Originally posted by nariusseldon Originally posted by XiaokiOriginally posted by dreamscaperEve is the only MMORPG I'm aware of that has steadily grown over the years, instead of slowly bleeding subs like most others.
Yeah, even WoW sold big at launch then sank like a stone.???
It added subs over the year to 12M, dropped back down to 9M 2 year ago, and back up to 10M.
So what sank like a stone?
Type this:
/sarcasmdetector 1
Perhaps you should read the post I responded to first before knee jerk reacting to mine.
Originally posted by dreamscaperEve is the only MMORPG I'm aware of that has steadily grown over the years, instead of slowly bleeding subs like most others.
Yeah, even WoW sold big at launch then sank like a stone.
???
It added subs over the year to 12M, dropped back down to 9M 2 year ago, and back up to 10M.
So what sank like a stone?
Type this:
/sarcasmdetector 1
Perhaps you should read the post I responded to first before knee jerk reacting to mine.
Originally posted by Teala They're all mediocre at best, even WoW has losts its shine, so yeah...I'd say MMO's are on the decline. Until games designers of this genre go back to making persistent virtual game worlds - these games will continue to decline in popularity.
I agree. The latest trend to give these big epic personal stories just doesn't fit the MMO genre. An MMO's story needs to be about the world itself, not the individual player's character. They need to do that by making a very detailed world that feels like a world, not an amusement park. The more they add and rely on things of convenience like the auction house, a minimap and map with every detail of the world pointed out to the player, and large identifiers where quests are, the more it moves away from the virtual world.
Most any noteworthy game release, be it on PC, console, mobile, contains all of the novel aspects that MMORPGs used to exclusivly offer.
MMOs aren't on the decline. They're just spread really thin now.
It does range from crafting / collecting players playing casual social games like Farmville, and compeditive PVPers finding more action on games like League of Legends, to explorers and world shapers finding better experiences on games like Skyrim.
The MMORPG as a single entity is archaic tech now.
MMORPG developers haven't progressed what so ever in the last decade with MMO design. Other game platforms have.
This.
The "MMOs" that people are gravitating towards are Team Fortress 2, Torchlight 2, the uber number of Zynga Facebook games, Skyrim, and so on.
Are these "MMOs?" No, but the MMOs abandoned these players far earlier than they abandoned the MMOs they used to play. And they are cheaper. And they give everything these players want without all the MMO stuff they don't need.
__________________________ "Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it." --Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints." --Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls." --Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
The economy is so bad that people are even giving up their monthly MMO subscriptions.
Pardon any spelling errors
Konfess your cyns and some maybe forgiven Boy: Why can't I talk to Him? Mom: We don't talk to Priests. As if it could exist, without being payed for. F2P means you get what you paid for. Pay nothing, get nothing. Even telemarketers wouldn't think that. It costs money to play. Therefore P2W.
All the games that have gone f2p the past few years it's no surprise overall sub numbers are down. Just the other day playing PlanetSide2 I had to remind myself the game is free now.... I paid $120 for StreetFighter II back in the day, kids today so spoilt and prob don't realise.
I honestly believe not all MMOs have to choose either $15 or f2p. Honesly, going $8-10 for some games keeps a constant stream of cash every month, weeds out several "want it free" players and hopefully maintaining the game's mentality instead of elitist/gold buying mentalities, and provides gamers a feel that they should keep playing till the end.
Of course, thats just in a view of how a perfect game would go. Until I find people planning out MMOs from absolute scratch rather than going on with what they found successful in other games, not much will be changed if it's RPG style.
1.) There are more MMOs on the market than ever before, so getting players really requires a fresh approach to long term engagment.
2.) Along with the above statement, games have been doing a TERRIBLE job at taking this fresh approach. They all seem very similar with just different skins.
3.) The F2P model encourages this types of behaviour.
