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Unholy Wars world size will be huge! But diverse? or Empty?

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Comments

  • corpusccorpusc Chattanooga, TNPosts: 1,330Member
    Originally posted by Cecropia
    Originally posted by MindTrigger

    Out of curiosity, I've been told by several people on this site that DF:UW is basically pure PvP, with little or no PvE.  What's the point of such a huge world in that case?

    (I didn't play DF, so this is all new to me)

    For what it's worth; I spent more of my time in DF doing PVE than PVP. I enjoyed the crafting (while not terribly deep), loved the exploration, and the game had the best mob AI I've encountered in the genre.

    I never had any problems finding fun things to do when I wasn't doing some PVP in DF.

     

    i agree with all this (except the part about crafting, but it wasn't particularly bad, i just hate crafting in general).

     

    i barely PVP'ed at all due to the huge noob-to-vet power gap that it was for the majority of its life.  

     

    all my 4-5 months of DF was PVE, mostly solo, altho i was in a couple clans for a bit.

     

    but if the launch is anything like DF-in-2009's launch, you will be attacked regularly by players while you are out PVE'ing.

    The End
    ---------------------------
    i don't expect to like Darkfall, altho i may like it MORE than other MMOs. i know it is gonna have a very frustrating level of grind to it, even if its significantly less than most. waiting for a pure FAST action virtual world. dice rolling & character levels (even "skills") IN COMBAT should have never carried over from pencil & paper to a computer that can reasonably model 3D spaces and objects

  • FluteFlute WellingtonPosts: 434Member
    Originally posted by Cocophish
    Originally posted by MindTrigger

    Out of curiosity, I've been told by several people on this site that DF:UW is basically pure PvP, with little or no PvE.  What's the point of such a huge world in that case?

    (I didn't play DF, so this is all new to me)

    There is as much pve as you want! From small solo mob spawns to large boss mobs that require large groups.

     

     

    This is totally true.  I played Darkfall for a couple years, primarily as a pve / naval pvp player.  Darkfall had some of the best pve ever, and taking down a red dragon with a bunch of new players with bows never (ever) failed to be incredibly fun, and kiling kraken & golems with ship cannons was just the icing on the cake :)

     

    Anyone who says DF:UW is pure pvp has missed the point - the backbone of the player economy is people mining, chopping wood, and pveíng.  Player cities were never built by PvP - they were built by socially minded harvesters, crafters and pve'ers.  All of whom then rallied together to defend what they had built, when pvp players decided to just try to take it off them.  As someone who baked bread and made arrows during an extended siege (and we won!), never let anyone tell you Darkfall is only about pvp.  It's like EVE Online in that regard - there is a heavy focus on pvp, but that pvp simply could not happen without the rest of the game world.  A mighty warrior in heavy armour with greatsword is the icon of pvp, but he or she would be naked without the pve and crafting that made all their gear! 

  • MindTriggerMindTrigger La Quinta, CAPosts: 2,596Member
    Originally posted by Flute
    Originally posted by Cocophish
    Originally posted by MindTrigger

    Out of curiosity, I've been told by several people on this site that DF:UW is basically pure PvP, with little or no PvE.  What's the point of such a huge world in that case?

    (I didn't play DF, so this is all new to me)

    There is as much pve as you want! From small solo mob spawns to large boss mobs that require large groups.

     

     

    This is totally true.  I played Darkfall for a couple years, primarily as a pve / naval pvp player.  Darkfall had some of the best pve ever, and taking down a red dragon with a bunch of new players with bows never (ever) failed to be incredibly fun, and kiling kraken & golems with ship cannons was just the icing on the cake :)

     

    Anyone who says DF:UW is pure pvp has missed the point - the backbone of the player economy is people mining, chopping wood, and pveíng.  Player cities were never built by PvP - they were built by socially minded harvesters, crafters and pve'ers.  All of whom then rallied together to defend what they had built, when pvp players decided to just try to take it off them.  As someone who baked bread and made arrows during an extended siege (and we won!), never let anyone tell you Darkfall is only about pvp.  It's like EVE Online in that regard - there is a heavy focus on pvp, but that pvp simply could not happen without the rest of the game world.  A mighty warrior in heavy armour with greatsword is the icon of pvp, but he or she would be naked without the pve and crafting that made all their gear! 

    Well, shit.  I wish you guys would make up your mind.  I all but abandoned plans to buy this until now.  I love world pvp, but I don't want a game that is basically all world pvp with nothing else. When is the pre-order??  :)

    Thanks for the replies BTW.

    A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.

