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"Free"mium games are like...

TheScavengerTheScavenger Matrix, NYPosts: 911Member Uncommon

Seeing a car advertised on Craigslist that says "FREE CAR! Just stop by and take a look. Its free!"

 

You take your time to drive to where the guy is selling his free car. 

 

He then tells you "Free...except you have to pay for a new engine, a new transmission, new breaks and you have to replace the tires"

 

Sounds like the typical pay to play to "free"mium conversion.

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Comments

  • TorvalTorval Oregon CountryPosts: 7,197Member Uncommon

    Ooh, a car analogy.  Those always drive the point home.

    I'll take that over, "Pay me $15 for a look.  You can look for a month, but after that you can't."  Then you buy the car for $50, pay him $15 more for a months worth of driving, and then find out that if you don't buy the "freeway" xpac for another $60 all you get to do is drive in the parking lot.  Oh, and did I mention you only get a Yugo.  You can earn the "Ford Taurus skin by driving", but If you want the BMW skin then you can buy that for another $20 in their web-based showroom.  Oh, month is over, pony up more cash or all the money you've spent is down the drain.

    I would rather play the, "You can drive and use this for free.  If you want to buy some racing fuel then you get 15 gallons for $5."

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,643Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by TheScavenger

    Seeing a car advertised on Craigslist that says "FREE CAR! Just stop by and take a look. Its free!"

    You take your time to drive to where the guy is selling his free car. 

    He then tells you "Free...except you have to pay for a new engine, a new transmission, new breaks and you have to replace the tires"

    Sounds like the typical pay to play to "free"mium conversion.

    Necessity product vs entertainment service. But don't let any level of reality get in the way of your sense of entitlement.

     

    YOU ARE OWED, DAMMIT.

     

     

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • FrodoFraginsFrodoFragins Manchester, NHPosts: 2,926Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Arcondo87
    [mod edit]

    GW2 isn't freemium or F2P.  It's B2P.

  • TheScavengerTheScavenger Matrix, NYPosts: 911Member Uncommon

    If a game advertises its pay to play, I go in knowing I'm going to pay every month. If a game advertises its free, and I go in and see 90% of the features are subscribers only...then I'm gonna be pissed and feel lied to. However, if it advertises its free and I can earn currency to unlock features (planetside 2, LOTRO) than that is totally different mindset I'm going in with. 

     

    It is like people want free health care...except free health care sucks. HUGE waiting lines to get any surgery done in Canada and you get pushed back so much. And UK health care absolutely sucks, it has the same problem as Canada. Huge waiting lines and bad service. Yet people keep wanting free health care. Guess its better than nothing lol. 

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  • TheocritusTheocritus Gary, INPosts: 3,734Member Uncommon
         No one forces you to pay a cent in either freemium or f2p games.....Just because you have to have the newest and the best doesnt mean we all have to......Some of us settle for less and enjoy these games for little or nothing.
  • TheScavengerTheScavenger Matrix, NYPosts: 911Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Theocritus
         No one forces you to pay a cent in either freemium or f2p games.....Just because you have to have the newest and the best doesnt mean we all have to......Some of us settle for less and enjoy these games for little or nothing.

    ROFL...LOL...here is what you have to pay for in freemium games (except LOTRO/Planetside 2/Fallen Earth, that are truly free)

     

    Everquest 2

    Most of the classes you have to pay to unlock or subscribe

    Have to pay to unlock bag space

    Have to subscribe to use the rarest items

    Have to subscribe to unlock powerful spells/abilities (the levels, not the spell/ability themselves)

     

    SWTOR rare items are locked and a bunch of stuff is locked unless you pay

     

    Age of Conan

    Have to pay to unlock classes

    Have to pay to unlock bag space

    Subscribe to use rarest items...

     

    LOTRO, Planetside 2, Fallen Earth, and sort of Saga of Ryzom...all truly free. LOTRO you can grind to earn points to pay stuff. Planetside 2 is probably the most free of them all. Fallen Earth is on par with PS2, and Ryzom is free up to a certain point and some stuff is locked.

     

    Most freemiums don't actually WANT to be free, and have 90% of the features/content/items locked.

