Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Fuzzy Avatars Solved! Please re-upload your avatar if it was fuzzy!

No Luv for the healers?

2

Comments

  • IselinIselin Vancouver, BCPosts: 5,609Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Neo_Liberty
    if it fits within the lore its real.... if you can show me an ip with instant perfect health than it is viable.

     

    edit: gameplay and systems were included.. i mentioned the lack of a healer and the lack of the trinity system was insinuated.

    Oh give me a break... If I can suspend disbelief for shooting fire out of my fingers (a controversial topic in Lord of the Rings Online, by the way) I can sure as hell do it for healing.

     

    IPs? EQ, WOW, DAoC, Dungeons and Dragons... or does it have to be in print or made by Hollywood for your definition of IP? image

  • Neo_LibertyNeo_Liberty Lufkin, TXPosts: 429Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Iselin
    was insinuated.

    Oh give me a break... If I can suspend disbelief for shooting fire out of my fingers (a controversial topic in Lord of the Rings Online, by the way) I can sure as hell do it for healing.

     

    IPs? EQ, WOW, DAoC, Dungeons and Dragons... or does it have to be in print or made by Hollywood for your definition of IP? image

    I don't disagree with you. the point is everyone has different tastes. gw2 is amazing for those who like realistic combat. if you don't and prefer the trinity.. play those... I would say the same to those who say instancing and zoning ruins games.. a lot of ppl can easily overlook such things.. I personally believe that healerless games are more immersive and realistic... it forces u to adjust and learn how to play... I've played many trinity games and honestly.. its boring to me.

     

    Well, i meant print or movie... its easy enough for someone to make up their own original... but even then.. does everquest have books or movies? wow have books or movies? if any of those ips have books or movies does the combat work the same as the games? if not.. its not realistic.

     

    edit: for the record boss combat is pointless... unless u can use mechanics such as climbing and knocking the boss down... to me more epic combat would be increasing the number of mobs that the group has to deal with.. otherwise it would  be too unrealistic for me.  the best example of this is the kingdom under fire 2 videos... battle scale combat involving pve... that was amazing.

    image
  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Sioux City, IAPosts: 3,828Member


    Originally posted by bossalinie
    I'll pass. Playing the staring game with health bars doesn't get my rocks off. Not to say healing is bad, but yeah...
    yea... staring at a mobs health bar is soooooo much more interesting.

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR

  • FreezzoFreezzo EnschedePosts: 235Member

    I haven't read the replies aside from the first few, but I must say there's been some progression towards healing and getting away from the mana bars. This has been done in SWTOR and it has been done very well.

    Take bounty hunter healing (mercenary advanced class), the trooper being the Republic counterpart (which uses an ammo mechanic). The Bounty Hunter uses a heat mechanic: The more skills you use, to hotter your suit gets. Cooldown (lowering the heat) goes in tiers, where the lowest tier has the most cooldown rate. This opens up several options: Use skills patiently and reactively (or pre-emptively) and keep your heat low OR 'Oh !@#$'-situations and you'll have to use some cooldowns to push your heat down immediately. This also is great with dps and tanking, but I found it the most interesting as a healer.

    The Trooper uses the ammo, as mentioned above. "The resource for their abilities is Ammo which recharges at a rate based off how much ammo is currently in your weapon (3/4 ammo recharges 75% speed, half =50% speed, etc) and can be quickly recharged with the ability Fast Reload." I haven't played the trooper myself yet above lv25, so can't really comment on healing awesomeness later on.

    The Imperial Agent (Operative Advanced Class)/Smuggler (Scoundrel Advanced Class) uses Energy, which is a pretty well-known mechanic, but not very often used for healers. This goes coupled with quite a heavy HoT focus. The IA also uses the less energy is less regen rate idea.

    Jedi Consulars and Sith Assassin healers basically use a well-know mana-like healing system.

    "We need men who can dream of things that never were." - John F. Kennedy
    And for MMORPGs ever so true...

