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Originally posted by Loktofeit In his mind, if the features are not designed specifically for him, then the game is flawed. He's not unique in that view. That kind of thinking is rather pervasive here. Worse, they can't let it go as not being for them, they have to 'warn' others abvout it, as well.
This isn't about me, it's a general concern about griefers, which got gradually spoke about and explained as the topic went, flaws are weaknesses in a system, it's in human nature to exploit flaws, those videos are adorable examples of flaws exploits, which led to wonder if a suggestion of offering the option to not force PKing would be viable, it's not a sickness or a syndrome or a mentality deficiency, it's common sense to talk about it.
If it's any help, the informations provided in the thread were very informative, a lot of stuff that i didn't know, and can be persuasive enough to see how it goes after closed beta.
Originally posted by Uzik [mod edit]
Yes there certainly are. The market will determine the fate of this game. If there are enough people playing it, it will survive. Other wise, it will go the same way that Shadowbane did.
Originally posted by XxGrimmxX So why not go to the extreme since this is an extreme game--ganking a player under your level, or maybe under some level range, will result in your character not being able to be revived (0% chance) if you die while red. See? Easy peasy.
Easy peasy because you could not have spent more than 10 seconds coming up with that gem. That horribly, horribly flawed gem.
It's a gem, though.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Originally posted by Drakaden So i got this concern, and i'm sure i'm not alone to think so, this game isn't fair in any way in a PvP environment, it's level, gear and class skills based, that's worse than a paper rock scissors pvp system, why? Because it means you can be bullied, very, very easily, PKers get very high lvl, gain awesome gear, adjust their skills for PKing mainly, then they go in low level dungeons, where players cannot fight back whatsoever due to the heavy gear defenses/offensives stacked against them, you see where i'm getting at? It's terrible! I was fine with the perma death system in a PvE environment, but the PK is too much of a concern for me.
I havent played the game yet so i dunno if this works this ways, but if anything you can take it as a sort of dynamic event, and since you're aware of the problem you could take precautions and prepare something to run away fast. If they designed the pk system the way it is i dont think they would leave such a matter as is. But, again, pure speculation
Originally posted by Adamai ... my endorsement is that this game is a fail of a gank fest and will not survive.
brand new definition of "permadeath"?
That's a disproportionately harsh penalty for a game play mechanic that is encouraged and catered for. It's nonsensiscal to assume that just because you dislike a particular style of game play, others should be punished for playing that way.
The point is this: the game offers CHALLENGE in the form of hard monster encounters, puzzles, mazes, and... yes, you guessed it... other players. You're not meant to go in game and have a static "run through the PvE treadmill" experience. It's very much like Dark Souls in that regard. This isn't supposed to be a PvE treadmill in the same way WoW is a PvE treadmill. You're not supposed to get off lightly. Every decision you make should be informed, because every decision you make can potentially result in a HUGE cost should you mess up. That's part and parcel of the appeal.
If a player chooses to go for the PvP aspects of the game, they are opening themselves up to a load of restrictions PvE players don't have to suffer. They are limited in which vendors they can go to, they are fair game for PvE players to take down (as well as fair game for other PvP players), they can't risk the PvE content (see previous point) in the same way PvE players can, etc etc; they near-exclusivesly get their loot from killing other players.
So let's look at this:
PvP players can kill PvE players. They can "get the jump" on them in certain situations. So how do you deal with that? Firstly, you don't blindly run at every mob you encounter, and if you pull... don't default to attacking. Check around the area and make sure there are no untoward players hanging around waiting for the chance to gank you. Once you're sure it is clear, take on the encounter. If you die, at least you did everything in your power to secure yourself.
PvP players can group-gank solo players, but PvE players can group up to avoid group ganking. You have to consider that in order to achieve ganking, PvP players have to form a group. Once they do, they're generally having to share loot. Grouping is rewarding in so much as they will pick off any stragglers with ease, but the price they pay is that each member of the group gets less loot. If you are solo and you get ganked, you were playing against the odds anyway. You can avoid being ganked by... being in a group of your own ;D GvG fights aren't going to be as cut and dry as PvPers would like them (considering the aims of PvP in WO), and they will either run, or stay and fight a long grueling battle. And if you die... at least you put the effort in
This point about PvPers running naked, and moving gear to a mule to transfer to town, is nonsensical. PvEers can do this as well. What you're complaining about here is people playing intelligently, rather than any inherent imbalance in the system. If a PvPer attacks you with little to no gear on, and you have a fairly nice set of items... the first hit they MAY OR MAY NOT get on you isn't going to do them much good
The problem with PKing isn't the PKing itself. It's the ignorance that surrounds the systems in place. PvEers don't understand the price PvPers are paying to be able to PK, and so they just assume that they are having their cake and eating it. They're not, and people should work to be more informed about game play systems before they complain about them.
