Has there ever been a single soul who has watched star wars and seen the name star wars ever disassociated it from Lucasarts ?
I am also very curious when people say most people or everyone or a majority exactly what statistic they are using. By all accounts WoW would be much hated and despised and should have a population of a few hundred based on this site anyway , yet it thrives. Of course that is because Blizzard lies and cheats but their stockholders seem happy.
What one player enjoys is personal to them. As is evidenced games many others would not touch are enjoyed by others. Same with SWTOR there are people who love it even if many here are unable to grasp that and continue to shake their heads in disbelief that anyone can like SWTOR . There are players out there continuing to enjoy the game.
Games can also continue to make money even if they do not have a large number of people playing if they are making a profit and only EA knows what that is even if we would like to speculate we are not in a position to know what that figure is and if indeed the game has been considered by EA as a complete loss. However SWG was shut down that is a fact. So even if it had more potential or what have you that game had a very small population playing it and in the end it was shut down.
City of X was shut down eventhough it wass till making money. So what keeps games up or whetehr EA has every intention of shutting down SWTOR is all up in the clouds. I do not see any credible post here about SWTOR or the success of its F2P or failure all we have are disgruntled exfans who have a bone to pick with the game and cannot get over the reality that others may have a different interest from their own .Well hardly surprising when you see that number of insults flung at WoW players questioning their intellect and earning capacity to lodgings.
Someone mentioned Age of Conan's budget ,can you link a source for it as well as a link to the budget for making SWTOR. No rumours please let's deal in facts.
I just do not see a future in SWTOR. According to EAs reports the subs have lost about 75% of players from launch, that is aboyut 1.5 million people who do not want to carry on playing.
SWTOR has now received merges and gone F2P, but what would have been better is them adding the content that it was supposed to have. They said they had enough story for SWTOR from KOTOR 3-9 and beyond. So where is it?
They have layed off staff, and the game has pretty much jumped straight to NGE status in 2006. At least with SWG they tried with CU and NGE, but I guess they are not doing a CU or a NGE because of the history with SWG, but the difference, for those who like each game, is SWTORs has an attention span of a few months whereas SWGs was infinite. There are plenty of things to keep you entertained in SWG, I do not see what keeps people playing SWTOR, it is just monotonous repetitive gameplay after a couple of characters, because EA/Bioware do not enhance the game at all.
The only bone I have with SWTOR is that they have given up on the game, and we are now not getting all that promised content. Also the way they handled the merges caused me to delete characters as being on the same server stuffed up my Legacy trees. SWTOR is what it is. Games like STO, WOW, TSW, Rift, LOTRO and all other MMOs are expanding and evolving all the time, with content first and mostly, with merges/F2P last
SWG and COH did shut down, and both had more positive aura about them staying active. Paragon Studios themselves were shocked by the fact NC Soft chose to shut it down. It went F2P only last year, and there were was more updates to come. SWG had several pieces of major content in the pipeline and both SOE and LA stated that SWG would still run alongside SWTOR as both games were different enough to co-exist, but then it shuts down on the day SWTOR starts early access? Too much of a coincidence to ignore the fact that SWTORs release caused SWGs shutdown - In with New, Out with the old, and leaves only one Star Wars game to go to, cutting out the cometition. If SWG had stayed active, SWTOR would be a lot deader than it is now. Convenient huh?
Add in the fact they still say the game requires the equivalent of 500K subs to break even. So unless they get this figure how can they make a profit on it?
The game has a boos nowt in population with F2P but History has proven that people do not stick with the game, and the game has not changed in any way to make people want to stay with the game, so in about 3 months time, it is quite safe to say that people will start leaving the game again.
SWG closing was far from nice, and for those loving SWTOR should just accept that, and get the most of it while it is active. If you think it is going to last for years and years and then it shuts down before 2014, then it will just hurt tonnes more.
Basically NOTHING coming from EA/Bioware is positive at all about SWTOR, unlike there was SWG and COH, but yet these 2 still shut down. I do not see the point in bothering with a game that has no future, and a company that treats players like scum. EA/Bioware are far worse than SOE
Has there ever been a single soul who has watched star wars and seen the name star wars ever disassociated it from Lucasarts ?
I am also very curious when people say most people or everyone or a majority exactly what statistic they are using. By all accounts WoW would be much hated and despised and should have a population of a few hundred based on this site anyway , yet it thrives. Of course that is because Blizzard lies and cheats but their stockholders seem happy.
What one player enjoys is personal to them. As is evidenced games many others would not touch are enjoyed by others. Same with SWTOR there are people who love it even if many here are unable to grasp that and continue to shake their heads in disbelief that anyone can like SWTOR . There are players out there continuing to enjoy the game.
Games can also continue to make money even if they do not have a large number of people playing if they are making a profit and only EA knows what that is even if we would like to speculate we are not in a position to know what that figure is and if indeed the game has been considered by EA as a complete loss. However SWG was shut down that is a fact. So even if it had more potential or what have you that game had a very small population playing it and in the end it was shut down.
City of X was shut down eventhough it wass till making money. So what keeps games up or whetehr EA has every intention of shutting down SWTOR is all up in the clouds. I do not see any credible post here about SWTOR or the success of its F2P or failure all we have are disgruntled exfans who have a bone to pick with the game and cannot get over the reality that others may have a different interest from their own .Well hardly surprising when you see that number of insults flung at WoW players questioning their intellect and earning capacity to lodgings.
Someone mentioned Age of Conan's budget ,can you link a source for it as well as a link to the budget for making SWTOR. No rumours please let's deal in facts.
I just do not see a future in SWTOR. According to EAs reports the subs have lost about 75% of players from launch, that is aboyut 1.5 million people who do not want to carry on playing.
SWTOR has now received merges and gone F2P, but what would have been better is them adding the content that it was supposed to have. They said they had enough story for SWTOR from KOTOR 3-9 and beyond. So where is it?
