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Centralized auction house vs Player merchants

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  • IcewhiteIcewhite Elmhurst, ILPosts: 6,403Member
    Originally posted by ShakyMo
    Local auction houses like eve

    Is there really any reason to not combine Big AHs, little AHs, local shops, invidual hot dog carts, lemonade stands, whatever into the same system?

    Just need to be able to attach an AH interface to an object/place/NPC of any size.

    And a lot of database drive space, of course.  :shrug:

    Silly quibble, player shops have existed in these games..since the MUD days, really.

    Still goiing to run into a purist that insists on doing things with barkers and chatspam from time to time.  Oop, there's one now.

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  • OrenshiiOrenshii InYourDreams, KYPosts: 61Member

         I prefer player merchants over auction house, this is why;

     

         Ive played many games with auction houses, while they can be very nice and

    save you a great deal of time selling, it has faults. One issue with auction house

    ease is, That the markets will have a harder flux in prices. 

     

    In one game i went out and farmed 1000 of these items that sold pretty good for

    some coins to help get better armor. When I got to the auction the price for each

    peice was 200 per. Trying not to ruin the market or overcharge i place them on at

    198 per. Not a big deal really.  I  log on the next morning to check my auction and

    this is what i see.     ME - 1000 peices - 198        |     Joeblow - 200 peices - 100 per         

                                      John -  500 peices - 180        |      henry  -  3000 peices  80 per

                                      mike - 1200 peices - 175       |       Mike - 100 peices     75 per

                           Cloud9872 -  800 peices - 150        |     Anon2 - 2100 peices 60 per.

                                    anon - 500 peices - 140          |

                                     anon- 900 peices- 120           |                 

     

    (names are ofcourse made up with amounts)

     

       So I log on the next day to see the value of the item i had placed, drop more than 250%

    just over night. The problem lyes when childred and stupid people get on auctions.

    It is the same way with gold sellers. Auction house gives them more privacy, to allow

    them to sell items that have been monopolized. And despite what you think about the

    board game, Monopoly isnt good for anyone but the business who does it.

     

         While merchants/Booths cave have a spam effect on the game and cause lag

    in certain selling regions. It can also make it very hard to find a item that you need

    from running booth to booth. There is however another option, and from what ive seen

    games that do this tend to have better economies.

     

             No auction house or player merchants! Make the people interact with each other

    and make them learn viable communication skills and trading skills. Perhaps they

    might learn what supply and demand really means when they have a physical connection

    to the items they are trying to sell.  You know with auction house and merchants/booths

    The term "out of sight, Out of mind" comes to thought.

     

    O

    Destiny has cheated me
    By forcing me to decide upon
    The woman that I idolise
    Or the hands of an automaton

    Without these hands I can't complete
    The opera that was captivating her
    But if I keep them, and she marries him
    Then he probably won't want me dating her

  • dave6660dave6660 New York, NYPosts: 2,543Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by ShakyMo
    Local auction houses like eve

    This is the best system I've seen to date.

    “There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.”
    -- Herman Melville

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by greenreen

    I've played 2 games so far that had merchants in player ran towns and found them to be fun things to find. I think they rewarded exploration so they fit well in sandbox style games. Majority of the other games had a shared auction place that everyone can access from either an NPC or their user interface leaving everything open to see without exploring but also made good use of undercutting because you see all the competition. 

    Has there been a game that dabbled in a hybrid of the two?

    How did star wars galaxies work, I heard some people rave about that but the game is gone now?

    What do you think about bartering instead of everything being cash only trade?

    What is your opinion about names on auctions, is it something you search for? I played one game recently that had no names and I didn't like it, it felt cold plus I couldn't favor anyone that I liked by buying their items when they were undercut by a few pennies.

    Do you like neither and prefer to trade everything person to person?

     

     

    Bartering is very inefficient. There is a reason why the human race is using money.

    Names on auction does not matter for identical items. Why would i want to pay even a few pennies more when i can pay less for the same thing?

    I won't play a MMO without a AH. That is a must feature for me.

