Originally posted by remyburke I enjoy instanced PvP.
I know.
And that also makes instancing so weak.
Now ,we are playing the same game and you send me a tell that you are having a good instanced fight,and i will ask,where are you?im coming.
But in most cases that is not possible.
Because theres a frikking joining program, firewall, a computer program or queue whatever preventing me to join,to help or to enjoy of that good fight.
But in open world,game gives to a player lots of options.
Eh... You can join your friends on Steam quite easily. Also, if you are ready to see the effort to engage in open world PvP, travel to the location etc., why aren't you ready to just look the server up and join your friend?
We are playing the same game allready.
If you only have that 1 choice,join with friend,that really isnt much compared to choices which i have in open world PvP.
First one is,i dont need to join something with my friend because im allready joined with 100 of my friends around the map (edit + 300 unknown friends)
And we dont need to que for it,game is not going to separate us to a different instances.
Originally posted by remyburke I enjoy instanced PvP.
I know.
And that also makes instancing so weak.
Now ,we are playing the same game and you send me a tell that you are having a good instanced fight,and i will ask,where are you?im coming.
But in most cases that is not possible.
Because theres a frikking joining program, firewall, a computer program or queue whatever preventing me to join,to help or to enjoy of that good fight.
But in open world,game gives to a player lots of options.
On a well done instanced system you can join or join in the next match, which would equate to traveling to the location of owpvp. But I'm sure that's not the only reason you don't like it.
Originally posted by remyburke I enjoy instanced PvP.
I know.
And that also makes instancing so weak.
Now ,we are playing the same game and you send me a tell that you are having a good instanced fight,and i will ask,where are you?im coming.
But in most cases that is not possible.
Because theres a frikking joining program, firewall, a computer program or queue whatever preventing me to join,to help or to enjoy of that good fight.
But in open world,game gives to a player lots of options.
On a well done instanced system you can join or join in the next match, which would equate to traveling to the location of owpvp. But I'm sure that's not the only reason you don't like it.
Theres no next match in this case,its so freakking epic fight against super gankker that he must die or he will log out.
And im part of that fight (PvP) allready even while im still thinking how do i get there.
When did players start to accept the fact that it's okay for PvP to be completely instanced?
EverQuest II's 2006 Nagafen Server was a World PvP Server. It worked.
SWG's PvP was World PvP. It worked.
Ever since WoW, PvP has become pure trash. And to make matters worse, "World PvP" has become such a loose term that anything that is isn't completely structured and even is considered World PvP, e.g., SWTOR's Ilum - a dedicated area for PvP. This isn't World PvP. It's trash.
I'll tell you why people waste time in these redundant battlegrounds. It's because they are so helpless and consumed with the damn carrot dangling in front of their faces. You want that little piece of reward that everyone will eventually have. It's boring. It's an embarrassment to the genre.
I don't want to see anyone fail. However, it would be a lie to not say I enjoy watching these Instanced PvP games turn into failed FTP games.
You have to remember that there is way more pve players in the world than there is pvpers. this is why the panzy battlegrounds have grown so much. Its a carebears wet dream to be able to go into a safe isntance were he wont lose anything and capture a flag or somthing on a even team. then thump his chest and claim to be a great pvper. when in reality if he was on a open world pvp server he would be crying his eyes out on the forums because he just got jumped lost his gear and life isnt fair.
But i guess i cant blame them to much, most players only know thempark style of games and have no clue what it use to be like to fight over hunting spots, and fight to survive in a game makeing friends and enemys along the way.
Granpa misses the days when he can gank and grief other players.
I don't understand the rage, are there ZERO OWPvP in the market, or are you just throwing a fit because the mainstream MMOs are not the ones you grew up with? Darkfall is re-releasing; there's your world PVP, go at it.
Originally posted by ShakyMo Instanced pvp in mmos sucks gorilla sung balls.
There are much better ways to get instanced match pvp - e.g. csgo or Tf2
There are 2 models of pvp in a mmo that work, the eve model and the daoc model, al other mmo pvp is shit.
Thank god planetside 2 has come along to resurrect the daoc model.
Nope, spvp works just fine. It's just that you don't like it
Yeah, Miley Cyrus is the best artist ever, her music is so creative and layered, there's nothing wrong with it. You just don't like it is all!
Gee... I wonder why people don't like it...
