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Will this game last?

2

Comments

  • mikahrmikahr ZagrebPosts: 1,066Member
    Originally posted by vayman

    An operating cost of $7.5 million a month seems high to me. That's not me doubting your facts; I remember reading that before launch. But it is only just now sinking in for me to think about how much it costs to keep the lights on for SWTOR.

    It was a bad design from start to finish; top to bottom.

    It's no wonder why the F2P model is so restrictive and expensive.

    It doesnt cost that much any more.

    But, as a part of the package of cutting expenses:

    - no monthly updates but 1/4 of update every 6 weeks (so 1 update every 6 months) and lot of rehashed content (HK and space combat)

    - no story content

    - reduced in number/quality community team

    - reduced in number/quality customer support

    - things that might have been fixed will probably never get fixed

    ...

  • LoverNoFighterLoverNoFighter Star CItyPosts: 294Member
    Originally posted by karmath
    Er? It's allready dead?

    Bullseye.

  • BoognisheBoognishe Fort Myers, FLPosts: 83Member
    I doubt it lasts more than a year or two, not with the hefty percentage that LucasArts (Disney now I guess) gets out of the deal.
  • DraronDraron A town in, KYPosts: 993Member
    Originally posted by superniceguy
    Originally posted by Draron

    Yes, the game will last. Anyone who says otherwise is confusing lasting with thriving or is in the group here on these boards that likes to overexagerrate. 

    Thing is though with SWTOR it needs to thrive to survive, and if it does not thrive then it will not last, because SWTOR is in a unique position compared to other MMOs. SWTOR needs the equivalent of 500K subs to break even, that is $7.5 million per month. All other MMOs do not need that much to survive / last.

    Vanguard is not thriving, far from it, but will last as does not cost much to keep running.

    Warhammer is probably still going as does not cost much to run either.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-19077238

    The President of EA Labels Frank Gibeau said the Star Wars game would still break even so long as it maintained 500,000 subscribers, but admitted that its current performance was "not good enough".

    If EA bring out a new game / project that gives them way more profit than SWTOR, then I do not see them burdening themselves with this costly bad rep beast.

    I'm not going to get into a debate, but the article was written in August. There has been one big team cleaning since then and another lesser one. The 500k subscriber figure isn't set in stone, but rather was set by Bioware's unreasonable expectations. They can scale the team to meet subscription numbers and still be profitable just as most other MMO's do, even if it takes them longer to recoup the costs of the game. 

  • cronius77cronius77 Fairfax, VAPosts: 1,347Member Uncommon
    this game is on life support even with free to play and i have an active sub . While there is a burst currently of new players and full servers this game is dying is dying fast . Just today the patch broke companions making their gear stats disappear until you re equip all their armor everytime you zone mount up or do any crafting with your main companion. You got about 1/3 of the population crashing to desktop every two hours in game since patch 1.4 and its not even offically addressed by staff. This is going to be mythic and warhammer all over again watch and see. In fact the new patch 1.6 is only one rehashed warzone that wasnt released and some space missions. I cannot even describe the frustration many players still with active subs are facing now with this game and the lack of a team that gives a crap. The game story and combat to me is fun and worth a sub but i just cancelled out of the frustration with dealing with CS there and the major bugs like todays patch and crashes to desktop. Also ive had a ticket in with them about 500 missing cartel coins from free to play start since the 15th and its now the 27th and still not even a reply to my ticket in game , thats how piss poor customer service is with Failware/EA
  • superniceguysuperniceguy AnchorheadPosts: 2,278Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Draron
    Originally posted by superniceguy
    Originally posted by Draron

    Yes, the game will last. Anyone who says otherwise is confusing lasting with thriving or is in the group here on these boards that likes to overexagerrate. 

    Thing is though with SWTOR it needs to thrive to survive, and if it does not thrive then it will not last, because SWTOR is in a unique position compared to other MMOs. SWTOR needs the equivalent of 500K subs to break even, that is $7.5 million per month. All other MMOs do not need that much to survive / last.

    Vanguard is not thriving, far from it, but will last as does not cost much to keep running.