  • IselinIselin Vancouver, BCPosts: 5,609Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Neo_Liberty
    Originally posted by Iselin
    was insinuated.

    Oh give me a break... If I can suspend disbelief for shooting fire out of my fingers (a controversial topic in Lord of the Rings Online, by the way) I can sure as hell do it for healing.

     

    IPs? EQ, WOW, DAoC, Dungeons and Dragons... or does it have to be in print or made by Hollywood for your definition of IP? image

    I don't disagree with you. the point is everyone has different tastes. gw2 is amazing for those who like realistic combat. if you don't and prefer the trinity.. play those... I would say the same to those who say instancing and zoning ruins games.. a lot of ppl can easily overlook such things.. I personally believe that healerless games are more immersive and realistic... it forces u to adjust and learn how to play... I've played many trinity games and honestly.. its boring to me.

     

    Well, i meant print or movie... its easy enough for someone to make up their own original... but even then.. does everquest have books or movies? wow have books or movies? if any of those ips have books or movies does the combat work the same as the games? if not.. its not realistic.

    I play GW2 and like it a lot. I did mention that it's the best attempt to replace the trinity in a game I have played. It's just not quite there as a viable permanent replacement. It's a very good try but it has its weaknesses as I pointed out.

     

    In the open world and most dynamic events it works well... just not so much for those critters that can demolish you in a couple of hits: the casual procced heals and heal abilities are just too weak and the powerful self heal talents are on long cooldowns.

     

    But it's a very tough thing to balance: Make it so you can survive a fight with a champion with some effort and the rest of the content is trivialized. It's balanced for the bulk of the game but there are many fights that still could use a powerfull healer.

  • waynejr2waynejr2 West Toluca Lake, CAPosts: 4,473Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Neo_Liberty
    Originally posted by Iselin

    Dissing the traditional tank and spank is all the rage today. All the cool kids hate it. The trinity system has been around for a long time since it replaced the "quad" when a specialized CC'er/buffer was also required. It must be time for a change right? "New" is better don'tyaknow.

     

    The problem is that no one has really come up with a viable replacement for the trinity yet. Sure a lot have tried with more or less success. The best of those I have played so far being GW2. But even GW2 with everyone having the ability (more or less... "tanky" and "healy" builds do exist) to tank, heal and DPS has its problems.

     

    A lot of the tougher fights in GW2 with champs, world bosses and in dungeons boils down to a risky game of aggro-pong with no class being able to withstand the full undivided attention of a tough mob for more than a few seconds... some better than others but even the heavy-armored classes will eventually have to start kiting the champion mob around like scared little girls while a train follows them both beating at it with mostly low damage abilities. GW2 jack-of-all-trades, AOE-happy classes excel at dealing with hordes of weak mobs but they sort of fall appart in the really tough boss encounters... and people die... a lot. Combat rezzing is a must so everyone has it. They've even spent soem extra time programming a "nearly dead" down state to make the whole self or other "rezzing" thing more fun... might as well since it's a big part of the game.

     

    Other games like Rift with multiple specs and even WOW with its dual specs maintain the trinity but they give you multiple specs so that each class can do at least 2 of the 3 roles. This pressumably helps with forming groups, but in actual practice most will just play their favorite role anyway. The secret world goes that one better by making everyone able to be any of the 3 with their classless skill wheel... no hiding on that one. But I still hear a lot of excuses there about being good at just one of the roles.

     

    So yeah you healers wiling to step-up, take responsibility and put up with all the finger pointing... until someone comes up with a much better system where you're really not needed you have my respect.

     

    /salute.

    I think you miss the point.. classless roles are there for a reason... its more "realistic" no medical technician has the ability in real life or fantasy  to make someone completely healthy in like ten seconds while in combat... combat is boring and requires little movement or maneuvering.. in real life thats not the case... gw2 and other games are more realistic... therefore a healer is not necessary.

     What do medics do in the army?

  • Neo_LibertyNeo_Liberty Lufkin, TXPosts: 429Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Iselin
    Originally posted by Neo_Liberty
    Originally posted by Iselin
    was insinuated.

