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Why PVP scares some people?
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+1
if anyone is frightened its FFA full loot pvp'rs. every time a game has gone that route or had servers which did, those games and servers quickly became defunct or simply quiet as a graveyard. the FFA people have a game rebooting for them in DF but that's it. no mmo is willing to do it b/c the vast majority of players do not enjoy being forced to play their game the way someone else wants them to.
i am for pvp. i think SWG had a great system for that which included flagging oneself and being flagged for attacking opposing faction npcs/pcs.
i don't want to be forced into crafting or raiding or questing when i dont want to, why would i want to be forced into pvp?
"There are at least two kinds of games.
One could be called finite, the other infinite.
A finite game is played for the purpose of winning,
an infinite game for the purpose of continuing play."
Finite and Infinite Games, James Carse
Having played on the Fury server in AoC - my first real foray into OWPvP I have to say the shear number of people engaging in this kind of behaviour was depressing. There were no flags on that server - but the degree of ganking, corpse jumping, playground insults etc. was difficult for anyone with the slightest degree of maturity to understand ot tolerate for long. I very much enjoyed the OWPvP when it was lacking in such idiocy - in fact when a little roleplay was thrown in - e.g when two barbarians came up to my necromancer and started to insult me because they felt I was dishonouring the dead by reanimating them, I appreciated the ass kicking I got after I arrongantly laughed at them as fools. But alas, all too often OWPvP was tainted with shitty behaviour and didn't come close to such quality play.
The fact is, PvP players fall roughly into two camps (and yes, I know many bridge it too) - the ones who enjoy the challenge and playstyle, and the ones who get a buzz from one-sided encounters, ganking and endless insults afterwards - the kinds of people who will try their hardest to utterly ruin the online experience of other people and then wail endlessly if any controls are put in place - guards, consequence systems, flags etc.
The OP does seem to empathise with the latter type of player. Seriously thinking that a desire to avoid the 'borstal playground' bahaviour of such PvP players is an issue of 'fear' is clearly ridiculous. To think it is a factor is more of an indication of the mindset of the person asking the question than it will ever be of those refered to.
I think OWPvP is something which can enrich a game - but ONLY when the consequence system is effective and takes an eye for an eye apporach. If you set out to ruin the experience for another player by repeatedly ganking and griefing - the powerful and lawful NPC factions in the game should seriously punish you. Have a system where you accrue 'negative reputation' points based on how civilised an area is where you fight, how balanced the fight is and how much you gank or grief. Have these points slowly count down over time - so a little of such activity, and the innevitable accidents that will occur don't really matter - but repeat offending does.
Consequences then rack up rapidly if you don't stop doing it - your sorry little PC gets arrested by guards and put in prison for an hour real time; you are fined substantial amounts of gold; reputable vendors won't trade with you for a week and for a month after everything costs double; you earn insults and catcalls from every normal NPC in the game for a month and a bounty system allows you to be hunted down and stomped on by every other PC in the game without them suffering any negative consequences and they get gold for delivering your head to local NPCs... with fatality emotes including spitting or urinating on your corpse.
THAT's what used to happen in the real world when things were a little less civilised, and it's the only thing that works...
... can you imagine the wailing about 'my game is ruined' from such people suffering payback under such circumstances!?
The only excuse to kill and kill without being punished is when you are at war or when nobody cares (such as in a lawless area). Put mechanisms in the game for this so war suspends the 'negative reputation system' and an understanding that certain areas in the game world are so wild and remote that banditry and murder in such areas will accrue far fewer negative reputation points, and OWPvP can occur - it just cannot become the purile joke it normally is.
Add to this a system where lawless areas can be made lawful by PC actions - and indeed where such areas can be changed back by the same - and you get a self-balancing system where player interraction is structured but both playstyles can be catered for.
Why I have impression that OP meant "real man do not pve, they pvp"? Actually ... real man do not play games at all.
For the rest, tried few times but discovered there are to many psychos in games. Is all down to kind of player one is. Have few friends that enjoy most jumping on throat of "enemy" when this one is already half life from mobs fight. Or killing player zillion levels below its own. On the other side I'm kind of person that will always help player in trouble, for me does not matter faction. In games I do not see this as in soccer match, or tennis match, ... that is fun, in games or in real life. Always loved that. Joy of pvp is more .. weird, twisted way of enjoying ruining somebody day. I'm simply not that kind of person.
GW1 Factions had political/social/economic aspects tied to its regional battles, which were all instanced. Guilds and factions would take control over the map changing what content was accessable to members of your faction. Granted there was nothing diplomatic about it.
Back to the OP, GW1 is by far the best example of PvP in a RPG. Granted its a more of a Co Op RPG, not really a MMO. Whole team builds and strategy were meaningful. You werent better than anyone because you spent 100 hours and they have only spent 10. You were better because you worked as a team. Thats what a MMO should be about, working as a team, not outgearing / outleveling someone else.
