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Everquest Next: sandbox mmo

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  • OmnifishOmnifish LondonPosts: 616Member
    Originally posted by Neanderthal

    I have to call bullshit on Smed.  To me that sounds like a lot of intentionally misleading hype.  At first it sounds like they are really going to make an effort to make a good sandbox game but then if you look a little closer you realize that---oh yeah---not so much sandbox after all.

    The first clue was when he referred to is as "sandbox style".  By adding that little modifier there, the word "style", he was covering his arse so he can't be called a lier later.  Basically what this tells you is that it won't really be a sandbox game but rather it will be a typical sort of game with some elements which could concievably be labeled sandbox elements.

    He also says, " I'm not saying we're going to a big skill-based system."  Which is just another way of saying it's still going to be a level based game.

    Ok, then when talking about raiding he says, "We absolutely need to build that style of content into every game we make..."  So, yeah, more of the same.

    Alright so what do we learn when we look closely at his comments?  We learn that he's planning to make a level based game with end-game raiding.  Well golly gee I never heard of something like that before!

    Yes, he also talks about better AI and a dynamic world but, come on.  The game will be shaped by the fact that it's level based and raid based.  Those two basic facts will dictate what the game will be and they pretty much make a sandbox game impossible.  Ok, say a raid guild kills dragon X.  Dragon X stays dead.  Instead of dragon X respawning there will be something else like < Mountian Giant Y>  or whatever.  Maybe this is generated somewhat randomly.  Well ok, now they can say that their world is "dynamic".  But really it's just the same ol' thing in a different graphical package.

    And if you think I'm clueless that's fine, but really, does anyone have any faith left in SOE or Smedley?

    To answer your question nope, none at all, but people on here are suckers for a , 'supposed', MMO savior, (all previous sins are forgiven when you overhype your next game).

    While anyone can poke holes in grandoise talking and how Smed sounds just like Mythic before WAR, or ANET before GW2, I think it's best to wait and see what they have to show before we can really say anything positive/negative.

    Personally I don't have any faith in SOE, or Smed, and it's a bad idea to start hyping something and then say, 'oh we'll have footage next year', (so whats the point in mentioning it, without anything to show? People will just forget about it). However in this case I'd happily be proven wrong if they have something worthwhile brewing...

    This looks like a job for....The Riviera Kid!

  • BoognisheBoognishe Fort Myers, FLPosts: 83Member
    Originally posted by Seeker728

    Interesting thread, many thanks to Nadia for posting it.

    I am admittedly skeptical because of past failures on SOE's part. I agree with another poster who said they already revealed that raids are present and we all know the rinse-repeat gameplay that entails, tossing in the word "Sandbox" only obfuscates the matter.  For Smed to have any sort of credibility in the use of the word, he has to first define what he means when using it within the context of his project.  He's unwilling to do that because like any politician on the campaign trail, history and unfolding truths boxes him in and may cost him (and his masters) the election.

    While we can debate the subtlties of the terms "themepark" and "sandbox", and what constitutes the "correct" use of the word in question, they are polar opposites in philosophy.  Defining what I understand as the core principles of those two philosophies in abbreviated/simplified terms are;

    • Themepark Dev's create the encounter, scripted with If-Then Do sequences that players are expected to know and respond appropriately to and create the most desired rewards in the game for successfully completing the encounter, with repeated completion of said scripted encounter being both required and considered "the real game".  
    • Sandbox the players are given tools to create their own content, rewards, and conflicts, meaning there must by default be PvP (though how it is presented, what forms it takes and any consequences are beyond the confines of this post to get into).  Devs participate by throwing events at them that threaten the status quo of all that content the players have generated and it is by necessity, open world in nature (meaning no instancing of any sort).
    Build me a world where if I'm a outlaw, I become hunted by bounty seekers, if I'm a lord who clears a region to develop a holding and must defend it from monster and rival lords alike, where I can discover new spells, rituals, alchemy formulas and pursue forgotten lore to restore ancient powers to my use.  In such a place  I can assassinate key political figures and cause disturbances by that fact, a dragon can rampage and destory crops or be a (dangerous) ally, where gods answer prayers and demand appropriate sacrifices.  Sometimes invasions of a unrelenting foe threatens factions that have been locked in conflict for generations and they have to agree to work together for a time, all the while looking out for a opportunity to emerge stronger than their ally of the moment will.  
     
