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This is not F2P!!

Squal'ZellSqual'Zell Montreal, QCPosts: 1,803Member

yes the title was sort of a bait(but still kind of on topic). but bare with me. 

i have a legendary account (i pay my 15$/month to have access to the whole game with my 500SC monthly allowance. and this works for me just fine.)

the problems i see are that a free account are heavily penalized, but i do understand that they are a company and they need to make money somehow and force people to buy something from the cash shop, but this is going beyond to the point of having to almost force people into legendary. 

1500 is how much money a free account  can hold. (a full repair bill will cost you more than that at tier 2) and there is no way to enlarge your wallet size even with station cash. sure you can pay like 2,50$ widthdraw from your escrowed money, but remember you can't hold more than 1500

you may not trade or use the AH

and you can't use the DLC content (obviously)

 

now, if you purchase something 500 Station cash (about 5$ US). you get premium membership

your wallet grows!!! to a cap of 2000...

you can now trade items. but not money

so even if you have bought all 4 DLCs you are still heavily penalized

 

you can't earn station cash through the game. (at a slower and heavy grinding rate)

so what this does is that you cant keep players, (even paying ones) past a certain point. 

 

I see it all the time, People once they are done their Tier 1, starting their tier 2, start to see how much penalized they still are, even after purchasing a DLC and items from the cash shop, they quit and you dont see them again. 

my suggestions to have better player retention

increase the wallet cap with each DLC, where each DLC increases the wallet by 25k

with this now yuo can remove the AH and trading limitations. this will cause a better AH economics, bonds between legendary players and Free/Premium players who will offer themselves as raid sponsors, and pay for everyone's armor repair. creating bonds makes people stay and play longer.

add more styles and consumables to the cash shop,

 

TL;DR

game too penalized in free membership that forces players to go legendary (15$/month) or quit. most choose the later due to lack of benefits. suggestions, reduce the limitations when DLCs are purchased. 

 

 

 

 

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Comments

  • rdrakkenrdrakken Gotham, FLPosts: 426Member

    No pay trap has ever come close to the amount of money the big true F2P games like D&DO, Runes of Magic, Atlantica Online bring in.

    And its like that for a reason. If your game wasnt good enough to subscribe to, tricking people into it aint going to work...the game isnt good enough to pay for. Turbine will eventually make LOTRO a real F2P after at least a year of being pay trap when they see on paper that D&DO is still somehow making MORE money than it is...still cant believe they went the trap route when it has proven not to bring in near the same amount of money as good F2Ps do.

  • pierthpierth San Antonio, TXPosts: 1,503Member

    OP, can you access the servers and create a character for free? If yes, then it's free to play.

  • Z3R01Z3R01 NYC, NYPosts: 2,426Member

    Sony is shady.

    People pay a subscription to avoid the cash shop.

    People that pay for content piece by peice through the shop will pay more over time but not have to deal with a subscription.

    People who play for a free will get the base game with heavy restrictions.

    ^ this is how it should be.

     

    Sadly these bastards have people buying all this crap out of the Shop only to find out there are still Subscriber only features.

    It should be considered criminal.

    Playing:

    Waiting on:

  • Squal'ZellSqual'Zell Montreal, QCPosts: 1,803Member
    Originally posted by pierth

    OP, can you access the servers and create a character for free? If yes, then it's free to play.

    CLEARELY, you did not even read the first line.

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  • Squal'ZellSqual'Zell Montreal, QCPosts: 1,803Member
    Originally posted by Z3R01

    Sony is shady.

    People pay a subscription to avoid the cash shop.

    People that pay for content piece by peice through the shop will pay more over time but not have to deal with a subscription.

    People who play for a free will get the base game with heavy restrictions.

    ^ this is how it should be.

     

    Sadly these bastards have people buying all this crap out of the Shop only to find out there are still Subscriber only features.

    It should be considered criminal.

    hell even if you subscribe you still buy from the cash shop 500 SC per month allowance is pennies.

    if they had only styles i wouldnt mind as much

     

    oh and dont get me started on lockboxes. havent had a drop since i went legendary. random my ass...

