I am tempted because of the Raiding which look similar to EQ and EQ2
But the leveling is just awful...........it feels like WAR rather than WOW.
Boring and dull.
If I could create a maxed out character I would subscribe even without the Trial, lots of people who played EQ say that the Raids are cool, so I would definetly play it if I didn't have to go through 59 level of boredom before I can play the best part.
To everyone complaining that leveling is grindy...you do relize that there are multiple things to do to level besides questiong/carnages right? You don't have to do them and in most cases probably aren't the fastest way to level. There are Dungeons/IAs/Warfronts/Rifts/Hunt Rifts etc etc find something you like and do them. This is not WoW, you have A LOT of things you can do to level besides questing. So do them. Or continue complaining, whatevs, I'll continue to enjoy my game with hundreds of thousands of other people.
ok you got me there lol..but an apalling invention.not sure if this is true,perhaps someone could clarify ..but have they just started instanced missions like lotro's skirmishes..if it is true it just says everything about blizz in a nutshell.i maybe wrong and apologise if i am..not trying to knock the game but there is nothing really that good about WOW.
WoW was built off a very strong world with interesting races and well developed classes. It has extremely fluid combat as well and just feels extremely responsive (as opposed to LOTRO, which feels clunky somehow). It did the 'little things' far better than games like Rift did, but yes, the gameplay has grown a little stale over the years. Still fun, but kind of been there done that (and it doesnt help that playing games like lotro, rift and swtor is extremely similar to playing wow)
As for the instanced missions, its 3 man group content thats generally more objective based than dungeons. Closer to a cross between skirmish and dungeon.
Originally posted by TheRookie This is not WoW, you have A LOT of things you can do to level besides questing.
1. again, you are bashing a game to try to make your game look better. You can quest/grind/dungeon/pvp/gather/explore/etc in WoW too. Yeah, Rift certainly has more options but to act like WoW doesnt have multiple options too is idiotic.
2. If you want to bring WoW into it, WoW does a better job of making their content engaing than Rift. Carnage quests are just kill x mob quests. Trion thought 'hey, people hate these type of qests so maybe we will make em better by not having to run back and forth to the quest giver!' But that was poor thinking because carnage quests arent remotely engaging, not having any context to them makes them feel even more mindless than gather 20 rat testicle quests.
Originally posted by Gorwe Let's see how good you are at this...
Riddle me this little bit: What if I dislike playing clones/undead people? How in the name of Asuryan should I get immersed?
Easy: You choose to be immersed.
If you get immersed sitting at a computer playing a non-cloned game, you can choose to be immersed in a cloned game. See, it's amazing how people have the abiltiy to feel immersed knowing they are on a computer (that's a hard thing to do) but find it difficult to get immersed over something trivial like cloned game. It's almost as if the excuse of immersion is not factual.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
Originally posted by Gorwe Let's see how good you are at this...
Riddle me this little bit: What if I dislike playing clones/undead people? How in the name of Asuryan should I get immersed?
Easy: You choose to be immersed.
If you get immersed sitting at a computer playing a non-cloned game, you can choose to be immersed in a cloned game. See, it's amazing how people have the abiltiy to feel immersed knowing they are on a computer (that's a hard thing to do) but find it difficult to get immersed over something trivial like cloned game. It's almost as if the excuse of immersion is not factual.
Gorwe is talking about the chracters being clones / undead. Its part of the storyline of Rift. Not calling the game a clone, although it is.
Regarding the earlier comments about WoW and Rift difficulty, they are both on par from my past experience. Both could be played easily with macros and addons. Sure you could play without them for pseudo-difficulty, but its still the same static rotation. I like games where skill choice and split second decisions actually matter, where the skills you use are situational, not pressing the same rotation ad nauseum.
Originally posted by Gorwe Let's see how good you are at this...
Riddle me this little bit: What if I dislike playing clones/undead people? How in the name of Asuryan should I get immersed?
Easy: You choose to be immersed.
If you get immersed sitting at a computer playing a non-cloned game, you can choose to be immersed in a cloned game. See, it's amazing how people have the abiltiy to feel immersed knowing they are on a computer (that's a hard thing to do) but find it difficult to get immersed over something trivial like cloned game. It's almost as if the excuse of immersion is not factual.
If you can't make a connection to the game world its difficult to be immersed.
