SOE in their original true form. Punishing their own playerbase...
No thanks, had enough of that with EQ1 to last a lifetime.
You do realise people actually like to be punished for bad decisions in games? No?
^This.
I will never stomach the idea of "modern gamer" who wants to be hand-held and guided through everything and have no reprecursions for failure. 99% of the games in last year or so have been pretty much...movies.
Games, as far as I am concerned SHOULD punish one for failure - that's what makes success so satisfying.
# A GRIM, ODD, ARCANE SKY # ANY GOD, I MARK SACRED # A MASKED CRY ADORING # A DREAMY, SICK DRAGON
I will never stomach the idea of "modern gamer" who wants to be hand-held and guided through everything and have no reprecursions for failure. 99% of the games in last year or so have been pretty much...movies.
Games, as far as I am concerned SHOULD punish one for failure - that's what makes success so satisfying.
I've never played a permadeath game, but i don't see the big deal... Honestly, it looks as though permadeath just extends the gameplay... when you die, u should decide to learn how to play better and get better at ur class/game.... not to mention the longer it takes u to get to max level the more time you spend with the game before leaving... In addition to that for ppl who like grouping and guilds.. the threat of life-like death will force ppl to group and create bonds so that they will more likely be able to survive... My only concern is the graphics and controls... The graphics don't have to be amazing.... but the controls have to be good.... whats the point of permadeath and such if the game controls are so bad that you can do nothing but die....
Oh my god.... this actually... this sounds really good. Non instanced??? Cursed items? Slow healing? Going to Inns to heal?? (the only good feature of DDO) a genius death penalty?
guildmates and I been playing this one nonstop since we got into beta. its' good. really good. hardcare game for the hardcore gamers cant get enough of these
I think the game has some good ideas - and the old school offering means that older/certain types of players will have something to play other than another cash shop game.
Problem is this: in open Pk games, the only people that have fun are the ones with endless free time in real life. This means say goodbye to a majority of your player audience. So, let's call it a niche game and I'll leave it at that.
Unfortunately this game is a bust. The other guys were right about it being 10 years old. Actually 10 year old games like DAoC have aged better than this game will be at launch. I could only last an hour here which gets you through your first tiny instanced dungeon. People say Raiderz combat is terrible compaired to Tera, but I still enjoy Raiderz. It's not as polished as Tera but it's free and fun. Now imagine something 10 times worse than Raiderz, voila Wizardry. It really is that bad. The only possible thing going for it is permadeath but that's not enough to make up for the rest.
Unfortunately they seem to have put a very bad bounty system in place. This type of system has been show to not work at all. The flaw - create an asshole type character that runs around and makes a nuisance of themsevles to generate a large bounty - then have your friend or your character on your other account kill the one with the large bounty and collect the reward. The only thing to take into account is to make sure the bounty exceeds the ressurection requirements. Even at that if you powerlevel characters on the "bad" account you can generate a stream of criminals that attract bounties and if you dont bother upping your ressurection and lose a few characters here and there no big deal.
While I do not currently play EvE there new bounty system sounds interesting. It wont directly translate to a game like this, however, players who kill other players for bounty only get a portion of the outstanding bounty based off the amount of financial pain they inflict on the criminal character. Thus it could take many deaths to completely remove large bounties and each death is gaurenteed to cost more than the bounty awarded. In this way characters who wish to play like criminals and rack up large bounties will constantly have to deal with bounty hunters all of the time and it is no longer worthwhile having a friend or 2nd account to kill your for your bounty as the loss is always greater than the gain.
I am there with many posted here. I also attempted to play this beta, BUT after about 20-60 min of play I just could not force myself to play any longer (in hopes of it getting better). I found it to have an old and dated feel to the graphics and game play. I was excited to have a game that did not cater to the carebear philosophy, but please bring the game out of the 90's !
The poor UI and graphic settings was horribly diappointing for a 2012 game. I have played Indy games with better UIs and graphic settings.
The game (even for beta) just felt half-hazard in it's attempt at being a real game that was made in present time. If it was 1990 or even 2000 maybe it could be acceptable.
I'm actually enjoying the beta for now. I'm a big Wizardry fan (hell I'm still playing LoLS on my iPad) and I've been playing them ever since Ascii brought them to the NES (hey I was a poor kid that couldn't afford a PC in the 80s). So I'm no novice when it comes to understanding the Wizardry mythos. Permadeath, random stat gains, resting at inns, limited spells (they changed it from D&D type spell system), traps galore, real need for player classes (other than the trinity), open PvP (not in the sprpgs), item identification, camping and multi-classes were all present in the original games. So it doesn't surprise me that Wizardry Online is very similar in that regard. This ain't just Wizardry lore made with the hero engine. I wasn't expecting them to change it to Elder Scrolls Online. It's just like Wizardry, but online with other players.