     

     

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  • newbihacknewbihack Olympia, WAPosts: 36Member

    I just played Lotro as F2P and it turns out it is more like an extended demo, and after lvl30 you have to use the CS or just get VIP account. Clearly the F2P title is being used to make people to play their games, and I say stop feeding the trolls and let em die. meh every sucker who advertize for F2P game should be sued and jailed. They are all scammers and soon people will demand a law against digital market. and one more thing...

    When you see the F2P means demo nothing more than a garbage can waiting to be recycled.

  • evilastroevilastro EdinburghPosts: 4,270Member
    All of SoEs games have horrible F2P models. They are just greedy and most players can see that, which is why their games perform so poorly comparatively.
  • VesaviusVesavius BristolPosts: 7,645Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by evilastro
    All of SoEs games have horrible F2P models. They are just greedy and most players can see that, which is why their games perform so poorly comparatively.

     

     

    /sigh... you are right.

    This is why I cannot get excited about PS2, despite loving the first one for a few months at launch.

    The saddest thing is SOE cannot say a single thing to reassure me... the are just ther worst liars as a corperation in the industry. Worst then FC even.

  • wasim470wasim470 damasPosts: 243Member

    As long as the Content is Blocked unless you pay for it, the game is not free to play.

    that's a Fact.

    AOC = not free to play.

    LOTRO = not free to play.

    DCUO = not free to play.

    after seeing the kind of F2P these games are taking, am totally against it, it's not fair or Fun.

    while i did Buy AOC when it came and i played it for 2 years paying 15$ per month and the God slayer expansion, still when they went F2P they didn't even bother to give me extra points, i was treated like any guy who just created his account and paid them 0$.

    so i did quite.

    am totally with B2P now ( GW & GW2 ), i find it the most fair way and i don't think I’ll ever go for anything not B2P any more, even if i had to quite buying new MMOs.

     

     

     

  • 7star7star SeoulPosts: 405Member
    Originally posted by wasim470

    As long as the Content is Blocked unless you pay for it, the game is not free to play.

    that's a Fact.

    AOC = not free to play.

    LOTRO = not free to play.

    DCUO = not free to play.

    after seeing the kind of F2P these games are taking, am totally against it, it's not fair or Fun.

    while i did Buy AOC when it came and i played it for 2 years paying 15$ per month and the God slayer expansion, still when they went F2P they didn't even bother to give me extra points, i was treated like any guy who just created his account and paid them 0$.

    so i did quite.

    am totally with B2P now ( GW & GW2 ), i find it the most fair way and i don't think I’ll ever go for anything not B2P any more, even if i had to quite buying new MMOs.

     

     

     

    Haha~! One of the reason I don't like Funcom, besides customer service, is how I got screwed for buying AoC. I bought it and subbed to it for  almost a year. I live in Korea. When they signed a deal for it to be published in Korea, I could no longer download the English language client. They just told me I was S.O.L. I couldn't access my lvl 80 and all the time I put into it.

     

    I don't know what they could have done about it, but there attitude was "oh well, sucks to be you." I bought their game long before they made a Korean version. I was mad...LOL, so yeah, done with Funcom. I feel like such a tool when I think of all the time I put into leveling in villas when there wasn't enough content in their game.

     

    EDIT: I bought DCUO, too, when it was $60. That experience and AoC put me off of buying games by certain companies. That's why I won't preorder TSW.

  • PGHammer21PGHammer21 Accokeek, MDPosts: 18Member

    The only content that is blocked from non-payers is DLC.  Period.  Yes, you can purchase extra character slots; however, you do that with Station Cash (which you can earn in DCUO or any other SOE game; that was, in fact, how I've earned all the Station Cash I've accumulated).  What *you* likely are upset about (and I don't exactly blame you) is that what started out as a strictly-traditional MMO has gone to a F2P model.  Here's an example, based on exactly what I've done since I created my free DCUO account - because I was a DCUO free member, I got $SC500 at the one-year anniversary (this was something SOE gave to all DCUO members regardless of status); I had already earned $SC250 via other SOE promotions.  Note that I have spent no real money at this point.  Using my rewarded $SC750, I've made two purchases so far - one Promethium key (to open a lockbox boss drop) and (less than a week ago) I purchased an additional character slot for $SC500.  The unlocked drop was okay - however, the $SC500 was, in fact, a big win.  Here's what that single purchase did:  1.  Surprise the First - I also got four additional character slots (total of seven).  2.  Surprise the Second - I was also auto-upgraded to Premium status.  Note that I haven't spent a single real dollar in DCUO - or any SOE game.  It's not that I have no interest in the paid DLC - I do, in fact (specifically, the DLC packs "Lightning Strikes!"  and "The Battle for Earth") -- it's just that there are only a few places that have SOE game-time/Station Cash cards *in stock* in my immediate area.  (Each DLC pack is $SC999 - hence, the two DLC packs combined are $SC1998, or $USD20.00.  Again, this is a flat price - and not much different than paid DLC in any other game - MMO or not.)  In its own way, DCUO is no different than, say Guild Wars - Prophecies (which introduced me to the pay-once RPG model) except that it can indeed become pay-never through judicious use of promotions and various deals SOE-wide.