They have layed off staff, and the game has pretty much jumped straight to NGE status in 2006. At least with SWG they tried with CU and NGE, but I guess they are not doing a CU or a NGE because of the history with SWG, but the difference, for those who like each game, is SWTORs has an attention span of a few months whereas SWGs was infinite. There are plenty of things to keep you entertained in SWG, I do not see what keeps people playing SWTOR, it is just monotonous repetitive gameplay after a couple of characters, because EA/Bioware do not enhance the game at all.
The only bone I have with SWTOR is that they have given up on the game, and we are now not getting all that promised content. Also the way they handled the merges caused me to delete characters as being on the same server stuffed up my Legacy trees. SWTOR is what it is. Games like STO, WOW, TSW, Rift, LOTRO and all other MMOs are expanding and evolving all the time, with content first and mostly, with merges/F2P last
SWG and COH did shut down, and both had more positive aura about them staying active. Paragon Studios themselves were shocked by the fact NC Soft chose to shut it down. It went F2P only last year, and there were was more updates to come. SWG had several pieces of major content in the pipeline and both SOE and LA stated that SWG would still run alongside SWTOR as both games were different enough to co-exist, but then it shuts down on the day SWTOR starts early access? Too much of a coincidence to ignore the fact that SWTORs release caused SWGs shutdown - In with New, Out with the old, and leaves only one Star Wars game to go to, cutting out the cometition. If SWG had stayed active, SWTOR would be a lot deader than it is now. Convenient huh?
Add in the fact they still say the game requires the equivalent of 500K subs to break even. So unless they get this figure how can they make a profit on it?
The game has a boos nowt in population with F2P but History has proven that people do not stick with the game, and the game has not changed in any way to make people want to stay with the game, so in about 3 months time, it is quite safe to say that people will start leaving the game again.
SWG closing was far from nice, and for those loving SWTOR should just accept that, and get the most of it while it is active. If you think it is going to last for years and years and then it shuts down before 2014, then it will just hurt tonnes more.
Basically NOTHING coming from EA/Bioware is positive at all about SWTOR, unlike there was SWG and COH, but yet these 2 still shut down. I do not see the point in bothering with a game that has no future, and a company that treats players like scum. EA/Bioware are far worse than SOE
I always enjoy a good conspiracy theory...
You should call up Georgy boy OOps I mean Disney and ask them how much for a license, then do the math.
I think a more plausible theory... Would be that the license expired and SOE didnt feel it was profitable to renew.
Has there ever been a single soul who has watched star wars and seen the name star wars ever disassociated it from Lucasarts ?
I am also very curious when people say most people or everyone or a majority exactly what statistic they are using. By all accounts WoW would be much hated and despised and should have a population of a few hundred based on this site anyway , yet it thrives. Of course that is because Blizzard lies and cheats but their stockholders seem happy.
What one player enjoys is personal to them. As is evidenced games many others would not touch are enjoyed by others. Same with SWTOR there are people who love it even if many here are unable to grasp that and continue to shake their heads in disbelief that anyone can like SWTOR . There are players out there continuing to enjoy the game.
Games can also continue to make money even if they do not have a large number of people playing if they are making a profit and only EA knows what that is even if we would like to speculate we are not in a position to know what that figure is and if indeed the game has been considered by EA as a complete loss. However SWG was shut down that is a fact. So even if it had more potential or what have you that game had a very small population playing it and in the end it was shut down.
City of X was shut down eventhough it wass till making money. So what keeps games up or whetehr EA has every intention of shutting down SWTOR is all up in the clouds. I do not see any credible post here about SWTOR or the success of its F2P or failure all we have are disgruntled exfans who have a bone to pick with the game and cannot get over the reality that others may have a different interest from their own .Well hardly surprising when you see that number of insults flung at WoW players questioning their intellect and earning capacity to lodgings.
Someone mentioned Age of Conan's budget ,can you link a source for it as well as a link to the budget for making SWTOR. No rumours please let's deal in facts.
I just do not see a future in SWTOR. According to EAs reports the subs have lost about 75% of players from launch, that is aboyut 1.5 million people who do not want to carry on playing.
SWTOR has now received merges and gone F2P, but what would have been better is them adding the content that it was supposed to have. They said they had enough story for SWTOR from KOTOR 3-9 and beyond. So where is it?
They have layed off staff, and the game has pretty much jumped straight to NGE status in 2006. At least with SWG they tried with CU and NGE, but I guess they are not doing a CU or a NGE because of the history with SWG, but the difference, for those who like each game, is SWTORs has an attention span of a few months whereas SWGs was infinite. There are plenty of things to keep you entertained in SWG, I do not see what keeps people playing SWTOR, it is just monotonous repetitive gameplay after a couple of characters, because EA/Bioware do not enhance the game at all.
The only bone I have with SWTOR is that they have given up on the game, and we are now not getting all that promised content. Also the way they handled the merges caused me to delete characters as being on the same server stuffed up my Legacy trees. SWTOR is what it is. Games like STO, WOW, TSW, Rift, LOTRO and all other MMOs are expanding and evolving all the time, with content first and mostly, with merges/F2P last
SWG and COH did shut down, and both had more positive aura about them staying active. Paragon Studios themselves were shocked by the fact NC Soft chose to shut it down. It went F2P only last year, and there were was more updates to come. SWG had several pieces of major content in the pipeline and both SOE and LA stated that SWG would still run alongside SWTOR as both games were different enough to co-exist, but then it shuts down on the day SWTOR starts early access? Too much of a coincidence to ignore the fact that SWTORs release caused SWGs shutdown - In with New, Out with the old, and leaves only one Star Wars game to go to, cutting out the cometition. If SWG had stayed active, SWTOR would be a lot deader than it is now. Convenient huh?
Add in the fact they still say the game requires the equivalent of 500K subs to break even. So unless they get this figure how can they make a profit on it?
