Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Fuzzy Avatars Solved! Please re-upload your avatar if it was fuzzy!

The 'Group Play vs Solo Play in an MMO' Thread

1656668707186

Comments

  • Naz-TNaz-T Ajax, ONPosts: 2Member

    The whole point of an MMO is to interact with other people (which includes grouping). The reason grouping should be an important aspect of every MMO is because it expands the community, while bringing everyone closer together at the same time. Think of guild wars without guilds.. Pretty fucking dull if you ask me. While I have nothing against solo play; as I thoroughly enjoy soloing, due to the fact that I can AFK as I please, play at my own pace, etc. There should be many considerations taken into account when scaling group play vs solo play.

     

    If the most efficient ways to gear up or farm in a game are through solo play, it will discourage players from participating in group play (as we've seen in Diablo 3). Even if solo play is on "par" with group play in terms of farming, players who opt to play in groups have to deal with conflicts in scheduling and finding compitent players; which ends up favoring solo play again.

     

    On the other hand, group play is a very important aspect of every mmo as it can be much more dynamic than solo play (for example WoW raid bosses). Group play requires perks as long as the content is more challenging than solo play (BECAUSE IT REQUIRES US TO BE HUMAN). As much as we would like to deny the fact that bots exist in OUR game, we can not (bots are in EVERY game), this is another BIG reason game developers should favor group play. If a group of players can not out farm a bot, then group play will be discouraged. Those players will be pretty much FORCED to solo play if they want to farm "efficiently," but since they aren't bots and can't farm 24/7 we still have absolutely no encouragement to play legit. This is partially the reason we see SO MANY bots in games where group play is not encouraged. Take a look at Runescape & D3, both games actually discourage group play on many occasions and as a result, they are PLAGUED with bots. Not only are they abundant, but they actually out do their human counterparts.

     

    If you seriously prefer solo > group play, these are just some of the considerations to take into account before complaining that group play has unfair advantages. There are PLENTY of single player RPGs to tackle before considering an MMO to be your single player time sink

     

    TLDR; if you dislike grouping - stay the fuck away from MMOs, it's that simple.

  • RandomDownRandomDown Louisville, KYPosts: 145Member

    All you are talking about is loot. So many of the "MMOs should only allow for grouping" crowd try to use community as their argument and how allowing for solo play defeats that. However, all you talk about is the most efficient way to get phat lewtz, so then whats the point of playing MMOs to get gear since you can get gear much more efficiently in a single player game anyways?

     

    TLDR: Different people have different play styles, learn to deal with that.

  • Naz-TNaz-T Ajax, ONPosts: 2Member
    Originally posted by RandomDown

    All you are talking about is loot. So many of the "MMOs should only allow for grouping" crowd try to use community as their argument and how allowing for solo play defeats that. However, all you talk about is the most efficient way to get phat lewtz, so then whats the point of playing MMOs to get gear since you can get gear much more efficiently in a single player game anyways?

     

    TLDR: Different people have different play styles, learn to deal with that.

    Loot is not the only consideration I talked about. If you read and understood my argument entirely, you would notice that I talked about how group play allows for more DYNAMIC boss fights. Why the fuck would an MMO who caters from thousands to millions of players, create content that they specifically want you to beat SOLO. It's not possible to have a soloable boss that is as dynamic as a boss that requires a group. You can solo as much as you want, but the hardest content is always going to be in group play.

     

    While single player feats can exist in MMOs, these games weren't made for us NOT to group.

     

    If you are strictly looking for single player challenges, then play single player games, that's what they were made for. You can also attempt to solo group content, but it's not always possible to do. I'm not knocking solo play, I'm just saying that group play HAS to be more favorable.

  • UsualSuspectUsualSuspect CardiffPosts: 1,243Member
    Originally posted by Cephus404

    Grouping, especially forced grouping, is wholly out of fashion at the moment.  If you want it back, prove to developers that a significant portion of the total community not only want it, but would pay to get it.

    And I have to do that, why, exactly? You're under the rather strange idea that developers only create what people want to have. If that were true we'd still be playing Space Invaders XXXVI because they would have never known Pacman was a good idea. People, after all, were happy playing Space Invaders so why create anything else?

    If developers just continue to make the same games year in year out, then nothing is going to ever change. You can spout your crap about market research and all the rest, but at the end of the day, they're an entertainment industry, they need to create something that will entertain and creating the same game under a different name is just repetition. Entertainment and repetition are not good bedfellows.

  • OnomasOnomas Rock Hill, SCPosts: 1,128Member Uncommon

    Group play with a hint of solo ability. MMO's are about interacting and making friends. Not playing it like a console game you can go from begining to end with ease. People forgot what its means to work together, to work for something, and to make a difference. Its just zooooom zoooom to the end and whine on the forums the game sucks and has no content.