    Warhammer is probably still going as does not cost much to run either.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-19077238

    The President of EA Labels Frank Gibeau said the Star Wars game would still break even so long as it maintained 500,000 subscribers, but admitted that its current performance was "not good enough".

    If EA bring out a new game / project that gives them way more profit than SWTOR, then I do not see them burdening themselves with this costly bad rep beast.

    I'm not going to get into a debate, but the article was written in August. There has been one big team cleaning since then and another lesser one. Bioware can scale the team to meet subscription numbers and still be profitable, even if it takes them longer to recoup the costs of the game. 

    Maybe, but it does not add confidence, and they should have just said nothing.

    I kept at SWG as everything SOE and LA said, implied it was going to carry on for longer, and more content was in the pipeline, same with City of heroes, I even paid 6 months sub to that, then 1 week later they announced its closure.

    EA are just doing the opposite. Even if they made it all rosy I would have my doubts after SWG and CoH, but for EA to keep saying things that make the game not seem to last, and to think the game will last from it, is just nuts!

    I thought all team cleaning was done before then?

    Also like I said if they plan on moving forward, which no doubt they are, and bring out another game that does not need team cleaning or loss of staff, and can get more profit from it, then I do not see them burdening themselves with SWTOR

    I doubt the game will shut down until about a year, and that is plenty of time for everyone to get the most out of it, and with the amount of new content they add, you can be done with all that within a week. The people who still play must be addicted to monotous repetition, and no desire for advancing.

    Basically if anyone plans on playing this at all, it is best to play it now or probably never will if hold back. The game is the best it is going to get.

  • tiefighter25tiefighter25 Winchester, MAPosts: 937Member
    Originally posted by Draron
    Originally posted by superniceguy
    Originally posted by Draron

    Yes, the game will last. Anyone who says otherwise is confusing lasting with thriving or is in the group here on these boards that likes to overexagerrate. 

    Thing is though with SWTOR it needs to thrive to survive, and if it does not thrive then it will not last, because SWTOR is in a unique position compared to other MMOs. SWTOR needs the equivalent of 500K subs to break even, that is $7.5 million per month. All other MMOs do not need that much to survive / last.

    Vanguard is not thriving, far from it, but will last as does not cost much to keep running.

    Warhammer is probably still going as does not cost much to run either.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-19077238

    The President of EA Labels Frank Gibeau said the Star Wars game would still break even so long as it maintained 500,000 subscribers, but admitted that its current performance was "not good enough".

    If EA bring out a new game / project that gives them way more profit than SWTOR, then I do not see them burdening themselves with this costly bad rep beast.

    I'm not going to get into a debate, but the article was written in August. There has been one big team cleaning since then and another lesser one. The 500k subscriber figure isn't set in stone, but rather was set by Bioware's unreasonable expectations. They can scale the team to meet subscription numbers and still be profitable just as most other MMO's do, even if it takes them longer to recoup the costs of the game. 

    The two major layoffs were in May and July. As you pointed out, EA then stated 500k subs as their profitability line in August.

    EA also reported at that time they had between one million and 500k subs. EA failed to report any sub numbers October 30th.

    The game is now FTP.

  • FrodoFraginsFrodoFragins Manchester, NHPosts: 2,926Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by superniceguy

    Thing is though with SWTOR it needs to thrive to survive, and if it does not thrive then it will not last, because SWTOR is in a unique position compared to other MMOs. SWTOR needs the equivalent of 500K subs to break even, that is $7.5 million per month. All other MMOs do not need that much to survive / last.

    That's not true anymore.  They've laid off a lot of people and cut back on content creation.  They don't need that much money per month to break even.  We have no idea what their break even point is.  Given the lackluster response to F2P, thanks in large part to no TV advertising like LOTRO used, I expect a lot more layoffs in the coming months.

  • superniceguysuperniceguy AnchorheadPosts: 2,278Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by FrodoFragins
    Originally posted by superniceguy

    Thing is though with SWTOR it needs to thrive to survive, and if it does not thrive then it will not last, because SWTOR is in a unique position compared to other MMOs. SWTOR needs the equivalent of 500K subs to break even, that is $7.5 million per month. All other MMOs do not need that much to survive / last.