The game has a boos nowt in population with F2P but History has proven that people do not stick with the game, and the game has not changed in any way to make people want to stay with the game, so in about 3 months time, it is quite safe to say that people will start leaving the game again.
SWG closing was far from nice, and for those loving SWTOR should just accept that, and get the most of it while it is active. If you think it is going to last for years and years and then it shuts down before 2014, then it will just hurt tonnes more.
Basically NOTHING coming from EA/Bioware is positive at all about SWTOR, unlike there was SWG and COH, but yet these 2 still shut down. I do not see the point in bothering with a game that has no future, and a company that treats players like scum. EA/Bioware are far worse than SOE
I always enjoy a good conspiracy theory...
You should call up Georgy boy OOps I mean Disney and ask them how much for a license, then do the math.
I think a more plausible theory... Would be that the license expired and SOE didnt feel it was profitable to renew.
Both actually, the licence expired in 2012, not 2011, so closed down a few months early, but it all lined up neatly with SWTORs release. LA / SOE / EA all worked together to make it all happen. Plus if SOE was 100% (without LA or EA )with the closure then they would not have given 6 months notice, but only the usual 2 or 3. The whole SWG shutdown and SWTOR launch was all planned
There is no conspiracy theories just crappy mutual business decisions
I understand that a lot of people have hate for TOR. They want their specific type of game and they had high hopes for TOR. And for them, it wasn't even close.
I enjoy playing TOR for the story aspect. The Combat isn't terrible, but personally, it blows games such as gw2 out of the water. But that's me. I play the game very casual with a few friends.
I'll come back to TOR in a minute.
I recently started my ten day trial for cata in WoW. I had not played in over two years. I had huge feelings of nostalgia for WoW recently. Why? Because of playing a game I enjoy with my friends (TOR currently). I remembered how I used to play with SO many people in WoW and how fun it was playing with people I knew. I wanted to experience more of that feeling. So I started play WoW again.
In relation to TOR and games in general, for me, the game can only take it so far. Sure, a game needs to be fun. But I also want to play with friends. Playing with friends makes or breaks any multiplayer game for me. I'm not saying I don't go out and meet new people in game, far from it. I love meeting new people. But playing with people you have known since SWG release is always a bit more fun.
Anyways, back to the post. I think everyone who could have tried or heard of TOR has. I think 99% of them have formed their opinion, positive or negative. Yet people come here still trying to shout out how much they hate the game and how bad it is. There are very few people who openly say the game is great and shout out that feeling. And for good reason. Yet they are being told they are wrong because most others left the game and feel otherwise.
People hate on GW2, no doubt. They hate on other games. But I think with how high of esteem people hold Star Wars (and for some silly reason, the rest of SWG other then crafting), this one hurts them more. So they want to 'hurt" back. At least, that's the only reason I can come up with for peoples crusade against the game when everyone already knows how they feel about it.
how much anyone wanna bet that disney is looking for a way to shut down the tortanic? i know i would be at this point, really the best thing disney can do is shut tortanic down and get into everyones good graces by getting a pre-cu swg going again. with raph koster at the helm.
I think game have decent playerbase, but unfortunately is not success. Mainly also because of huge financial investment. They wanted all too perfect. And indeed, swtor for me is best game ever. Or at least sharing first place with wow. With no game in my life, currently 50, have enjoyed so much, just staying and logged in. Yes, there have been time I enjoyed i.e. EQ, if I go back in time, Pacman or original Prince of Persia in 2d, ... but that was at THAT time. I just hope game stay. I love it so much it is only game so far I continue to be subbed even if stopped for short to play Gw2, Tsw and of course now MOP.
You provdie links to a site we aren't supposed to link to.
The links show a B2P MMO still holding #5 behind WoW's #4.
B2P depends more on boc sales and xpac sales then anything, cash shop is bonus.
The second link shows a P2P game which took longer, and much more money to develop, only at #11 after a FTP conversion.
I know that the site you linked to isn't for directly compring one game to another, just to identify trends.
That said, even if I would use that site's analytics to compare the two games, I'd say your evidence was less then compelling for your argument.
LOL so now xfire can't be used in a sentence on this site? What, did they shoehorn that rule in when GW2 launched and immediately started circling the drain?
Anyway, when SWTOR was showing similar numbers to what GW2 is right now, everybody here stuck a fork in it. And now GW2 boxes are headed for the discount bin while Anet has no money coming in from subs.
The writer's contention that GW2 has succeeded where other MMOs have failed is complete garbage.
Originally posted by Ahnog The obvious reply to this is that Lucas Arts did remain. The game credits go to Lucas Arts, Bioware, and EA
THey did not say LA was removed from the credits as a whole. They said they were removed from the "Production Credits"., which you are conveiently overlooking. Looking at the screesnhots there posted earlier the first was "External Production credits", and various other different credits including Audio, so in the end you can not tell if the section of LA were removed from the credits or not. There could have been "Internal Production credits", or other Production credits, that got removed, which is being mentioned in the OP
You provdie links to a site we aren't supposed to link to.
The links show a B2P MMO still holding #5 behind WoW's #4.
B2P depends more on boc sales and xpac sales then anything, cash shop is bonus.
The second link shows a P2P game which took longer, and much more money to develop, only at #11 after a FTP conversion.
I know that the site you linked to isn't for directly compring one game to another, just to identify trends.
That said, even if I would use that site's analytics to compare the two games, I'd say your evidence was less then compelling for your argument.
LOL so now xfire can't be used in a sentence on this site? What, did they shoehorn that rule in when GW2 launched and immediately started circling the drain?
Anyway, when SWTOR was showing similar numbers to what GW2 is right now, everybody here stuck a fork in it. And now GW2 boxes are headed for the discount bin while Anet has no money coming in from subs.
The writer's contention that GW2 has succeeded where other MMOs have failed is complete garbage.