  • nethervoidnethervoid xanex, CAPosts: 528Member

    AH mainly help those who don't care to craft or run a virtual business. That's great for those players. Other players like to run a little virtual business. To them that's fun. A themepark has no place for a fun economic system. Only sandbox players will appreciate the non-combat fun of a virtual business thing.

    Personally I hate auction houses. Perfect economic information makes the virtual business game not fun at all. I used to love running an armor shop in UO. I got quite a client base because people knew I would have what they were looking for. Lots of fun!

    AH or no AH really comes down to themepark or sandbox.

    nethervoid - Est. '97
    [UO|EQ|SB|SWG|PS|HZ|EVE|NWN|WoW|VG|DF|SWTOR]
    13k subs YouTube Gaming channel

  • RusqueRusque Las Vegas, NVPosts: 2,229Member Uncommon
    I like hyrbid systems that contains AH and Player shops, but I don't like player shops that can be set up anywhere. There needs to be restrictions in terms of location/licensing to sell. Otherwise you end up with a hugley immersion breaking screen full of crap that lags the game and makes it impossible to find what you're looking for.
  • SlampigSlampig Chantilly, VAPosts: 2,376Member Uncommon

    I miss the days of the EC tunnel back in EQ. The players actually hawked their wares and did something called barter...

     

    Ah, when someone wanted to sell and item and they already had a price that they actually mentioned, instead of waiting for someone to make an offer only to tell them to be serious...

    That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!

  • XAPKenXAPKen Northwest, INPosts: 4,941Member Uncommon

    For me, the natural hybrid I see is Player Run AHs, where the player who runs the AH gets a cut on all sales they broker.

     

    I see them as being local only, so that localization provides a means for competition.  Also players who run AHs can set their own fee system, time limits etc.  Perhaps even specialization of what they accept and offer for sale.

     

    Inventory offered for sale sits in a special locked pane of the owner's inventory system, in case that an auction gets terminated (or a player AH folds) it reverts back to the owner with no hassle.

     

    For me this replaces a static game mechanic and provides more gameplay options for players.


    Ken Fisher - Semi retired old fart Network Administrator, now turned Amateur Game Developer.  I don't Forum PVP.  If you feel I've attacked you, it was probably by accident.  Realm Lords 2 on MMORPG.com
  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by nethervoid

    AH mainly help those who don't care to craft or run a virtual business. That's great for those players. Other players like to run a little virtual business. To them that's fun. A themepark has no place for a fun economic system. Only sandbox players will appreciate the non-combat fun of a virtual business thing.

    Personally I hate auction houses. Perfect economic information makes the virtual business game not fun at all. I used to love running an armor shop in UO. I got quite a client base because people knew I would have what they were looking for. Lots of fun!

    AH or no AH really comes down to themepark or sandbox.

    But makes trading items much more efficient. For combat centric games that trading is only to get better items, AH is the right way to go.

     

  • bunnyhopperbunnyhopper LondonPosts: 2,751Member

    A decentralized economy if done well clearly offers more opportunity for those with an interest in the economic side of the game.

     

    It really depends on what you are trying to achieve with the game. It would be pretty stupid in something like GW2, whilst it makes perfect sense in something like EVE.

    "Come and have a look at what you could have won."

  • nethervoidnethervoid xanex, CAPosts: 528Member
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by nethervoid

    AH mainly help those who don't care to craft or run a virtual business. That's great for those players. Other players like to run a little virtual business. To them that's fun. A themepark has no place for a fun economic system. Only sandbox players will appreciate the non-combat fun of a virtual business thing.

    Personally I hate auction houses. Perfect economic information makes the virtual business game not fun at all. I used to love running an armor shop in UO. I got quite a client base because people knew I would have what they were looking for. Lots of fun!

    AH or no AH really comes down to themepark or sandbox.

    But makes trading items much more efficient. For combat centric games that trading is only to get better items, AH is the right way to go.