    Yeah grouping is a pain sometimes, i admit that. But sure beats the alternative.

  • GazthSonikaGazthSonika Toronto, ONPosts: 20Member

    I like both and I think that solo and teamplay are important in an MMO.  Obviously you might be fine if you go fight "a lone wolf_0" in the wilderness, but if you're going up against "a hill giant" and you're not a seasoned player then you should group.  Nothing wrong with that.  What I'd like to see though is some variety in group missions.  Why are there no missions to infiltrate a facility through stealth and wit?  Actually one game did have that, it was called 7 Million and it had by far the most interesting missions that I have ever played, it's just too bad that the company who owned it lacked any sense of vision and the game fell into nothingness. 

    The missions were all about infiltrating builings and bypassing security guards, locks and cameras.  You and your buddies had to solve puzzles in 2 minutes or you'd get thrown out of the building and have to start over again.  At the same time someone had to keep an eye out on the guard, or guards.  Now that was some seriously fun teamwork! 

    I miss that game.

     

    GS

  • OrtwigOrtwig Cambridge, MAPosts: 1,159Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by GazthSonika

    I like both and I think that solo and teamplay are important in an MMO.  Obviously you might be fine if you go fight "a lone wolf_0" in the wilderness, but if you're going up against "a hill giant" and you're not a seasoned player then you should group.  Nothing wrong with that.  What I'd like to see though is some variety in group missions.  Why are there no missions to infiltrate a facility through stealth and wit?  Actually one game did have that, it was called 7 Million and it had by far the most interesting missions that I have ever played, it's just too bad that the company who owned it lacked any sense of vision and the game fell into nothingness. 

    The missions were all about infiltrating builings and bypassing security guards, locks and cameras.  You and your buddies had to solve puzzles in 2 minutes or you'd get thrown out of the building and have to start over again.  At the same time someone had to keep an eye out on the guard, or guards.  Now that was some seriously fun teamwork! 

    I miss that game.

     

    GS

    Check out The Secret World.

  • simpliussimplius nakskovPosts: 1,042Member Uncommon

    numbers should give a clue:

    the right way: pandaland,,make most of the game solo friendly

    and i know SWTOR is suffering from that effect too,,how fun is it to stand around, waiting for a group for a FP/heroic?

    yes, i know i did that in wow too, but wow players was WAY more social back then,,now most people dont even answer

    in group channels,,some of them dont answer at all,,not even a simple "hello"

    as for casual groups,,well prolly see it going the same way as GW2,,at least that helps a little

  • BeartosserBeartosser Toronto, ONPosts: 92Member

    The fact that devs still haven't designed an MMO for soloers is mind boggling. They're completely ignoring what is the largest segment of their potential customer base on a continual basis.

    No solo MMO's, no solo servers within existing MMO's, zero useful endgame gear for solo players in existing MMO's, superior performance for groupers vs soloable mobs in existing MMO's, solo players completely or partially locked out of end game content in existing MMO's.

    There's millions of potential customers out there who would play MMO's, but the devs have basically said "we don't want your business".

    The real irony for the group/raid oriented players who constantly complain on boards like this about how their game has been dumbed down, is if they'd gotten behind the idea of seperate solo MMO's or servers long ago, they would have had a much more enjoyable experience playing MMO's now, because the games or servers they play on would have been tailored more specifically towards their needs, instead of the diversified mush they're being fed now. 

  • CorvusCoraxCorvusCorax stockholmPosts: 38Member
    Originally posted by Beartosser

    The fact that devs still haven't designed an MMO for soloers is mind boggling. They're completely ignoring what is the largest segment of their potential customer base on a continual basis.

    No solo MMO's, no solo servers within existing MMO's, zero useful endgame gear for solo players in existing MMO's, superior performance for groupers vs soloable mobs in existing MMO's, solo players completely or partially locked out of end game content in existing MMO's.

    There's millions of potential customers out there who would play MMO's, but the devs have basically said "we don't want your business".

    The real irony for the group/raid oriented players who constantly complain on boards like this about how their game has been dumbed down, is if they'd gotten behind the idea of seperate solo MMO's or servers long ago, they would have had a much more enjoyable experience playing MMO's now, because the games or servers they play on would have been tailored more specifically towards their needs, instead of the diversified mush they're being fed now. 

    Might just be that the solo-only crowd is not big enough to warrant the massive funding needed to create a AAA MMO just for them. Could also be that MMO's are multiplayer games and soloing has nothing to do with multiplayer gameplay whatsoever. It is true that a lot of people who play MMO's spend a lot of that time soloing, but the amount of people who wants to do nothing else but soloing is most likely very small.