    A game where the term "class" is but a loose definition of what you can expect of my abilities that have grown based upon what I choose them to be, all that and more, can be done in sandbox if the tools are there.   Build a world like that and it'll endure game engine updates and people will subscribe to it for life.  And yes, it can have quests, even "basic" ones for that is in fact, how our lives progress.  We quest for that degree, job, mate, car, trophy, etc, but how we fail is as important as how we succeed, so far, no game has addressed that beyond not getting the goodies.
     
    All of that requires the game to have a very deep and bug free design at launch, with a vast wealth of tools to give to players and a aggressive response mechanism to deal with bugs and any other game breaking flaws, not the least of which is coping with in game currency sellers. The world has to be very robust with a depth necessary to support all of that and that is exceptionally expensive.  While its true SOE has a great wealth of resources and could indeed, do all of that, their history has shown repeatedly they are unwilling to do that.  I may not regard Smed with much in the way of respect because of his politician persona, but to be fair, he can't deliver on anything if he doesn't get the funding to do it, and SOE is notoriously tight fisted.
     
    Admittedly Nadia has succeeded in getting me to watch this development, but I regard it with a lot of skepticism because of the actors involved.  In short, SOE would have to prove to me that the tiger has changed its stripes.
     

    Nice post!

  • xAPOCxxAPOCx Vineland, NJPosts: 869Member
    Originally posted by Daddydazzle

    am i just lost, or is there no actual place holder for EQ Next on mmorpg.com game list yet?

    i've checked through the game list, but didn't see it. i'm pretty tired and not throwing out the idea that i may have just missed it.

    i see eq and eq2. is it just too early to make a sub section for it?

    http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/369033/page/1

    Questions been asked and theres the thread that expains why there isent one yet.

    http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/160807/Game-missing-from-our-game-list.html

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  • RimmersmanRimmersman MonacoPosts: 885Member

    I'm 99% sure that EQNext will not have PVP at it's forefront, no way in hell is EQNext going to be built around PVP. Yes we will get an updated PVP system but make no mistake that EQNext will be a PVE game at it's core.

    On top of that people should not take Smed use of the sandbox word as literal , EQNext will be a hybrid MMO IMO.

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  • ForumPvPForumPvP KingstownPosts: 871Member
    Originally posted by Rimmersman

    I'm 99% sure that EQNext will not have PVP at it's forefront, no way in hell is EQNext going to be built around PVP. Yes we will get an updated PVP system but make no mistake that EQNext will be a PVE game at it's core.

    On top of that people should not take Smed use of the sandbox word as literal , EQNext will be a hybrid MMO IMO.

    The difference in WoW between PvE servers and PvP servers,nothing much,its just possible to attack other players in PvP servers.

    Now lets try this on GW2 ,which is pure PvE game,it would make it even better PvP game than WoW,because theres no factions,game doesnt tell you anymore that theres this red guy,he might attack you and you should attack him or there is this friendly guy,he wont attack you because he cant.

    Of course lots of new rules is needed but it would be much more exciting and interesting because there is no predefined fighting partners.

     

    The more they have PvE content in EQN the better,its something that DF1 lacked quite a bit.

    Let's internet

  • xAPOCxxAPOCx Vineland, NJPosts: 869Member
    Please keep the updated info coming Nadia!