    Oh give me a break... If I can suspend disbelief for shooting fire out of my fingers (a controversial topic in Lord of the Rings Online, by the way) I can sure as hell do it for healing.

     

    IPs? EQ, WOW, DAoC, Dungeons and Dragons... or does it have to be in print or made by Hollywood for your definition of IP? image

    I don't disagree with you. the point is everyone has different tastes. gw2 is amazing for those who like realistic combat. if you don't and prefer the trinity.. play those... I would say the same to those who say instancing and zoning ruins games.. a lot of ppl can easily overlook such things.. I personally believe that healerless games are more immersive and realistic... it forces u to adjust and learn how to play... I've played many trinity games and honestly.. its boring to me.

     

    Well, i meant print or movie... its easy enough for someone to make up their own original... but even then.. does everquest have books or movies? wow have books or movies? if any of those ips have books or movies does the combat work the same as the games? if not.. its not realistic.

    I play GW2 and like it a lot. I did mention that it's the best attempt to replace the trinity in a game I have played. It's just not quite there as a viable permanent replacement. It's a very good try but it has its weaknesses as I pointed out.

     

    In the open world and most dynamic events it works well... just not so much for those critters that can demolish you in a couple of hits: the casual procced heals and heal abilities are just too weak and the powerful self heal talents are on long cooldowns.

     

    But it's a very tough thing to balance: Make it so you can survive a fight with a champion with some effort and the rest of the content is trivialized. It's balanced for the bulk of the game but there are many fights that still could use a powerfull healer.

    i agree... the heals on gw2 aren't adequate... and being a heavy armor archetype doesn't seem to help too much. like i said... if boss fights/dungeons involved fighting huge numbers battles would be more about skill selection and dodging ability.. when fighting super strong Ie Giant bosses/ supped up dungeon mobs... your ability to play at times becomes more trivial.

    image
  • waynejr2waynejr2 West Toluca Lake, CAPosts: 4,473Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Iselin
    Originally posted by Neo_Liberty
    I think you miss the point.. classless roles are there for a reason... its more "realistic" no medical technician has the ability in real life or fantasy  to make someone completely healthy in like ten seconds while in combat... combat is boring and requires little movement or maneuvering.. in real life thats not the case... gw2 and other games are more realistic... therefore a healer is not necessary.

    Realism is it? Ok, let's have amputees and dead is dead... and no fireballs coming out your fingers either... scratch magic... and super stealth in well-lit open places... forget assassins (no great loss there :) ) realism is a slippery slope. Let's talk gameplay and game systems not realism please.

     

     

     Realism is one of the last justifications for getting your way.  Didn't you know it?  Notice how weight limits break "immersion".  That's another justification.

  • FreezzoFreezzo EnschedePosts: 235Member
    i agree... the heals on gw2 aren't adequate... and being a heavy armor archetype doesn't seem to help too much. like i said... if boss fights/dungeons involved fighting huge numbers battles would be more about skill selection and dodging ability.. when fighting super strong Ie Giant bosses/ supped up dungeon mobs... your ability to play at times becomes more trivial.

    A lot of what you say boils down to this (correct me if I'm wrong):

    • Realism with healing is low
    • No healing creates more realism
    • Heals are needed, but specialised healers aren't 
    • Tanks are somewhat realistic due to having heavy armor
    May I also point out that your earlier statement of no IP with any instant healing to full health and the likes is also something weird to say. When you want realism, you'll have to quit playing a character every time you get hit, you'll probably walk around with just half of your limbs and you'd die due to blood loss even after a fight. Realism isn't what games are about, hence the magic, tanking, fighting bigass monsters, everything really...
    The problem I think is the dumbing down of the class roles. There's only 3 (sometimes 4 -> RIFT Support) left, whereas a game with 5 roles and not purely focused on dps would give way more interesting mechanics. That combined with less of a role requirement (needing a tank, healer, buffer, debuffer, dps) for everything would make a game more complex and possibly let those who dig deeper into the theorycrafting and using the full system be better than average dpsing joe.