    That's not true anymore.  They've laid off a lot of people and cut back on content creation.  They don't need that much money per month to break even.  We have no idea what their break even point is.  Given the lackluster response to F2P, thanks in large part to no TV advertising like LOTRO used, I expect a lot more layoffs in the coming months.

    That statement was made in August AFTER the cut backs and F2P

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-19077238

  • tiefighter25tiefighter25 Winchester, MAPosts: 937Member

    I'll say it again. The layoffs were in May and July.

    The 500k subscribers  statement was reiterated in August as break even.

    If you think the $7.5 million a month needed to break even is a lie take it up with EA. They said it.

  • KarahandrasKarahandras Sible HedinghamPosts: 1,673Member Uncommon
    Probably going to last as long as the contract.
  • BurntvetBurntvet Baltimore, MDPosts: 2,940Member Uncommon

    If by last you mean "not close down" then yes: they could stop all development on this title and run the game for almost nothing, while still generating revenue from the diehards.

    If by last do mean "be popular or relevant in gaming circles", that time has passed already.

    TOR was simply the most expensive, most hyped, mediocre game made so far, and now that the newness has worn off, it continues its slide into irrelevancy.

     

  • superniceguysuperniceguy AnchorheadPosts: 2,278Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Karahandras
    Probably going to last as long as the contract.

    As long as the Disney take over does not affact it in any way.

    I wonder if Lucas would have sold to Disney if SWTOR became more successful than WOW? I doubt it.

  • cronius77cronius77 Fairfax, VAPosts: 1,347Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by superniceguy
    Originally posted by Karahandras
    Probably going to last as long as the contract.

    As long as the Disney take over does not affact it in any way.

    I wonder if Lucas wouls have sold to Disney if SWTOR became more successful than WOW? I doubt it.

    lucus selling to disney has nothing at all due to how popular swtor is or will be , this is his legacy and if you read up on entertainment sites you will see that episode 7 8 and 9 were planned way before the sell even went final. Hell he met with Mark Hammell months before even talking to disney according to hammell. Bioware and EA license the IP rights to the game just like turbine does for LOTR online and while it might be a good chunk of change , its drops in a bucket compared to what lucas industrial lighting makes for movies and design. This Disney move was something he wanted to do to create his own legacy , games are not even in his mind i bet.

  • superniceguysuperniceguy AnchorheadPosts: 2,278Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by cronius77
    Originally posted by superniceguy
    Originally posted by Karahandras
    Probably going to last as long as the contract.

    As long as the Disney take over does not affact it in any way.

    I wonder if Lucas wouls have sold to Disney if SWTOR became more successful than WOW? I doubt it.

    lucus selling to disney has nothing at all due to how popular swtor is or will be , this is his legacy and if you read up on entertainment sites you will see that episode 7 8 and 9 were planned way before the sell even went final. Hell he met with Mark Hammell months before even talking to disney according to hammell. Bioware and EA license the IP rights to the game just like turbine does for LOTR online and while it might be a good chunk of change , its drops in a bucket compared to what lucas industrial lighting makes for movies and design. This Disney move was something he wanted to do to create his own legacy , games are not even in his mind i bet.

    I actually read that he was not even going to do 7, 8 and 9 any more, and getting fed up of people bashing everything Star Wars.

    I am sure if SWTOR did better than WOW, it would have perked his interest in Star Wars again, and even had a knock on effect for Star Wars as a whole, if SWTOR ended up being the talked about MMO instead of WOW, and being mentioned in virtually every TV show. WOW has been brought up in virtually every TV show, SWTOR did in a few, but doubt it will do now.

  • mmoguy43mmoguy43 , CAPosts: 2,439Member Uncommon
    Another case of it ended before it started. It has been on the down hill and F2P hasn't brought up to the numbers they were initially expecting. It will run its course until EA recoups costs. I feel like an indy mmo with proper funding/management would have more longevity.
  • SeariasSearias Edmonton, ABPosts: 712Member Uncommon
    Wasn't Warhammer Online also a high budget mmo? The last time I checked that game is still going.

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  • tiefighter25tiefighter25 Winchester, MAPosts: 937Member
    Originally posted by Searias
    Wasn't Warhammer Online also a high budget mmo? The last time I checked that game is still going.