We have in this thread people posting concrete details about why most instanced PvP, defending their answers. Then we have the other half just going "Nah there's nothing wrong with it, you just don't like it is all, silly!"
Originally posted by Rhoklaw I'm sorry, but I couldn't help but notice the OP said WoW had trash PvP yet am I mistaken about WoW PvP servers actually being open world PvP? I could have sworn they were the last time I checked.
Not really, no. Most of WoW's PvP is instanced, and most of it isn't very well balanced. It's a good example of a game that has PvP bolted onto it as an afterthought instead of built into the core.
Wrong.
Most of WoW's servers ARE open world PvP.
And if anything "isn't very well balanced", then it's open world PvP, so I don't know why you complain about instanced. Balance issues is why I prefer instanced. Somewhat equal opponents in equal numbers is what makes PvP fun. That rarely exists at all in open PvP.
Instances are the last ditch effort of a game designer who failed at his job. "Well shit, I can't balance my MMO.... I guess I'll just instance it!" It lessens the game experience, and its a crutch for bad developers. Which is why you can usually tell a game is going to be garbage if it has extensive instancing, because it means the devs didn't put any thought into the game design.
Granpa misses the days when he can gank and grief other players.
Typical troll response from people who don't understand anything about game design.
We miss the days when MMOs were designed well.
Not really, maybe it's you who don't understand the diversity of people. ..heh, maybe you don't understand the nature of game design.
And for the record, I have and have been ganked. I get the adrenaline rush. I played open world PvP too, but unlike other people, like the OP and maybe you, I acknowledge that this kind of design shouldn't be forced on players, and I believe that those who openly attack other people's tastes should be welcomed with snarky remarks.
Like I said, what's the problem? Are there ZERO OWPvP in the MMORPG.com games list?
Which is why there are different genres. Mobas, Shooters, RTS, all 'fair and balanced' and not based solely on player immersion and character progression like MMORPGs are. Why is it so hard for you to understand that? Games like Dota are amazing, I have 1200 hours in Dota 2 beta, HoN, ect, but I would never settle for that style of gameplay in an MMORPG. That's not what I play the games for.
I seriously enjoy how people's counter argument comes from a 'competitive' perspective where they try to pin it on the OP that he isn't capable of fair fights, ect. What the fuck is a fair fight in an MMORPG? Since when does that have to even be considered? I don't want to play moba arena friendslist-instance-teleport 2013 like the rest of you. These F2P instant-gratification games are digging developers an extremely deep hole that is difficult to get out of. It's already difficult to develop an appealing game among the masses of identical shit, let alone develop an appealing game fully knowing the wagon is only stopping by for a month at best before moving on. No wonder all of these games are diving into cash-shop to try to rip us off for as much as they can before we bail.
The things I enjoy in MMORPGs are the things they were designed for, development, community, player-driven content and weight to your actions. In an ideal MMORPG if you're a dickhead everyone knows it and avoids/blacklists you like the plague. In these games where you're cross-server teleporting every 5 seconds no one has a clue who you are or cares. I tried to play Cataclysm and didn't meet one single person worth talking to because they're all minimized playing five other games while they wait for ques to pop. I'm sorry guys, but that isn't an MMO. It's a glorified lobby, that's like Gamespy or something. Even in WoW's earlier days, you knew who your allies and enemies were, the same names popped up in battlegrounds every day and you built a sense of community and competition, you'd then see those same dudes post-BG in a group for UBRS and be able to fight them there on your way. It didn't have weight, but it had community. I could go on a forum and see people talking about what I had done against them in PvP 5 years later.
For the argument against instanced-pvp, I think it had it's place and time; but in my opinion it's been so rinsed-and-washed that it's worthless to keep developing these kinds of games. We have far better arena style games that offer much more in terms of longevity, balance and eSports support - what on earth is the point in turning our subscription based games into these as well? I want to have to think about my actions and consequences. I want to be able to keep tabs on who's been an asshole to me in-game and who's been an ally and care about who's at war with who. An MMO with pvp should feel like a horror game. You want to have to be scared of messing up in the middle of no-where alone trying to farm a rare item, there needs to be risk and reward and a reason to befriend and aid people outside of your need for a priest or a mage. It's unfortunate that a server based game like Day Z or War Z is the most 'MMO' style experience you'll find right now, but even then it ends up being a glorified deathmatch because of the fact there's no sand in the box.
tl;dr: I wrote you guys a book because instanced PVP sucks, and well developed AAA Sandbox games are the only positive future for this genre.