    "We need men who can dream of things that never were." - John F. Kennedy
    And for MMORPGs ever so true...

  • Br3akingDawnBr3akingDawn a City, CAPosts: 1,357Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Quirhid
    But it was so mindnumbingly boring! And its been done to death.

    then heal a party with no "true" tank. oh its gonna be fun!

    image

  • Neo_LibertyNeo_Liberty Lufkin, TXPosts: 429Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by waynejr2
    Originally posted by Iselin
    Originally posted by Neo_Liberty
    I think you miss the point.. classless roles are there for a reason... its more "realistic" no medical technician has the ability in real life or fantasy  to make someone completely healthy in like ten seconds while in combat... combat is boring and requires little movement or maneuvering.. in real life thats not the case... gw2 and other games are more realistic... therefore a healer is not necessary.

    Realism is it? Ok, let's have amputees and dead is dead... and no fireballs coming out your fingers either... scratch magic... and super stealth in well-lit open places... forget assassins (no great loss there :) ) realism is a slippery slope. Let's talk gameplay and game systems not realism please.

     

     

     Realism is one of the last justifications for getting your way.  Didn't you know it?  Notice how weight limits break "immersion".  That's another justification.

    its not a justification for getting my way.. if realism to me enhances immersion... than its not an issue... And as others have said.. everyone can get their way.. there are games out there with the trinity.. I choose not to play them.. and you can do the opposite.

    I also play a console with weight limits.. and you can see the effects in the chars walk speed and run speed.. it didn't bother me whatsoever and made for interesting gameplay.

    image
  • Neo_LibertyNeo_Liberty Lufkin, TXPosts: 429Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Freezzo
    i agree... the heals on gw2 aren't adequate... and being a heavy armor archetype doesn't seem to help too much. like i said... if boss fights/dungeons involved fighting huge numbers battles would be more about skill selection and dodging ability.. when fighting super strong Ie Giant bosses/ supped up dungeon mobs... your ability to play at times becomes more trivial.

    A lot of what you say boils down to this (correct me if I'm wrong):

    • Realism with healing is low
    • No healing creates more realism
    • Heals are needed, but specialised healers aren't 
    • Tanks are somewhat realistic due to having heavy armor
    May I also point out that your earlier statement of no IP with any instant healing to full health and the likes is also something weird to say. When you want realism, you'll have to quit playing a character every time you get hit, you'll probably walk around with just half of your limbs and you'd die due to blood loss even after a fight. Realism isn't what games are about, hence the magic, tanking, fighting bigass monsters, everything really...
    The problem I think is the dumbing down of the class roles. There's only 3 (sometimes 4 -> RIFT Support) left, whereas a game with 5 roles and not purely focused on dps would give way more interesting mechanics. That combined with less of a role requirement (needing a tank, healer, buffer, debuffer, dps) for everything would make a game more complex and possibly let those who dig deeper into the theorycrafting and using the full system be better than average dpsing joe.

    you missunderstand my definition of realism.. realism is based on the ip.... if you are talking dnd/forgotten realms.. healing isn't instant and is mostly done with potions.  healers do heal.. but they don't restore full health. so what you are saying doesn't really apply.

     

    edit: your idea about the actual system makes sense.. except for the fact that the games i've played with other char types.. most ppl still choose to go with the trinity.... instead of 1 tank and 1 healer or such.. they double up to be more effective...

    they tend to go 1 tank 2 dps 2 heals/ 2 tanks 2heals 1 dps.. most don't make use of the crowd control and other char classes.

    image
  • Neo_LibertyNeo_Liberty Lufkin, TXPosts: 429Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by waynejr2
    Originally posted by Neo_Liberty
    Originally posted by Iselin

    Dissing the traditional tank and spank is all the rage today. All the cool kids hate it. The trinity system has been around for a long time since it replaced the "quad" when a specialized CC'er/buffer was also required. It must be time for a change right? "New" is better don'tyaknow.