Now that City of Heroes has closed I am not touching GW2 or any game associated with NC Soft ever again. So as far as I am concerned SWTOR > GW2 + all other NC Soft games, but I am not posting about it on the forums, as I do not give a crap about GW2 success or failure. However all other MMOs (except NC Soft ones) > SWTOR
All I would like from SWTOR atm is the ability to purchase at least up to 12 char slots, with subbers able to purchase more, then I can play SWTOR again. With it being stuck at 2 or 6 makes it unplayable
You provdie links to a site we aren't supposed to link to.
The links show a B2P MMO still holding #5 behind WoW's #4.
B2P depends more on boc sales and xpac sales then anything, cash shop is bonus.
The second link shows a P2P game which took longer, and much more money to develop, only at #11 after a FTP conversion.
I know that the site you linked to isn't for directly compring one game to another, just to identify trends.
That said, even if I would use that site's analytics to compare the two games, I'd say your evidence was less then compelling for your argument.
LOL so now xfire can't be used in a sentence on this site? What, did they shoehorn that rule in when GW2 launched and immediately started circling the drain?
Anyway, when SWTOR was showing similar numbers to what GW2 is right now, everybody here stuck a fork in it. And now GW2 boxes are headed for the discount bin while Anet has no money coming in from subs.
The writer's contention that GW2 has succeeded where other MMOs have failed is complete garbage.
Yes, they shoehorned that rule in because everyone is out to get SWTOR. Why would you even care? In the old threads about the unmentionable site, you said their data was useless. In fact, you said Nielson's was a better metric.
Just to jog your memory. GW2 is at #5, three and a half months later, ToR was #7. That number 7 was before MoP, D3, TSW, Terra, or LOTRO Rohan came out which GW2 although ahead of, has to contend with.
Again you point out that GW2 is a B2P game, and has "no money coming in from subs.", in it's life cycle, 3 and a half months from launch, TOR had announced it was giving everyone a free month of play to apologize for completely screwing up ranked war zones (which are still screwed up) and to pad their quarterly sub count. Really raking it in.
You are right though. You can find GW2 on sale for $50 instead of the $60 original price.
I'm not even going to ook up the ToR price.
I'm not even a GW2 fan, but your post compelled me to comment.
Originally posted by Psychow What's the purpose ofthese threads? Who gives a shit. The game didn't do well. Say goodbye and move on.
Its STAR WARS Psychow this is about fucking with peoples childhood memories, hopes and desires and nothing, I mean nothing is a serious as fucking with kids hopes and desires especially seen through the +10 googles of nostalgia.
This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.
Originally posted by Psychow What's the purpose ofthese threads? Who gives a shit. The game didn't do well. Say goodbye and move on.
Its STAR WARS Psychow this is about fucking with peoples childhood memories, hopes and desires and nothing, I mean nothing is a serious as fucking with kids hopes and desires especially seen through the +10 googles of nostalgia.
My childhood has already been fucked... I'm at the point of not giving a shit anymore and just play STO and some other games while I have an Xbox 360 and play the majority of games on that.
Also why wouldn't they know? Right now they're grubbing as much money as they can milk out of idiots.
What you got there is nothing more than the muppets you see on these forums who come running along screaming "I told you so!!" and states they said this before the game would launch.
I bet you I can make a hundred whiny posts and in a year or so, come back and show you that some of them were right. But I wont, since I have a life...
What's his agenda anyway? Hoping another company will read his statement and think that "Damn, we need to hire that guy, he has insight!"...
"Our" agenda is that companies LISTEN to critics in time, both followers/fans and critique from then inside and not remain opaque to critique, and NOT repeat the same mistakes in MMOs over and over! THAT is our agenda!
Our agenda are GOOD GAMES!
We all want good games. For many people SWTOR is a great game, and you all try everything you can to silence their voices.
I love swtor, it's the best MMO i have never played before
You're not that far from the truth here.
I jus had a conversation with a co-worker the other day and we were talking about gaming and he asked me if I still play SWTOR. I told him that I joined the 2.5 million people and he asked what I meant by saying that.
I stared at him and asked whether he knew or not that the game had had a great start and a fast decline in numbers but he didn't have any clue about the initial sales, population drops or anything that is common knowledge among us here in MMORPG.com.
And we continued to discuss further and he said that he mostly PvPs and is pleased with it. He did say SWTOR is his first MMO, so he really doesn't know what colour are the pastures around the corner. I adviced him to not even go there and see how they are, because he was clearly happy with the game and wanted to play it and was having fun with it.
Sometimes ignorance is a bliss. And although we here are a bit better informed than people in general, we should probably keep our knowledge among us. Herd is happy when they don't smell the wolf.
Following with the main topic, this is a common practice for many companys that doean't want to be related with products they sponsor but know going to fail.
I worked for Games Workshop for several years and they did the same with WAR.
Also their logo is at the failed product, they never talk about the game in their main products or give support to it in any form.
Is taboo for the company and I'm pretty sure LA does the same with SWTOR as they did with SWG during 2006-2008.
Yes, they shoehorned that rule in because everyone is out to get SWTOR. Why would you even care? In the old threads about the unmentionable site, you said their data was useless. In fact, you said Nielson's was a better metric.
Just to jog your memory. GW2 is at #5, three and a half months later, ToR was #7. That number 7 was before MoP, D3, TSW, Terra, or LOTRO Rohan came out which GW2 although ahead of, has to contend with.
Again you point out that GW2 is a B2P game, and has "no money coming in from subs.", in it's life cycle, 3 and a half months from launch, TOR had announced it was giving everyone a free month of play to apologize for completely screwing up ranked war zones (which are still screwed up) and to pad their quarterly sub count. Really raking it in.
You are right though. You can find GW2 on sale for $50 instead of the $60 original price.
I'm not even going to ook up the ToR price.
I'm not even a GW2 fan, but your post compelled me to comment.
Welp, I was wrong. The SWTOR server consolidations correlated with xfire's population data. It wound up being a reasonably accurate source.