Currently playing - FF14ARR Previous games - SWG, World of Warcraft, ShadowBane, Warhammer, Age of Conan, Darkfall, Planetside Asheron's Call, Everquest, Everquest 2, Too many.
I'll tell you why people waste time in these redundant battlegrounds. It's because they are so helpless and consumed with the damn carrot dangling in front of their faces. You want that little piece of reward that everyone will eventually have. It's boring. It's an embarrassment to the genre.
I don't want to see anyone fail. However, it would be a lie to not say I enjoy watching these Instanced PvP games turn into failed FTP games.
Server #2 PvP (open world PvP, BGs, Guild vs Guild)
I like the setup but it does tend to get a little hectic during server wide events.
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
Granpa misses the days when he can gank and grief other players.
Typical troll response from people who don't understand anything about game design.
We miss the days when MMOs were designed well.
Not really, maybe it's you who don't understand the diversity of people. ..heh, maybe you don't understand the nature of game design.
And for the record, I have and have been ganked. I get the adrenaline rush. I played open world PvP too, but unlike other people, like the OP and maybe you, I acknowledge that this kind of design shouldn't be forced on players, and I believe that those who openly attack other people's tastes should be welcomed with snarky remarks.
Like I said, what's the problem? Are there ZERO OWPvP in the MMORPG.com games list?
You're just digging yourself in deeper and deeper.
How difficult is it for you to understand that when someone says noninstanced PvP, they aren't always talking about FFA PVP ganking anywhere anytime style PvP? Look up DAoC.
As for instanced PvP, it's not what MMOs do best. Competetive ladder style everything even FPS rounds PvP is done best by games like LoL. MMOs should focus on large scale PvP. Focusing on instanced PvP is just as big a waste of potential as an MMO focusing on instanced singleplayer storylines. Genres exist already for people who like that stuff, leave MMOs to what MMOs do well. Large scale multiplayer.
I know it's probably not a popular opinion, but to me world pvp is a lot like communism. On paper it's perfect, in reality it never works but you can never -prove- it doesn't work because every example given is deflected with 'well, see, that wasn't REAL world pvp'. It's always too instanced, or tacked on, or not balanced, or not meaningful enough, or consequence free, or the community doesn't have all the tools to make it viable (???), or any other of a laundry list of 1000 reasons.
I think that reason is why clear, direct instanced pvp became so popular.
You're just digging yourself in deeper and deeper.
How difficult is it for you to understand that when someone says noninstanced PvP, they aren't always talking about FFA PVP ganking anywhere anytime style PvP? Look up DAoC.
As for instanced PvP, it's not what MMOs do best. Competetive ladder style everything even FPS rounds PvP is done best by games like LoL. MMOs should focus on large scale PvP. Focusing on instanced PvP is just as big a waste of potential as an MMO focusing on instanced singleplayer storylines. Genres exist already for people who like that stuff, leave MMOs to what MMOs do well. Large scale multiplayer.
yeah, so are you with your selfish and self absorbed responses.. the mmo genre doesn't belong soley to you and those with the same opinion as you... it belongs to no one.. so go back to your fantasy world.. and leave the real world to open minded ppl.
Granpa misses the days when he can gank and grief other players.
Typical troll response from people who don't understand anything about game design.
We miss the days when MMOs were designed well.
Not really, maybe it's you who don't understand the diversity of people. ..heh, maybe you don't understand the nature of game design.
And for the record, I have and have been ganked. I get the adrenaline rush. I played open world PvP too, but unlike other people, like the OP and maybe you, I acknowledge that this kind of design shouldn't be forced on players, and I believe that those who openly attack other people's tastes should be welcomed with snarky remarks.
Like I said, what's the problem? Are there ZERO OWPvP in the MMORPG.com games list?
You're just digging yourself in deeper and deeper.
How difficult is it for you to understand that when someone says noninstanced PvP, they aren't always talking about FFA PVP ganking anywhere anytime style PvP? Look up DAoC.
As for instanced PvP, it's not what MMOs do best. Competetive ladder style everything even FPS rounds PvP is done best by games like LoL. MMOs should focus on large scale PvP. Focusing on instanced PvP is just as big a waste of potential as an MMO focusing on instanced singleplayer storylines. Genres exist already for people who like that stuff, leave MMOs to what MMOs do well. Large scale multiplayer.