  • Squal'ZellSqual'Zell Montreal, QCPosts: 1,803Member
    Originally posted by PGHammer21

    The only content that is blocked from non-payers is DLC.  Period.  Yes, you can purchase extra character slots; however, you do that with Station Cash (which you can earn in DCUO or any other SOE game; that was, in fact, how I've earned all the Station Cash I've accumulated).  What *you* likely are upset about (and I don't exactly blame you) is that what started out as a strictly-traditional MMO has gone to a F2P model.  Here's an example, based on exactly what I've done since I created my free DCUO account - because I was a DCUO free member, I got $SC500 at the one-year anniversary (this was something SOE gave to all DCUO members regardless of status); I had already earned $SC250 via other SOE promotions.  Note that I have spent no real money at this point.  Using my rewarded $SC750, I've made two purchases so far - one Promethium key (to open a lockbox boss drop) and (less than a week ago) I purchased an additional character slot for $SC500.  The unlocked drop was okay - however, the $SC500 was, in fact, a big win.  Here's what that single purchase did:  1.  Surprise the First - I also got four additional character slots (total of seven).  2.  Surprise the Second - I was also auto-upgraded to Premium status.  Note that I haven't spent a single real dollar in DCUO - or any SOE game.  It's not that I have no interest in the paid DLC - I do, in fact (specifically, the DLC packs "Lightning Strikes!"  and "The Battle for Earth") -- it's just that there are only a few places that have SOE game-time/Station Cash cards *in stock* in my immediate area.  (Each DLC pack is $SC999 - hence, the two DLC packs combined are $SC1998, or $USD20.00.  Again, this is a flat price - and not much different than paid DLC in any other game - MMO or not.)  In its own way, DCUO is no different than, say Guild Wars - Prophecies (which introduced me to the pay-once RPG model) except that it can indeed become pay-never through judicious use of promotions and various deals SOE-wide.

    [station cash] "which you can earn in DCUO" nope you can't earn station cash in DCUO, and i dont play any other SOE game.

    4DLCs at 999 thats 3996 (40$)

    after that you are still limited to 

    2000$ in your account (P.S. my armor costs 1800$ to repair) so you say oh just keep trash on you so you can sell after each repair, ok sure

    your inventory and bank size are reduced so its hard to keep enough junk to refill your bank to 1800

    you can' t craft anything over tier 1 because the NPC modules cost more than 2000,

    you can't trade money either, only items.

    remember you have already paid 40$ and you still can't play at the game's full potential, so  you say ok at this point if i want to keep going i need to unlock my bank limit and inventory limit, so you decide to go legendary.

    15$/month now

    you are trying to get tier 3 gear... you have 3 raids in which you are locked out for 7 days after completion, and 1 alert.

    so you are paying 15$/month after paying 40$ to get the DLCs only to realize that you have not moved from the watchtower in the past 3 weeks just loging on to do a raid that takes about 1 hour to 1.5 hours. and your 45 minute alert.

    i can only do so much fortress of solitude and gotham courthouse before i realize that i can do better with my 15$.