If you go through past threads here you will find Rift's world often described as 'generic' or 'soulless'. Now, not everyone feels this way but it is a very common complaint. I think it starts with the uninspired races. Also, Trion is more interested with making a game than a world. Thats a negative to some but a big positive to others. The presentation of quest dialog is also poor. WoW says more in less words. EQ2 is even more wordy, but at least it breaks it up with your character having a conversation. Rift just presents you with a wall of text and there is little motivation in the writing style to not go TLDR. They should have hired the freelance guy to write their quest text, not an MMORPG.com column.
I mentioned earlier WoW got the 'little things' right, thats exactly what this sort of thing is. Things that may not seem like a big deal, but impact the game tremendously- for some people. I realize there are a ton of people that dont give a damn about lore or immersion, they just want to run dungeons and rifts and warfronts and raids. However, there are tons of people that don't even realize that the reason a game doesnt 'click' with them is because of this sort of thing. My theory is this is the main reason why for a game as seemingly well made as Rift struggles with retention. I think game developers severely underestimate how important the little things are.
In most cases its far from a static rotation, more of a piriority system. And rarely do you get a chance to just sit there and perform your 'rotation' unimpeded.
In most cases its far from a static rotation, more of a piriority system. And rarely do you get a chance to just sit there and perform your 'rotation' unimpeded.
Indeed, it is much more of a priority system.
... And that's where the macros come in. I'm presently without sufficient knowledge or information to form a belief as to the truth of the averment that such macros are inefficient or uncommon at higher levels, but that's completely irrelevant to a person who doesn't already have a max-level character. People looking for a new PVE game don't typically already have capped out characters waiting on a server for them.
For those people--people in a position to evaluate the game from the bottom up or from somewhere on the way--the macroing is a huge turnoff. It's the single most significant contributing factor to my decision not to re-subscribe to this game with the release of the expansion. I just don't want to have to chew through twenty levels with two key presses. I'll gladly grant that the soul system is a cataclysmic improvement over WOW's old talent system and a significant innovation in character customization in its own right, but that's not enough to overcome the inescapable fact that, for most players, the most efficient way to level a character from level 1 is to macro as much as you can into as few buttons as possible and spam them. Hell, you're halfway to designing a bot for the game without knowing a lick of programming, and all you had to do was cut and paste.
In most cases its far from a static rotation, more of a piriority system. And rarely do you get a chance to just sit there and perform your 'rotation' unimpeded.
Indeed, it is much more of a priority system.
... And that's where the macros come in. I'm presently without sufficient knowledge or information to form a belief as to the truth of the averment that such macros are inefficient or uncommon at higher levels, but that's completely irrelevant to a person who doesn't already have a max-level character. People looking for a new PVE game don't typically already have capped out characters waiting on a server for them.
For those people--people in a position to evaluate the game from the bottom up or from somewhere on the way--the macroing is a huge turnoff. It's the single most significant contributing factor to my decision not to re-subscribe to this game with the release of the expansion. I just don't want to have to chew through twenty levels with two key presses. I'll gladly grant that the soul system is a cataclysmic improvement over WOW's old talent system and a significant innovation in character customization in its own right, but that's not enough to overcome the inescapable fact that, for most players, the most efficient way to level a character from level 1 is to macro as much as you can into as few buttons as possible and spam them. Hell, you're halfway to designing a bot for the game without knowing a lick of programming, and all you had to do was cut and paste.
I honestly believe the macro issue is a bit overblown. Before the recent overhaul of souls in 1.11, it was certainly true that you could macro with relative ease. However, part of the revamp seems to have been dedicated to reducing the effectiveness of macros, with many abilities changed to make them far less suitable for it. Most of my experience has been playing a mage and the changes basically broke 2/3rds of the macros I had been using. I should note also that I'm not a big fan of them, either, so I typically gravitate to builds that require a bit of thinking on how to play. Also, if macros make the game boring, there's no requirement that they be used. I've never used any for my dot-heavy warlock build (even if they were available to me) and I've never had any content that I couldn't be effective in tackling.
So a lot of people are not enjoying WoW right now with the world full of dailies. Many are wondeirng about what Rift has to offer. I will offer this advice with Rift because about a dozen of my friends have come over and tried it most are staying. I have heard what bugs them about Rift after only 15 or 20 minutes of game play.
First the soul system many of them are lost on. They are so use to WoWs talents new and old that it confuses them. Simple Solution use a cookie cutter builld and do as it tells you to do with your talent points. Dont worry about being different until you learn your class and the different souls.