You're 32 years old and have almost 1000 posts in 2 months. I don't think you understand what real life is. Go get some fresh air for Christ sakes.
Granpa misses the days when he can gank and grief other players.
Typical troll response from people who don't understand anything about game design.
We miss the days when MMOs were designed well.
Not really, maybe it's you who don't understand the diversity of people. ..heh, maybe you don't understand the nature of game design.
And for the record, I have and have been ganked. I get the adrenaline rush. I played open world PvP too, but unlike other people, like the OP and maybe you, I acknowledge that this kind of design shouldn't be forced on players, and I believe that those who openly attack other people's tastes should be welcomed with snarky remarks.
Like I said, what's the problem? Are there ZERO OWPvP in the MMORPG.com games list?
You're just digging yourself in deeper and deeper.
How difficult is it for you to understand that when someone says noninstanced PvP, they aren't always talking about FFA PVP ganking anywhere anytime style PvP? Look up DAoC.
As for instanced PvP, it's not what MMOs do best. Competetive ladder style everything even FPS rounds PvP is done best by games like LoL. MMOs should focus on large scale PvP. Focusing on instanced PvP is just as big a waste of potential as an MMO focusing on instanced singleplayer storylines. Genres exist already for people who like that stuff, leave MMOs to what MMOs do well. Large scale multiplayer.
LOL
At this point you still don't get it. You think that I am like you, just on the opposite side. I am fully aware that OWPvP isn't all about FFA, full loot, etc. No need to direct me to the ever referenced DAoC. For future reference include UO, Asherons's Call, and SWG to that list. I don't need to hear more about what they used to have..or what you oldbies used to play.
The difference is that I am ACCEPTING OF ALL types of MMOs. I understand that this particular genre is wider than most in terms of scope and features, and it should stay that way. Large scale PvP for MMOs? Sure, that's GREAT, but there's no reason why we can't have instanced arena-type PvP as well. You say there are different genres for a reason, but guess what, people flock to MMORPGs because they find the things they like here, unlike in MMOFPS (no RPG, and a shooter game), MOBA (no persistent customized avatar, plus all you do is...PvP).
MMORPGs shouldn't focus on any one thing as a genre. I believe EACH (MMO) game focusing on their own things is the way to go.
U R Not Hardc0re Nubz We R Teh Hardc0rez ::pose pose flex::
The story of PvP, since ~1978 (and counting).
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
When did players start to accept the fact that it's okay for PvP to be completely instanced?
EverQuest II's 2006 Nagafen Server was a World PvP Server. It worked.
SWG's PvP was World PvP. It worked.
Ever since WoW, PvP has become pure trash. And to make matters worse, "World PvP" has become such a loose term that anything that is isn't completely structured and even is considered World PvP, e.g., SWTOR's Ilum - a dedicated area for PvP. This isn't World PvP. It's trash.
I'll tell you why people waste time in these redundant battlegrounds. It's because they are so helpless and consumed with the damn carrot dangling in front of their faces. You want that little piece of reward that everyone will eventually have. It's boring. It's an embarrassment to the genre.
I don't want to see anyone fail. However, it would be a lie to not say I enjoy watching these Instanced PvP games turn into failed FTP games.
While were on the subject of instances i would also like to make it clear than instanced PvE is also crap imo. I would much rather see Open world dunguens and raids where you may run into conflict with out groups in the process which makes thing intresting not tomention if there World PvP and the other group farming the dunguens is an enemy faction you can fight for the spot. Makes thing better imo keep you on your toes when anything can happen, instances kinda negates the unexpected and dull down the experience/excitment. I would much rather see a return of the older games like Everquest, No instances at all and openworld PvP (like the PvP team or even FFA pvp but i prefered the 4 team one based on races servers on Everquest)
Which is why there are different genres. Mobas, Shooters, RTS, all 'fair and balanced' and not based solely on player immersion and character progression like MMORPGs are. Why is it so hard for you to understand that? Games like Dota are amazing, I have 1200 hours in Dota 2 beta, HoN, ect, but I would never settle for that style of gameplay in an MMORPG. That's not what I play the games for.