     

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  • PGHammer21PGHammer21 Accokeek, MDPosts: 18Member

    I have zero interest in going Legendary (which then becomes a monthly bill, like any other traditional MMO); also, I'm not interested in all the DLC (no interest whatever in "The Last Laugh", DCUO's first PvP-based DLC, as I'm not into PvP much at all, and no interest in "Fight for the Light", DCUO's first DLC, as I'm more a fan of the Flash than Green Lantern); therefore, the situation you find yourself in does not apply to me.  I also pointed out that I don't exactly blame you, because you paid for a traditional MMO (as you stated, you go back before the changeover).  As it is, seven character slots are somewhat overkill (despite my doing something atypical for me and actually adding a *villain* character as well as another hero - using slots 4 and 5, respectively), and a lack of inventory slots (which was a manageable problem during my Free member days; I simply had to sell back to vendors things I couldn't use and had no plans ON using because they didn't fit any of my characters) has become a great big non-issue since I went Premium (I still keep only what makes sense in my as-needed on-person Inventory - stuff for Collections goes into the Bank or cross-character Shared Bank in the Watchtower (heroes) or Hall of Doom (villains) respectively).  I have two core play styles - as either a tank/controller or dual-pistol/dual-wielder; I flat-out suck as a healer (yes - I tried it as a Free player, and I realized I blow at it - which is why I no longer create healers).  However, the issues that you bring up don't apply to everyone - that's all I'm saying.

  • PGHammer21PGHammer21 Accokeek, MDPosts: 18Member

    Actually, you *can* earn Station Cash in DCUO, and in other SOE games, during themed events (such as Holiday events) - the only one I haven't played in since I joined was the Valentine's Day event.  DCUO isn't even the only F2P game for PC from SOE - Everquest II went F2P even earlier than DCUO.

  • PanthienPanthien ZaandamPosts: 559Member
    Originally posted by Squal'Zell
    Originally posted by pierth

    OP, can you access the servers and create a character for free? If yes, then it's free to play.

    CLEARELY, you did not even read the first line.

    And its REALLY easy to get around the money cap, you can avoid using it entirely.

    I dont think the money cap is at the right mark at all but then again personally I wouldnt complain for a service Im not paying for in the first place.

     

    Btw, dcuo lifetimer here and still happy I bought it.

  • BarCrowBarCrow Tampa, FLPosts: 2,212Member

     Not an mmo but still PWE's War inc: Battlezone. FPS is pretty fun but it seems you can't get a permanent weapon for less than hundreds of thousands of earned points. Fair enough...but scopes and other customization options you buy in real cash. Ok fine. Except they are only good for that ONE gun. Not even other versions of the  same model. E.g. A gray AK 47 or a blue Ak 47 will require separate customizations...not interchangeable. It's also pretty pricey for their gold coins/cash items. Ridiculous.

    Blacklight retribution is a little more fair b/c u can interchange parts for any gun . Its also way cheaper to buy permanent guns overall.

    Still..both fun games in which u can be competitive for a long time w/o a purchase as you frequently earn temp weapons based on achievements or just use the default weapons. When and if this changes at some higher level for either War inc. or BLR is nknown to me. I will say both games look pretty decent with BLR looking the best overall with DX11.

    After spending money (probably too much money) in both I decided to get the $99 bundle for BF3 on PC. Game..all exp (present and future)  plus some fluff...and the basic kits unlocked (because I already spent many hours on the Xbox 360 version and didnt want to earn the basic shit again..I just discovered I like FPS like these on PC better). NOw thats all I need pay. I will still play the other two from time to time though.

  • RedempRedemp Hot Springs, ARPosts: 1,042Member

     I just consider it like this .... I'm a subscriber, I've always had a sub to every MMO I have played. I detest F2P games and most of the community those games bring. SoE gives me the option to sub to their f2p games, and not only is everything unlocked ... but they reward me with SC. SoE penalizes those who want a F2P game, to me thats a good thing. SoE makes it more than obvious that the F2P customers are secondary citizens, so sub to the game. Sooner or later the market will finally drill it into  peoples heads that  the F2P model is absurd.

    Is SoE bad for doing this? Probably ...... but damn if I don't like watching F2P models burn.