     

    The problem is that no one has really come up with a viable replacement for the trinity yet. Sure a lot have tried with more or less success. The best of those I have played so far being GW2. But even GW2 with everyone having the ability (more or less... "tanky" and "healy" builds do exist) to tank, heal and DPS has its problems.

     

    A lot of the tougher fights in GW2 with champs, world bosses and in dungeons boils down to a risky game of aggro-pong with no class being able to withstand the full undivided attention of a tough mob for more than a few seconds... some better than others but even the heavy-armored classes will eventually have to start kiting the champion mob around like scared little girls while a train follows them both beating at it with mostly low damage abilities. GW2 jack-of-all-trades, AOE-happy classes excel at dealing with hordes of weak mobs but they sort of fall appart in the really tough boss encounters... and people die... a lot. Combat rezzing is a must so everyone has it. They've even spent soem extra time programming a "nearly dead" down state to make the whole self or other "rezzing" thing more fun... might as well since it's a big part of the game.

     

    Other games like Rift with multiple specs and even WOW with its dual specs maintain the trinity but they give you multiple specs so that each class can do at least 2 of the 3 roles. This pressumably helps with forming groups, but in actual practice most will just play their favorite role anyway. The secret world goes that one better by making everyone able to be any of the 3 with their classless skill wheel... no hiding on that one. But I still hear a lot of excuses there about being good at just one of the roles.

     

    So yeah you healers wiling to step-up, take responsibility and put up with all the finger pointing... until someone comes up with a much better system where you're really not needed you have my respect.

     

    /salute.

    I think you miss the point.. classless roles are there for a reason... its more "realistic" no medical technician has the ability in real life or fantasy  to make someone completely healthy in like ten seconds while in combat... combat is boring and requires little movement or maneuvering.. in real life thats not the case... gw2 and other games are more realistic... therefore a healer is not necessary.

     What do medics do in the army?

    they patch you up.. being patched up and continuing the fight isn't the same.. as all of your wounds being removed and receiving full health.

    image
  • LhynnSaintLhynnSaint CordobaPosts: 119Member

    The problem with healing is not the shattered suspension of disbelief, its just that it takes all the drama away from the fight, it becomes by the numbers, not only that, BECAUSE there is healing, bosses have to hit like trucks, otherwise his damage will be outhealed, and that means that the tank cant feel thought, after all hed be dead if he took those blows without the safety belt that is the healer, the others feel like they mean nothing, after all, even with the healer curing them they would still go down in a couple hits, the boss feels stupid, because hes not hitting the dude thats making all this possible (the healer).

    oh and the healer... he mostly gets bored, an exepcion are those freaks that actually enjoy clicking their heals as fast as they can (granted, in some games there is a high degree of skill involved in healing, that doesnt make it any less idiotic).

    Spam-healing  others is gamey, and devalues every single aspect of the combat only because its there. Got nothing agaist self heals tho, or out of combat healing.

  • Neo_LibertyNeo_Liberty Lufkin, TXPosts: 429Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by LhynnSaint

    The problem with healing is not the shattered suspension of disbelief, its just that it takes all the drama away from the fight, it becomes by the numbers, not only that, BECAUSE there is healing, bosses have to hit like trucks, otherwise his damage will be outhealed, and that means that the tank cant feel thought, after all hed be dead if he took those blows without the safety belt that is the healer, the others feel like they mean nothing, after all, even with the healer curing them they would still go down in a couple hits, the boss feels stupid, because hes not hitting the dude thats making all this possible (the healer).

    oh and the healer... he mostly gets bored, an exepcion are those freaks that actually enjoy clicking their heals as fast as they can (granted, in some games there is a high degree of skill involved in healing, that doesnt make it any less idiotic).