    Going is a relative term.

  • JonokuJonoku Cool, PAPosts: 645Member
    Mentioning SWTOR at least once=incoming bashing the game, its just common nowadays.

    Looking at: The Repopulation
    Preordering: None
    Playing: Random Games

  • JonokuJonoku Cool, PAPosts: 645Member
    Originally posted by mmoguy43
    Another case of it ended before it started. It has been on the down hill and F2P hasn't brought up to the numbers they were initially expecting. It will run its course until EA recoups costs. I feel like an indy mmo with proper funding/management would have more longevity.

    Things are back to normal= pre-F2P launch. Servers are settling down back to standard, F2P sure made a difference, its not gonna last long, Disney will just cut off lines with EAware.

    Looking at: The Repopulation
    Preordering: None
    Playing: Random Games

  • RobokappRobokapp Dublin, OHPosts: 5,205Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Muke
    Originally posted by bcbully
    Well looking at Xfire f2p is helping swtor. It's about 4k hours behind GW2. 

    weird, last time I checked Xfire only represented 2% of the gaming community.

    a random 2%, making it a representative sample.

     

    unless you can prove only a special niche uses xfire, and the sample isn't random, of course.

     

    you know how you poll 1000 students and get an idea about campus life even if there's a few milion of students in college at any time? something like that.

     

    if you sample 2% of a lake you probably have a decent idea of wha bacteria lives there.

    image

  • PsychowPsychow SF Giants Territory, CAPosts: 1,784Member
    Originally posted by bcbully
    Well looking at Xfire f2p is helping swtor. It's about 4k hours behind GW2. 

     

    Dude...are you TRYING to get this thread locked??? Never use the "X-word"...no no no no!!!

    image

  • PyukPyuk Eugene, ORPosts: 690Member Uncommon
    If by "last" you mean limp along like a dehydrated mule stuck in the middle of a desert sustaining life by licking the moisture off morning dew covered cacti, then yes. Pretty much like Warhammer Online has "lasted."

    I make spreadsheets at work - I don't want to make them for the games I play.

  • eddieg50eddieg50 Tolland, CTPosts: 1,613Member Uncommon

    This is the most talked about mmo on the internet, good or bad that creates publicity which creates new players and brings back old players. I think TOR did a good job giving players back the 4 bars, they need to get rid of the reduced xp which does not really affect progression badly BUT psychologically players think it does.   Now get working on a proper space game, keep adding story content (like they do in tsw), it is a story based game after all and they will be good to go.  This game will never attract the hard core or the sand box players, but there are enough people who care about story to keep it going.

          People who do not like the game will stay away (good) and continue to criticize on mmorpg (find an mmo you like and get a life) and the ones who do like the game will alternate between TOR and TSW

  • superniceguysuperniceguy AnchorheadPosts: 2,278Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by eddieg50

    This is the most talked about mmo on the internet, good or bad that creates publicity which creates new players and brings back old players. I think TOR did a good job giving players back the 4 bars, they need to get rid of the reduced xp which does not really affect progression badly BUT psychologically players think it does.   Now get working on a proper space game, keep adding story content (like they do in tsw), it is a story based game after all and they will be good to go.  This game will never attract the hard core or the sand box players, but there are enough people who care about story to keep it going.

          People who do not like the game will stay away (good) and continue to criticize on mmorpg (find an mmo you like and get a life) and the ones who do like the game will alternate between TOR and TSW

    Taliking instead of playing, because the game had so much going for it - Bioware, tonnes of money, plenty of time, but still not enough - Then it tanks hard, real hard, people just can not believe it.

    It has had a spurt of attention due to F2P, but even these forums are not so active any more, and I am starting to lose interest now too. There is nothing left to get SWTOR attention again, they have already done F2P, and unless they make space more multiplayer which I doubt, then this is the beginning of the end for SWTOR.

    There may be plenty of people who care about story, and I do too,  but there is not enough story to keep you hooked, as once you have completed the story then that is it. One miniscule snippet of content every 6 weeks is not going to cut it.  There are going to be many people who will end up staying away after a few months time, than before, and then nothing will be left to bring them back (again)

     

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