  • king0fmarsking0fmars eagle, WIPosts: 43Member
    Originally posted by Impeator101

    The original DarkFall game will be about the same size and UW, here is a good comparison with WoW on the size.

     

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hcCOPDpha5I   Read the comment the Uploader made. What bothers me is the Sprinting time is so short for Darkfall and it seems like there is unlimited sprint. I hope there is not Unlimited Sprint in Unholy Wars. 

     

    As for the World itself, WoW may be a lot smaller but every single zone looked different and was very detailed. Unholy Wars does not look like it will have the same diversity of enviornments that WoW had, no really exotic locations, just Grasslands, Snow, Volcanoe Ashlands, Deserts and Wasteland. The world itself also looks very empty, I wanna see huge cities that are alive with people (NPC's).

    In darkfall the people are actually people. I've been in busy cities bustling with people many times however, this is a scenario that needs to be earned.

    Darkfall is about earning victory through blood, sweat and tears. Things that you think are missing in darkfall from your favorite mmorpg are most likely left out by design.

  • Imperator101Imperator101 Toronto, ONPosts: 131Member

    So a list of things you can do in this game.

    1. Raid Dungeons deep underground or above ground areas for Epic PVE encounters with huge bosses that you need a group to fight, will it have this? 

    2. Questing, will the questing even have variety? 

    3. Exploring (any mmo you can do this)

    4. World PVP 

    5. Organised PVP offenses like assaulting the enemies citie/fortress

    6. Ship PVP battles

     

    Well those are all the things you can do in the game.

    image
  • DMKanoDMKano Gamercentral, AKPosts: 8,553Member Uncommon
    I see several posters mentioning "handcrafted" world design - every aaa game has their world handcrafted. What major game didn't have the world handcrafted?
  • GwapoJoshGwapoJosh Auburn, INPosts: 991Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Caaahl

    Say what!?

     

    DF had the most beautiful hand made exotic locations I've ever seen in any mmo. Paired with breathtaking sunsets and awsome shadows.

     

    Say what you want about DF graphics, but the environment has always been one of the big plus factors for DF.

     

    PS: Here is an old video i made during a pve trip with friends. So i just filmed along when we were travelling thorugh the world:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7Bgyiet99s

    I 100% agree with this..  And also I love your sig lol

    "You are all going to poop yourselves." BillMurphy
    image

  • indefindef Thousand Oaks, CAPosts: 344Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Impeator101

    The original DarkFall game will be about the same size and UW, here is a good comparison with WoW on the size.

     Incorrect.  The world in Unholy Wars will be significantly SMALLER than the old world.  The old world was far far far far far too large and spread the population out way too thin.

    They cut out a lot of the unused water areas, brought islands closer to the main land, made the 4 sub continents smaller and brought those closer to the main land as well.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hcCOPDpha5I   Read the comment the Uploader made. What bothers me is the Sprinting time is so short for Darkfall and it seems like there is unlimited sprint. I hope there is not Unlimited Sprint in Unholy Wars. 

     Sprinting was never unlimited in Darkfall 1.  Sprinting used stamina and after about 2-3 minutes of continuous sprinting (without casting mana to stamina, using food, or using a stamina pot) you would be out of stamina and no longer able to run.  The times in the video are completely inaccurate.  I could travel on a mount from one corner of the world to the other in about 2 hours.  It would be about 4 or 5 hours running...but there is no logical reason to ever do that.  The longest trek I made on foot was from Alfarlands (bottom center mainland) to CBay on Yssam (right side of top right continent) when I was a new player.  That took about 2-3 hours, but I had a blast because I was exploring the world for the first time.

    As for the World itself, WoW may be a lot smaller but every single zone looked different and was very detailed. Unholy Wars does not look like it will have the same diversity of enviornments that WoW had, no really exotic locations, just Grasslands, Snow, Volcanoe Ashlands, Deserts and Wasteland. The world itself also looks very empty, I wanna see huge cities that are alive with people (NPC's).

    Darkfall 1 didn't have NPC filled cities.  There are about 5 NPC cities in each race's area on the main land, and each had usually between 4 and 7 NPCs.  DF:UW won't have this either.  There is no point to NPC cities in a game that has 95% of its content generated by players.  It's a major difference between sandbox and themepark style MMOs.  The areas of the world we've seen in the recent videos look spectacular and are exactly what they should be for a game like Darkfall.

     

  • indefindef Thousand Oaks, CAPosts: 344Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Impeator101

    So a list of things you can do in this game.

    1. Raid Dungeons deep underground or above ground areas for Epic PVE encounters with huge bosses that you need a group to fight, will it have this? 