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  • RimmersmanRimmersman MonacoPosts: 885Member
    Originally posted by Nadia

    latest info pertaining to EQNext

    http://eq2wire.com/2012/12/14/eqnext-smedley-on-six-month-roadmaps-starting-over/

    Yeah i read that the other day lol, if their reaction are anything to go by then we are in for a treat, until then it's Age Of Wushu for me.

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  • Seeker728Seeker728 Las Vegas, NVPosts: 179Member
    Nice update Nadia, thanks for the link.  Not to sour the thanks but I remain cautious towards SOE, trust has to be earned especially after its been abused for so many years, and the proof as always is in what is done, not what is said.

    Even peace may be purchased at too high a price, and the only time you are completely safe is when you lie in the grave.

  • NadiaNadia Canonsburg, PAPosts: 11,866Member Common
    Originally posted by Seeker728
     I remain cautious towards SOE

    I like SOE games but i agree with you

     

    more related info

    http://www.polygon.com/2012/12/18/3777814/planetside-2-is-just-the-start-of-sony-online-entertainments-free

    "Our opinion is that today's MMOs, and I'd include ours in that mix, are stagnant and stuck in this model that we frankly helped create with EverQuest, where we put new content in the game, and they go through it at an incredibly fast rate because of sites like Thottbot and that kind of stuff," Smedley said.

    "We need to change the way we do this," Smedley said. "We're building a sandbox and giving players the tools to help shape the world that they're in. That's the direction we're going we're going in with EverQuest Next; trying to make a world that players create while being a living, breathing world around them.

    It's not just a prop for them to walk around in, which is really what all of today's MMOs are. Their worlds are nothing more than a movie set."

  • Seeker728Seeker728 Las Vegas, NVPosts: 179Member

     

    "Our opinion is that today's MMOs, and I'd include ours in that mix, are stagnant and stuck in this model that we frankly helped create with EverQuest, where we put new content in the game, and they go through it at an incredibly fast rate because of sites like Thottbot and that kind of stuff," Smedley said.

    "We need to change the way we do this," Smedley said. "We're building a sandbox and giving players the tools to help shape the world that they're in. That's the direction we're going we're going in with EverQuest Next; trying to make a world that players create while being a living, breathing world around them.

    It's not just a prop for them to walk around in, which is really what all of today's MMOs are. Their worlds are nothing more than a movie set."

    That's a very interesting quote on his part, if he lives up to it I might very well have a new and long term addiction, especially as he summed up exactly what's going on with his last line.  Again thanks for the post, you're managing to chip at the jade force field surrounding my cynical mind image

    Even peace may be purchased at too high a price, and the only time you are completely safe is when you lie in the grave.

  • baphametbaphamet omaha, NEPosts: 2,838Member Uncommon

    man, i cant wait until more info comes out for this game. :)

  • LokeroLokero Posts: 374Member Uncommon
    Is anyone else creeped out by the fact that Smedley actually sounds like the most "in-touch" guy in the development world these days?  I'm thinking some aliens came and replaced him with a duplicate because that sure isn't the Smedley I remember from years past.
  • VesaviusVesavius BristolPosts: 7,643Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Lokero
    Is anyone else creeped out by the fact that Smedley actually sounds like the most "in-touch" guy in the development world these days?  I'm thinking some aliens came and replaced him with a duplicate because that sure isn't the Smedley I remember from years past.

     

    Well, yeah lol, it is a bit worrying... but then I remember that what Semd says today has no relevance to the reality of tommorow...

    That said, SOE I think have learnt a ton of lessons from the ongoing evolution of EQ2 throughout it's life and seem to want to create a game that builds on the best of that title while still offering a different enough play experience that the two (three!) games can co-exist so I am keeping an open mind for now.

    I am still a little worried that this will go down the road of social media and farmville and whatever, rather then being the old school sandbox thing so many want.

    We shall see.

  • TechnohicTechnohic Ashland, OHPosts: 148Member
    Originally posted by Lokero
    Is anyone else creeped out by the fact that Smedley actually sounds like the most "in-touch" guy in the development world these days?  I'm thinking some aliens came and replaced him with a duplicate because that sure isn't the Smedley I remember from years past.