And now Warcraft leads GW2 by more than a margin of 2 to 1 and the gap is widening every week as GW2's playerbase evaporates.
Anet has no incentives to fall back on whatsoever as box sales continue falling and markdowns are immenint.
Also don't try to tell me SWTOR didn't have competition when it launched during the holiday season. Seriously just stop.
Yes, they shoehorned that rule in because everyone is out to get SWTOR. Why would you even care? In the old threads about the unmentionable site, you said their data was useless. In fact, you said Nielson's was a better metric.
Just to jog your memory. GW2 is at #5, three and a half months later, ToR was #7. That number 7 was before MoP, D3, TSW, Terra, or LOTRO Rohan came out which GW2 although ahead of, has to contend with.
Again you point out that GW2 is a B2P game, and has "no money coming in from subs.", in it's life cycle, 3 and a half months from launch, TOR had announced it was giving everyone a free month of play to apologize for completely screwing up ranked war zones (which are still screwed up) and to pad their quarterly sub count. Really raking it in.
You are right though. You can find GW2 on sale for $50 instead of the $60 original price.
I'm not even going to ook up the ToR price.
I'm not even a GW2 fan, but your post compelled me to comment.
Welp, I was wrong. The SWTOR server consolidations correlated with xfire's population data. It wound up being a reasonably accurate source.
And now Warcraft leads GW2 by more than a margin of 2 to 1 and the gap is widening every week as GW2's playerbase evaporates.
Anet has no incentives to fall back on whatsoever as box sales continue falling and markdowns are immenint.
Also don't try to tell me SWTOR didn't have competition when it launched during the holiday season. Seriously just stop.
Anet has incentive to keep their gaming experience enjoyable so they can sell new xpacs. That said, their payment model does not depend on monthly subscription revenue.
I'm really not sure why you are going on about GW2 being a huge failure, because even if it was (which it wasn't) what does that have to do with SWTOR exactly. (OP quted the article for the bit about the row between LA+EA with BW)
As to SWTOR facing stiff competioon in its genre when released, I would have to say not som much. EA specificallly chose that date to both capitalize on Holiday sales and avoid direct competition with upcoming titles. THat is why the game was rushed out of closed Beta, with the sudden apperance of the Fleets as social hubs, and the removal of chat bubbles, match to chest, high rez textures, etc. and why the game desperatley tried to play catch up with UI custom ization and Groupfinder.
(No I'm not gong to cite common knowledge, if someone else wants to feel free.)
Yes, they shoehorned that rule in because everyone is out to get SWTOR. Why would you even care? In the old threads about the unmentionable site, you said their data was useless. In fact, you said Nielson's was a better metric.
Just to jog your memory. GW2 is at #5, three and a half months later, ToR was #7. That number 7 was before MoP, D3, TSW, Terra, or LOTRO Rohan came out which GW2 although ahead of, has to contend with.
Again you point out that GW2 is a B2P game, and has "no money coming in from subs.", in it's life cycle, 3 and a half months from launch, TOR had announced it was giving everyone a free month of play to apologize for completely screwing up ranked war zones (which are still screwed up) and to pad their quarterly sub count. Really raking it in.
You are right though. You can find GW2 on sale for $50 instead of the $60 original price.
I'm not even going to ook up the ToR price.
I'm not even a GW2 fan, but your post compelled me to comment.
Welp, I was wrong. The SWTOR server consolidations correlated with xfire's population data. It wound up being a reasonably accurate source.
And now Warcraft leads GW2 by more than a margin of 2 to 1 and the gap is widening every week as GW2's playerbase evaporates.
Anet has no incentives to fall back on whatsoever as box sales continue falling and markdowns are immenint.
Also don't try to tell me SWTOR didn't have competition when it launched during the holiday season. Seriously just stop.
ANet closed their shop at launch for some period of time due to high sales, that would indicate they sold way more than they anticipated.
OTOH SWTOR opened enough servers for 3-4 times of what they sold, that would indicate they sold way less than they anticipated (which also reflects on sub money and GW2 doesnt really have that problem since their financial play relies mostly on box sales).
From that PoV, number of active GW2 players is pretty irrelevant as it only influences extra profit from cash shop, while that sam number is very relevant for SWTOR since it relies on subs (and when it failed on cash shop).
And, for gosh sakes, will people learn to stop subjectively set what failure is?
If you go to Olympics and set you goal as GOLD, if you dont win it you FAILED even if you got silver or bronze.
Even if few people subjectively think silver or bronze (or just getting to the Olympics) is still great and not failure to you is irrelevant since GOAL WASNT ACHIEVED.
Goal for SWTOR was firmly set by EA. GOAL WASNT ACHIEVED. It failed.
"When I was in EA we were deeply concerned about how boring SWTOR’s gameplay was. And that was back in 2010. They finally realized the truth and decided to delay the game for another year to try to fix it. The final build was more fun by several orders of magnitude than the previous, but it was still not enough. It felt like another WoW. They failed to innovate in any sensible way. They bet everything on the franchise, the VO and Bioware’s signature narrative (which if you have played Mass Effect 3, you’ll know it’s not what it used to be anymore). Lucasarts realized the game was going to fail and forced a new deal in 2011 that would remove them from the production credits. George Lucas may be a bad moviemaker, but who can doubt he is a terrific businessman."
since some people still to this day claim EAlouse was discredited somehow, here's a revealing quote from a guy who worked there up until a few months ago.
This is the launch documentary posted on the swtor site 1 day before launch:
ANet closed their shop at launch for some period of time due to high sales, that would indicate they sold way more than they anticipated.
OTOH SWTOR opened enough servers for 3-4 times of what they sold, that would indicate they sold way less than they anticipated (which also reflects on sub money and GW2 doesnt really have that problem since their financial play relies mostly on box sales).
From that PoV, number of active GW2 players is pretty irrelevant as it only influences extra profit from cash shop, while that sam number is very relevant for SWTOR since it relies on subs (and when it failed on cash shop).