    No raid dungeons.  Dungeons in Darkfall are non-instanced PvE areas that usually contain decent mob spawns.  They might put some big bosses in these for UW who knows... but it wasn't in DF1.  PvE is not the main focus of DF:UW, it is mostly a means of aquiring materials/gold/reagants for PvPing later on.

    2. Questing, will the questing even have variety? 

    They have removed questing entirely for DF:UW.  There was barely any questing in DF1 as it was.  In DF:UW there is an achievement system that shows you achievements you can accomplish based on location.  This will serve as an exploration based questing system in a way....but I'm sure it will be heavily PvP based.  We'll see how that plays out.

    3. Exploring (any mmo you can do this)

    A huge aspect of Darkfall.  My first month in DF1 was spent roaming the world and dying in all sorts of random encounters with mobs and other players.

    4. World PVP 

    This is what Darkfall is about. DF:UW will have a heavy focus on clan and alliance warfare.  There will be resource nodes on timers throughout the world that can be controlled by clans that own cities nearby.  These will be fought over all day every day.

    5. Organised PVP offenses like assaulting the enemies citie/fortress

    The main calling card of Darkfall....siege warfare.

    6. Ship PVP battles

    Honestly naval warfare in DF1 was very lackluster and boring for the most part.  Also the fact that you could water begone (a form of water bunnyhopping) faster than a ship could sail, made it all pretty pointless.  I spent a large majority of my time in Darkfall in the water because my clan was always very good at water archery... which is what every ship battle turned into.  DF:UW will only have like 2 ships in at launch if that and really there won't be a focus on naval warfare until much later on.

     

    Well those are all the things you can do in the game.

     

  • corpusccorpusc Chattanooga, TNPosts: 1,330Member
    Originally posted by DMKano
    I see several posters mentioning "handcrafted" world design - every aaa game has their world handcrafted. What major game didn't have the world handcrafted?

     

    regardless of the ACTUAL method employed..... 

     

    a good number of EQ1 zones looked pretty random

    Planetside 1 looked randomly generated.

    haven't tried PS2 yet, but i doubt the world design aspect is much better, since they weren't attempting to make an actual world.  just gigantic arenas.

    The End
    ---------------------------
    i don't expect to like Darkfall, altho i may like it MORE than other MMOs. i know it is gonna have a very frustrating level of grind to it, even if its significantly less than most. waiting for a pure FAST action virtual world. dice rolling & character levels (even "skills") IN COMBAT should have never carried over from pencil & paper to a computer that can reasonably model 3D spaces and objects

  • BuniontToesBuniontToes Wayout, DEPosts: 529Member

    Note:

    DFO1 was FAR more detailed than  any zone in WOW.  No comparison.

    Nearly every game has been designed using auto-terrain generators.  I know of none other than DFO which use a hand crafted world.

     

    We have limited information on the world size.  We know it has been redesigned but nowhere has it been indicated that it is "much" smaller.  If you read Av sttemtns carefully they indicated the wate areas have been reduced and a few areas redesigned.  Don't read anyhting into m to what they said.  We simply don't know.  The DFO world was vast, but some areas were popluated and others quite empty.

  • tom_goretom_gore TamperePosts: 1,796Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by BuniontToes

    Note:

    DFO1 was FAR more detailed than  any zone in WOW.  No comparison.

     

    Note:

    You must have been playing a different WoW than I have. Even if the gameplay in WoW is basic themepark garbage, the zones in that game are peerless in detail, atmosphere and diversity. Even more so with Cataclysm changes and new Pandaria zones.

    Frankly, adding flying mounts to WoW was the worst decision they ever made. The world they had so beautifully crafted was utterly wasted.

     

  • Imperator101Imperator101 Toronto, ONPosts: 131Member
    Even though DarkFall UW will probably be bigger then WoW and all it's expansions, I highly doubt they will beable to have the level of detail and diversity that WoW has in al its zones. Darkfall UW will have the typical Grasslands, Snow, Desert, Wasteland, Volcanic Wasteland terrain types that we have seen in most MMO's. WoW went beyond this and had very exotic and different looking zones then any MMO I have ever seen.

    image
  • SnoepieSnoepie RotterdamPosts: 470Member

    this thread is legit..

     

    comparing darkfall with world of warcraft..

     

    I do question the people on this site.. whenever a game brings something new or a new game is gonna be released it has always been wow this, wow that, compared to wow that.

     

    Poeple come with opinions.. which are later on gonna be facts..

    If you never played the game.. do some research first.. or try out the game in 10 days.

     

  • NiburuNiburu BerlinPosts: 378Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Impeator101

    So a list of things you can do in this game.

