeon groups.
- There is new loot system in WOW (hopefully more will adopt) that ninjaing is impossibe .. essentially you roll your own loot like in Diablo 3.
This is a perfect example of how pve and pvp are separated. If i want to kill others, i play PS3 (for world pvp), or hit a button to queue a BG/arena (if i like esport). If i want to pve in peace, i can.
I also enjoy instanced pvp to an extent, but not in the way WoW's operated. I do not like being rewarded for doing nothing. (Receiving points, badges or whatever for participating or even afking through it).
What I do like is events of instanced pvp. For example, 1v1, 2v2, etc competitions that the winner may receive a title, something to let everyone know of their accomplishment.
I think instanced pvp such as battlegrounds should just be for entertainment purposes or practice, never actually worth much.
I think instanced pvp such as battlegrounds should just be for entertainment purposes or practice, never actually worth much.
All games are for entertainment purpose, unless you are a chinese gold farmer.
I don't find auction housing entertaining...
Some aspects of the game are not entertaining to all. If you look I said after that, never actually worth much. Read what else I wrote, I am against being rewarded with gear for doing nothing other than participating.
Second, I cannot tell if you are ignorant or backing my statement up.
All games are for entertainment purposes. Therefore, when I state the instanced PvP should be for entertainment purposes only, never actually worth much. So, if it is apart of the game then it is for entertainment purposes. If it is not worth much more, then it I am saying you should not be rewarded for it.
Sorry I cannot please you by saying instanced pvp is the only way to go. I do believe it should be in the game, but that is it.
They are, which is why having OWPvP mmos around for those that enjoy them is a good thing.
Yes. And so are PvE MMOs with no owpvp. Arena PVP. OWPVP only games (like PS2). MOBA, and other types of instanced PVP games (WOT).
Just because the game has PvP does not mean it does not have PvE in all cases. Most MMO that revolve around PvP have PvE as well.... better than many of these PvE only games.
Yes. And so are PvE MMOs with no owpvp. Arena PVP. OWPVP only games (like PS2). MOBA, and other types of instanced PVP games (WOT).
Just because the game has PvP does not mean it does not have PvE in all cases. Most MMO that revolve around PvP have PvE as well.... better than many of these PvE only games.
Some do. Some don't. PS2 don't. MOBAs don't. WOT don't. So you have both categories. PVP with no PVE. And PVP with some PVE.
World PvP was the reason I loved MMO not because of the PvP factor itself but for the following Points:-
* It encourges grouping up
*It leads to people forming groups
*It can cause you to creat amazing friendships and not just making enemies
*The Surprise factor of being jumped by anyone as you quest is a feeling that can not be bought with money
*It can leave amazing memories for you to remember with your friend as you survive through nearly impossible pvp encounters while originally both of you were "just Questing"
*It can always disrupt your questing plans, which is not always a bad thing as the main reason now days people get bored of MMOs is because it is just dull experiance or a one time experiance and then everything is expected eventually leading them to move on to the next MMO "seeking the thing that kept them enterained in the past"
I do not Normally Post but i just thought to share my view on this one
World PvP was the reason I loved MMO not because of the PvP factor itself but for the following Points:-
* It encourges grouping up
*It leads to people forming groups
*It can cause you to creat amazing friendships and not just making enemies
*The Surprise factor of being jumped by anyone as you quest is a feeling that can not be bought with money
*It can leave amazing memories for you to remember with your friend as you survive through nearly impossible pvp encounters while originally both of you were "just Questing"
*It can always disrupt your questing plans, which is not always a bad thing as the main reason now days people get bored of MMOs is because it is just dull experiance or a one time experiance and then everything is expected eventually leading them to move on to the next MMO "seeking the thing that kept them enterained in the past"
I do not Normally Post but i just thought to share my view on this one
This is a good point, i still speak with people i met years ago in game and grew a friendship outside of the game. Years later we still team up in game once in awhile, but with families now, time is limited. But that will never take away the memories.
Yes. And so are PvE MMOs with no owpvp. Arena PVP. OWPVP only games (like PS2). MOBA, and other types of instanced PVP games (WOT).
Just because the game has PvP does not mean it does not have PvE in all cases. Most MMO that revolve around PvP have PvE as well.... better than many of these PvE only games.
Some do. Some don't. PS2 don't. MOBAs don't. WOT don't. So you have both categories. PVP with no PVE. And PVP with some PVE.
Choices are good.
Still none of those are mmorpg's. You speak as if battle arenas and shooters are on equal terms as mmorpg's. hey are completely different and thus dont share the same features.
They are, which is why having OWPvP mmos around for those that enjoy them is a good thing.
Yes. And so are PvE MMOs with no owpvp. Arena PVP. OWPVP only games (like PS2). MOBA, and other types of instanced PVP games (WOT).
At no point have I suggested otherwise, in fact I came into this thread to present the argument that instanced PVP is far from trash and that all pvp has it's place (dependant upon the specific game).
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
Some do. Some don't. PS2 don't. MOBAs don't. WOT don't. So you have both categories. PVP with no PVE. And PVP with some PVE.
Choices are good.
Still none of those are mmorpg's. You speak as if battle arenas and shooters are on equal terms as mmorpg's. hey are completely different and thus dont share the same features.
Yeah, they are on equal terms. They are all games i can consider to entertainment myself with.
Not sharing the same features?
Between PS2 and MMOs ... one consistent big world, no zones likes WOW.
Between WOT and MMOs ... queued instanced pvp battle like BG/arena in so many MMOs.
Between MOBA and MMORPGs ... progression. Instanced battles.
At no point have I suggested otherwise, in fact I came into this thread to present the argument that instanced PVP is far from trash and that all pvp has it's place (dependant upon the specific game).
Closed PvP or "instanced PvP" has more than one bad effect:-
-If you think about the reason MMO existed is for People to Compete against each other, either by direct contact or through contact with the game world and gaining what we know of as "Achievements"
*Now we have the first way Instanced so we will not have to make effort to either find people to Protect us or team with us as we quest to make sure we are not ganked and neither will we feel needed by someone in the very same sense, so the friendship factor through questing in the world is killed for good, now moving on to the next:
*the Second way used to be one of the two means to creat amazing history and friendships as you battle your way through raids and instances and get the feeling of fight to survive before of thinking of Loot, when in fact i beileve Loot is important to have a reward for what you do, i do also beileve that the means to obtain it has become just a tread mill and not a path created for players to form relationships as they go through it, and the last screw has been dug in the PVE coffin when some mmos started the Looking for raid/dungeon finder feature which now ditched the social aspect of the game 100%
I do not see people keeping interest in game anymore after they gain the gear the have seeked/achievements
Closed PvP or "instanced PvP" has more than one bad effect:-
-If you think about the reason MMO existed is for People to Compete against each other, either by direct contact or through contact with the game world and gaining what we know of as "Achievements"
*Now we have the first way Instanced so we will not have to make effort to either find people to Protect us or team with us as we quest to make sure we are not ganked and neither will we feel needed by someone in the very same sense, so the friendship factor through questing in the world is killed for good, now moving on to the next:
*the Second way used to be one of the two means to creat amazing history and friendships as you battle your way through raids and instances and get the feeling of fight to survive before of thinking of Loot, when in fact i beileve Loot is important to have a reward for what you do, i do also beileve that the means to obtain it has become just a tread mill and not a path created for players to form relationships as they go through it, and the last screw has been dug in the PVE coffin when some mmos started the Looking for raid/dungeon finder feature which now ditched the social aspect of the game 100%
I do not see people keeping interest in game anymore after they gain the gear the have seeked/achievements
I disagree that "the reason MMO existed is for People to Compete against each other".
I don't think thats the reason at all, I think the reason was so that people could interact in some way in a game world, of which competition is just one reason of many possible reasons. IMO not even the biggest part.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
Closed PvP or "instanced PvP" has more than one bad effect:-
-If you think about the reason MMO existed is for People to Compete against each other, either by direct contact or through contact with the game world and gaining what we know of as "Achievements"
*Now we have the first way Instanced so we will not have to make effort to either find people to Protect us or team with us as we quest to make sure we are not ganked and neither will we feel needed by someone in the very same sense, so the friendship factor through questing in the world is killed for good, now moving on to the next:
*the Second way used to be one of the two means to creat amazing history and friendships as you battle your way through raids and instances and get the feeling of fight to survive before of thinking of Loot, when in fact i beileve Loot is important to have a reward for what you do, i do also beileve that the means to obtain it has become just a tread mill and not a path created for players to form relationships as they go through it, and the last screw has been dug in the PVE coffin when some mmos started the Looking for raid/dungeon finder feature which now ditched the social aspect of the game 100%
I do not see people keeping interest in game anymore after they gain the gear the have seeked/achievements
I disagree that "the reason MMO existed is for People to Compete against each other".
I don't think thats the reason at all, I think the reason was so that people could interact in some way in a game world, of which competition is just one reason of many possible reasons. IMO not even the biggest part.
Which Naturally will lead to people either demonstraiting their skills against each other through different means or Socially interacting?
Closed PvP or "instanced PvP" has more than one bad effect:-
-If you think about the reason MMO existed is for People to Compete against each other, either by direct contact or through contact with the game world and gaining what we know of as "Achievements"
*Now we have the first way Instanced so we will not have to make effort to either find people to Protect us or team with us as we quest to make sure we are not ganked and neither will we feel needed by someone in the very same sense, so the friendship factor through questing in the world is killed for good, now moving on to the next:
*the Second way used to be one of the two means to creat amazing history and friendships as you battle your way through raids and instances and get the feeling of fight to survive before of thinking of Loot, when in fact i beileve Loot is important to have a reward for what you do, i do also beileve that the means to obtain it has become just a tread mill and not a path created for players to form relationships as they go through it, and the last screw has been dug in the PVE coffin when some mmos started the Looking for raid/dungeon finder feature which now ditched the social aspect of the game 100%
I do not see people keeping interest in game anymore after they gain the gear the have seeked/achievements
I disagree that "the reason MMO existed is for People to Compete against each other".
I don't think thats the reason at all, I think the reason was so that people could interact in some way in a game world, of which competition is just one reason of many possible reasons. IMO not even the biggest part.
Which Naturally will lead to people either demonstraiting their skills against each other through different means or Socially interacting?
Social interaction doesn't mean competition, it is just one form. That is the difference between "the purpose of something" and a "one of many purposes"
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
I have been playing mmos forever..not really..but for quite a long time. IMO OPvP ususally ends up being 80% ganking, griefing,corpse camping more often than legitimate skill based fighting. I play games for a couple reasons...to take a break from RL happenings and to have fun. It is no fun to me to login and have to run back for my corpse every 15mins, or not be able to complete an objective due to the opposite faction camping said objective. I get that true pvp'rs want an open world to pvp in, so the best solution is to have dedicated OPvP servers and dedicated PvE servers. Keep all you uber pvp'rs togather and let the rest of us enjoy our game w/o having to be griefed by the pvp'rs. It has been said numerous times in this thread...OPvP breeds griefing, not by all, but by a vast majority.
Originally posted by Phynn I have been playing mmos forever..not really..but for quite a long time. IMO OPvP ususally ends up being 80% ganking, griefing,corpse camping more often than legitimate skill based fighting. I play games for a couple reasons...to take a break from RL happenings and to have fun. It is no fun to me to login and have to run back for my corpse every 15mins, or not be able to complete an objective due to the opposite faction camping said objective. I get that true pvp'rs want an open world to pvp in, so the best solution is to have dedicated OPvP servers and dedicated PvE servers. Keep all you uber pvp'rs togather and let the rest of us enjoy our game w/o having to be griefed by the pvp'rs. It has been said numerous times in this thread...OPvP breeds griefing, not by all, but by a vast majority.
Every 15 minutes? Are you serious or making that up? Because i have played mmo's forever and never was i killed that many times lol. Because if you die every 15 minutes i think its the player not the game.
Because i get ganked more in an instanced battlezone than anything. And often times the team are stacked.
Originally posted by Phynn I have been playing mmos forever..not really..but for quite a long time. IMO OPvP ususally ends up being 80% ganking, griefing,corpse camping more often than legitimate skill based fighting. I play games for a couple reasons...to take a break from RL happenings and to have fun. It is no fun to me to login and have to run back for my corpse every 15mins, or not be able to complete an objective due to the opposite faction camping said objective. I get that true pvp'rs want an open world to pvp in, so the best solution is to have dedicated OPvP servers and dedicated PvE servers. Keep all you uber pvp'rs togather and let the rest of us enjoy our game w/o having to be griefed by the pvp'rs. It has been said numerous times in this thread...OPvP breeds griefing, not by all, but by a vast majority.
Griefing is a game design flow that can be fixed in my opinion through many ways
World PvP was the reason I loved MMO not because of the PvP factor itself but for the following Points:-
* It encourges grouping up
*It leads to people forming groups
*It can cause you to creat amazing friendships and not just making enemies
*The Surprise factor of being jumped by anyone as you quest is a feeling that can not be bought with money
*It can leave amazing memories for you to remember with your friend as you survive through nearly impossible pvp encounters while originally both of you were "just Questing"
*It can always disrupt your questing plans, which is not always a bad thing as the main reason now days people get bored of MMOs is because it is just dull experiance or a one time experiance and then everything is expected eventually leading them to move on to the next MMO "seeking the thing that kept them enterained in the past"
I do not Normally Post but i just thought to share my view on this one
This is a good point, i still speak with people i met years ago in game and grew a friendship outside of the game. Years later we still team up in game once in awhile, but with families now, time is limited. But that will never take away the memories.
+1
How many MMO were released in past two years that alow you to do it!!!! NONE
All MMO nowdays are made for forum-pve-whiners, and they r getting more and more like single player games, with players forced to interact at endgame for raiding or battleground nonsence.
Comments
I am pretty sure I have alluded to numerous ways in which it is wrong... BUT at the same time it is clear that PVE mmos are enforcing more and more mechanics which make it less and less likely for you to be able to disrupt another gamers experience.
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
Now we are in agreement. In fact, for many who hit a button and wait for dungeon to pop, there is really very little one can do to disupt other's enjoyment.
- You can't block access to vendor/NPC/AH (in fact, i believe it is a banable offense in WOW to "hide" a vendor NPC with your toon.
- You can quit your dungeon group for whatever reason. Since most people know they can't harass people for more than a few second, they won't do it in dungeon groups.
- There is new loot system in WOW (hopefully more will adopt) that ninjaing is impossibe .. essentially you roll your own loot like in Diablo 3.
This is a perfect example of how pve and pvp are separated. If i want to kill others, i play PS3 (for world pvp), or hit a button to queue a BG/arena (if i like esport). If i want to pve in peace, i can.
Choices are good.
I personally enjoy open world pvp.
I also enjoy instanced pvp to an extent, but not in the way WoW's operated. I do not like being rewarded for doing nothing. (Receiving points, badges or whatever for participating or even afking through it).
What I do like is events of instanced pvp. For example, 1v1, 2v2, etc competitions that the winner may receive a title, something to let everyone know of their accomplishment.
I think instanced pvp such as battlegrounds should just be for entertainment purposes or practice, never actually worth much.
All games are for entertainment purpose, unless you are a chinese gold farmer.
I don't find auction housing entertaining...
Some aspects of the game are not entertaining to all. If you look I said after that, never actually worth much. Read what else I wrote, I am against being rewarded with gear for doing nothing other than participating.
Second, I cannot tell if you are ignorant or backing my statement up.
All games are for entertainment purposes. Therefore, when I state the instanced PvP should be for entertainment purposes only, never actually worth much. So, if it is apart of the game then it is for entertainment purposes. If it is not worth much more, then it I am saying you should not be rewarded for it.
Sorry I cannot please you by saying instanced pvp is the only way to go. I do believe it should be in the game, but that is it.
They are, which is why having OWPvP mmos around for those that enjoy them is a good thing.
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
Yes. And so are PvE MMOs with no owpvp. Arena PVP. OWPVP only games (like PS2). MOBA, and other types of instanced PVP games (WOT).
Just because the game has PvP does not mean it does not have PvE in all cases. Most MMO that revolve around PvP have PvE as well.... better than many of these PvE only games.
Some do. Some don't. PS2 don't. MOBAs don't. WOT don't. So you have both categories. PVP with no PVE. And PVP with some PVE.