GW2 only sold 2 million copies. If it sold more Anet would have told us by now. That's really not very good for a game relying so heavily on box sales.
Retailers are now slashing the price on GW2...what exactly does that tell you?
You're trying to tell me the GW2 cash shop is a huge success and SWTOR's isn't? What evidence do you have to back that up??
Anet is in hot water right now. Without revenue from box sales and a dying population to buy from the cash shop they're looking at NO INCOME to recoup development costs, host servers and fund development for future expansions.
The author was trying to say GW2 has triumphed when it's actually heading for the MMO dumpster.
ANet closed their shop at launch for some period of time due to high sales, that would indicate they sold way more than they anticipated.
OTOH SWTOR opened enough servers for 3-4 times of what they sold, that would indicate they sold way less than they anticipated (which also reflects on sub money and GW2 doesnt really have that problem since their financial play relies mostly on box sales).
From that PoV, number of active GW2 players is pretty irrelevant as it only influences extra profit from cash shop, while that sam number is very relevant for SWTOR since it relies on subs (and when it failed on cash shop).
GW2 only sold 2 million copies. If it sold more Anet would have told us by now. That's really not very good for a game relying so heavily on box sales.
Retailers are now slashing the price on GW2...what exactly does that tell you?
You're trying to tell me the GW2 cash shop is a huge success and SWTOR's isn't? What evidence do you have to back that up??
Anet is in hot water right now. Without revenue from box sales and a dying population to buy from the cash shop they're looking at NO INCOME to recoup development costs, host servers and fund development for future expansions.
The author was trying to say GW2 has triumphed when it's actually heading for the MMO dumpster.
Let's assume everything you so vehmently state is true.
GW2 only sold 2 million plus units and is thus a failure. (Hard to wrap my head around that one, but for the sake of this experiment, let's assume that is true.)
Let's also split hairs and attempt to say with a straight face that AoC, WAR, and others were slightly worse failures then SWTOR.
OK, now we know that GW2 is a failure and SWTOR wasn't necesarily the worst failure of all time.
Now what? As in what is your point? Even is we assume your controversial assumptions are true, how does this exactly paint a rosy picture for SWTOR?
GW2 only sold 2 million copies. If it sold more Anet would have told us by now. That's really not very good for a game relying so heavily on box sales.
Retailers are now slashing the price on GW2...what exactly does that tell you?
3 months later -- GW2 is *still* in Amazons Top 10 PC games
Anet kept forums closed at launch the minimize negative post. Anet kept their AH offline to force people to buy Gems hoping people would use those gems to buy game gold. This was there hope to get that extra boost in income when they run out of box sale revenue. Also SWTOR had ques on all servers at launch they sold exactly what they thought or more....their issue as with all mmos was retention.
Besides your theorey that Anet risked all that bad press at launch to "fleece" their playerbase for a week's worth of gems, I find your statement that SWTOR sold exactly what they thought it would or more laughable.
Nevermind the shelves after shelves of the game seen at stores for months, the fact that you can still buy collector's editions of the game should tell you something.
Someone says Lucas Arts are removed from the credits. A poster notices Lucas Arts in the latest video on the site. Another says no, check the game - that's what they mean. The poster checks game credits and Lucas Arts is there. The other poster retracts and clarifies PRODUCTION credits.
Can't lie, I found that humorous.
On topic, I guess that makes Lucas Arts more knowledgeable than a good portion of people that hyped the game only to dismiss it later. For me, though, I'm not one to stir up facts about a games failure or success and spend a good portion of my time stalking the boards always joining in, mostly beating a dead horse - though it seems that's a hobby of many on these forums. If I enjoy the game, I play it until it stops holding my interest. If anything else effects your opinion of a game, that's on you I suppose.
Comments
I just do not see a future in SWTOR. According to EAs reports the subs have lost about 75% of players from launch, that is aboyut 1.5 million people who do not want to carry on playing.
SWTOR has now received merges and gone F2P, but what would have been better is them adding the content that it was supposed to have. They said they had enough story for SWTOR from KOTOR 3-9 and beyond. So where is it?
They have layed off staff, and the game has pretty much jumped straight to NGE status in 2006. At least with SWG they tried with CU and NGE, but I guess they are not doing a CU or a NGE because of the history with SWG, but the difference, for those who like each game, is SWTORs has an attention span of a few months whereas SWGs was infinite. There are plenty of things to keep you entertained in SWG, I do not see what keeps people playing SWTOR, it is just monotonous repetitive gameplay after a couple of characters, because EA/Bioware do not enhance the game at all.
The only bone I have with SWTOR is that they have given up on the game, and we are now not getting all that promised content. Also the way they handled the merges caused me to delete characters as being on the same server stuffed up my Legacy trees. SWTOR is what it is. Games like STO, WOW, TSW, Rift, LOTRO and all other MMOs are expanding and evolving all the time, with content first and mostly, with merges/F2P last
SWG and COH did shut down, and both had more positive aura about them staying active. Paragon Studios themselves were shocked by the fact NC Soft chose to shut it down. It went F2P only last year, and there were was more updates to come. SWG had several pieces of major content in the pipeline and both SOE and LA stated that SWG would still run alongside SWTOR as both games were different enough to co-exist, but then it shuts down on the day SWTOR starts early access? Too much of a coincidence to ignore the fact that SWTORs release caused SWGs shutdown - In with New, Out with the old, and leaves only one Star Wars game to go to, cutting out the cometition. If SWG had stayed active, SWTOR would be a lot deader than it is now. Convenient huh?
Add in the fact they still say the game requires the equivalent of 500K subs to break even. So unless they get this figure how can they make a profit on it?
The game has a boos nowt in population with F2P but History has proven that people do not stick with the game, and the game has not changed in any way to make people want to stay with the game, so in about 3 months time, it is quite safe to say that people will start leaving the game again.