    I was a bit surprised by this.  Especially when he tried to poor concrete in the sandbox known as SWG  I only hold to hope that some people learn and can redeem themselves.

  • Crunchy222Crunchy222 new york, ILPosts: 386Member

    I have to pause for a moment as ive just read a fair portion of this thread dating back quite some time.

    The talk about sandbox and PS2 was really good, because...well...it seems he might not know what a sandbox really is for one...and also talk about PS2 having sandbox elements turned out to be 100% bogus.

    Yeah they might get that base building resource continent in eventually to PS2...wont make the game any bit a sandbox because one of the attactions in the game would fit into a sandbox world/game.  

    Thats the issue.  Sandbox is the world, not the game, not the elements inside the game.  Its the foundation.

    It seems a lot of developers have picked up on sandbox as the next "innovative" and "groundbreaking" as for their buzzwords.  We will now see sandbox as the description for themepark rides, just because they are not scripted as usual...

     

    Again, sandbox is the world and foundation of the game, not a part of the puzzle you can call sandbox.

     

    Oh, also, if Ps2 is an indication.  Not only will the game be further simplified compared to its predecessor, with a focus based more in easy access action and less focus on thought and strategy....

     

    Forgelight is going to do some aweful things to this game.  If im not mistaken it was used in EQ2, which had horrendous preformance issues due to being CPU dependant and single core use of the CPU...  PS2 has had aweful preformance, because its CPU choked, and doesnt utilize your GPU and all cores efficiantly.  Calling it right now, a terrible preforming game due to the Forgelight game engine.  If i were sony i would stop bragging about a game engine that every time its used produces a sub par game experience in iteself, which imo, is the complete opposite of what a good engine should do.

     

    Ill keep a bit of interest in this.  Part of me knows the games going to be a themepark, with a skyrim style "i can influence stuff" gimmick and something for endgame that might fit into a sandbox game.  Its still going to be a themepark, but the same old is just going to be presented in a different manner, probably more in tune to what GW2 did as far as pulling the wool over the eyes style.

     

  • QeynoseybdoogQeynoseybdoog LondonistanPosts: 1Member

    I had to laugh once again and hopefully for the last time.... nothing new sony, and back to EQEmu!.

     

    PS: EQ was the last true MMORPG untill luclin. No other online game come even close to a true MMORPG.

     

    If I had not bought VG, EQ2 and even WoW then there is something wrong with these franchies that only understand greed for profit$.

     

    A wise man once said.. trust no one in ny material worlds for tis is only a game.

  • ignore_meignore_me Apple Valley, CAPosts: 1,987Member
    Originally posted by Crunchy222

    I have to pause for a moment as ive just read a fair portion of this thread dating back quite some time.

    The talk about sandbox and PS2 was really good, because...well...it seems he might not know what a sandbox really is for one...and also talk about PS2 having sandbox elements turned out to be 100% bogus.

    Yeah they might get that base building resource continent in eventually to PS2...wont make the game any bit a sandbox because one of the attactions in the game would fit into a sandbox world/game.  

    Thats the issue.  Sandbox is the world, not the game, not the elements inside the game.  Its the foundation.

    It seems a lot of developers have picked up on sandbox as the next "innovative" and "groundbreaking" as for their buzzwords.  We will now see sandbox as the description for themepark rides, just because they are not scripted as usual...

     

    Again, sandbox is the world and foundation of the game, not a part of the puzzle you can call sandbox.

     

    Oh, also, if Ps2 is an indication.  Not only will the game be further simplified compared to its predecessor, with a focus based more in easy access action and less focus on thought and strategy....