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  • TheScavengerTheScavenger Matrix, NYPosts: 911Member Uncommon

    EVE Online is probably the only true free to play game out there, out of the pay to play models. Granted, it takes time to get to that point...but go out to 0.0 space, kill stuff...within 5 days you'll have enough ISK for a 30 day time card. Then you never have to pay again.

     

    EVE Online...the true free to play model. That and Planetside 2.

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  • TorvalTorval Oregon CountryPosts: 7,197Member Uncommon
    "Free" in F2P means doesn't require a subscription to access game servers.  Nothing is free.  Nothing.  If nothing else it at least requires your time and resources.  Do we really have to define what "free" means every single thread?  P2P means requires a recurring subscription. B2P means requires an up front "box" cost but not a subscription.  MMO means massively multiplayer online where a lot of people can log onto the server at once in a persistant sort of world.  RPG means role playing game where a real person assumes the role of a character they invent.
  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    I wasn't a fan of f2p. But planetside 2 has converted me. That said if ps2 was a sub game it would still be my main mmo.
  • KiljaedenasKiljaedenas New Westminster, BCPosts: 468Member
    Originally posted by TheScavenger

    EVE Online is probably the only true free to play game out there, out of the pay to play models. Granted, it takes time to get to that point...but go out to 0.0 space, kill stuff...within 5 days you'll have enough ISK for a 30 day time card. Then you never have to pay again.

     

    EVE Online...the true free to play model. That and Planetside 2.

    Be careful stating this. Eve Online is not technically Free to Play. That PLEX you buy for your account was paid for with real money by someone else, so you're just shifting the cost of your account to another person. If all the PLEX's in the game suddenly went poof, you would have to pay.

    Where's the any key?

  • TheScavengerTheScavenger Matrix, NYPosts: 911Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by ShakyMo
    I wasn't a fan of f2p. But planetside 2 has converted me. That said if ps2 was a sub game it would still be my main mmo.

    Yeah, Planetside 2 does the free model really well. Same with EVE Online (just spend ISK to get a time card...ISK is very easy to get after 1-2 months of playing EVE)

     

    And to the poster, Torvaldr, that says nothing is free...

     

    Yeah... You pay MORE in a freemium model (due to everything you have to unlock) than you would a monthly subscription. Or at the very least, nearly the same amount.

     

    So you are right, Freemium's aren't free. They come at the price of paying more (or about the same) than a normal MMO subscription. Something we both agree on :) Thanks man. Good to know we are arguing for the same side.

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  • AeliousAelious Portland, ORPosts: 2,853Member Uncommon
    I think freemium with a sub option can be superior to strictly F2P or P2P. It's in the details.

    What is only offered in the CS?

    Can you gain CS items or sub status with enough play?

    I should mention that I'm taking quality of game into account here. The idea is that you get all the subs while giving them a world filled with more players even if they ate playing for free. Free players get to play a game that is typically higher quality and better taken care of.

    Everyone wins IMO
  • AeliousAelious Portland, ORPosts: 2,853Member Uncommon
    Paying more depends on the specific game and what CS items you're talking about.

    OP can you give an example of a freemium game that you pay more for in order to get needed items or unlocks?
  • LyvinsLyvins Brugge ( Bruges )Posts: 70Member

    i do lol at people saying Lotro is on par with PS2, Lotro is not even close to beeing a free to play game. its a free"mium" as the OP used in his title, it lets you play and then it throws the cash store in your face. ( not saying its a bad game )  but people have to know the difference between free to play and a freemium.

    Ps2 , lineage2, aion are imo great free to plays , lets face it who wouldn't  like to play free games ? free mium games aren't bad they are useing a different model, but i think that it should be illigal that companies like turbine, bioware, ... say their game is free to play. I played lotro for a long time, ( from launch) in my eyes lotro ripps people off. but thats each their opinion on it.

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  • TheScavengerTheScavenger Matrix, NYPosts: 911Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Aelious
    Paying more depends on the specific game and what CS items you're talking about.

    OP can you give an example of a freemium game that you pay more for in order to get needed items or unlocks?

    In SWTOR, most of the content is locked unless you pay to play. So its really about the same.

    Age of Conan you can pay for specific unlocks, which start adding up quite a bit. Not really the worst freemium though. A bit less maybe than the others, same if you want everything unlocked.