    The thing I find the most mindboggling is that people who are looking for the perfect singleplayer game experience are looking for it in a genre based on multiplayer instead of going to the forums of the next big singleplayer game in the making and discuss such things over there.

    Different servers is not a feasable sollution. Creating a AAA MMO requires an insane amount funds, creating both a AAA MMO and a AAA singleplayer game is just not a logical request. Resources are not infinite, the most probable thing to happen is a low quality game experience for everyone.

     

    image
  • DzoneDzone bowling green, KYPosts: 351Member Uncommon

    I believe if thers such a high demand for soloing, Developers should be making more single player rpg's for them. Then maybe they would play those more often and not bother with mmorpg's. Plus nowadays since consoles went online, developers have the meens to add more content to single player games, just like mmo's developers have. Thus expanding the longtevity of those games.

     

    To me MMORPG's should be made for grouping and community building, and Single  player RPG's made for ppl that want to solo.

     

    I have no clue why developers are trying to bend and twist the 2 together, I really miss my ffxi days before abbysea :(

     

    Soloing in MMO's should just be strickly for farming and gathering crafting meterials, and fishing, everything else should have the playerbase work together as a team.

     

    Just my 2 cents.

  • VengeSunsoarVengeSunsoar Posts: 5,314Member Uncommon

    1.  Soloer's and groupers are not two distinct bodies.  Yes a minority from each group will be extremists, the majority will do both activities, so the game needs to have ways to support both.

    2.  You cannot ask for a virtual world on one hand and ignore soloers, or groupers on the other.  The real world, that a virtual world is based on, doesn't need to have other people for all activities, and some activities require lots of other people.  So if you ask for a virtual world you are also asking for solo activity.  If you think it doesn't, you are lying to yourself.

    Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  • UsualSuspectUsualSuspect CardiffPosts: 1,243Member
    Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

    2.  You cannot ask for a virtual world on one hand and ignore soloers, or groupers on the other.  The real world, that a virtual world is based on, doesn't need to have other people for all activities, and some activities require lots of other people.  So if you ask for a virtual world you are also asking for solo activity.  If you think it doesn't, you are lying to yourself.

    Yeah, because the real world also has elves, magic and dragons, so it makes sense that everything should be the same.. image image

  • ZoltosZoltos Brøndby StrandPosts: 55Member Uncommon

    Massive "Single"player Oline Roleplaying Game?? LOL

     

    MMORPG´s should have plenty of both styles. Nuff said :)

    Games Played: Anarchy Online,Star Wars Galaxies,WOW,Eve,Darkfall,Vanguard, Fallen Earth,SWTOR,GW2,Tera,ESO,Wildstar & Archeage.
    Now playing: Archeage & WOW
    Games looking forward to: Albion Online!

  • KingJigglyKingJiggly Simpsonville, SCPosts: 777Member

    I personally enjoy the Guild Wars 2 way of grouping. I all the mmos I have played, I have rarely if ever joined a tight knit group, guild, party, etc. I have yet to join a Guild in gw2. However, I find myself often randomly grouping up with people in the game world for Dynamic Events, which work well in sync with the lack of Holy Trinity. Often times I will ask for help in Group Events if I can't do them myself. 

    The one problem however, is the lack of real talking. We communicate, but it is with our abilities and actions in gw2. If the content of group events was a little more complicated, I think people will communicate more, even if it is to whine. 

    However, the simple fact of knowing these complete strangers have my back even if I don't talk with them is comforting and I enjoy the game a lot. The ability to solo by yourself yet just naturally (almost weirdly) flow into a group (zerg as trolls will call it) is the best way I have seen an MMO do it so far, and I hope many similair systems will go in place to help facilitate that even more.

  • VengeSunsoarVengeSunsoar Posts: 5,314Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by UsualSuspect
    Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

    2.  You cannot ask for a virtual world on one hand and ignore soloers, or groupers on the other.  The real world, that a virtual world is based on, doesn't need to have other people for all activities, and some activities require lots of other people.  So if you ask for a virtual world you are also asking for solo activity.  If you think it doesn't, you are lying to yourself.

    Yeah, because the real world also has elves, magic and dragons, so it makes sense that everything should be the same.. image image

     No but those are all people living in a world that is filled with rules.  The point still stands.  You can't ask for a virtual world and then not include things that a world would not only aturally have, but is expected in a world. 

    You expect flora, fauna of some kinds, usually a sentient species.  You don't expect everyone to always do everything together, nor do you expect everyone to always do everything alone. 

    Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  • UsualSuspectUsualSuspect CardiffPosts: 1,243Member
    Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

     No but those are all people living in a world that is filled with rules.  The point still stands.  You can't ask for a virtual world and then not include things that a world would not only aturally have, but is expected in a world. 