Second the looks can be odd, it took me 3 to 4 days back in Dec 2004 to get use to WoW's looks coming from SWG and FFXI. I didnt like them at first and needed until level 18 to really get use to it. After several hours of playing over a few days I seen other things that the world had to offer in the way of content and stuck around.
Not saying everyone will love the game however just given advice on being a little open minded about the game. Also try an instance you might like it.
I don't see how the soul system could confuse anyone. The classes and combat in Rift are the dullest I have ever had the misfortune to experience in a game. Get a bunch of generic skills and shove them in a supermacro. So much fun, not.
Edit: I wouldnt be surprised if this was not so subtle Rift marketing. They have been pretty desperate with their 'please come back and play' emails lately.
THIS ^
Rift is a fantastic game that coulda-shoulda been. Then they dumb down things like talents. My "new" rogue uses 3 buttons for 25+ skills. My "new" Warrior uses 2 macroes (builder.. finisher) for EVERY skill.
Rift is training wheels in the MMO world, the only reason they can keep charging money. So many people are patting themselves on their own back for finishing end game in Rift, when in reality, WoW was too hard so they came to Rift.
-Dub-C-
what shocks me to this day, is that many people are calling WoW hard or difficult compared to newer releases ... and I do not disagree.. its just amazing how far the MMO genre has gone to cater to the casual.
I've tried oh so hard to get into Rift over the last year and a half or so, and despite my best efforts, I just prefer World of Warcraft.
I find Rift to be a very solid, feature-rich game, but it just isn't my cup of tea. I hate the game engine and how low-budget everything feels in comparison to WoW or other triple AAA MMORPGs even with all of Rift's additional features. I find the quests boring, and the quests in the new expansion are a step down from the original game with their increased emphasis on mob grinding and directionless delivery. I'm not a fan of the game world itself. It's far too generic with mob designs that look like something out of a Korean F2P MMO. Lastly, I'm just not a fan of the soul system. In an age where most MMORPGs are going for a more streamlined skill system, Trion has gone the opposite route giving players even more totally useless skills and abilities to filter through when building their characters. It also seemed like every time I would return to the game, one or more of my previous builds were wiped, forcing me to scour the forums for the current "best build" before I could even begin to get into enjoying the game.
So a lot of people are not enjoying WoW right now with the world full of dailies. Many are wondeirng about what Rift has to offer. I will offer this advice with Rift because about a dozen of my friends have come over and tried it most are staying. I have heard what bugs them about Rift after only 15 or 20 minutes of game play.
First the soul system many of them are lost on. They are so use to WoWs talents new and old that it confuses them. Simple Solution use a cookie cutter builld and do as it tells you to do with your talent points. Dont worry about being different until you learn your class and the different souls.
Second the looks can be odd, it took me 3 to 4 days back in Dec 2004 to get use to WoW's looks coming from SWG and FFXI. I didnt like them at first and needed until level 18 to really get use to it. After several hours of playing over a few days I seen other things that the world had to offer in the way of content and stuck around.
Not saying everyone will love the game however just given advice on being a little open minded about the game. Also try an instance you might like it.
I don't see how the soul system could confuse anyone. The classes and combat in Rift are the dullest I have ever had the misfortune to experience in a game. Get a bunch of generic skills and shove them in a supermacro. So much fun, not.
Edit: I wouldnt be surprised if this was not so subtle Rift marketing. They have been pretty desperate with their 'please come back and play' emails lately.
THIS ^
Rift is a fantastic game that coulda-shoulda been. Then they dumb down things like talents. My "new" rogue uses 3 buttons for 25+ skills. My "new" Warrior uses 2 macroes (builder.. finisher) for EVERY skill.
Rift is training wheels in the MMO world, the only reason they can keep charging money. So many people are patting themselves on their own back for finishing end game in Rift, when in reality, WoW was too hard so they came to Rift.
-Dub-C-
what shocks me to this day, is that many people are calling WoW hard or difficult compared to newer releases ... and I do not disagree.. its just amazing how far the MMO genre has gone to cater to the casual.
What shocks me to this day, is that many people calling WoW easy never stepped one foot in a Hard Mode and base their entire idea of WoW difficulty on raid finder and normal questing and dungeons. Its amazing how far the MMO genre has gone to cater to the trolls and the ignorant.
I've tried oh so hard to get into Rift over the last year and a half or so, and despite my best efforts, I just prefer World of Warcraft.