     

    I agree in themeparks AH is the best. The only problem is when they try to add crafting and stuff. It's pretty boring. lol

    nethervoid - Est. '97
    [UO|EQ|SB|SWG|PS|HZ|EVE|NWN|WoW|VG|DF|SWTOR]
    13k subs YouTube Gaming channel

  • madazzmadazz A town, ONPosts: 1,564Member Uncommon

    I loved UO's approach. I remember running around just for the sake of exploring. I'd come across so many vendors in those travels. I remember one house in the middle of a dense jungle/forest (so dense I couldn't even run without hitting something), had to fight to get to it too, only to find some of the greatest prices on poisoned katanas I had ever seen! Meanwhile you be near one of the cities and the price would be nearly 2x. So not only was I travelling, but I felt like I was bargain hunting too lol. I personally enjoyed it.

    I also liked Eve's approach to selling stuff as well.

    To me, I personally prefer the auction house to just fit with the overall world. Makes no sense to me to be in a medieval type world where a single auction house is instantly connected to everything. Again, back to UO, the auctions held were only accessible by those who were actually there.

    I used UO as an example, but I am open to other similar ideas in a game that I would enjoy. Again, for me its all about it fitting into the world and encouraging interaction and discovery, not hindering interaction with other players because the auction house is a faceless entity like in WoW.

  • maplestonemaplestone Ottawa, ONPosts: 3,099Member
    Originally posted by madazz

    To me, I personally prefer the auction house to just fit with the overall world. Makes no sense to me to be in a medieval type world where a single auction house is instantly connected to everything. Again, back to UO, the auctions held were only accessible by those who were actually there.

    Except that UO's economy eventually collapsed into a tight bubble around Luna when high-end merchants running bots that quietly went around assembling an auction-house-like database of what everyone else was selling for use within their little subculture.

    You can make the game fit a medieval atmosphere, but it's harder to get players to ignore all the technology at their disposal.  Markets reward efficiency and information, not fun, not atmosphere.  The more atmosphere you add to an open market, the more skewed the economy will become in favour of those who ignore asthetics and just powergame the raw data.

    (all that said, I too enjoyed the quirky little player shops of UO; although I was never a dedicated enough shopkeeper to really build up a customer base of my own)

  • SovrathSovrath Boston Area, MAPosts: 18,462Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Icewhite
    Originally posted by ShakyMo
    Local auction houses like eve

    Is there really any reason to not combine Big AHs, little AHs, local shops, invidual hot dog carts, lemonade stands, whatever into the same system?

    Just need to be able to attach an AH interface to an object/place/NPC of any size.

    And a lot of database drive space, of course.  :shrug:

    Silly quibble, player shops have existed in these games..since the MUD days, really.

    Still goiing to run into a purist that insists on doing things with barkers and chatspam from time to time.  Oop, there's one now.

    Well, I suppose you can count me as one of those purists.

    What goes on with individual stops, and I imagine separate Auction Houses, is a lot different than wha tgoes on with one large Auction House.

    There's quite a lot of barter and trade that goes on with individual buyers/seller;, players try to buy up resources, they miss a few things, others are able to make decent deals "while supplies last" as such and such a player is holding onto certain items to drive up their costs.

    It's a completely different system with completely different goals. It can be very exciting, especially with the "buy" shops that players set up by ceratin areas to sell the excess mats that players in the area gather.

    erm, so yeah, I'm one of those.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by madazz

    To me, I personally prefer the auction house to just fit with the overall world. Makes no sense to me to be in a medieval type world where a single auction house is instantly connected to everything. Again, back to UO, the auctions held were only accessible by those who were actually there.

    I used UO as an example, but I am open to other similar ideas in a game that I would enjoy. Again, for me its all about it fitting into the world and encouraging interaction and discovery, not hindering interaction with other players because the auction house is a faceless entity like in WoW.

    What medieval type world? Most MMOs are FANTASY world. If there are magic portal that zap me across the entire world, i am sure there is magic that will run a AH.

     

  • OzmodanOzmodan Hilliard, OHPosts: 7,193Member Uncommon
    The AH is a very bad idea introduced by Blizzard.  One of their worst decisions ever.  Eve's local markets are not bad though, you have to decide whether a longer travel time is worth the lower price.
  • ArglebargleArglebargle Austin, TXPosts: 1,419Member Uncommon

    Auction Houses tend to make games more fun for one type of player, and less fun for another.   Know your target audience, and prepare accordingly.