    Spam-healing  others is gamey, and devalues every single aspect of the combat only because its there. Got nothing agaist self heals tho, or out of combat healing.

    thats basically how i feel and why gw2 healing works.. its like applying a bandaid or turniquet.. it doesn't completely heal you and you still have to be careful.. and there are specific tools to remove conditions and not really too many all in ones... where ur conditions are removed and you are fully healed.

    image
  • FreezzoFreezzo EnschedePosts: 235Member
    Originally posted by Neo_Liberty
     

    you missunderstand my definition of realism.. realism is based on the ip.... if you are talking dnd/forgotten realms.. healing isn't instant and is mostly done with potions.  healers do heal.. but they don't restore full health. so what you are saying doesn't really apply.

     

    edit: your idea about the actual system makes sense.. except for the fact that the games i've played with other char types.. most ppl still choose to go with the trinity.... instead of 1 tank and 1 healer or such.. they double up to be more effective...

    they tend to go 1 tank 2 dps 2 heals/ 2 tanks 2heals 1 dps.. most don't make use of the crowd control and other char classes.

    Then I did indeed misunderstand you. I agree that the implementation of healing is a bit over-the-top in fantasy games, but that's mostly because of limited dev creativity or limited willingness for players to understand things. Things like magical shields and pre-emptive healing by crippling the boss, enchanting armour and other means of shielding/supporting a party so that it takes less to no damage is something very often seen and mostly used by tanks. This is what is quite off about it, because it should really be the caster being able to shield the damage and having the tank there to enable the healer/shielder to do its job by distracting the threat to the party.

    "We need men who can dream of things that never were." - John F. Kennedy
    And for MMORPGs ever so true...

  • Neo_LibertyNeo_Liberty Lufkin, TXPosts: 429Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Freezzo
    Originally posted by Neo_Liberty
     

    you missunderstand my definition of realism.. realism is based on the ip.... if you are talking dnd/forgotten realms.. healing isn't instant and is mostly done with potions.  healers do heal.. but they don't restore full health. so what you are saying doesn't really apply.

     

    edit: your idea about the actual system makes sense.. except for the fact that the games i've played with other char types.. most ppl still choose to go with the trinity.... instead of 1 tank and 1 healer or such.. they double up to be more effective...

    they tend to go 1 tank 2 dps 2 heals/ 2 tanks 2heals 1 dps.. most don't make use of the crowd control and other char classes.

    Then I did indeed misunderstand you. I agree that the implementation of healing is a bit over-the-top in fantasy games, but that's mostly because of limited dev creativity or limited willingness for players to understand things. Things like magical shields and pre-emptive healing by crippling the boss, enchanting armour and other means of shielding/supporting a party so that it takes less to no damage is something very often seen and mostly used by tanks. This is what is quite off about it, because it should really be the caster being able to shield the damage and having the tank there to enable the healer/shielder to do its job by distracting the threat to the party.

    that sounds interesting.. include the tanks ability to use skills like shield bash to keep the target off balance therefore preventing it from shifting agro.. such mechanics are implemented in some games i've played and it increases immersion.. but often its not enough and the heals are over the top.

    image
  • QuizzicalQuizzical Posts: 14,775Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Iselin

    Dissing the traditional tank and spank is all the rage today. All the cool kids hate it. The trinity system has been around for a long time since it replaced the "quad" when a specialized CC'er/buffer was also required. It must be time for a change right? "New" is better don'tyaknow.

    The biggest problem with Trinity combat is the tank part, not the healer part.  Or more to the point, that mobs use an aggro system to determine who they attack, so that success in combat is primarily about tricking mobs into behaving in extraordinarily stupid ways.

  • FoomerangFoomerang Portland, ORPosts: 5,565Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Quizzical
    Originally posted by Iselin Dissing the traditional tank and spank is all the rage today. All the cool kids hate it. The trinity system has been around for a long time since it replaced the "quad" when a specialized CC'er/buffer was also required. It must be time for a change right? "New" is better don'tyaknow.
    The biggest problem with Trinity combat is the tank part, not the healer part.  Or more to the point, that mobs use an aggro system to determine who they attack, so that success in combat is primarily about tricking mobs into behaving in extraordinarily stupid ways.