I mean the MMO market is currently noted as $1.6B in the US and about $6.5B Worldwide. With like 300 MMOs out there that leaves about $18M in annual revenue if each had equal market share. Unfortunately, most MMOs need to hit about the $50M to $60M mark to both turn a profit and deliver content at a steady enough pace. So the F2P model is meant to get increasing levels of cash from a smaller player base.
It's a tough market now, and I personally believe the F2P model is NOT the one for the future. I think MMOs charge for the initial game, give away the sub and go with charging for content updates on a regular basis. Not the micro-transactions of today.
The f2p model does not ENCOURAGES THIS TYPES OF BEHAVIOR. I am sick of people putting down f2p. P2p = greedy corp. F2p equals shareholding in a game so the less privileged can also play to increase game population. It works. Most of all you don't feel committed to play CONSTANTLY because you paid for a month which is about to run out.
I believe Blade and Soul has some positive numbers at the moment. It has only be released in Korea, but it already has almost as much sales as Guild Wars 2 according to the last report.
Due to frequent travel in my youth, English isn't something I consider my primary language (and thus I obtained quirky ways of writing). German and French were always easier for me despite my family being U.S. citizens for over a century. Spanish I learned as a requirement in school, Japanese and Korean I acquired for my youthful desire of anime and gaming (and also work now). I only debate in English to help me work with it (and limit things). In addition, I'm not smart enough to remain fluent in everything and typically need exposure to get in the groove of things again if I haven't heard it in a while. If you understand Mandarin, I know a little, but it has actually been a challenge and could use some help.
Also, I thoroughly enjoy debates and have accounts on over a dozen sites for this. If you wish to engage in such, please put effort in a post and provide sources -- I will then do the same with what I already wrote (if I didn't) as well as with my responses to your own. Expanding my information on a subject makes my stance either change or strengthen the next time I speak of it or write a thesis. Allow me to thank you sincerely for your time.
Video games in general individually decline. There are very few exceptions to this. WoW and Eve are the only exceptions to this that I can think of. Oddly enough, even though every video game released declines in numbers, the overall number of gamers increases. Not sure if that's true for MMORPG as well, but it certainly seems possible.
Isn't wow in major decline now? Hard to tell for sure if course but I thought they had lost a million or two from peak.
Short attention spans, it's that simple. And, like I said before, it's no real surprise that game dev's are making nothing but shallow MMO's designed to maximize profits in as short a time as possible, rather than create a long-term service.
I think that is simply perceptual bias. People where prepared to do the same thing over and over and over and over and over again. Grind was there instead of content and real gameplay, people just bought into it. 10 hours killing the same mobs for a bubble of experience, no problem. EQ hell levels, everyone hated them but lubed up and took it.
Of course with only a handful of games to choose from you could not hop to another one and with 100's and 100's of hours 'invested' (just to get anywhere at all) you would think long and hard before doing so anyway. One of the reasons for WoW's launch sucess (admittedly not the main one) was that it was much less 'hardcore', even so it was grindier than most of what's on the market nowadays.
not trying to bust peoples bubbles here but this is pretty accurate with rift it is declining already from expansion release and you can go back months and see for yourself it had a small influx of players playing it , but slowly each week it continues to go back to down under 2k logins for most shards.
There really hasnt been a lot of strong games to hold peoples attention for very long so you are seeing a lot of hoping around game to game for the last couple of years. I know ive played just in the last two months guild wars 2 , SWTOR, TSW, EQ2, Rift, and now WAR once again. My reasons are no one game does things right in my mind enough to make me want to stick to it for longer than a couple of weeks. There is no game out there currently like the old school games that are the entire package like DAOC was to me for years and then warhammer for almost 2 years also. I enjoy that sort of pvp and combat but GW2 fell so short as did the secret world and rift when it came to fun pvp IMO.
Im sure people are jumping around as they burn out of one game and then fill their hobby with another.
Comments
???
It added subs over the year to 12M, dropped back down to 9M 2 year ago, and back up to 10M.