I like playing a PvP-focused MMO, but I don't feel rejected or criticised that other people don't. I'm not a big fan of romantic comedies or horror movies, but that's fine I can watch an action thriller or a nature documentary without hating rom-com lovers or calling horror fans mentally disturbed.
There are hundreds of PvE-focused MMOs for those who like PvE to play and then look! We can all be happy! Choices!
All I ask is that people who don't like PvP MMOs don't try and change the one I like into a PvE MMO. There seem to be an element who believe that they're entitled to endlessly cry to the developers to completely change the character of my game, and they don't give 2 flips about what I or people like me who have supported the game for many years like: they want their way now! I'd like them to respect the choice that I and people like me have made, just as they demend respect for their choice.
Same for sandbox vs themepark, tbh. Don't join a game that's openly advertised as being based on player interaction, ignore everyone else who plays it, and then whine that it "lacks content". That's as dumb as complaining that there's no love theme in Rambo or that there's no characterisation in a David Attenborough show.
Give me liberty or give me lasers
Because they are bads and they don't like getting "the beat down" put on them.
Joking aside, whilst the above is true in some cases no doubt, in reality there are countless reasons for people not to want to get involved in pvp. Prime among them is simply that they don't enjoy it.
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
And the conclusion is still wrong. It's two different objectives at play. It has nothing to do with fears or flaws or the real possibility of to lose, to die or have much work.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Then we can tell all the amateur psychologists to bugger off and play that.
Problem with your post is your entire premise is flawed and you make far too many presumptions. First of all, no one is "afraid of PvP". That's just ridiculous, and right from the start you're putting those who don't like PvP in this "cowardly" light. Doesn't bode well for the rest of your post.
Further, you're trying to psychoanalyze something that doesn't require it, especially considering there have been many discussions about this topic where people have come right out and explained why they don't like PvP.
Some people simply don't enjoy PvP style gameplay, just as others don't enjoy PvE. It's a preference. Some people enjoy both equally! Imagine that! I happen to fall into the "enjoys both" category.
Other people prefer the idea of cooperating with others against a common enemy instead of competing against them. And no, that's not those people "fitting in to your category of them being afraid of other players attacking them", so don't even go there. They prefer cooperation over competition - that's all there is to it.
Other people don't like a certain type of player PvP MMOs tend to attract - that is, the one who's not interested in PvP itself (they typically run from anything that remotely resembles a challenge), but just enjoys the fact that a PvP MMO gives them a free ticket to run around acting like a jackass.
People don't like PvP for all those and other reasons. "Being afraid of it" has nothing to do with it. It's rather funny how you keep trying to spin people's explanations against them, so you can "neatly" squeeze them into one of your pre-determined "categories". It further demonstrates how simplistic and narrow-minded your understanding is of people in general.
It's really not some big, deep and complex subject, and it's certainly not as "neat and simple" to define as you try to make it sound.
Nothing against PvP in general, played some competitive multiplayer not too long ago. I got nothing against it in mmos either, afterall, I highly respect games like EVE and UO, and I wish we could get more games like that.
Problem is however, that a lot of games have PvP that is downright terribly executed, an as a result is not a lot of fun. Examples of this includes WoW. PvP feels like it is nothing more than a tacked on minigame, one that adds absolutely nothing to the core experience. WoW is focused on instances and getting better loot. WoW is not a PvP game, and PvP really is the weakest link in that game.
Of course, you may feel differently, but PvP to a lot of players is not particulary fun in games that arent built around it.
This is probably the biggest reason that most PvE gamers avoid PvP in MMOs.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
PVP is one of those bullet points required for marketing a modern game.
But you can tell from the products that a lot of dev teams don't really have their hearts in it.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
sometimes its hard to loose and item or experience for which you spend a lot of amound of time, so i believe most people are afraid the cost of loss ...
in these terms i loved the open pvp with penalties for the serial killers and not full loot, not loot at all !!! but anyway
also when there is a sub (like EVE which have a well balanced open world pvp system) then the feel that you losepaid time, makes you anxious and you lose the joy, i wish EVE was without sub ...
You are completely wrong. Read my others posts and see for yourself if i like gankers or no. In one of these posts, i advocate a system where a high lv player has your lv automaticaly decreased when entering a lower lv zone.
That post was specifically adressed only to people that say to avoid/hate pvp only because balance/fainess issues or because the pvp fight is crap. I showed that pve is far worst than pvp in these same aspects, therefore these aren't the real reasons to them avoid/hate pvp.
Actually, you showed nothing, because they are two different objectives. In PvE, the player is killing mobs to get to their goal. In PvP, killing the player is the goal. Presence of a similar mechanic (combat) between the two activities does not automatically make them the same activity, thus the reasons for playing and the perception of the challenges presented are not only distinctly different but incomparable.
Once you understand that we can then move forward with the conversation.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
And hardcore raid types with their gear scores and dkp systems and arcane internal guild hierarchies don't?
How is it a single players game when:
- you trade with others on AH?
- you group with others in dungeons?
- you show off your gear to others?
You don't need pvp at all for a MMORPG.