    You expect flora, fauna of some kinds, usually a sentient species.  You don't expect everyone to always do everything together, nor do you expect everyone to always do everything alone. 

    In a real world, if people were going out to fight massive rats, dire wolves, packs of orcs, or entering a dark, scary dungeon populated with the reanimated dead, unless they're insane they wouldn't be thinking they're badass enough to go it alone. See, in a real world, you get one shot, you don't respawn after death you.. uhh.. die. So if you're talking realism and worldly rules then you're also talking about wanting to save your own skin, and the best way to do that is through overwhelming numbers. There's a reason Rambo doesn't exist in the real world and we send out armies instead of lone wolves.

  • VengeSunsoarVengeSunsoar Posts: 5,314Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by UsualSuspect
    Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

     No but those are all people living in a world that is filled with rules.  The point still stands.  You can't ask for a virtual world and then not include things that a world would not only aturally have, but is expected in a world. 

    You expect flora, fauna of some kinds, usually a sentient species.  You don't expect everyone to always do everything together, nor do you expect everyone to always do everything alone. 

    In a real world, if people were going out to fight massive rats, dire wolves, packs of orcs, or entering a dark, scary dungeon populated with the reanimated dead, unless they're insane they wouldn't be thinking they're badass enough to go it alone. See, in a real world, you get one shot, you don't respawn after death you.. uhh.. die. So if you're talking realism and worldly rules then you're also talking about wanting to save your own skin, and the best way to do that is through overwhelming numbers. There's a reason Rambo doesn't exist in the real world and we send out armies instead of lone wolves.

    And yet many people do/did go out and hunt wolves, bears, tigers, elephants, lions... alone.  Many people do/did go exploring into strange new lands, new countries alone.

    There are many many many many activities that you can do in the real world alone including hunting, exploring, building, crafting, farming... hermits live alone.  Many people work alone.

    I did not state nor imply that groups were never needed, nor that most activities don't require groups.  I stated that there are many situations where groups are not needed. 

    Therefore you cannot have a virtual world and completely ignore basic aspects that a world is based on.  Therefore you cannot eliminate soloing likewise you cannot eliminate grouping.  If you completel eliminate either one it is no longer a virtual world. 

    Solo explorers:

    http://www.cnn.com/2012/10/05/travel/felicity-aston-antarctic-explorer/index.html

    http://www.abandonthecube.com/Adventurers.html

    http://www.markwoodexplorer.com/expeditions/north-south-solo-expedition

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Around_the_world_sailing_record

    Solo hunters

    http://www.solohunterstv.com/

    http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1423439

    http://forums.bowsite.com/tf/bgforums/thread.cfm?forum=5&threadid=356191&MESSAGES=12&FF=5

    http://www.skinnymoose.com/hogblog/2008/04/10/going-it-alone-hunting-solo/

     

    Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  • BeartosserBeartosser Toronto, ONPosts: 92Member
    Originally posted by CorvusCorax
    Originally posted by Beartosser

    The fact that devs still haven't designed an MMO for soloers is mind boggling. They're completely ignoring what is the largest segment of their potential customer base on a continual basis.

    No solo MMO's, no solo servers within existing MMO's, zero useful endgame gear for solo players in existing MMO's, superior performance for groupers vs soloable mobs in existing MMO's, solo players completely or partially locked out of end game content in existing MMO's.

    There's millions of potential customers out there who would play MMO's, but the devs have basically said "we don't want your business".

    The real irony for the group/raid oriented players who constantly complain on boards like this about how their game has been dumbed down, is if they'd gotten behind the idea of seperate solo MMO's or servers long ago, they would have had a much more enjoyable experience playing MMO's now, because the games or servers they play on would have been tailored more specifically towards their needs, instead of the diversified mush they're being fed now. 

    Might just be that the solo-only crowd is not big enough to warrant the massive funding needed to create a AAA MMO just for them. Could also be that MMO's are multiplayer games and soloing has nothing to do with multiplayer gameplay whatsoever. It is true that a lot of people who play MMO's spend a lot of that time soloing, but the amount of people who wants to do nothing else but soloing is most likely very small.

    The thing I find the most mindboggling is that people who are looking for the perfect singleplayer game experience are looking for it in a genre based on multiplayer instead of going to the forums of the next big singleplayer game in the making and discuss such things over there.

    Different servers is not a feasable sollution. Creating a AAA MMO requires an insane amount funds, creating both a AAA MMO and a AAA singleplayer game is just not a logical request. Resources are not infinite, the most probable thing to happen is a low quality game experience for everyone.

     

    The raid oriented crowd is smaller in numbers than the soloers, yet they seem to think MMO's should only be designed to meet their needs, so why not the other way around.