I do have a issue with the camera angles though. I wish they would have an option to lock the camera behind your character once you lock onto a target to help when in combat mode. If only because strifing and moving play key roles on how effective you are in avoiding traps in the environment while you're fighting.
Also I wish they offered a way to bless items (with a great cost of course) in your inventory that you are preparing to use (like keys) in a dungeon without fear of getting them looted. I don't mind participating in partial loot (since they cannot remove equipped items) open pvp when I play, but even UO had bless scrolls for items you wanted to keep safe. Dunno maybe this is something they plan to introduce within the cash shop. I just hope they offer a non cash shop route.
But to give an idea about my experience so far:
I created a fighter first, because I wanted survivability in my first play through. First thing I noticed was the lack of races typically associated within Wizardry games. I chalked this up to the fact that the IP has been a niche title for a long time and having more races would have eaten up more resources than they had to offer. I also noticed that the four original elite classes didn't make the cut. Namely Samurai, Lord, Bishop and Ninja. But maybe those are also part of their cash shop plans. They still offer the four basic classes. Fighter, Mage, Priest and Thief.
Second thing I did (after noticing the dismal choices for your character, but hey you never saw your avatars in the single player versions) was try to roll 40 (lol hey can you blame a guy), but stopped short because I figured they may have skipped that tidbit for the online version.
After creating my avatar I started on my journey with a bare minimum tutorial, subpar graphics and text speed slower than a snail's pace. Damn you can't accuse Wizardry of not making players suffer day one... Anyway, I got through the tutorial, brushed aside the kickback graphics and I'm still trying to figure out how to speed up (not hit "esc") cutscene text. Right away I found a game that throws all those safety nets and features from past mmos to the wayside.
Use to sitting to get your hp/mp back
Use to using that shiny you just looted
Use to trapless private romps through instance dungeons
Use to instantly having maps to places you haven't been
Use to leveling instantly and only using inns to log out of
Use to carrying around all your stuff with no fear of losing it
Use to dying continously without preparing to avoid death
Use to guilds that offer nothing but glorified chatrooms
Use to not weighing your options whether to go back to town, camp or dive deeper
Use to not teaming up with others early on
Use to the mindless banter in chat channels
If you're use to any of these things Wizardry Online is not for you. And don't get me wrong. This is not to say that WO doesn't have it's own problems to contend with.
Repetative questing
Awkward drawn weapon and undrawn weapon character movements
Piss poor camera controls
Dated graphics
Boring cutscenes with sloooooow text speed and dry dialog
Crowded unexplained UI features
With all it's issues I still find Wizardry Online enjoyable at times. Is it the end-all be-all of mmos? Not a chance. But it's different enough for me from everything else out there to give it a shot. And if you're a Wizardry fan like me, you should at least give it one as well. Well maybe not the Sir-tech Wizardry fans...they have their own issues to resolve. But if you played some of them from Sirtech and Ascii like I have, try it out.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
The graphics in the screenshots dont look incredible.. but they dont look half bad either. Are they inaccurate to the graphics people seem to be talking about in the beta?
Just wondering.. do people consider the graphics from a game like.. FF11 to be god awful now? These screenshots dont look quite as good as that, but from what I can see i'd make a minor comparison.
SOE in their original true form. Punishing their own playerbase...
No thanks, had enough of that with EQ1 to last a lifetime.
You do realise people actually like to be punished for bad decisions in games? No?
^This.
I will never stomach the idea of "modern gamer" who wants to be hand-held and guided through everything and have no reprecursions for failure. 99% of the games in last year or so have been pretty much...movies.
Games, as far as I am concerned SHOULD punish one for failure - that's what makes success so satisfying.
^agree i know im one looking for a game that punishes death, i like EQ original death mechanics. I like the ideas on wizardry but it is a 10 year old game or somthing i just cant get into those games atm cause movment not very fluent which is why i cant go back to Everquest after playing the modern games byt the modern games are just rubbish atleast most of them are. Looking forward to Darkfall and hopefully EQ next later next year (well thats till we get to see first gameplay atleast at the fanfaire). so probaly early 2014 i would whink long wait
I was kinda of surprised at the reaction here. These forums are flooded with posts about how graphics don't matter, dungeons should be harder, hand-holding is the bane of gaming, and group play needs to return.