I find Rift to be a very solid, feature-rich game, but it just isn't my cup of tea. I hate the game engine and how low-budget everything feels in comparison to WoW or other triple AAA MMORPGs even with all of Rift's additional features. I find the quests boring, and the quests in the new expansion are a step down from the original game with their increased emphasis on mob grinding and directionless delivery. I'm not a fan of the game world itself. It's far too generic with mob designs that look like something out of a Korean F2P MMO. Lastly, I'm just not a fan of the soul system. In an age where most MMORPGs are going for a more streamlined skill system, Trion has gone the opposite route giving players even more totally useless skills and abilities to filter through when building their characters. It also seemed like every time I would return to the game, one or more of my previous builds were wiped, forcing me to scour the forums for the current "best build" before I could even begin to get into enjoying the game.
That is pretty much my issue with Rift, I like some parts of the game but to me the world, lore and combat are all just so generic and uninteresting. I really want to play the game and see what the endgame has to offer but I just can't stand the leveling in the game and I would literally have to force myself through it. I also couldnt get into the the soul system, while expansive and open to making whatever build you like sounds cool, it also means that it is stock full of cloned skills and useless abilities that just needlessly complicate the whole system. Overall I think the Storm Legion expansion sounds great but there is just no way I could make it that far to actually try it.
The problem is, Rift is bascally wow in a new skin, So its like playing the same game with just better graphics. I tried the game and well, found it quite boring due to how it plays.
Being a pessimist is a win-win pattern of thinking. If you're a pessimist (I'll admit that I am!) you're either:
A. Proven right (if something bad happens)
or
B. Pleasantly surprised (if something good happens)
Comments
I am tempted because of the Raiding which look similar to EQ and EQ2
But the leveling is just awful...........it feels like WAR rather than WOW.
Boring and dull.
If I could create a maxed out character I would subscribe even without the Trial, lots of people who played EQ say that the Raids are cool, so I would definetly play it if I didn't have to go through 59 level of boredom before I can play the best part.Along with EQ2, I always have fun when I play Rift and that's all that matters to me.
I'll leave the nitpicking of gameplay details to the elitist snobs who are never happy with any game.
WoW was built off a very strong world with interesting races and well developed classes. It has extremely fluid combat as well and just feels extremely responsive (as opposed to LOTRO, which feels clunky somehow). It did the 'little things' far better than games like Rift did, but yes, the gameplay has grown a little stale over the years. Still fun, but kind of been there done that (and it doesnt help that playing games like lotro, rift and swtor is extremely similar to playing wow)
As for the instanced missions, its 3 man group content thats generally more objective based than dungeons. Closer to a cross between skirmish and dungeon.
1. again, you are bashing a game to try to make your game look better. You can quest/grind/dungeon/pvp/gather/explore/etc in WoW too. Yeah, Rift certainly has more options but to act like WoW doesnt have multiple options too is idiotic.
2. If you want to bring WoW into it, WoW does a better job of making their content engaing than Rift. Carnage quests are just kill x mob quests. Trion thought 'hey, people hate these type of qests so maybe we will make em better by not having to run back and forth to the quest giver!' But that was poor thinking because carnage quests arent remotely engaging, not having any context to them makes them feel even more mindless than gather 20 rat testicle quests.
Easy: You choose to be immersed.
If you get immersed sitting at a computer playing a non-cloned game, you can choose to be immersed in a cloned game. See, it's amazing how people have the abiltiy to feel immersed knowing they are on a computer (that's a hard thing to do) but find it difficult to get immersed over something trivial like cloned game. It's almost as if the excuse of immersion is not factual.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
Gorwe is talking about the chracters being clones / undead. Its part of the storyline of Rift. Not calling the game a clone, although it is.
Regarding the earlier comments about WoW and Rift difficulty, they are both on par from my past experience. Both could be played easily with macros and addons. Sure you could play without them for pseudo-difficulty, but its still the same static rotation. I like games where skill choice and split second decisions actually matter, where the skills you use are situational, not pressing the same rotation ad nauseum.
If you can't make a connection to the game world its difficult to be immersed.
If you go through past threads here you will find Rift's world often described as 'generic' or 'soulless'. Now, not everyone feels this way but it is a very common complaint. I think it starts with the uninspired races. Also, Trion is more interested with making a game than a world. Thats a negative to some but a big positive to others. The presentation of quest dialog is also poor. WoW says more in less words. EQ2 is even more wordy, but at least it breaks it up with your character having a conversation. Rift just presents you with a wall of text and there is little motivation in the writing style to not go TLDR. They should have hired the freelance guy to write their quest text, not an MMORPG.com column.