I seriously enjoy how people's counter argument comes from a 'competitive' perspective where they try to pin it on the OP that he isn't capable of fair fights, ect. What the fuck is a fair fight in an MMORPG? Since when does that have to even be considered? I don't want to play moba arena friendslist-instance-teleport 2013 like the rest of you. These F2P instant-gratification games are digging developers an extremely deep hole that is difficult to get out of. It's already difficult to develop an appealing game among the masses of identical shit, let alone develop an appealing game fully knowing the wagon is only stopping by for a month at best before moving on. No wonder all of these games are diving into cash-shop to try to rip us off for as much as they can before we bail.
The things I enjoy in MMORPGs are the things they were designed for, development, community, player-driven content and weight to your actions. In an ideal MMORPG if you're a dickhead everyone knows it and avoids/blacklists you like the plague. In these games where you're cross-server teleporting every 5 seconds no one has a clue who you are or cares. I tried to play Cataclysm and didn't meet one single person worth talking to because they're all minimized playing five other games while they wait for ques to pop. I'm sorry guys, but that isn't an MMO. It's a glorified lobby, that's like Gamespy or something. Even in WoW's earlier days, you knew who your allies and enemies were, the same names popped up in battlegrounds every day and you built a sense of community and competition, you'd then see those same dudes post-BG in a group for UBRS and be able to fight them there on your way. It didn't have weight, but it had community. I could go on a forum and see people talking about what I had done against them in PvP 5 years later.
For the argument against instanced-pvp, I think it had it's place and time; but in my opinion it's been so rinsed-and-washed that it's worthless to keep developing these kinds of games. We have far better arena style games that offer much more in terms of longevity, balance and eSports support - what on earth is the point in turning our subscription based games into these as well? I want to have to think about my actions and consequences. I want to be able to keep tabs on who's been an asshole to me in-game and who's been an ally and care about who's at war with who. An MMO with pvp should feel like a horror game. You want to have to be scared of messing up in the middle of no-where alone trying to farm a rare item, there needs to be risk and reward and a reason to befriend and aid people outside of your need for a priest or a mage. It's unfortunate that a server based game like Day Z or War Z is the most 'MMO' style experience you'll find right now, but even then it ends up being a glorified deathmatch because of the fact there's no sand in the box.
tl;dr: I wrote you guys a book because instanced PVP sucks, and well developed AAA Sandbox games are the only positive future for this genre.
Open World PvP sucks and I'm glad the powers that be don't embrace your pathetic ideology. How's that for turnabout is fair play?
You're just digging yourself in deeper and deeper.
How difficult is it for you to understand that when someone says noninstanced PvP, they aren't always talking about FFA PVP ganking anywhere anytime style PvP? Look up DAoC.
As for instanced PvP, it's not what MMOs do best. Competetive ladder style everything even FPS rounds PvP is done best by games like LoL. MMOs should focus on large scale PvP. Focusing on instanced PvP is just as big a waste of potential as an MMO focusing on instanced singleplayer storylines. Genres exist already for people who like that stuff, leave MMOs to what MMOs do well. Large scale multiplayer.
yeah, so are you with your selfish and self absorbed responses.. the mmo genre doesn't belong soley to you and those with the same opinion as you... it belongs to no one.. so go back to your fantasy world.. and leave the real world to open minded ppl.
Hahaha, has someone touched you in one of those special places? Learn to embrace diversity in the gaming arena or suffer accdordingly. Your point of view is niche of a niche and not likely to ever be embraced as thoroughly as instance PvP.
Comments
We are playing the same game allready.
If you only have that 1 choice,join with friend,that really isnt much compared to choices which i have in open world PvP.
First one is,i dont need to join something with my friend because im allready joined with 100 of my friends around the map (edit + 300 unknown friends)
And we dont need to que for it,game is not going to separate us to a different instances.
Let's internet
On a well done instanced system you can join or join in the next match, which would equate to traveling to the location of owpvp. But I'm sure that's not the only reason you don't like it.
There are much better ways to get instanced match pvp - e.g. csgo or Tf2
There are 2 models of pvp in a mmo that work, the eve model and the daoc model, al other mmo pvp is shit.
Thank god planetside 2 has come along to resurrect the daoc model.
Nope, spvp works just fine. It's just that you don't like it
Theres no next match in this case,its so freakking epic fight against super gankker that he must die or he will log out.
And im part of that fight (PvP) allready even while im still thinking how do i get there.