  • PGHammer21PGHammer21 Accokeek, MDPosts: 18Member

    As I pointed out (and you ignored), there is a space between Free and Legendary - Premium.  To get there (from Free) you buy one character slot (which, depending on promotion, can be as little as $SC250, such as during the recent Summer SIzzle event) - and you also get four more for absolutely zero.  Not everyone has the funds to play a traditional MMO in the traditional (non-F2P) manner - the current poor economy drives that point home with a jackhammer.  I have nothing against the traditional MMO model (or even traditional MMOs); however, I have to give credit where credit is due - SoE *is* one of the better publishers in the mixed-membership MMO space (and they are, in fact, the only mixed-membership publisher to allow free players up to the level cap).  Your complaint about what it costs to repair top-tier armor - that is something that is an issue in every game that features armor; it's far from unique to DCUO.  (In fact, I ran into this with Diablo III, and that's an FPS, not an MMO; the same is true with Aion Online and Rift - both of which are MMOs; armor maintenance is not cheap - deal with it.)  I'm not being snarky - I am facing this exact issue right now due to a crossing point between the Oolong Island Alert (the next to last of the *classic* Alerts) and the Atlantean Invasion/Aquaman campaign - practically every hero that works his way up to the cap will face one or both (usually both); both Oolong Island (Androids and Metal Men) and the Atlantean/Aquaman campaign are very tough on armor.  How I deal with it - I drop back to Gorilla Island and the Moonbase (HIVE) Alerts to earn money to full-up repair my armor.  Also, both missions are nowhere as dangerous as either Oolong Island or the Aquaman campaign, in addition to being major cash cows.

  • EmeraqEmeraq Medical Lake, WAPosts: 927Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by rdrakken

    No pay trap has ever come close to the amount of money the big true F2P games like D&DO, Runes of Magic, Atlantica Online bring in.

    And its like that for a reason. If your game wasnt good enough to subscribe to, tricking people into it aint going to work...the game isnt good enough to pay for. Turbine will eventually make LOTRO a real F2P after at least a year of being pay trap when they see on paper that D&DO is still somehow making MORE money than it is...still cant believe they went the trap route when it has proven not to bring in near the same amount of money as good F2Ps do.

    You SHOULD have to pay for most of the content in LOTRO. All of the expansions, even after the F2P conversion have been paid expansions. So why do folks think that they shouldn't have to pay for that content? In addition, unless I'm mistaken when you buy the MoM expansion doesn't it open up any zones you didn't pay for up to and including MoM?

     

    And you do NOT get all of DDO free, you have to pay to unlock most of the content/adventures/quests whatever you call it.. And their expansion isn't free either.

  • rojoArcueidrojoArcueid hell, NJPosts: 6,778Member Uncommon

    DCUO F2P mode is the best F2P among SOEs freemium mmos (note i said among SOE mmos only)..

    i play for free because i dont support subscriptions. I have bought around $40 bucks in cash shop content since it went F2P so im a premium user. The only limitation that i actually dont like is the gold limit of 1k - 2k so i raised the limit to 10k a while ago that they had some sale going on.

    I think DCUO free limitations (except the cash cap) are much better than EQ2Xs limitations which were vomit inducing (dont remember if EQ2 went full f2p or still is hybrid)..

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  • AlsoHereAlsoHere TurkijePosts: 5Member
    Doesnt seem unfair to me, if you like it you will pay and be subscribed.
  • Calintz333Calintz333 BergenPosts: 1,189Member

    I honestly cannot fathom how some people who replied here would make the assertion that DCUO or most of Sony's so called "F2P" games are unfair in comparison to real F2P games. Call me crazy but through my many years of experience with mmos I have seen a lot of F2P games. Games like Atlantica, Sword 2, Rohan online, and Runes of Magic are all perfect examples of what many consider "F2P games". Unfortunately many people don't have the foresight to see what is beyond their noses. When you have a model that is entirely dependent on cash shop purchases, it will almost always be more expensive to compete and to remain significantly competitive in those games than in games like DCUO or other such mmos that are more of an "extended free trial". In games like DCUO the new player's who are not willing to pay will be restricted heavily in favor of a more balanced and fair overall gaming environment at the higher levels. I am sure that most people with significant experience in the end game content of an mmo understands that it is much better to pay $15/mo continuously rather than having to pay significantly more money  through microtransactions to compete at a higher level. It is this a across-the-board fee that keeps the game from becoming one of the many F2P mmos that require you to pay an enormous amount of money to compete. 