    I agree, aggro mechanics are kinda lame. I always thought a tank should be a major cc class using tons of stuns snares, roots etc. Pin down mobs, throw shields, drag a mob around by the leg while choking another one to death. I would roll a tank in a heartbeat with those types of mechanics.
  • QuirhidQuirhid TamperePosts: 5,969Member Common
    Originally posted by Foomerang

     


    Originally posted by Quizzical


    The biggest problem with Trinity combat is the tank part, not the healer part.  Or more to the point, that mobs use an aggro system to determine who they attack, so that success in combat is primarily about tricking mobs into behaving in extraordinarily stupid ways.
    I agree, aggro mechanics are kinda lame. I always thought a tank should be a major cc class using tons of stuns snares, roots etc. Pin down mobs, throw shields, drag a mob around by the leg while choking another one to death. I would roll a tank in a heartbeat with those types of mechanics.

     

    I agree, and me too.

    I also kinda liked how healing in combat in D&D was sort of awkward, which made healing in combat an emergency-only thing. Often healing is too easy, too simple. I much prefer the approach Arenanet took with GW1 and 2 where defence is not only healing, but also avoiding and preventing incoming damage. It makes it much more engaging and active. Much more interesting.

    I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  • atuerstaratuerstar melbournePosts: 234Member

    Get a mate to show you PVE healing in dungeons and raids on The Secret World and see what you think. No res, massive boss damage, unique mechanics and limited resources to heal with offers quite a satisfying challenge.

     

     

  • ScotScot UKPosts: 5,758Member Uncommon

    It was certainly time for something new. But I do not think the decision to give everyone healing had anything to do with creating a new combat dynamic.

    Healing classes are seen as something that makes it harder to solo. If you are not a healing class you have to rest and heal. If you are a healing class you take a long time to down a mob. So to make MMO’s ever more casual and solo friendly healing for all was introduced. They did not announce it like that in press releases mind you. :)

    I am all for something new in gameplay but you tell me the change in combat dynamics over the last five years that has not been made to make MMO’s more solo friendly? Certainly none have made new MMO's less solo friendly. That would be design heresy in an easyMMO.

  • AnthurAnthur StolbergPosts: 686Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Lonzo

    I as a hardcore support/heal player am very disappointed with the trend MMOs go these days. Everyone can heal a bit and it is all about DPSing. I give a ***** shit about DPSING, i want to heal a real tank and my group. I want oldschool Health and Manabars and nothing else.

    Stop the experiments! Go hardcore and oldschool DEVS!

     

    EQ1: Cleric

    EQ2: Templar

    WOW: Heal Pala

    Hi Lonzo,

    I actually didn't read all the replies up to here. But its probably anyway the same stuff as always. You know, the "healing is boring", "healers are arrogant", " don't want to lfg for a healer" etc.

    So I skipped that and just want to say that I agree with you. Played the same classes as you in EQ1/2 and it was great. Challenging, fun and rewarding. Great times.

    Unfortunately the newer MMOs I played mostly follow the "dps them till they are dead" scheme. So I switched to dps. But compared to old EQ times that is not nearly as much fun or challenging.

    So you are not alone. ;)

  • IsawaIsawa Middle 0 Nowhere, ORPosts: 1,051Member

    How about a mechanic like in SWG where you went to a Doctor before (and after) combat in order to get buffs to help you succeed. They would also help cure you afterwards, if you were wasted too much.

    There was also a Combat Medic class that would help people stay alive in combat, but when you were defeated your stats would be reduced and require the Doctor / Entertainer (possibly for mind) if I remember correctly, to be reset to maximum. Didn't play either of those fields myself.

  • CalmOceansCalmOceans BergenPosts: 2,273Member

    The people who hate on the trinity model (it was more like quad or more in EQ), should come up with a viable alternative before they shoot it down.

    And no, soloing or making all classes DPS is not a viable alternative.

    People complain they couldn't find a healer or tank, that's not the game's fault, that's how the system works, it creates dependency, you are forced to engage with people and socialise. Unless the game falls below a treshold of a handful of people, the trinity model is amazing.

     

2
Sign In or Register to comment.