WO is a niche game so I didn't expect throngs of fans showering it with adulations but I really thought there'd be a much more positive reaction than this, especially considering what most of the complaints are.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Some people just don't get it: WO isn't hated for the special attributes it's advertised with (perma death, pvp) it's just a crap game. Just because everyone is crying for permadeath and full loot pvp doesn't mean a game is automagically good just because it has this.
I play this game and have for about 2 weeks...here is what you can expect...Mages are a joke when it comes to pvp because the way they scale down damage in pvp vs pve...Mage can do say 900 points of damage to a mob...vs a player 30-50..Mages have the least defense and jokable hp...A lvl 17 warrior will have about 900 if done right mage 200. Combine this with horrible annimations for casting you add about a second to all cast. This combined with the fact that spells do not track and are dumb fire really makes being a mage a joke...However they are one of the only classes that can solo the rare dungeon bosses by kitting. Mages were not very thought out class in this game and to be honest feel more like an after thought. the only benfit a mage has is his ability to reduce armor as well as to lock an enemy in place...so once you get these abilities to a decent level You can class change over to a warrior or a thief and become a rather nasty.
warriors are pretty much the end all be all in this game...shy of the rare purple bosses there is nothing these guys can not solo.With the right stats a warrior with a battle axe can plow through everything like it was nothing. Way over powered class. In pvp they rank second in deadliest.
thief. Hard to play due thier squshy nature. In pve they can deal out damage fast but like the mage take a pounding cause they are up close. In pvp however they are responsible for more permadeaths then any other class.
Priest are one of the most survivable classes. They have the most blessed armor meaning they dont get much perma death, and you cant steal it from them. Much like a warrior they can lay out good damage and survive it due to the nature of heavy armor. Healing really does help
Open pvp..like many feared there is serious ganking even in cbt. Whole guild or Unions will go down to lower level areas and just grief people left and right. Becoming red is rather simple and can happen on accident due to the nature of melee combat and really crappy targeting and attack systems. And if you kill a ganker and take from him guess what your now red and your fair game to any one.
Crafting. In this game is pretty much about boosting your items. This like most games means you can break the item. Which you can do at +2....
All in all its not a perfect game. It requires alot of paitence, practice, and dedication to become any where near good, and then your gong to be jumped by 6 people in a pk guild and robbed blind so always try to have back up gear. If Sony wants this game to be a hit they will need way more content then available in cbt, will need to fix mages all together. And will need to lessen the hardcore only concept of it so that the casual gamer will want to put money into the game...If not well it wont last that much.
I play this game and have for about 2 weeks...here is what you can expect...Mages are a joke when it comes to pvp because the way they scale down damage in pvp vs pve...Mage can do say 900 points of damage to a mob...vs a player 30-50..Mages have the least defense and jokable hp...A lvl 17 warrior will have about 900 if done right mage 200. Combine this with horrible annimations for casting you add about a second to all cast. This combined with the fact that spells do not track and are dumb fire really makes being a mage a joke...However they are one of the only classes that can solo the rare dungeon bosses by kitting. Mages were not very thought out class in this game and to be honest feel more like an after thought. the only benfit a mage has is his ability to reduce armor as well as to lock an enemy in place...so once you get these abilities to a decent level You can class change over to a warrior or a thief and become a rather nasty.
Actually, your last sentence explains why mages are the way they are. They are glass cannons that can be beasts after multiclassing. Until then, trying to solo with them is insanely difficult, however the game isn't really balanced for solo play.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Comments
^This.
I will never stomach the idea of "modern gamer" who wants to be hand-held and guided through everything and have no reprecursions for failure. 99% of the games in last year or so have been pretty much...movies.
Games, as far as I am concerned SHOULD punish one for failure - that's what makes success so satisfying.
# A GRIM, ODD, ARCANE SKY
# ANY GOD, I MARK SACRED
# A MASKED CRY ADORING
# A DREAMY, SICK DRAGON
I've never played a permadeath game, but i don't see the big deal... Honestly, it looks as though permadeath just extends the gameplay... when you die, u should decide to learn how to play better and get better at ur class/game.... not to mention the longer it takes u to get to max level the more time you spend with the game before leaving... In addition to that for ppl who like grouping and guilds.. the threat of life-like death will force ppl to group and create bonds so that they will more likely be able to survive... My only concern is the graphics and controls... The graphics don't have to be amazing.... but the controls have to be good.... whats the point of permadeath and such if the game controls are so bad that you can do nothing but die....