SWG closing was far from nice, and for those loving SWTOR should just accept that, and get the most of it while it is active. If you think it is going to last for years and years and then it shuts down before 2014, then it will just hurt tonnes more.
Basically NOTHING coming from EA/Bioware is positive at all about SWTOR, unlike there was SWG and COH, but yet these 2 still shut down. I do not see the point in bothering with a game that has no future, and a company that treats players like scum. EA/Bioware are far worse than SOE
Star Trek Online - Best Free MMORPG of 2012
I always enjoy a good conspiracy theory...
You should call up Georgy boy OOps I mean Disney and ask them how much for a license, then do the math.
I think a more plausible theory... Would be that the license expired and SOE didnt feel it was profitable to renew.
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
Both actually, the licence expired in 2012, not 2011, so closed down a few months early, but it all lined up neatly with SWTORs release. LA / SOE / EA all worked together to make it all happen. Plus if SOE was 100% (without LA or EA )with the closure then they would not have given 6 months notice, but only the usual 2 or 3. The whole SWG shutdown and SWTOR launch was all planned
There is no conspiracy theories just crappy mutual business decisions
Star Trek Online - Best Free MMORPG of 2012
I can't tell if you are being serious.
You provdie links to a site we aren't supposed to link to.
The links show a B2P MMO still holding #5 behind WoW's #4.
B2P depends more on boc sales and xpac sales then anything, cash shop is bonus.
The second link shows a P2P game which took longer, and much more money to develop, only at #11 after a FTP conversion.
I know that the site you linked to isn't for directly compring one game to another, just to identify trends.
That said, even if I would use that site's analytics to compare the two games, I'd say your evidence was less then compelling for your argument.
Ahnog
Hokey religions are no replacement for a good blaster at your side.
I understand that a lot of people have hate for TOR. They want their specific type of game and they had high hopes for TOR. And for them, it wasn't even close.
I enjoy playing TOR for the story aspect. The Combat isn't terrible, but personally, it blows games such as gw2 out of the water. But that's me. I play the game very casual with a few friends.
I'll come back to TOR in a minute.
I recently started my ten day trial for cata in WoW. I had not played in over two years. I had huge feelings of nostalgia for WoW recently. Why? Because of playing a game I enjoy with my friends (TOR currently). I remembered how I used to play with SO many people in WoW and how fun it was playing with people I knew. I wanted to experience more of that feeling. So I started play WoW again.
In relation to TOR and games in general, for me, the game can only take it so far. Sure, a game needs to be fun. But I also want to play with friends. Playing with friends makes or breaks any multiplayer game for me. I'm not saying I don't go out and meet new people in game, far from it. I love meeting new people. But playing with people you have known since SWG release is always a bit more fun.
Anyways, back to the post. I think everyone who could have tried or heard of TOR has. I think 99% of them have formed their opinion, positive or negative. Yet people come here still trying to shout out how much they hate the game and how bad it is. There are very few people who openly say the game is great and shout out that feeling. And for good reason. Yet they are being told they are wrong because most others left the game and feel otherwise.
People hate on GW2, no doubt. They hate on other games. But I think with how high of esteem people hold Star Wars (and for some silly reason, the rest of SWG other then crafting), this one hurts them more. So they want to 'hurt" back. At least, that's the only reason I can come up with for peoples crusade against the game when everyone already knows how they feel about it.
LOL so now xfire can't be used in a sentence on this site? What, did they shoehorn that rule in when GW2 launched and immediately started circling the drain?
Anyway, when SWTOR was showing similar numbers to what GW2 is right now, everybody here stuck a fork in it. And now GW2 boxes are headed for the discount bin while Anet has no money coming in from subs.
The writer's contention that GW2 has succeeded where other MMOs have failed is complete garbage.
My youtube MMO gaming channel
THey did not say LA was removed from the credits as a whole. They said they were removed from the "Production Credits"., which you are conveiently overlooking. Looking at the screesnhots there posted earlier the first was "External Production credits", and various other different credits including Audio, so in the end you can not tell if the section of LA were removed from the credits or not. There could have been "Internal Production credits", or other Production credits, that got removed, which is being mentioned in the OP
Star Trek Online - Best Free MMORPG of 2012
Now that City of Heroes has closed I am not touching GW2 or any game associated with NC Soft ever again. So as far as I am concerned SWTOR > GW2 + all other NC Soft games, but I am not posting about it on the forums, as I do not give a crap about GW2 success or failure. However all other MMOs (except NC Soft ones) > SWTOR
All I would like from SWTOR atm is the ability to purchase at least up to 12 char slots, with subbers able to purchase more, then I can play SWTOR again. With it being stuck at 2 or 6 makes it unplayable
Star Trek Online - Best Free MMORPG of 2012
Yes, they shoehorned that rule in because everyone is out to get SWTOR. Why would you even care? In the old threads about the unmentionable site, you said their data was useless. In fact, you said Nielson's was a better metric.
Just to jog your memory. GW2 is at #5, three and a half months later, ToR was #7. That number 7 was before MoP, D3, TSW, Terra, or LOTRO Rohan came out which GW2 although ahead of, has to contend with.
Again you point out that GW2 is a B2P game, and has "no money coming in from subs.", in it's life cycle, 3 and a half months from launch, TOR had announced it was giving everyone a free month of play to apologize for completely screwing up ranked war zones (which are still screwed up) and to pad their quarterly sub count. Really raking it in.
You are right though. You can find GW2 on sale for $50 instead of the $60 original price.
I'm not even going to ook up the ToR price.
I'm not even a GW2 fan, but your post compelled me to comment.
Its STAR WARS Psychow this is about fucking with peoples childhood memories, hopes and desires and nothing, I mean nothing is a serious as fucking with kids hopes and desires especially seen through the +10 googles of nostalgia.
This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.
My childhood has already been fucked... I'm at the point of not giving a shit anymore and just play STO and some other games while I have an Xbox 360 and play the majority of games on that.