    Everquest 2 is most expensive. Have to either pay the normal 15 dollars, or nearly everything is locked. Can pay for specific unlocks (like AoC), but it ends up being WAY more than the monthly fee.

     

    Though...every game that has gone freemium seems to have died out. I almost never hear anything about LOTRO or AoC...hear more about EQ2 than any other freemium, but most people playing EQ2 are paying for it.

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  • AeliousAelious Portland, ORPosts: 2,853Member Uncommon
    Actually never mind, my brains not working well today :)

    PlanetSide 2, though I like the model of, has 1000 Cert items for 750SC. I'm not sure how long it would take a sub to get 1000 Cert points but unless it's two weeks there an example right there.
  • TheScavengerTheScavenger Matrix, NYPosts: 911Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Aelious
    Actually never mind, my brains not working well today :)

    PlanetSide 2, though I like the model of, has 1000 Cert items for 750SC. I'm not sure how long it would take a sub to get 1000 Cert points but unless it's two weeks there an example right there.

    With my lack of skill in PS2...an hour of playing gets me about 50 cert points. And I suck at the game, so got to take that into account. Assuming I get better and can actually learn to play properly...probably take 10-15 hours of playing to get 1000 cert points. At the rate I go, its about 20 hours of playing (if 50 certs an hour)

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  • fivorothfivoroth LondonPosts: 3,657Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by TheScavenger

    If a game advertises its pay to play, I go in knowing I'm going to pay every month. If a game advertises its free, and I go in and see 90% of the features are subscribers only...then I'm gonna be pissed and feel lied to. However, if it advertises its free and I can earn currency to unlock features (planetside 2, LOTRO) than that is totally different mindset I'm going in with. 

     

    It is like people want free health care...except free health care sucks. HUGE waiting lines to get any surgery done in Canada and you get pushed back so much. And UK health care absolutely sucks, it has the same problem as Canada. Huge waiting lines and bad service. Yet people keep wanting free health care. Guess its better than nothing lol. 

    Haha, you compared healthcare to MMOs. That's is soooooo not even remotely comparable. That is just brilliant.

    Anyways we have had these threads a trillion times. No you are not the first one to start this type of thread and your thread brings absolutely nothing new to the table except a random analogy which doesn't even make that much sense.

    The only payment model which I tolerate is GW2's model. I will not pay a sub ever again even if it is 1 cent. Yes, I am that cheap. Next thread?

    Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.

  • AeliousAelious Portland, ORPosts: 2,853Member Uncommon
    EQ2 is actually really cheap if you're silver sub (one time 5.00) and take advantage of double and triple SC weekends. One 15.00 Walmart card can get you 6000 SC (60.00 worth) and bag unlocks, for example are 150SC. Item unlocks are cheap as well though not needed until later on since crafted gear is more than enough.

    If you want to raid though you need to sub. Also, the bronze complelety free to play is pretty limited bag space wise. For the content EQ2 can get you of you like it enough to want to play spending the 5.00 for silver is recommended.
  • killion81killion81 A City, MIPosts: 985Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Torvaldr

    Ooh, a car analogy.  Those always drive the point home.

    I'll take that over, "Pay me $15 for a look.  You can look for a month, but after that you can't."  Then you buy the car for $50, pay him $15 more for a months worth of driving, and then find out that if you don't buy the "freeway" xpac for another $60 all you get to do is drive in the parking lot.  Oh, and did I mention you only get a Yugo.  You can earn the "Ford Taurus skin by driving", but If you want the BMW skin then you can buy that for another $20 in their web-based showroom.  Oh, month is over, pony up more cash or all the money you've spent is down the drain.

    I would rather play the, "You can drive and use this for free.  If you want to buy some racing fuel then you get 15 gallons for $5."

     

    Subscription MMOs are closer to a down payment + monthly lease cost, if you're going for a car analogy.  LOTS of people lease cars.

  • TorvalTorval Oregon CountryPosts: 7,197Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by TheScavenger
    Originally posted by ShakyMo
    I wasn't a fan of f2p. But planetside 2 has converted me. That said if ps2 was a sub game it would still be my main mmo.

    Yeah, Planetside 2 does the free model really well. Same with EVE Online (just spend ISK to get a time card...ISK is very easy to get after 1-2 months of playing EVE)

     

    And to the poster, Torvaldr, that says nothing is free...