    Personally, I would prefer an MMO where everyone is included (GW2 was an admirable try at this), but if soloers keep running into a glass ceiling at every turn, maybe a little seperation is in order, to allow everyone an equal chance at progressing their characters to their fullest potential, and to experience all of the content.

    Since allowing soloers to do this is vehemently opposed at every turn by raiders, then maybe seperate servers are in order. It's not like this would be an incredibly taxing endeavour for the devs, All they would have to do is increase the quality of the drops from existing quests/mobs, then block that server from participating in cross server activities like pvp and auction houses, and the raiders on the other servers wouldn't be affected in the slightest.

  • CorvusCoraxCorvusCorax stockholmPosts: 38Member
    Originally posted by Beartosser
    Originally posted by CorvusCorax
    Originally posted by Beartosser

    The fact that devs still haven't designed an MMO for soloers is mind boggling. They're completely ignoring what is the largest segment of their potential customer base on a continual basis.

    No solo MMO's, no solo servers within existing MMO's, zero useful endgame gear for solo players in existing MMO's, superior performance for groupers vs soloable mobs in existing MMO's, solo players completely or partially locked out of end game content in existing MMO's.

    There's millions of potential customers out there who would play MMO's, but the devs have basically said "we don't want your business".

    The real irony for the group/raid oriented players who constantly complain on boards like this about how their game has been dumbed down, is if they'd gotten behind the idea of seperate solo MMO's or servers long ago, they would have had a much more enjoyable experience playing MMO's now, because the games or servers they play on would have been tailored more specifically towards their needs, instead of the diversified mush they're being fed now. 

    Might just be that the solo-only crowd is not big enough to warrant the massive funding needed to create a AAA MMO just for them. Could also be that MMO's are multiplayer games and soloing has nothing to do with multiplayer gameplay whatsoever. It is true that a lot of people who play MMO's spend a lot of that time soloing, but the amount of people who wants to do nothing else but soloing is most likely very small.

    The thing I find the most mindboggling is that people who are looking for the perfect singleplayer game experience are looking for it in a genre based on multiplayer instead of going to the forums of the next big singleplayer game in the making and discuss such things over there.

    Different servers is not a feasable sollution. Creating a AAA MMO requires an insane amount funds, creating both a AAA MMO and a AAA singleplayer game is just not a logical request. Resources are not infinite, the most probable thing to happen is a low quality game experience for everyone.

     

    The raid oriented crowd is smaller in numbers than the soloers, yet they seem to think MMO's should only be designed to meet their needs, so why not the other way around.

    Personally, I would prefer an MMO where everyone is included (GW2 was an admirable try at this), but if soloers keep running into a glass ceiling at every turn, maybe a little seperation is in order, to allow everyone an equal chance at progressing their characters to their fullest potential, and to experience all of the content.

    Since allowing soloers to do this is vehemently opposed at every turn by raiders, then maybe seperate servers are in order. It's not like this would be an incredibly taxing endeavour for the devs, All they would have to do is increase the quality of the drops from existing quests/mobs, then block that server from participating in cross server activities like pvp and auction houses, and the raiders on the other servers wouldn't be affected in the slightest.

    Do you have any sources to back up that claim?. Raiding is multiplayer gameplay, soloing is not. That is not only enough reason to design a MMORPG for raiding endgame but it is also simple logic. People who are raiding is not only raiding when they play, they solo, run dungeons, pvp, craft etc. If you want to solo that is fine, if you want a single player experience however then a single player game is the answer and not multiplayer games.

    Different servers with super loot for basically everything you do?, that is pretty ridicolous, it wouldt make much sense to start with, it would also not solve your problem since they would also have to nerf every group/raid boss that has mechanics that could never be beaten by a single person no matter the gear. Its not  a logical sollution for a self created problem. You and anyone else with this mindset should visit the forums of some up and coming single player game and discuss over there about adding a multiplayer option with crafting, auction house, a chat channel and the option to group up for single player content. Instead of trying to turn MMORPG's into single player game with multiplayer tacked on to them.

    image
  • UsualSuspectUsualSuspect CardiffPosts: 1,243Member
    Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

    And yet many people do/did go out and hunt wolves, bears, tigers, elephants, lions... alone.  Many people do/did go exploring into strange new lands, new countries alone.

    There are many many many many activities that you can do in the real world alone including hunting, exploring, building, crafting, farming... hermits live alone.  Many people work alone.

    I did not state nor imply that groups were never needed, nor that most activities don't require groups.  I stated that there are many situations where groups are not needed. 

    Therefore you cannot have a virtual world and completely ignore basic aspects that a world is based on.  Therefore you cannot eliminate soloing likewise you cannot eliminate grouping.  If you completel eliminate either one it is no longer a virtual world.