I mentioned earlier WoW got the 'little things' right, thats exactly what this sort of thing is. Things that may not seem like a big deal, but impact the game tremendously- for some people. I realize there are a ton of people that dont give a damn about lore or immersion, they just want to run dungeons and rifts and warfronts and raids. However, there are tons of people that don't even realize that the reason a game doesnt 'click' with them is because of this sort of thing. My theory is this is the main reason why for a game as seemingly well made as Rift struggles with retention. I think game developers severely underestimate how important the little things are.
In most cases its far from a static rotation, more of a piriority system. And rarely do you get a chance to just sit there and perform your 'rotation' unimpeded.
Indeed, it is much more of a priority system.
... And that's where the macros come in. I'm presently without sufficient knowledge or information to form a belief as to the truth of the averment that such macros are inefficient or uncommon at higher levels, but that's completely irrelevant to a person who doesn't already have a max-level character. People looking for a new PVE game don't typically already have capped out characters waiting on a server for them.
For those people--people in a position to evaluate the game from the bottom up or from somewhere on the way--the macroing is a huge turnoff. It's the single most significant contributing factor to my decision not to re-subscribe to this game with the release of the expansion. I just don't want to have to chew through twenty levels with two key presses. I'll gladly grant that the soul system is a cataclysmic improvement over WOW's old talent system and a significant innovation in character customization in its own right, but that's not enough to overcome the inescapable fact that, for most players, the most efficient way to level a character from level 1 is to macro as much as you can into as few buttons as possible and spam them. Hell, you're halfway to designing a bot for the game without knowing a lick of programming, and all you had to do was cut and paste.
Peace and safety.
I honestly believe the macro issue is a bit overblown. Before the recent overhaul of souls in 1.11, it was certainly true that you could macro with relative ease. However, part of the revamp seems to have been dedicated to reducing the effectiveness of macros, with many abilities changed to make them far less suitable for it. Most of my experience has been playing a mage and the changes basically broke 2/3rds of the macros I had been using. I should note also that I'm not a big fan of them, either, so I typically gravitate to builds that require a bit of thinking on how to play. Also, if macros make the game boring, there's no requirement that they be used. I've never used any for my dot-heavy warlock build (even if they were available to me) and I've never had any content that I couldn't be effective in tackling.
what shocks me to this day, is that many people are calling WoW hard or difficult compared to newer releases ... and I do not disagree.. its just amazing how far the MMO genre has gone to cater to the casual.
I've tried oh so hard to get into Rift over the last year and a half or so, and despite my best efforts, I just prefer World of Warcraft.
I find Rift to be a very solid, feature-rich game, but it just isn't my cup of tea. I hate the game engine and how low-budget everything feels in comparison to WoW or other triple AAA MMORPGs even with all of Rift's additional features. I find the quests boring, and the quests in the new expansion are a step down from the original game with their increased emphasis on mob grinding and directionless delivery. I'm not a fan of the game world itself. It's far too generic with mob designs that look like something out of a Korean F2P MMO. Lastly, I'm just not a fan of the soul system. In an age where most MMORPGs are going for a more streamlined skill system, Trion has gone the opposite route giving players even more totally useless skills and abilities to filter through when building their characters. It also seemed like every time I would return to the game, one or more of my previous builds were wiped, forcing me to scour the forums for the current "best build" before I could even begin to get into enjoying the game.
What shocks me to this day, is that many people calling WoW easy never stepped one foot in a Hard Mode and base their entire idea of WoW difficulty on raid finder and normal questing and dungeons. Its amazing how far the MMO genre has gone to cater to the trolls and the ignorant.
HEAVEN OR HELL
Duel 1
Lets ROCK!
That is pretty much my issue with Rift, I like some parts of the game but to me the world, lore and combat are all just so generic and uninteresting. I really want to play the game and see what the endgame has to offer but I just can't stand the leveling in the game and I would literally have to force myself through it. I also couldnt get into the the soul system, while expansive and open to making whatever build you like sounds cool, it also means that it is stock full of cloned skills and useless abilities that just needlessly complicate the whole system. Overall I think the Storm Legion expansion sounds great but there is just no way I could make it that far to actually try it.
HEAVEN OR HELL
Duel 1
Lets ROCK!
Being a pessimist is a win-win pattern of thinking. If you're a pessimist (I'll admit that I am!) you're either:
A. Proven right (if something bad happens)
or
B. Pleasantly surprised (if something good happens)
Either way, you can't lose! Try it out sometime!