Let's internet
You have to remember that there is way more pve players in the world than there is pvpers. this is why the panzy battlegrounds have grown so much. Its a carebears wet dream to be able to go into a safe isntance were he wont lose anything and capture a flag or somthing on a even team. then thump his chest and claim to be a great pvper. when in reality if he was on a open world pvp server he would be crying his eyes out on the forums because he just got jumped lost his gear and life isnt fair.
But i guess i cant blame them to much, most players only know thempark style of games and have no clue what it use to be like to fight over hunting spots, and fight to survive in a game makeing friends and enemys along the way.
Granpa misses the days when he can gank and grief other players.
I don't understand the rage, are there ZERO OWPvP in the market, or are you just throwing a fit because the mainstream MMOs are not the ones you grew up with? Darkfall is re-releasing; there's your world PVP, go at it.
NEWS FLASH:
People like different things.
I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil
Typical troll response from people who don't understand anything about game design.
We miss the days when MMOs were designed well.
Yeah, Miley Cyrus is the best artist ever, her music is so creative and layered, there's nothing wrong with it. You just don't like it is all!
Gee... I wonder why people don't like it...
We have in this thread people posting concrete details about why most instanced PvP, defending their answers. Then we have the other half just going "Nah there's nothing wrong with it, you just don't like it is all, silly!"
Instances are the last ditch effort of a game designer who failed at his job. "Well shit, I can't balance my MMO.... I guess I'll just instance it!" It lessens the game experience, and its a crutch for bad developers. Which is why you can usually tell a game is going to be garbage if it has extensive instancing, because it means the devs didn't put any thought into the game design.
Not really, maybe it's you who don't understand the diversity of people. ..heh, maybe you don't understand the nature of game design.
And for the record, I have and have been ganked. I get the adrenaline rush. I played open world PvP too, but unlike other people, like the OP and maybe you, I acknowledge that this kind of design shouldn't be forced on players, and I believe that those who openly attack other people's tastes should be welcomed with snarky remarks.
Like I said, what's the problem? Are there ZERO OWPvP in the MMORPG.com games list?
Which is why there are different genres. Mobas, Shooters, RTS, all 'fair and balanced' and not based solely on player immersion and character progression like MMORPGs are. Why is it so hard for you to understand that? Games like Dota are amazing, I have 1200 hours in Dota 2 beta, HoN, ect, but I would never settle for that style of gameplay in an MMORPG. That's not what I play the games for.
I seriously enjoy how people's counter argument comes from a 'competitive' perspective where they try to pin it on the OP that he isn't capable of fair fights, ect. What the fuck is a fair fight in an MMORPG? Since when does that have to even be considered? I don't want to play moba arena friendslist-instance-teleport 2013 like the rest of you. These F2P instant-gratification games are digging developers an extremely deep hole that is difficult to get out of. It's already difficult to develop an appealing game among the masses of identical shit, let alone develop an appealing game fully knowing the wagon is only stopping by for a month at best before moving on. No wonder all of these games are diving into cash-shop to try to rip us off for as much as they can before we bail.
The things I enjoy in MMORPGs are the things they were designed for, development, community, player-driven content and weight to your actions. In an ideal MMORPG if you're a dickhead everyone knows it and avoids/blacklists you like the plague. In these games where you're cross-server teleporting every 5 seconds no one has a clue who you are or cares. I tried to play Cataclysm and didn't meet one single person worth talking to because they're all minimized playing five other games while they wait for ques to pop. I'm sorry guys, but that isn't an MMO. It's a glorified lobby, that's like Gamespy or something. Even in WoW's earlier days, you knew who your allies and enemies were, the same names popped up in battlegrounds every day and you built a sense of community and competition, you'd then see those same dudes post-BG in a group for UBRS and be able to fight them there on your way. It didn't have weight, but it had community. I could go on a forum and see people talking about what I had done against them in PvP 5 years later.
For the argument against instanced-pvp, I think it had it's place and time; but in my opinion it's been so rinsed-and-washed that it's worthless to keep developing these kinds of games. We have far better arena style games that offer much more in terms of longevity, balance and eSports support - what on earth is the point in turning our subscription based games into these as well? I want to have to think about my actions and consequences. I want to be able to keep tabs on who's been an asshole to me in-game and who's been an ally and care about who's at war with who. An MMO with pvp should feel like a horror game. You want to have to be scared of messing up in the middle of no-where alone trying to farm a rare item, there needs to be risk and reward and a reason to befriend and aid people outside of your need for a priest or a mage. It's unfortunate that a server based game like Day Z or War Z is the most 'MMO' style experience you'll find right now, but even then it ends up being a glorified deathmatch because of the fact there's no sand in the box.
tl;dr: I wrote you guys a book because instanced PVP sucks, and well developed AAA Sandbox games are the only positive future for this genre.