Oh my god.... this actually... this sounds really good. Non instanced??? Cursed items? Slow healing? Going to Inns to heal?? (the only good feature of DDO) a genius death penalty?
How did this go under my radar?
I could say all of this about LotRO and WoW, yet people seem to enjoy those.
You mean, the form that made them a rich and famous company?
Its not them punishing you, its you punishing yourself by screwing up.
guildmates and I been playing this one nonstop since we got into beta. its' good. really good. hardcare game for the hardcore gamers
cant get enough of these 
we are all criminal atm LOL
BigCountry | Head Hunters | www.wefarmpeople.com
I think the game has some good ideas - and the old school offering means that older/certain types of players will have something to play other than another cash shop game.
Problem is this: in open Pk games, the only people that have fun are the ones with endless free time in real life. This means say goodbye to a majority of your player audience. So, let's call it a niche game and I'll leave it at that.
"Have you given WO a try? What do you think?"
Did the author do ANY research before writing this? The game is still under NDA.
Unfortunately they seem to have put a very bad bounty system in place. This type of system has been show to not work at all. The flaw - create an asshole type character that runs around and makes a nuisance of themsevles to generate a large bounty - then have your friend or your character on your other account kill the one with the large bounty and collect the reward. The only thing to take into account is to make sure the bounty exceeds the ressurection requirements. Even at that if you powerlevel characters on the "bad" account you can generate a stream of criminals that attract bounties and if you dont bother upping your ressurection and lose a few characters here and there no big deal.
While I do not currently play EvE there new bounty system sounds interesting. It wont directly translate to a game like this, however, players who kill other players for bounty only get a portion of the outstanding bounty based off the amount of financial pain they inflict on the criminal character. Thus it could take many deaths to completely remove large bounties and each death is gaurenteed to cost more than the bounty awarded. In this way characters who wish to play like criminals and rack up large bounties will constantly have to deal with bounty hunters all of the time and it is no longer worthwhile having a friend or 2nd account to kill your for your bounty as the loss is always greater than the gain.
I am there with many posted here. I also attempted to play this beta, BUT after about 20-60 min of play I just could not force myself to play any longer (in hopes of it getting better). I found it to have an old and dated feel to the graphics and game play. I was excited to have a game that did not cater to the carebear philosophy, but please bring the game out of the 90's !
The poor UI and graphic settings was horribly diappointing for a 2012 game. I have played Indy games with better UIs and graphic settings.
The game (even for beta) just felt half-hazard in it's attempt at being a real game that was made in present time. If it was 1990 or even 2000 maybe it could be acceptable.
This one is a no play for me.
I'm actually enjoying the beta for now. I'm a big Wizardry fan (hell I'm still playing LoLS on my iPad) and I've been playing them ever since Ascii brought them to the NES (hey I was a poor kid that couldn't afford a PC in the 80s). So I'm no novice when it comes to understanding the Wizardry mythos. Permadeath, random stat gains, resting at inns, limited spells (they changed it from D&D type spell system), traps galore, real need for player classes (other than the trinity), open PvP (not in the sprpgs), item identification, camping and multi-classes were all present in the original games. So it doesn't surprise me that Wizardry Online is very similar in that regard. This ain't just Wizardry lore made with the hero engine. I wasn't expecting them to change it to Elder Scrolls Online. It's just like Wizardry, but online with other players.
But to give an idea about my experience so far:
I created a fighter first, because I wanted survivability in my first play through. First thing I noticed was the lack of races typically associated within Wizardry games. I chalked this up to the fact that the IP has been a niche title for a long time and having more races would have eaten up more resources than they had to offer. I also noticed that the four original elite classes didn't make the cut. Namely Samurai, Lord, Bishop and Ninja. But maybe those are also part of their cash shop plans. They still offer the four basic classes. Fighter, Mage, Priest and Thief.
Second thing I did (after noticing the dismal choices for your character, but hey you never saw your avatars in the single player versions) was try to roll 40 (lol hey can you blame a guy), but stopped short because I figured they may have skipped that tidbit for the online version.
After creating my avatar I started on my journey with a bare minimum tutorial, subpar graphics and text speed slower than a snail's pace. Damn you can't accuse Wizardry of not making players suffer day one... Anyway, I got through the tutorial, brushed aside the kickback graphics and I'm still trying to figure out how to speed up (not hit "esc") cutscene text. Right away I found a game that throws all those safety nets and features from past mmos to the wayside.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
The graphics in the screenshots dont look incredible.. but they dont look half bad either. Are they inaccurate to the graphics people seem to be talking about in the beta?