     

    Yeah... You pay MORE in a freemium model (due to everything you have to unlock) than you would a monthly subscription. Or at the very least, nearly the same amount.

     

    So you are right, Freemium's aren't free. They come at the price of paying more (or about the same) than a normal MMO subscription. Something we both agree on :) Thanks man. Good to know we are arguing for the same side.

    I'm glad that you've seen the light that F2P and B2P can offer a better deal than P2P.

    Here is a an excerpt from a post I made earlier.  While I do contribute and pay for my F2P / B2P games, I have yet to spend more or have them cost me more.  Lineage is the only P2P game I've ever played that included it all for the monthly fee and had no other micro-transactions, sanctioned rmt, or account fees.

    QUOTED POST:

    I also have an upper limit on what I'm willing to spend on my hobby.  The funny thing is I have spent less on F2P / B2P games than any other subscription game yet.  I tend to spend between $40 - $100 per year on my F2P games and when I'm not spending money on them I can still enjoy them unlike my P2P games where I have to pony up more cash if I want to enjoy what I've already spent.

    Here are some examples:

    Lineage (P2P included everything - no other costs at all including xpacs): 3 years and $540.

    LotRO (pre-F2P): over approx 4 years, including SoA - Moria - Mirkwood, about $750 or so.  I remained subscribed for a while after F2P, but am not counting that.

    GW1: 3 xpacs + EoN + 4 character slots over the last 7 years (and I still play and login): $220.

    EQ2 pre-F2P: approx 1 year of subscribing (4 - 3 month stints over 2.5 years): $255

    EQ2 post "F2P": Played continuously since F2P with $45 in SC (tripple cash weekend from walmart ($5 bonus) - $150 worth of cash for $45).  I also subbed for 3 month after F2P because the game is gated behind a subscription (P2P = P2W) for $39. So in the last couple of years since F2P I've spent less than $100 of which nearly half was sub fees.

    GW2: $60 over the last three months.

    STO: Zero dollars zero cents.  I will spend $50 on zen for this game when I reach a slightly higher level.

    RIFT: $335 over the last 19 months (my game time is good until 24 months) including both CE upgrades.  So $335 over 2 years of which my last few months is wasted and gated unless i pay $40 more.

    Neverwinter:  I am interested in supporting this game development so I will buy a $50 pack or purchase early on.

    Pay to play, which also heavily incorporates "P2W" and gating content with digital upgrade purchases, has not been the best bang for my buck.  I can afford to spend the money, but it's not worth the cost to me for what is delivered.  The only sub game on that list that was worth the monthly fee was Lineage as the cost actually included everything and the game was deep and engaging.  Content churn mmos aren't worth a sub fee to me.

    The bottom line is all my F2P and B2P games don't require additonal fees for me to keep playing at all.  The money I spend on them is still useful even if I don't spend more.  All of my P2P only games require me to spend more to continue enjoying what I've already spent on them.

  • TorvalTorval Oregon CountryPosts: 7,197Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by killion81
    Originally posted by Torvaldr

    Ooh, a car analogy.  Those always drive the point home.

    I'll take that over, "Pay me $15 for a look.  You can look for a month, but after that you can't."  Then you buy the car for $50, pay him $15 more for a months worth of driving, and then find out that if you don't buy the "freeway" xpac for another $60 all you get to do is drive in the parking lot.  Oh, and did I mention you only get a Yugo.  You can earn the "Ford Taurus skin by driving", but If you want the BMW skin then you can buy that for another $20 in their web-based showroom.  Oh, month is over, pony up more cash or all the money you've spent is down the drain.

    I would rather play the, "You can drive and use this for free.  If you want to buy some racing fuel then you get 15 gallons for $5."

    Subscription MMOs are closer to a down payment + monthly lease cost, if you're going for a car analogy.  LOTS of people lease cars.

    Hahaha, yeah I know.  Analogies are generally bad, but car analogies are nearly irresistible.  When I used to post on Slashdot a lot there was a poster there called "BadAnalogyGuy".  He had *the* most awesome horrible analogies for nearly everything.  I loved it.

  • fenistilfenistil GliwicePosts: 3,005Member
    I am not gonna to play freemium game ever again because I don't get most important benefits in my personal rating of paying subsciption in those games and I get all downsides of f2p games.
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