Currently playing - FF14ARR
Previous games - SWG, World of Warcraft, ShadowBane, Warhammer, Age of Conan, Darkfall, Planetside Asheron's Call, Everquest, Everquest 2, Too many.
You forgot about SWG...........
Looking at: The Repopulation
Preordering: None
Playing: Random Games
Tera has this set up with a few exceptions:
Server #1 PvE (optional BGs, Guild vs Guild)
Server #2 PvP (open world PvP, BGs, Guild vs Guild)
I like the setup but it does tend to get a little hectic during server wide events.
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
You're just digging yourself in deeper and deeper.
How difficult is it for you to understand that when someone says noninstanced PvP, they aren't always talking about FFA PVP ganking anywhere anytime style PvP? Look up DAoC.
As for instanced PvP, it's not what MMOs do best. Competetive ladder style everything even FPS rounds PvP is done best by games like LoL. MMOs should focus on large scale PvP. Focusing on instanced PvP is just as big a waste of potential as an MMO focusing on instanced singleplayer storylines. Genres exist already for people who like that stuff, leave MMOs to what MMOs do well. Large scale multiplayer.
I know it's probably not a popular opinion, but to me world pvp is a lot like communism. On paper it's perfect, in reality it never works but you can never -prove- it doesn't work because every example given is deflected with 'well, see, that wasn't REAL world pvp'. It's always too instanced, or tacked on, or not balanced, or not meaningful enough, or consequence free, or the community doesn't have all the tools to make it viable (???), or any other of a laundry list of 1000 reasons.
I think that reason is why clear, direct instanced pvp became so popular.
yeah, so are you with your selfish and self absorbed responses.. the mmo genre doesn't belong soley to you and those with the same opinion as you... it belongs to no one.. so go back to your fantasy world.. and leave the real world to open minded ppl.
You're 32 years old and have almost 1000 posts in 2 months. I don't think you understand what real life is. Go get some fresh air for Christ sakes.
Nothing wrong with instanced pvp. Infact, may players prefer organize, balanced competitive play over chaotic zerg vs zerg mentality.
Both are fun, but sometimes you just want to play a game where skill determines the winner, not numbers.
LOL
At this point you still don't get it. You think that I am like you, just on the opposite side. I am fully aware that OWPvP isn't all about FFA, full loot, etc. No need to direct me to the ever referenced DAoC. For future reference include UO, Asherons's Call, and SWG to that list. I don't need to hear more about what they used to have..or what you oldbies used to play.
The difference is that I am ACCEPTING OF ALL types of MMOs. I understand that this particular genre is wider than most in terms of scope and features, and it should stay that way. Large scale PvP for MMOs? Sure, that's GREAT, but there's no reason why we can't have instanced arena-type PvP as well. You say there are different genres for a reason, but guess what, people flock to MMORPGs because they find the things they like here, unlike in MMOFPS (no RPG, and a shooter game), MOBA (no persistent customized avatar, plus all you do is...PvP).
MMORPGs shouldn't focus on any one thing as a genre. I believe EACH (MMO) game focusing on their own things is the way to go.
U R Not Hardc0re Nubz We R Teh Hardc0rez ::pose pose flex::
The story of PvP, since ~1978 (and counting).
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
While were on the subject of instances i would also like to make it clear than instanced PvE is also crap imo. I would much rather see Open world dunguens and raids where you may run into conflict with out groups in the process which makes thing intresting not tomention if there World PvP and the other group farming the dunguens is an enemy faction you can fight for the spot. Makes thing better imo keep you on your toes when anything can happen, instances kinda negates the unexpected and dull down the experience/excitment. I would much rather see a return of the older games like Everquest, No instances at all and openworld PvP (like the PvP team or even FFA pvp but i prefered the 4 team one based on races servers on Everquest)
Open World PvP sucks and I'm glad the powers that be don't embrace your pathetic ideology. How's that for turnabout is fair play?
Hahaha, has someone touched you in one of those special places? Learn to embrace diversity in the gaming arena or suffer accdordingly. Your point of view is niche of a niche and not likely to ever be embraced as thoroughly as instance PvP.