Also why wouldn't they know? Right now they're grubbing as much money as they can milk out of idiots.
You're not that far from the truth here.
I jus had a conversation with a co-worker the other day and we were talking about gaming and he asked me if I still play SWTOR. I told him that I joined the 2.5 million people and he asked what I meant by saying that.
I stared at him and asked whether he knew or not that the game had had a great start and a fast decline in numbers but he didn't have any clue about the initial sales, population drops or anything that is common knowledge among us here in MMORPG.com.
And we continued to discuss further and he said that he mostly PvPs and is pleased with it. He did say SWTOR is his first MMO, so he really doesn't know what colour are the pastures around the corner. I adviced him to not even go there and see how they are, because he was clearly happy with the game and wanted to play it and was having fun with it.
Sometimes ignorance is a bliss. And although we here are a bit better informed than people in general, we should probably keep our knowledge among us. Herd is happy when they don't smell the wolf.
Following with the main topic, this is a common practice for many companys that doean't want to be related with products they sponsor but know going to fail.
I worked for Games Workshop for several years and they did the same with WAR.
Also their logo is at the failed product, they never talk about the game in their main products or give support to it in any form.
Is taboo for the company and I'm pretty sure LA does the same with SWTOR as they did with SWG during 2006-2008.
Welp, I was wrong. The SWTOR server consolidations correlated with xfire's population data. It wound up being a reasonably accurate source.
And now Warcraft leads GW2 by more than a margin of 2 to 1 and the gap is widening every week as GW2's playerbase evaporates.
Anet has no incentives to fall back on whatsoever as box sales continue falling and markdowns are immenint.
Also don't try to tell me SWTOR didn't have competition when it launched during the holiday season. Seriously just stop.
My youtube MMO gaming channel
Anet has incentive to keep their gaming experience enjoyable so they can sell new xpacs. That said, their payment model does not depend on monthly subscription revenue.
I'm really not sure why you are going on about GW2 being a huge failure, because even if it was (which it wasn't) what does that have to do with SWTOR exactly. (OP quted the article for the bit about the row between LA+EA with BW)
As to SWTOR facing stiff competioon in its genre when released, I would have to say not som much. EA specificallly chose that date to both capitalize on Holiday sales and avoid direct competition with upcoming titles. THat is why the game was rushed out of closed Beta, with the sudden apperance of the Fleets as social hubs, and the removal of chat bubbles, match to chest, high rez textures, etc. and why the game desperatley tried to play catch up with UI custom ization and Groupfinder.
(No I'm not gong to cite common knowledge, if someone else wants to feel free.)
ANet closed their shop at launch for some period of time due to high sales, that would indicate they sold way more than they anticipated.
OTOH SWTOR opened enough servers for 3-4 times of what they sold, that would indicate they sold way less than they anticipated (which also reflects on sub money and GW2 doesnt really have that problem since their financial play relies mostly on box sales).
From that PoV, number of active GW2 players is pretty irrelevant as it only influences extra profit from cash shop, while that sam number is very relevant for SWTOR since it relies on subs (and when it failed on cash shop).
And, for gosh sakes, will people learn to stop subjectively set what failure is?
If you go to Olympics and set you goal as GOLD, if you dont win it you FAILED even if you got silver or bronze.
Even if few people subjectively think silver or bronze (or just getting to the Olympics) is still great and not failure to you is irrelevant since GOAL WASNT ACHIEVED.
Goal for SWTOR was firmly set by EA. GOAL WASNT ACHIEVED. It failed.
This is the launch documentary posted on the swtor site 1 day before launch:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TP5micfy28g&feature=player_embedded
Count the lucasarts guys.
GW2 only sold 2 million copies. If it sold more Anet would have told us by now. That's really not very good for a game relying so heavily on box sales.
Retailers are now slashing the price on GW2...what exactly does that tell you?
You're trying to tell me the GW2 cash shop is a huge success and SWTOR's isn't? What evidence do you have to back that up??
Anet is in hot water right now. Without revenue from box sales and a dying population to buy from the cash shop they're looking at NO INCOME to recoup development costs, host servers and fund development for future expansions.
The author was trying to say GW2 has triumphed when it's actually heading for the MMO dumpster.
My youtube MMO gaming channel
Let's assume everything you so vehmently state is true.
GW2 only sold 2 million plus units and is thus a failure. (Hard to wrap my head around that one, but for the sake of this experiment, let's assume that is true.)
Let's also split hairs and attempt to say with a straight face that AoC, WAR, and others were slightly worse failures then SWTOR.
OK, now we know that GW2 is a failure and SWTOR wasn't necesarily the worst failure of all time.
Now what? As in what is your point? Even is we assume your controversial assumptions are true, how does this exactly paint a rosy picture for SWTOR?
3 months later -- GW2 is *still* in Amazons Top 10 PC games
http://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-Video-Games-PC-compatible/zgbs/videogames/4924894011
EQ2 fan sites
Besides your theorey that Anet risked all that bad press at launch to "fleece" their playerbase for a week's worth of gems, I find your statement that SWTOR sold exactly what they thought it would or more laughable.
Nevermind the shelves after shelves of the game seen at stores for months, the fact that you can still buy collector's editions of the game should tell you something.
Someone says Lucas Arts are removed from the credits. A poster notices Lucas Arts in the latest video on the site. Another says no, check the game - that's what they mean. The poster checks game credits and Lucas Arts is there. The other poster retracts and clarifies PRODUCTION credits.
Can't lie, I found that humorous.
On topic, I guess that makes Lucas Arts more knowledgeable than a good portion of people that hyped the game only to dismiss it later. For me, though, I'm not one to stir up facts about a games failure or success and spend a good portion of my time stalking the boards always joining in, mostly beating a dead horse - though it seems that's a hobby of many on these forums. If I enjoy the game, I play it until it stops holding my interest. If anything else effects your opinion of a game, that's on you I suppose.