Just wondering.. do people consider the graphics from a game like.. FF11 to be god awful now? These screenshots dont look quite as good as that, but from what I can see i'd make a minor comparison.
Read this massively preview for a much more balanced view of the game:
http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/11/27/yup-youre-dead-hands-on-with-wizardry-online/
My gaming blog
MAKE SOME FRIENDS !! go around town trying to make friends with people before you start to play
this game is IMPOSSIBLE for soloer's
so if you want to solo do not play this game
make some friends and ask for help...this game is VERY FUN when you actually play it correctly and make friends quickly
it seems like a very lame game if you try to solo
but it is not lame at all...very deep game once you get into it hahah
Not korean i beleive it was original a japanese game that SoE bought the publishing rights from.
^agree i know im one looking for a game that punishes death, i like EQ original death mechanics. I like the ideas on wizardry but it is a 10 year old game or somthing i just cant get into those games atm cause movment not very fluent which is why i cant go back to Everquest
after playing the modern games byt the modern games are just rubbish atleast most of them are. Looking forward to Darkfall and hopefully EQ next later next year (well thats till we get to see first gameplay atleast at the fanfaire). so probaly early 2014 i would whink long wait 
I was kinda of surprised at the reaction here. These forums are flooded with posts about how graphics don't matter, dungeons should be harder, hand-holding is the bane of gaming, and group play needs to return.
WO is a niche game so I didn't expect throngs of fans showering it with adulations but I really thought there'd be a much more positive reaction than this, especially considering what most of the complaints are.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
the game is absolutely horrid
don't get your hopes up or even think about it as not only is it absolutely outdated, it tries to combine concepts that simply don't work in a MMORPG.
i've played better mmorpgs on my smartphone or even facebook than this...
there's no excuse for the developer here, it's the worst product in years.
not even exagerrating it. don't be surprised if it gets canceled before the release
I review lots of indie games and MMORPGs
I play this game and have for about 2 weeks...here is what you can expect...Mages are a joke when it comes to pvp because the way they scale down damage in pvp vs pve...Mage can do say 900 points of damage to a mob...vs a player 30-50..Mages have the least defense and jokable hp...A lvl 17 warrior will have about 900 if done right mage 200. Combine this with horrible annimations for casting you add about a second to all cast. This combined with the fact that spells do not track and are dumb fire really makes being a mage a joke...However they are one of the only classes that can solo the rare dungeon bosses by kitting. Mages were not very thought out class in this game and to be honest feel more like an after thought. the only benfit a mage has is his ability to reduce armor as well as to lock an enemy in place...so once you get these abilities to a decent level You can class change over to a warrior or a thief and become a rather nasty.
warriors are pretty much the end all be all in this game...shy of the rare purple bosses there is nothing these guys can not solo.With the right stats a warrior with a battle axe can plow through everything like it was nothing. Way over powered class. In pvp they rank second in deadliest.
thief. Hard to play due thier squshy nature. In pve they can deal out damage fast but like the mage take a pounding cause they are up close. In pvp however they are responsible for more permadeaths then any other class.
Priest are one of the most survivable classes. They have the most blessed armor meaning they dont get much perma death, and you cant steal it from them. Much like a warrior they can lay out good damage and survive it due to the nature of heavy armor. Healing really does help
Open pvp..like many feared there is serious ganking even in cbt. Whole guild or Unions will go down to lower level areas and just grief people left and right. Becoming red is rather simple and can happen on accident due to the nature of melee combat and really crappy targeting and attack systems. And if you kill a ganker and take from him guess what your now red and your fair game to any one.
Crafting. In this game is pretty much about boosting your items. This like most games means you can break the item. Which you can do at +2....
All in all its not a perfect game. It requires alot of paitence, practice, and dedication to become any where near good, and then your gong to be jumped by 6 people in a pk guild and robbed blind so always try to have back up gear. If Sony wants this game to be a hit they will need way more content then available in cbt, will need to fix mages all together. And will need to lessen the hardcore only concept of it so that the casual gamer will want to put money into the game...If not well it wont last that much.
Actually, your last sentence explains why mages are the way they are. They are glass cannons that can be beasts after multiclassing. Until then, trying to solo with them is insanely difficult, however the game isn't really balanced for solo play.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre