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Why I no longer support GM, and retracted my "backing" on Kickstarter.

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Comments

  • fatboy21007fatboy21007 triadelphia, WVMember Posts: 409
    i attempted to read mogus's posts, But during his video i remember saying who cares, then i started to read one of his posts in this thread, then seen Who cares again, So mr. mogus, *who cares* wat ya post, still wont change our thoughts, You best get into training, This is where the troll warriors live and in this land we pray on fresh blood such as your self, *sharpens knives*>>> ^_^ mwhahahaha
  • fornaxxxfornaxxx fghfhg, KYMember Posts: 2

     "The content Greed Monger is purchased goods from other artists and possible used in other games, maybe not all of it, but some of it most likely.  Greed Monger isn't in their own engine, it's a boughten one."

     

    The platform in wich your favorite music is made is not made by a musician, most of the sounds mixed are not made by a beat maker and are used in other songs. Still the best comes out of it. 

    I think it is possible to make great things with average material, you just need a good idea, like this game.

  • waffleyonewaffleyone Edina, MNMember Posts: 29

    As someone with mixed feelings towards the game, I'll keep my statements here to the point and mild, my goal is understanding/peace, not argument:

    I think it's a great thing that game developers don't need to create their own everything from scratch. That the building of engines/middleware/models can be bought/negotiated lowers the barrier to entry, which is something that the industry can really benefit from, in light of the tendency towards ever-increasing teams/budgets/etc. If I were to be a game developer, and if for the same price as 1 artist's salary for a year, I could immediately buy 3 person-years worth of art of comparable quality, I would do it in a heart beat, and wouldn't blame anyone for it.

    It's understandable that many have doubts about the qualifications of the lead developer, and the likelihood of the game's successful creation. Now, I have made unfounded statements in the past regarding the motives of said developer in anger over a now-resolved event (I here apologize for those statements). People are open to make their own calls about the intent of Mr Appleton, but there stands no evidence that the project is illegitimate.

    There are a couple of reasons for discontent that I and others have held. The first was in suppression of information / hostility over disclosure, which has all been discussed in interviews/forum posts. The remaining one is largely based in taking money for the project so early in the development process, when the likelihood of completion is not clearly overwhelming, and seems very low to some. There have been other similar projects that have been vaporware, and it is distressing, as a consumer, to see others giving large quantities of money toward a project without understanding the risk involved. Selling players virtual land that does not yet exist - which looks similar from a critical perspective to speculative pay2win - leaves a bad taste in the mouths of some. I don't think that what has been shown is justification to raise tens of thousands of dollars, and I tend to think kickstarter should be a tool to enable projects that are absolutely certain to deliver given funding, rather than projects that are more-or-less gambles. Nonetheless, people are responsible for their own spending decisions.

    I can definitely understand supporters being fed up with criticism - to judge a project on its faults before it even comes out the door is silly - and to hit people over the head with the same garbage over and over is tiresome at best. I hope that 

    My personal hope is that the project does succeed, as long as it doesn't milk its community for money, especially prior to release. I remember Jason said something in an interview regarding additional perks for players to buy before launch, though I haven't been able to relocate it. I'm all for ethical/aesthetic microtransactions, though that made me a little wary - even aesthetics are wonky to sell prior to release. 

    Cheers! I hope that promoted some understanding/peace rather than stir up trouble.

     

    As a silly note: As someone who has worked in a datacenter, I am highly amused by the statement that he has $50,000 worth of Poweredge 1850s. I figure that was what they cost 4 years ago when he bought them, and he probably has about 25 of them (they're great machines by the way, I love them!). As those are presently worth about $100 each, 50 grand worth of those would fill up 15 server racks, cost $200k/year in power and cooling, use as much power as 190 american homes and have a carbon footprint equal to 250 cars. Servers are crazy!

  • nakumanakuma New York City, NYMember Posts: 1,310 Uncommon

    I wanted to cue in and state I know Jason personally, and I am working with him as a 3D artist. I have never got a vibe of him being an asshole, or whatever you wish to state and yes he is in fact very pleasant and friendly. What he can be is very direct and outspoken and has a no nonsense attitude. Some people may interpret that differently or negatively than what it actually is. I believe not many people are used to that. 

    Now being new to the industry yes he has stuff to learn I am sure, but don't we all when we start learning a field, new career etc. Being new to the industry, the first step is to have a love and major passion for what you are doing and should not be a limiting factor on his credibility regardless of what you feel in his experience. Indie in itself is for people who are just starting and want to start something great or take that next step themselves or get tired of the same recycled slop in a different wrapper, but they do not have the ability like the Titans such as EA, blizzard, Activision to pull in millions on a whim and their name alone.

    I myself being an avid gamer for nearly 30 years (since atari 2600)I think of ways of how I can improve a game, or take it apart and make improvements e.g. mods, visuals etc. I started in 2003/4 making mods, e.g. project reality, BHD Mod for BF2, Unreal Tournament maps, dark basic games, modding SWAT4, the list goes on. Few years later around 2008 I managed to get employment in the game development industry as a 3D artist in contract/freelance role and I have learned alot along the way, yet I still have much to learn and expand on my skill set. I will continue to adapt and learn. Most of all....i love what I do which makes it easy to  get up and work my butt off for something I love and working along side like minded individuals to an end goal together.  

    Now, to answer concerns on Jason "purchasing" assets, pre-made products, it is simple. For an indie team, it comes down to money, most do not have a lot of it or do not start off with a lot, so simply put got to make a lot with a little. So as a team you got to think what can you implement within a limited budget and how can you implement your features quickly and effectively for testing, as well as presentation for potential investors, etc. But mainly it is a smart approach in that it shortens to the curve to a implemented test bed for the game you are developing. When you develop a game you want to be able to set up the basic core features and work up and out from there adding stuff as you go, along with a structured and planned GDD and art/programming pipeline it is very smart and very fast to a viable functional early alpha.