    And here I go back again to the fact that we're talking about a game world, not the real world. In the real world a hunter would shoot an arrow or a bullet into a wolf and it would crumple under the pain, making it a relatively simple target. In a game that wolf loses 5 hitpoints then turns and starts ripping you a new one.

    The world is inhabited by communities if you hadn't noticed. Before our population grew to massive levels we still came together for safety, security and companionship. I don't care if Bob the Hunter decided to become a loner and go for a wander in the great outdoors, people naturally look to each other for protection, why do you think villages and cities evolved in the first place?

    I have no problem with someone trying to deal with the dangers alone, I'm not advocating the complete removal of soloing from MMO's, but it should be a difficult process. Community first, self last, that's how it should be. Lone hunters are very cautious, they ensure their scent isn't noticed, hide for a time, prepare ambushes, attack only when they're certain of a kill, pick off the weak from a herd.. And that's how it should be, soloing should be hard and dangerous, not a straight run from start to end without needing another person.

  • VengeSunsoarVengeSunsoar Posts: 5,314Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by UsualSuspect
    Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

    And yet many people do/did go out and hunt wolves, bears, tigers, elephants, lions... alone.  Many people do/did go exploring into strange new lands, new countries alone.

    There are many many many many activities that you can do in the real world alone including hunting, exploring, building, crafting, farming... hermits live alone.  Many people work alone.

    I did not state nor imply that groups were never needed, nor that most activities don't require groups.  I stated that there are many situations where groups are not needed. 

    Therefore you cannot have a virtual world and completely ignore basic aspects that a world is based on.  Therefore you cannot eliminate soloing likewise you cannot eliminate grouping.  If you completel eliminate either one it is no longer a virtual world.

    And here I go back again to the fact that we're talking about a game world, not the real world. In the real world a hunter would shoot an arrow or a bullet into a wolf and it would crumple under the pain, making it a relatively simple target. In a game that wolf loses 5 hitpoints then turns and starts ripping you a new one.

    The world is inhabited by communities if you hadn't noticed. Before our population grew to massive levels we still came together for safety, security and companionship. I don't care if Bob the Hunter decided to become a loner and go for a wander in the great outdoors, people naturally look to each other for protection, why do you think villages and cities evolved in the first place?

    I have no problem with someone trying to deal with the dangers alone, I'm not advocating the complete removal of soloing from MMO's, but it should be a difficult process. Community first, self last, that's how it should be. Lone hunters are very cautious, they ensure their scent isn't noticed, hide for a time, prepare ambushes, attack only when they're certain of a kill, pick off the weak from a herd.. And that's how it should be, soloing should be hard and dangerous, not a straight run from start to end without needing another person.

    Game world or not, it is still a virtual world.  That is the key, a VIRTUAL WORLD.  This means that the people in the world have all sorts of choices. 

    I never stated it shouldn't be difficult, I never stated it shouldn't be harder.  I have maintained that it should be possible.  That eliminating it completely breaks the rules on what a world is, therefore it is not a virtual world anymore.

    You may not have been advocating the complete removal.  But there are many that are stating exactly that and still wanting a virtual world.  To them I say you cannot have a virtual world without it. 

    Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  • BeartosserBeartosser Toronto, ONPosts: 92Member
    Originally posted by CorvusCorax
    Originally posted by Beartosser
    Originally posted by CorvusCorax
    Originally posted by Beartosser

    The fact that devs still haven't designed an MMO for soloers is mind boggling. They're completely ignoring what is the largest segment of their potential customer base on a continual basis.

    No solo MMO's, no solo servers within existing MMO's, zero useful endgame gear for solo players in existing MMO's, superior performance for groupers vs soloable mobs in existing MMO's, solo players completely or partially locked out of end game content in existing MMO's.

    There's millions of potential customers out there who would play MMO's, but the devs have basically said "we don't want your business".

    The real irony for the group/raid oriented players who constantly complain on boards like this about how their game has been dumbed down, is if they'd gotten behind the idea of seperate solo MMO's or servers long ago, they would have had a much more enjoyable experience playing MMO's now, because the games or servers they play on would have been tailored more specifically towards their needs, instead of the diversified mush they're being fed now. 

    Might just be that the solo-only crowd is not big enough to warrant the massive funding needed to create a AAA MMO just for them. Could also be that MMO's are multiplayer games and soloing has nothing to do with multiplayer gameplay whatsoever. It is true that a lot of people who play MMO's spend a lot of that time soloing, but the amount of people who wants to do nothing else but soloing is most likely very small.

    The thing I find the most mindboggling is that people who are looking for the perfect singleplayer game experience are looking for it in a genre based on multiplayer instead of going to the forums of the next big singleplayer game in the making and discuss such things over there.