And if the game is too hard... go and play another game that isn't too hard. I'm fed up of this, "I don't like how the game is so it should change for me," ideal that exists in the MMO fanbase. It doesn't really exist anywhere else in gaming. If you don't like CoD, you play another FPS; you don't whine about it until they change it in the way that YOU want (and if you do, they just ignore you).
The sentiment I'm getting out of the beta right now is this: PKing is great fun during testing as there really isn't a long term price to pay for the actions commited. If you die, the amount of effort you've put it is negligible and easily dismissed. However... when the game goes live, PKing is going to become a rather stressful affair. PvEers can run around hundreds of other players at any given time, and only a small percent of them will ever pose a risk. PvPers won't have that luxury, with other PvPers AND PvEers all posing an equal and significant risk to their safety.
The way I see it, if you play intelligently - whether you choose to run solo or not - you can easily minimise and control the risk of death at the hands of another player. And that's what the game is all about: damage control and mitigation, thinking, planning, taking your time, strategising, and.... paying the price when you fail to do those things
Originally posted by Adamai I watched those clips and i have to say game mechanics are terri le, anything that supports a perso with a few accounrs camping out in a dungeon specifically to farm lower level players for their loot is a dead game before it even starts. my endorsement is that this game is a fail of a gank fest and will not survive.
It's an action game so trying to PvP more than one account at once is kind of out of the question.
I dont' get the concern? This is the games model, if you like this model...great...good game for you. That said, you obviously don't, so you should probably be looking at a different game. This is obviously a hardcore game...something that the market needs tbh.
Originally posted by Magicpsychoc Originally posted by Drakaden So i got this concern, and i'm sure i'm not alone to think so, this game isn't fair in any way in a PvP environment, it's level, gear and class skills based, that's worse than a paper rock scissors pvp system, why? Because it means you can be bullied, very, very easily, PKers get very high lvl, gain awesome gear, adjust their skills for PKing mainly, then they go in low level dungeons, where players cannot fight back whatsoever due to the heavy gear defenses/offensives stacked against them, you see where i'm getting at? It's terrible! I was fine with the perma death system in a PvE environment, but the PK is too much of a concern for me.
That's because it's never the concern of the higher level toon camping the noobs.
Originally posted by dotdotdash Originally posted by XxGrimmxX So why not go to the extreme since this is an extreme game--ganking a player under your level, or maybe under some level range, will result in your character not being able to be revived (0% chance) if you die while red. See? Easy peasy.
I think it would be a bit harsh, but I think farming characters ten levels below your level is harsh as well.
I'll agree with that, although you can never calculate the "human" factor in pvp.
So they have to go to a different vendor in the same town to get the same quality items? Since it's a pvp based game, they are fair game regardless. Why not, they can group and do pve, according to one of your next points. So the arguement grinds to a tie.
Most common pvp tactic I have seen, attack while target is already engaged, so unless you and/or your party are alone, everyone is a potential threat.
Oh look, they can group, so much for no pve. Most pvp's will group in this game to gank,it is most certainly a group centric style of play. Also, pve's grouped will have to split as well. That's why they will engage after a group is busy.
Yeah, that would not be advised, guess we will see kill squads in groups then?
Yet to see any kind of punishment,other than being labled a criminal, and heaven forbid we can't have town npc's attacking those guys.
I agree 100%, but I find most of the whining comes from the pvp crowd calling for "balance." I have seen to many utility classes nerfed to useless because of this.
They are just testing the waters to get a head start on what works best for pvp, good for them.
As long as you group, you may be ok. I have nothing against the setup for this game, it sounds fun, but don't bring this to the table, and not look at it from more than one point of view.
Originally posted by Politicaldad Yeeeahhh... Open PvP everywhere .... gave the game a shot .... but.... ganked in town ... during Quests .... at the bank..... trying to heal..... long walks back to reveive.... with a 95% chance to reincarnate ... because I lost all the 'identified' loot during the last 3 resurections... you cant offer up unidentified items trying to get the reincarnate scales to 100%.... oh.. but look! I get a awarded title for Multi deaths... and one for Multi deaths to PK'ers .. yeah... no thanks ... it's why I left Mortal Online... yes you can keep those PKing a$$hats.... I'll spend my time in another game.
This! That game will FAIL within a couple of months thus closing down...
This is right from the front page of the game site sorry if you didnt read it but its full PvP but here is what it says.
Thirty years in the making, Wizardry Online is a Free to Play, hardcore fantasy MMORPG.From insane difficulty to complex mazes, unrelenting Mobs and traps around every turn, even the best RPG players will find this to be the ultimate challenge.With the risk of permadeath always looming, players group with trusted allies to survive. Using skill based combat, and a little bit of luck, players battle to defeat amazing anime creatures, cheat death, and live to tell the world!
Now if you want Perma Death and not have PvP you will not find it in a MMO thats just the way MMO's will be amid is Perma Death and PvP. Gankers love thease type of games because they like greifing players who whine about it my suggestion if you dont wanna die or lose everything then dont play the game.