    It is easier to have specific assets purchased if available.e.g. characters, particle fx, creatures, weapons, animations for testing your features, code rather than looking at basic cubes, and primitives and simple blocky terrain. This allows you as the Development team to see quickly what works and what doesn't and adjust from there. I think the project has promise. Does it have obstacles to face? Yes, will it take a while to finish? yes. But the journey not so much the destination is the fun part in success.

     I see a lot of people wanting to new ideas, fresh innovation, original implementation of games they would love to do, or merely play. This is one of several promising projects rom indie companies, that will ;with luck, perserverance and old fashioned hard work be played and people will have fun.

    When you talk down to someone and their experience and credibility; Remember,the greatest in Game development all came from humble simple begininngs. Most of all they bust their ass to get there, and learned along the way. Same applies here.

    3.4ghz Phenom II X4 965, 8GB PC12800 DDR3 GSKILL, EVGA 560GTX 2GB OC, 640GB HD SATA II, BFG 1000WATT PSU. MSI NF980-G65 TRI-SLI MOBO.

  • tom_goretom_gore TampereMember Posts: 1,979 Uncommon

    I don't really even care if GM makes it or don't. If someone will at least make an effort at trying to create a decent crafting-based sandbox game they can have my 25 bucks (which is the amount I pledged to GM) and go ahead.

    The MMO genre needs anyone who are willing to go out and try new things. If I see any more "wow-killer", triple-A, Disney-sized IP, multi-billion themepark bullshit games coming out I'm going to puke.

     

  • nakumanakuma New York City, NYMember Posts: 1,310 Uncommon
    Originally posted by tom_gore
    I don't really even care if GM makes it or don't. If someone will at least make an effort at trying to create a decent crafting-based sandbox game they can have my 25 bucks (which is the amount I pledged to GM) and go ahead. The MMO genre needs anyone who are willing to go out and try new things. If I see any more "wow-killer", triple-A, Disney-sized IP, multi-billion themepark bullshit games coming out I'm going to puke.  

    well put. everyone screams the need and desire for something that is new,innovative, original, want sandbox  and now someone is making it and yet complain When that someone is new to the industry attempts to provide just that. Give him time see where it goes and if he can provide just that.

    3.4ghz Phenom II X4 965, 8GB PC12800 DDR3 GSKILL, EVGA 560GTX 2GB OC, 640GB HD SATA II, BFG 1000WATT PSU. MSI NF980-G65 TRI-SLI MOBO.

  • YakamomotoYakamomoto Osaka, ARMember Posts: 363

    Hey Jason, unfortunately I missed the Ks campaign, but nevertheless, interesting game and I might jump in at a later point.

    Also saw the video interview and I think you are the type of person who can pull this off. 

    Management talent is the key and you know that.

    A lot of losers who have no clue get angry if others work on their dreams and are not just frustrated big mouthed trolls who never accomplished anything on their own.

  • waffleyonewaffleyone Edina, MNMember Posts: 29
    Originally posted by Everybody Defending Greed Monger
    ..."trolls"...

    http://dontru.in/troll

     

    Seriously guys, know your words.

  • waynejr2waynejr2 West Toluca Lake, CAMember Posts: 6,586 Rare
    The Wright brothers didn't have any experience building airplanes and look what they started...
    http://www.youhaventlived.com/qblog/2010/QBlog190810A.html  

    https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1

    https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1

    Kyleran:  "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."

    John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."

    FreddyNoNose:  "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."

    LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"



  • DarwaDarwa CambridgeMember Posts: 2,176 Uncommon
    Originally posted by waynejr2
    The Wright brothers didn't have any experience building airplanes and look what they started...

    Terrible example. Learn2history ;)

  • waffleyonewaffleyone Edina, MNMember Posts: 29
    Originally posted by waynejr2
    The Wright brothers didn't have any experience building airplanes and look what they started...

    Keep in mind that also took them 4 years to make a minimally functional prototype, 6 years to make one of "practical utility", and 9 years to make one that they were comfortable exhibiting publicly. I'm not saying it can't be done, but the Wright brothers weren't selling them two months from starting develoment ;)

  • Harper420Harper420 Port, WAMember Posts: 40

    So I joined the skype chat of the developers of greed monger for a day, and this is my impression.

     

    http://forum.wurmonline.com/index.php?/topic/69845-greed-monger/page__st__120#entry697337

     

    Posted on the wurms online board so he has no ability to censor it like he has everything else. Also please read his posts earlier on that forum, he does quite afew really outlandish, egotistical and menaical things. He has threatened to sue both Wurms Online forum and a random member on there.  It is quite sad we gave him the money to envoke fear on someone stating there opinion.

     

    Not only that but there are multiple lies and cover ups going on and there all pointed out directly in that forum. As they should be, why were arguing on some random forum? I have no idea ask the mastermind behind this kickstarter scam.

  • hfztthfztt GlostrupMember Posts: 1,109 Uncommon
    Originally posted by waynejr2
    The Wright brothers didn't have any experience building airplanes and look what they started...

    Neither did anyone else at the time.

    I fail to see how that case relates to this case.

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAMember Posts: 14,247 Rare

    This is steamrolling toward a drama level sure to rival both Glitchless and Red Dragon Software.

     

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • AmanaAmana New York, NYModerator Posts: 3,912 Uncommon
    For the future, when developers are also members of the community, in general, callouts are not allowed, but this has kind of run its course, with both sides opining. The OP has had his say, the Greed Monger team responded and before it continues in a circle, I'm locking it. 

    To give feedback on moderation, contact mikeb@mmorpg.com

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