    Different servers is not a feasable sollution. Creating a AAA MMO requires an insane amount funds, creating both a AAA MMO and a AAA singleplayer game is just not a logical request. Resources are not infinite, the most probable thing to happen is a low quality game experience for everyone.

     

    The raid oriented crowd is smaller in numbers than the soloers, yet they seem to think MMO's should only be designed to meet their needs, so why not the other way around.

    Personally, I would prefer an MMO where everyone is included (GW2 was an admirable try at this), but if soloers keep running into a glass ceiling at every turn, maybe a little seperation is in order, to allow everyone an equal chance at progressing their characters to their fullest potential, and to experience all of the content.

    Since allowing soloers to do this is vehemently opposed at every turn by raiders, then maybe seperate servers are in order. It's not like this would be an incredibly taxing endeavour for the devs, All they would have to do is increase the quality of the drops from existing quests/mobs, then block that server from participating in cross server activities like pvp and auction houses, and the raiders on the other servers wouldn't be affected in the slightest.

    Do you have any sources to back up that claim?. Raiding is multiplayer gameplay, soloing is not. That is not only enough reason to design a MMORPG for raiding endgame but it is also simple logic. People who are raiding is not only raiding when they play, they solo, run dungeons, pvp, craft etc. If you want to solo that is fine, if you want a single player experience however then a single player game is the answer and not multiplayer games.

    Different servers with super loot for basically everything you do?, that is pretty ridicolous, it wouldt make much sense to start with, it would also not solve your problem since they would also have to nerf every group/raid boss that has mechanics that could never be beaten by a single person no matter the gear. Its not  a logical sollution for a self created problem. You and anyone else with this mindset should visit the forums of some up and coming single player game and discuss over there about adding a multiplayer option with crafting, auction house, a chat channel and the option to group up for single player content. Instead of trying to turn MMORPG's into single player game with multiplayer tacked on to them.

    The devs are well aware of the predominance of solo gameplay through their own internal studies, and the gameplaying public has been ever since the "Alone Together" study was released. The very nature of online gaming draws a high percentage of introverts, who naturally prefer solo gameplay. The devs have a hard time understanding (and therefore delivering content for) them because the devs are more predisposed towards extraversion, therefore they experience a natural disconnect with that personality type.

    The second M in MMORPG stands for multiple, meaning many people playing at one time. That means all playstyles, not just raiding, otherwise they'd be called MRORPG's. I can understand how after being catered to hand and foot by the devs over the years, the raiders would think that to be so, but that is not the case.

    As for different servers with super loot, didn't ask for that, just a valid means for soloers to progress their characters as far as anyone else. If raiders are so offended by the possibility of soloers being rewarded for their efforts in a fair and equitable manner, then maybe a little seperation is in order.

  • UsualSuspectUsualSuspect CardiffPosts: 1,243Member
    Originally posted by Beartosser

    As for different servers with super loot, didn't ask for that, just a valid means for soloers to progress their characters as far as anyone else. If raiders are so offended by the possibility of soloers being rewarded for their efforts in a fair and equitable manner, then maybe a little seperation is in order.

    You have to remember raids are purely time sinks, the incentive is awesome gear. Let's say 40 people, 5 of each class, 3 drops per raid mob, randomized between different classes. Just how many times do you have to run that raid to guarantee you get all your drops?

    How would you create a way for soloers to progress their character as far as the raiders, while keeping the amount of time required so high? Solo, by its very nature, is going to be a set path to completion, thus just the one run through of some solo instance is generally enough. If not, then how many times are you going to be happy repeating the same instance on your own until you get what you need? 20 times? 50? 100? If a game asks me to repeat the same instance on my own that many times then I'm going to be saying goodbye to the game.

    The thing with raiding is it brings people together, it's not just about the instance it's about the people around you, and though soloers don't seem to realise, that makes a WORLD of difference. I could run the same dungeon in Oblviion a couple of times, but any more and I've had enough. A raid is different every time purely because of human error, compensating for someone elses mistakes, altering tactics on the fly as someone unexpectedly dies, etc. A solo instance lacks that danger because it has to be tailored to one person, so repeating that same instance will quickly become very boring and repetitive.

  • CorvusCoraxCorvusCorax stockholmPosts: 38Member
    Originally posted by Beartosser
    Originally posted by CorvusCorax
    Originally posted by Beartosser
    Originally posted by CorvusCorax
    Originally posted by Beartosser

    The fact that devs still haven't designed an MMO for soloers is mind boggling. They're completely ignoring what is the largest segment of their potential customer base on a continual basis.

    No solo MMO's, no solo servers within existing MMO's, zero useful endgame gear for solo players in existing MMO's, superior performance for groupers vs soloable mobs in existing MMO's, solo players completely or partially locked out of end game content in existing MMO's.