So what sank like a stone?
Type this:
/sarcasmdetector 1
Perhaps you should read the post I responded to first before knee jerk reacting to mine.
Hey, I almost missed the sarcasm -_-
Yeah, love it or hate it, WoW is holding steady.
I agree. The latest trend to give these big epic personal stories just doesn't fit the MMO genre. An MMO's story needs to be about the world itself, not the individual player's character. They need to do that by making a very detailed world that feels like a world, not an amusement park. The more they add and rely on things of convenience like the auction house, a minimap and map with every detail of the world pointed out to the player, and large identifiers where quests are, the more it moves away from the virtual world.
OR....
Are you just posting to get views?
This.
The "MMOs" that people are gravitating towards are Team Fortress 2, Torchlight 2, the uber number of Zynga Facebook games, Skyrim, and so on.
Are these "MMOs?" No, but the MMOs abandoned these players far earlier than they abandoned the MMOs they used to play. And they are cheaper. And they give everything these players want without all the MMO stuff they don't need.
__________________________
"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
We average 5 or 6 new games a year? 1 gets shut down every 2 years?
The numbers are thinning.
Boy: Why can't I talk to Him?
Mom: We don't talk to Priests.
As if it could exist, without being payed for.
F2P means you get what you paid for. Pay nothing, get nothing.
Even telemarketers wouldn't think that.
It costs money to play. Therefore P2W.
I honestly believe not all MMOs have to choose either $15 or f2p. Honesly, going $8-10 for some games keeps a constant stream of cash every month, weeds out several "want it free" players and hopefully maintaining the game's mentality instead of elitist/gold buying mentalities, and provides gamers a feel that they should keep playing till the end.
Of course, thats just in a view of how a perfect game would go. Until I find people planning out MMOs from absolute scratch rather than going on with what they found successful in other games, not much will be changed if it's RPG style.
The f2p model does not ENCOURAGES THIS TYPES OF BEHAVIOR. I am sick of people putting down f2p. P2p = greedy corp. F2p equals shareholding in a game so the less privileged can also play to increase game population. It works. Most of all you don't feel committed to play CONSTANTLY because you paid for a month which is about to run out.
The rest I agree with.
I believe Blade and Soul has some positive numbers at the moment. It has only be released in Korea, but it already has almost as much sales as Guild Wars 2 according to the last report.
Isn't wow in major decline now? Hard to tell for sure if course but I thought they had lost a million or two from peak.
I think that is simply perceptual bias. People where prepared to do the same thing over and over and over and over and over again. Grind was there instead of content and real gameplay, people just bought into it. 10 hours killing the same mobs for a bubble of experience, no problem. EQ hell levels, everyone hated them but lubed up and took it.
Of course with only a handful of games to choose from you could not hop to another one and with 100's and 100's of hours 'invested' (just to get anywhere at all) you would think long and hard before doing so anyway. One of the reasons for WoW's launch sucess (admittedly not the main one) was that it was much less 'hardcore', even so it was grindier than most of what's on the market nowadays.
http://www.riftstatus.net/shards/na/stats
not trying to bust peoples bubbles here but this is pretty accurate with rift it is declining already from expansion release and you can go back months and see for yourself it had a small influx of players playing it , but slowly each week it continues to go back to down under 2k logins for most shards.
There really hasnt been a lot of strong games to hold peoples attention for very long so you are seeing a lot of hoping around game to game for the last couple of years. I know ive played just in the last two months guild wars 2 , SWTOR, TSW, EQ2, Rift, and now WAR once again. My reasons are no one game does things right in my mind enough to make me want to stick to it for longer than a couple of weeks. There is no game out there currently like the old school games that are the entire package like DAOC was to me for years and then warhammer for almost 2 years also. I enjoy that sort of pvp and combat but GW2 fell so short as did the secret world and rift when it came to fun pvp IMO.
Im sure people are jumping around as they burn out of one game and then fill their hobby with another.