    1. Raid Dungeons deep underground or above ground areas for Epic PVE encounters with huge bosses that you need a group to fight, will it have this? 

    2. Questing, will the questing even have variety? 

    3. Exploring (any mmo you can do this)

    4. World PVP 

    5. Organised PVP offenses like assaulting the enemies citie/fortress

    6. Ship PVP battles

     

    Well those are all the things you can do in the game.

    1: Some dungeons have epic monsters some not, epic monsters means many hard mobs in one place or atleast a bigger "boss" mob. For the new dungeons they talked about traps and obstacles you need to overcome and different levels of the dungeon leading to a boss

     

    2: Tbh i don't know if classic quests are in( talk to npc, do this and that) but the new system basicly is an advanced GuildWars 2 Quest System. You move into an area (cave city whatever) and it suggests you stuff you can do depending on the skills you unlocked for you character. This can lead from kill mob X to craft several of this and that swords to discover the secret cave and more

    3: Its a huge world so you will have plenty to explore. Even after 3 years and heavy exploring there were still areas that i didnt really know

    4: World PvP, yes this is a huge aspect of darkfall

    5: villages can be capped and player cities are actually needed to live inside, so its not only "fluff2 like in GuilWars 2 for example in which ownership changes every hour. Ontop of that you got monoliths which i personally dont really like but it promotes PVP. Then you got the moongates, basicly portals in the wilderness who port you to other locations of the map, also an PVP hotspot

     

    6: Ship battles are in but in its basic form as we have seen in darkfall 1.0 i guess an upgrade will come to this and there is alpha footage form 2003 in which darkfall already had waves and wind so i guess it will be more complex

  • EyrothathEyrothath Phoenix, AZPosts: 198Member
    Only other game that has a world as good as Darkfall is Vanguard and that game has a lot of issues..
  • tom_goretom_gore TamperePosts: 1,796Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Snoepie

    this thread is legit..

     

    comparing darkfall with world of warcraft..

     

    I do question the people on this site.. whenever a game brings something new or a new game is gonna be released it has always been wow this, wow that, compared to wow that.

     

    Poeple come with opinions.. which are later on gonna be facts..

    If you never played the game.. do some research first.. or try out the game in 10 days.

     

    Dude,

    It was a Darkfall fanboi that started comparing Darkfall world detail to WoW, where we promptly flattened him and told that WoW has a lot more detail and effort put into the zones than Darkfall.

    No other comparison was made, as the game mechanics obviously are different.

     

  • BuniontToesBuniontToes Wayout, DEPosts: 529Member
    Originally posted by tom_gore
    Originally posted by Snoepie

    this thread is legit..

     

    comparing darkfall with world of warcraft..

     

    I do question the people on this site.. whenever a game brings something new or a new game is gonna be released it has always been wow this, wow that, compared to wow that.

     

    Poeple come with opinions.. which are later on gonna be facts..

    If you never played the game.. do some research first.. or try out the game in 10 days.

     

    Dude,

    It was a Darkfall fanboi that started comparing Darkfall world detail to WoW, where we promptly flattened him and told that WoW has a lot more detail and effort put into the zones than Darkfall.

    No other comparison was made, as the game mechanics obviously are different.

     

    Have you ever played darkfall? Have you ever exlored the world?  if you haven't then you have no basis for comnparison.

     

    The key issue with Darkfall is that there are so many amazing terrain and world that were empty.  They were designed as if somehting was meant to be there but nothing.  However the world, especcially on high setting had the most detail of any game I have played (including WoW).

     

    I will add that character graphics were not as  stunning as other games but DFO was intended for masses of players in one area.  The polygon count on the models greatly impacts performance when you have a thousand people fighting each other.

  • Imperator101Imperator101 Toronto, ONPosts: 131Member
    I really don't know about this game, if the combat is fun and there are huge epic battles then I will probably play it but the lore seems stale and the pve questing doesn't seem like it will be fun. I might just have to go back to WoW and I will if I don't like this game after it comes out.

    image
  • chryseschryses LondonPosts: 1,453Member Uncommon

    I know people have made comments about empty lands etc.  I think having vast empty spaces is needed for the lore/immersion factor.  I prefer games that are busy around hubs but if you want to wander off into the middle of no where then I should be alone or with just a few NPC's.  There is nothing more exciting than finding a great resource spot or rare NPC / dungeon that you can tell is hardly known.  Even more immersive is when you think you are alone and out of no where comes another player and you then worry about them being friend or foe.  EvE/jumpgate had this feeling as did Fallen Earth and to some degree Vanguard. IMO only.

     

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