    There's millions of potential customers out there who would play MMO's, but the devs have basically said "we don't want your business".

    The real irony for the group/raid oriented players who constantly complain on boards like this about how their game has been dumbed down, is if they'd gotten behind the idea of seperate solo MMO's or servers long ago, they would have had a much more enjoyable experience playing MMO's now, because the games or servers they play on would have been tailored more specifically towards their needs, instead of the diversified mush they're being fed now. 

    Might just be that the solo-only crowd is not big enough to warrant the massive funding needed to create a AAA MMO just for them. Could also be that MMO's are multiplayer games and soloing has nothing to do with multiplayer gameplay whatsoever. It is true that a lot of people who play MMO's spend a lot of that time soloing, but the amount of people who wants to do nothing else but soloing is most likely very small.

    The thing I find the most mindboggling is that people who are looking for the perfect singleplayer game experience are looking for it in a genre based on multiplayer instead of going to the forums of the next big singleplayer game in the making and discuss such things over there.

    Different servers is not a feasable sollution. Creating a AAA MMO requires an insane amount funds, creating both a AAA MMO and a AAA singleplayer game is just not a logical request. Resources are not infinite, the most probable thing to happen is a low quality game experience for everyone.

     

    The raid oriented crowd is smaller in numbers than the soloers, yet they seem to think MMO's should only be designed to meet their needs, so why not the other way around.

    Personally, I would prefer an MMO where everyone is included (GW2 was an admirable try at this), but if soloers keep running into a glass ceiling at every turn, maybe a little seperation is in order, to allow everyone an equal chance at progressing their characters to their fullest potential, and to experience all of the content.

    Since allowing soloers to do this is vehemently opposed at every turn by raiders, then maybe seperate servers are in order. It's not like this would be an incredibly taxing endeavour for the devs, All they would have to do is increase the quality of the drops from existing quests/mobs, then block that server from participating in cross server activities like pvp and auction houses, and the raiders on the other servers wouldn't be affected in the slightest.

    Do you have any sources to back up that claim?. Raiding is multiplayer gameplay, soloing is not. That is not only enough reason to design a MMORPG for raiding endgame but it is also simple logic. People who are raiding is not only raiding when they play, they solo, run dungeons, pvp, craft etc. If you want to solo that is fine, if you want a single player experience however then a single player game is the answer and not multiplayer games.

    Different servers with super loot for basically everything you do?, that is pretty ridicolous, it wouldt make much sense to start with, it would also not solve your problem since they would also have to nerf every group/raid boss that has mechanics that could never be beaten by a single person no matter the gear. Its not  a logical sollution for a self created problem. You and anyone else with this mindset should visit the forums of some up and coming single player game and discuss over there about adding a multiplayer option with crafting, auction house, a chat channel and the option to group up for single player content. Instead of trying to turn MMORPG's into single player game with multiplayer tacked on to them.

    The devs are well aware of the predominance of solo gameplay through their own internal studies, and the gameplaying public has been ever since the "Alone Together" study was released. The very nature of online gaming draws a high percentage of introverts, who naturally prefer solo gameplay. The devs have a hard time understanding (and therefore delivering content for) them because the devs are more predisposed towards extraversion, therefore they experience a natural disconnect with that personality type.

    The second M in MMORPG stands for multiple, meaning many people playing at one time. That means all playstyles, not just raiding, otherwise they'd be called MRORPG's. I can understand how after being catered to hand and foot by the devs over the years, the raiders would think that to be so, but that is not the case.

    As for different servers with super loot, didn't ask for that, just a valid means for soloers to progress their characters as far as anyone else. If raiders are so offended by the possibility of soloers being rewarded for their efforts in a fair and equitable manner, then maybe a little seperation is in order.

    I asked if you had any actual sources to back up that claim, you still have not provided any. I am an introvert myself and I still enjoy multiplayer gameplay over soloing, so just because someone is an introvert does not automatically mean that they prefer soloing over everything else in a MMORPG. You do not speak for every introverted individual out there so dont use introverted people as an argument.

    The second M in MMORPG has and always will stand for multiplayer, you can look it up if you want. There is also more forms of multiplayer gameplay than raiding, you have grouping, pvp, trading etc, the thing that they all have in common is that they all require other players to even exist while soloing does not. It is not a matter of being catered to, its a matter of multiplayer gameplay in a multiplayer game.

    Seperation is not a logical sollution because developers have to make seperate changes to a seperate version of the original game just for a few soloers on their own seperated server. Ive said it before and I will say it again, go to the forums of a single player game and ask them to add online features, crafting and a auction house, basically the same way diablo 3 is. It requires far less resources because those features only has to be added once and the rest of the game is already designed for your type of gameplay.

    image
Sign In or Register to comment.