    Now, is it free to play? Maybe not quite in the definition that most people have of the term. However, it cannot be denied that in most situations games with this kind of model are in the end more balanced, less expensive for most of the "Core" player base, and much more content and update driven rather than "Cash shop sale" driven. If you truly despise this model of payment than I can only think of a handful of reasons why that would be the case. Either you dislike the mislabeling of the term "F2P" and the fact that it significantly limits you as you approach the higher levels of the game. In which case, I can't fault you to much. Or you are ignorant about the true cost of playing and competing in a real "F2P" game environment. You could also have a lot of money and want to get ahead by paying your way to the top...or you could be a person who simply doesn't want to spend a dime in playing mmos. Either way it is hard to make the case that games that have this payment model are in the long run more expensive and less balanced than completely F2P games with a 100% focus on revenue from their microtransactions. The game maybe mislabeled and may in the end try to force a subscription out of you, but that does not make it any less of a fair game for those who decide to invest serious time and effort into the game's content. True F2P mmos are a scam that try to nickle and dime you for more than the basic $15 fee ever will. I guarantee that if you were to make a comparison of the top say, Atlantica players vs. the top DCUO players those playing Atlantica would be spending significantly more money "or in some rare instances just time" than those playing DCUO. 

  • ThaneThane berlinPosts: 2,232Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Z3R01

    Sony is shady.

    People pay a subscription to avoid the cash shop.

    People that pay for content piece by peice through the shop will pay more over time but not have to deal with a subscription.

    People who play for a free will get the base game with heavy restrictions.

    ^ this is how it should be.

     

    Sadly these bastards have people buying all this crap out of the Shop only to find out there are still Subscriber only features.

    It should be considered criminal.

    and you sir should be concidered a troll.

    releasing a tripple a game without the intetion to make money? yea, sounds like every bigger company. totaly logical :)

     

     

    that's the reason why sony HAS money, and you don't ^^

    "I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"

  • Squal'ZellSqual'Zell Montreal, QCPosts: 1,803Member
    Originally posted by Thane
    Originally posted by Z3R01

    Sony is shady.

    People pay a subscription to avoid the cash shop.

    People that pay for content piece by peice through the shop will pay more over time but not have to deal with a subscription.

    People who play for a free will get the base game with heavy restrictions.

    ^ this is how it should be.

     

    Sadly these bastards have people buying all this crap out of the Shop only to find out there are still Subscriber only features.

    It should be considered criminal.

    and you sir should be concidered a troll.

    releasing a tripple a game without the intetion to make money? yea, sounds like every bigger company. totaly logical :)

     

     

    that's the reason why sony HAS money, and you don't ^^

    see there is a differene between

    paying for something or getting ripped off for something

    Coffee place #1, you pay 30$/month and you get 1 coffee per day (Subscription models)

    Coffee place #2, you pay 1,25 for each coffee you want (Normal FTP games)

    Coffee place #3, you pay 30$/month and you get the right to come into the store, then you have to pay 1,00 for each cup, and then you have to pay another 1$ for the coffee that goes in the cup. (this is SOE's model),

    it sounds ridiculous but if you want i can compare each point. with an ingame example.

    and that is what we are complaining about, not the fact that we have to pay on a so called FTP, game, we all know they are not free and companies are in it for the money. 

    its the fact that if you pay them money, the game is still unplayable. 

     

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  • AmarsirAmarsir Jersey City, NJPosts: 702Member

    I realize this is an old thread now. But anyone who thinks DCUO's model is a cash grab should go look at how SW:tOR has instituted their "free" transition. Then give Sony a big hug.

    DC's model is by far one of the best I've seen. Every level seems like good value. I was free for a bit, upgraded to premium, and after a few months now I've got all the DLCs and made a few extra purchases too. I took advantage of sales but have spent cash totalling to about $50. And I haven't gone Legendary at all yet, though I do think about it occasionally.

    It's a fair deal. If you absolutely refuse to pay, or if you insist on a "deeper" WoW-like MMO for your subscription money, then maybe it's not what you want. But I tried DC out with very minimal expectations and they've done a great job of upselling me. That's not easy to do, and I give them credit for it.

    Currently playing:
    DC Universe
    Planetside 2
    Magic Online
    Simunomics, the Massive Multiplayer Economic Simulation Game. Play for free.

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