     

     

    If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.

  • Caliburn101Caliburn101 LondonPosts: 636Member
    Originally posted by maplestone
    Originally posted by Caliburn101

    What the MMO genre needs is a player driven economy which is nevertheless forced to deal with basic supply and demand.

    I don't want a realistic economy in my games - the real economy is what I'm trying to escape from when I load up a game.  I want something that's actually fun.

    Thanks for not bothering to read past the first line of my post and then commenting on it.

    A well run economic model runs in the background, provides opportunity for conflict and solves a number of persistent problems with crafting etc.

    I.e. - adding to the fun - not detracting from it.

    Plus of course some people like crafting, trading etc. and they should be catered for much better.

  • OnomasOnomas Rock Hill, SCPosts: 1,128Member Uncommon
    Auction houses do nothing but make the players ignore the other 90% of a town or city ;) They mass on to one area to do all their trading instead of allowing player merchants set up in homes or other areas (like SWG) which helped move people around and look at things. Auction houses with 100's of people standing in the same area make lag and is just a bad trading system in general.
  • QuirhidQuirhid TamperePosts: 5,969Member Common
    Originally posted by Onomas
    Auction houses do nothing but make the players ignore the other 90% of a town or city ;) They mass on to one area to do all their trading instead of allowing player merchants set up in homes or other areas (like SWG) which helped move people around and look at things. Auction houses with 100's of people standing in the same area make lag and is just a bad trading system in general.

    No its not. If players can choose which one they use, and they choose AH, then it is better. And if you want to avoid congestion, you can have the AH available at all times only players need to pick up the items at varying locations (Eve, GW2...).

    I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  • OlgarkOlgark BostonPosts: 320Member Uncommon

    I realy liked SWG system with player run vendors and a central bizzar. You could look at the bizzar and see who and where they was selling waypoint the location and travel there. You also had the auction house at the bizzar as well if people wanted a quick sale or if they were new players that could not afford a house to place a vendor at.

     

    Eve Online has a solid market place and fits in well with the game. Each station is independant but you can buy or sell from any where within the region if you have the skills.

    Ultima Online only had player vendors and I loved the exploration and danager value of this as you would be out in the wilderness buying new equipment only to find yourself surrounded by PK'ers and then have to fight a way clear.

    As for Auction Houses like WoW I hate them, I would prefer to sit in the Commons in EQ than search through the AH's of MMO's.

    The sooner we can get rid of AH's in games the better.

    image

  • DisdenaDisdena Troy, NYPosts: 1,093Member
    Originally posted by Arglebargle

    Auction Houses tend to make games more fun for one type of player, and less fun for another.   Know your target audience, and prepare accordingly.

    Quoted for truth.

    image
  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by Onomas
    Auction houses do nothing but make the players ignore the other 90% of a town or city ;) They mass on to one area to do all their trading instead of allowing player merchants set up in homes or other areas (like SWG) which helped move people around and look at things. Auction houses with 100's of people standing in the same area make lag and is just a bad trading system in general.

    You can access the WOW AH on the web or using your phone. There is no reason to stand in the same area. Plus, it seldom lags for me.

    I don't really see a huge gameplay value to run around a city to do something you can do at one place. And the city is fun to look at .. for may be 5 min ... it does not add anything for me, if i have to run around it day in and day out.

  • HelleriHelleri Felton, CAPosts: 927Member Uncommon
    lol...that made me realize that after a while all a city is to me is an area I cut through to get to NPC's.

    image

  • greenreengreenreen Punchoo, AKPosts: 2,101Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Arglebargle

    Auction Houses tend to make games more fun for one type of player, and less fun for another.   Know your target audience, and prepare accordingly.

     

     

    But their target audience is all of us lol

    It looks like people are making the favorable comments about things that were hybrid so that they either weren't forced to wander and compare or had it all in one place.

    It does make sense since none of us can agree with what we like doing at end game anyway.

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