Choices are good.
World PvP was the reason I loved MMO not because of the PvP factor itself but for the following Points:-
* It encourges grouping up
*It leads to people forming groups
*It can cause you to creat amazing friendships and not just making enemies
*The Surprise factor of being jumped by anyone as you quest is a feeling that can not be bought with money
*It can leave amazing memories for you to remember with your friend as you survive through nearly impossible pvp encounters while originally both of you were "just Questing"
*It can always disrupt your questing plans, which is not always a bad thing as the main reason now days people get bored of MMOs is because it is just dull experiance or a one time experiance and then everything is expected eventually leading them to move on to the next MMO "seeking the thing that kept them enterained in the past"
I do not Normally Post but i just thought to share my view on this one
A True Master who Knows his own limit...
This is a good point, i still speak with people i met years ago in game and grew a friendship outside of the game. Years later we still team up in game once in awhile, but with families now, time is limited. But that will never take away the memories.
Still none of those are mmorpg's. You speak as if battle arenas and shooters are on equal terms as mmorpg's. hey are completely different and thus dont share the same features.
At no point have I suggested otherwise, in fact I came into this thread to present the argument that instanced PVP is far from trash and that all pvp has it's place (dependant upon the specific game).
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
Yeah, they are on equal terms. They are all games i can consider to entertainment myself with.
Not sharing the same features?
Between PS2 and MMOs ... one consistent big world, no zones likes WOW.
Between WOT and MMOs ... queued instanced pvp battle like BG/arena in so many MMOs.
Between MOBA and MMORPGs ... progression. Instanced battles.
great .. then we are in agreement.
Closed PvP or "instanced PvP" has more than one bad effect:-
-If you think about the reason MMO existed is for People to Compete against each other, either by direct contact or through contact with the game world and gaining what we know of as "Achievements"
*Now we have the first way Instanced so we will not have to make effort to either find people to Protect us or team with us as we quest to make sure we are not ganked and neither will we feel needed by someone in the very same sense, so the friendship factor through questing in the world is killed for good, now moving on to the next:
*the Second way used to be one of the two means to creat amazing history and friendships as you battle your way through raids and instances and get the feeling of fight to survive before of thinking of Loot, when in fact i beileve Loot is important to have a reward for what you do, i do also beileve that the means to obtain it has become just a tread mill and not a path created for players to form relationships as they go through it, and the last screw has been dug in the PVE coffin when some mmos started the Looking for raid/dungeon finder feature which now ditched the social aspect of the game 100%
I do not see people keeping interest in game anymore after they gain the gear the have seeked/achievements
A True Master who Knows his own limit...
I disagree that "the reason MMO existed is for People to Compete against each other".
I don't think thats the reason at all, I think the reason was so that people could interact in some way in a game world, of which competition is just one reason of many possible reasons. IMO not even the biggest part.
Which Naturally will lead to people either demonstraiting their skills against each other through different means or Socially interacting?
A True Master who Knows his own limit...
Social interaction doesn't mean competition, it is just one form. That is the difference between "the purpose of something" and a "one of many purposes"
<a href="http://profile.xfire.com/fhlynn"><img src="http://miniprofile.xfire.com/bg/bg/type/0/fhlynn.png"; width="440" height="111" /></a>
Every 15 minutes? Are you serious or making that up? Because i have played mmo's forever and never was i killed that many times lol. Because if you die every 15 minutes i think its the player not the game.
Because i get ganked more in an instanced battlezone than anything. And often times the team are stacked.
opvp doesnt breed griefing, the people do.
Griefing is a game design flow that can be fixed in my opinion through many ways
A True Master who Knows his own limit...
+1
How many MMO were released in past two years that alow you to do it!!!! NONE
All MMO nowdays are made for forum-pve-whiners, and they r getting more and more like single player games, with players forced to interact at endgame for raiding or battleground nonsence.
<a href="http://www.danasoft.com"><img src="http://www.danasoft.com/sig/499105419258.jpg"; border="0"></a><div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:11px;"><p>Sign by Danasoft - <a href="http://www.danasoft.com">For Backgrounds and Layouts</a></p></div>