     

    Forgelight is going to do some aweful things to this game.  If im not mistaken it was used in EQ2, which had horrendous preformance issues due to being CPU dependant and single core use of the CPU...  PS2 has had aweful preformance, because its CPU choked, and doesnt utilize your GPU and all cores efficiantly.  Calling it right now, a terrible preforming game due to the Forgelight game engine.  If i were sony i would stop bragging about a game engine that every time its used produces a sub par game experience in iteself, which imo, is the complete opposite of what a good engine should do.

     

    Ill keep a bit of interest in this.  Part of me knows the games going to be a themepark, with a skyrim style "i can influence stuff" gimmick and something for endgame that might fit into a sandbox game.  Its still going to be a themepark, but the same old is just going to be presented in a different manner, probably more in tune to what GW2 did as far as pulling the wool over the eyes style.

     

    unfortunately we are in a time of The Best of the Worst. Everything you have said may turn out to be true, but using the example of Planetside 2, it is simpler and more actoin oriented versus thought but I am having fun playing it compared to the other games out at the moment. I agree that it is prudent to be wary, but not overly pessimistic.

    Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011

  • NadiaNadia Canonsburg, PAPosts: 11,866Member Common


    http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/184805/MMO_devs_will_lose_the_fight_against_content_churn_says_SOEs_Smedley.php#.UQGgaPL2_6g

    "Players will get their hands on an actual release version of what we're doing late [this] year - and I don't mean a beta," says Smedley.

     

    EQNext releasing in 2013 ?

  • erictlewiserictlewis Cottondale, ALPosts: 3,026Member Uncommon

    I will believe it when I see it.  All I know is that Rothgar and a few of the best devs were pulled from EQ2 to go work on this.  I know they had to retool 2 times.  I know the concept art we saw 2 years back at fanfair is invalid now.  I will believe statements from smedly when they start sending out beta invites.  Meanwhile Im still playing eq2,   I have hopes for eqnext but really it taken them the past 5 years and we literly have nothing to show for the effort. 

     

     

  • NadiaNadia Canonsburg, PAPosts: 11,866Member Common
    Originally posted by erictlewis

       I have hopes for eqnext but really it taken them the past 5 years and we literly have nothing to show for the effort. 

    its been 3 years I believe - EQ3 was first mentioned at 10th year anniversary in 2009

     

    Blizzard Titan is in a similar boat, mentioning a new mmo in 2007

    http://www.wired.com/gamelife/2007/12/blizzard-rep-co/

    - no news beyond playable inhouse

  • DeaconXDeaconX Toronto, ONPosts: 3,067Member
    Definitely watching EQ Next closely... it's sounding like a lot of what I've been saying/hoping for in an MMO for a very long time now.

    image

    Why do I write, create, fantasize, dream and daydream about other worlds? Because I hate what humanity does with this one.

    BOYCOTTING EA / ORIGIN going forward.

  • AeonbladesAeonblades Home, GAPosts: 2,083Member
    I have high hopes, I think they learned from EQ1 and 2 what works and doesn't work, Hopefully will be something I can play for a decade like EQ1 is for me now  :)

    Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
    Have played: You name it
    If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.

  • NadiaNadia Canonsburg, PAPosts: 11,866Member Common

    SOE Live 2013 @ Planet Hollywood August 1-4

    http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/02/02/soe-live-scheduled-for-august-planet-hollywood/

     

    I assume we will be seeing some version of EQ3 in late summer :)

  • erictlewiserictlewis Cottondale, ALPosts: 3,026Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Nadia

    SOE Live 2013 @ Planet Hollywood August 1-4

    http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/02/02/soe-live-scheduled-for-august-planet-hollywood/

     

    I assume we will be seeing some version of EQ3 in late summer :)

    Well It is still in Las Vegas so I still will not be able to go.  I wish they would swap it up, one year east coast one year west coast.  I not been sind 2006 when they had it in atlanta. 

    All I know is that I am glad they moved it from October, at least this year I might be able to go if I get good prices on tickets to fly the family. 

    I am also glad they moved hotels, I knew several folks who had major issues with their reservations at Ballies. 

     

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